The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[cramx3]

Yeah, this news is not what anyone besides the Europeans want to hear and even then, maybe they'd just rather a new tour.

[WildRanger]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

[nobloodyname]

Yeah, this news is not what anyone besides the Europeans want to hear and even then, maybe they'd just rather a new tour.

Well, as a European I think it's utterly absurd they're still planning to tour Legacy of the Beast. Just release the new bloody album, FFS.

[MirrorMask]

Anyone more versed in the legal side of things can deduce if they might be contractually tied to this tour? can there be such a thing in the contract that rather than just saying "Iron Maiden will perform at this venue in this date" specifies "Iron Maiden will perform their Legacy of the Beast tour at this venue in this date"? could it be that a specific tour can cost more to the promoters and so they would complain as in "I paid you 1 million euros to have this greatest hits tour, your new album tour with a lesser production is worth just 800K"?

'cause the cases are two, they are legally contracted to perform that specific kind of show with that stage show and with that promotional label, or they're just stubborn in doing a third year touring behind a greatest hits tour when they have an album ready since two years.

[cramx3]

I don't know but they've changed venues, added shows, removed shows and changed dates so not sure if the contracts would even be that specific.

My guess, they sold tickets and have money tied to finishing the tour and don't want to lose it.  It sucks.  The band is only getting older, the tour happened in most places they typically tour already.  There's only so many more opportunities for the band.  If the new album rumors are true, it makes little sense to not just move on other than money and even then... it seems like they have enough to take a hit and to proceed onto their future plans instead of living in the past.

Now, I guess the only exception would be if they say they will film one of these shows.  A proper video of that tour is really missed because it might have been their best stage show ever.  Although years later, who knows if the band is going to be able to perform at the same level?

[pg1067]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

Ummm...no.  This voting is not for induction into the RRHOF.  Rather, it's for a "fans' ballot."  Maiden may make it onto the "fans' ballot," but that's only one of many ballots that will be tallied for the induction vote.  In other words, just because Maiden is on the "fans' ballot" doesn't mean they'll be inducted.

[cramx3]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

Ummm...no.  This voting is not for induction into the RRHOF.  Rather, it's for a "fans' ballot."  Maiden may make it onto the "fans' ballot," but that's only one of many ballots that will be tallied for the induction vote.  In other words, just because Maiden is on the "fans' ballot" doesn't mean they'll be inducted.

I wasn't 100% sure how this worked, but I was thinking along what you said.  I don't think that vote is any sort of guarantee or even gives any real hope they will get in.  Just seems they are likely to make it to the actual round of voting.  I've got no idea how the actual voters view IM.

[pg1067]

Anyone more versed in the legal side of things can deduce if they might be contractually tied to this tour? can there be such a thing in the contract that rather than just saying "Iron Maiden will perform at this venue in this date" specifies "Iron Maiden will perform their Legacy of the Beast tour at this venue in this date"? could it be that a specific tour can cost more to the promoters and so they would complain as in "I paid you 1 million euros to have this greatest hits tour, your new album tour with a lesser production is worth just 800K"?

'cause the cases are two, they are legally contracted to perform that specific kind of show with that stage show and with that promotional label, or they're just stubborn in doing a third year touring behind a greatest hits tour when they have an album ready since two years.

It's certainly possible for a contract to specify that an artist will perform a particular show.  The problem that I see with a claim that some other show is worth less money is that the promoters might have difficulty proving damages.  If Maiden announced that it wasn't going to do the LOTB show, promoters wouldn't necessarily have to give refunds, and I don't think most fans would ask for refunds (particularly for the festival dates).  My best guess is that, even if the contracts with the promoters for these shows expressly refer to LOTB, the band could change that if they want.  Of course, these contracts would be governed by EU law, and I have no idea if/how that law might be different than U.S. contract law.

[pg1067]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

Ummm...no.  This voting is not for induction into the RRHOF.  Rather, it's for a "fans' ballot."  Maiden may make it onto the "fans' ballot," but that's only one of many ballots that will be tallied for the induction vote.  In other words, just because Maiden is on the "fans' ballot" doesn't mean they'll be inducted.

I wasn't 100% sure how this worked, but I was thinking along what you said.  I don't think that vote is any sort of guarantee or even gives any real hope they will get in.  Just seems they are likely to make it to the actual round of voting.  I've got no idea how the actual voters view IM.

It's explained at the link:  "The top five artists, as selected by the public, will comprise a 'fans’ ballot' that will be tallied along with the other ballots to choose the 2021 inductees."

I don't know how many folks vote, but one article I read says it's about 600.  Let's assume it's 599, so adding this "fans' ballot" makes 600 total ballots.  Let's further assume that an artist needs to be on at least 75% of the ballots to be inducted.  The five artists on the "fans' ballot" have one of the 450 votes needed for induction, so they need to appear on 449 of the 599 individual ballots to be inducted.  The artists who aren't on the "fans' ballot" need to be on 450 of the 599 individual ballots.  In other words, being on the "fans' ballot" gives an artist a 0.00041% better chance at induction.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't really think it's a contract issue, and more of a, we spent money on this tour and don't want to lose money, when we could be making profits. Both a band and label choice. The band could be contractually obligated by the label to finish the tour before making a new album, because the label doesn't want to lose money. The Touring Agents, The Booking Agents, Promoters, all do not what to lose out on the money this tour brings.

This is one of Maidens biggest tours in terms of production value as well. All those props are not cheap.

As much as I want a new album too. It logistically and financially makes sense to not cancel the tour. Especially the European tours.

There's a lot more that goes on in regards to touring.

[El Barto]

I think we may need to give consideration to another possibility. Nicko will have turned 69 at the start of the tour next year. I don't think we can assume there will be more. My hunch is that they're probably already recorded a new album by now, no reason for them not to have, but if we're closing on the end of their touring days the LoB show is a pretty good way to go out.

[cramx3]

I think we may need to give consideration to another possibility. Nicko will have turned 69 at the start of the tour next year. I don't think we can assume there will be more. My hunch is that they're probably already recorded a new album by now, no reason for them not to have, but if we're closing on the end of their touring days the LoB show is a pretty good way to go out.

Definitely possible, but Adrian did recently say that there's lots of good news coming from the IM camp in the future.  A lot can change in a year though. It would kind of suck though if they released an album and never were able to tour for it due to age/health.  I'd rather see them go out with the new album/tour than another leg of the same tour they already released a live album from. 

[kirksnosehair]

It would be cool if I could see them live in 2021 because it would be 40 years after my first time seeing them at the end of 1981     I have no idea if they'll come back through the US this year, though.  But if they come anywhere near Boston I am there.

[Stadler]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

I'll bet you a t-shirt they don't (and Maiden is a top five band for me; I LOVE them.)   The people voting aren't interested in the popular vote.  Rage Against The Machine is almost a gimme, as far as I'm concerned, and one of LL Cool J and Jay-Z as well.

[pg1067]

Maiden will definitely make it:

http://vote.rockhall.com/results/

I'll bet you a t-shirt they don't (and Maiden is a top five band for me; I LOVE them.)   The people voting aren't interested in the popular vote.  Rage Against The Machine is almost a gimme, as far as I'm concerned, and one of LL Cool J and Jay-Z as well.

I don't know about the last part, but I think it says a lot that Maiden have over 100,000 fewer vote than the freakin' Go-Go's and over 1.2 million fewer votes that Fela Kuti (fuckin' who???!).

[wolfking]

I'm not even clicking on that link and voting as I know it will be a waste of time.

[Stadler]

I've been planning a trip to Slovakia/Poland (a heritage/ancestry trip) that has been postponed for COVID.  I'm now looking at re-secheduling that for June of 2022. 

How friggin' cool to see Maiden at a stadium in (or near) the former Eastern bloc? 

[cfmoran13]

Update on the RaRHoF fan vote...

As of earlier today, Tina Turner received 504,711 votes; Fela Kuti 480,529; THE Go-Go's 369,049, Iron Maiden 354,866 and Foo Fighters 341,506.

I know the fan vote doesn't really amount to a whole lot.  And, the Hall itself is pretty much bullshit.  But, who the hell are these people who have voted for Fela Kuti?!?  I'm not taking anything away from the artist.  I looked him up when the nominations were made.  I know he's considered the master of Afrobeat.  Tina Turner is a legend who's already in the HoF with Ike.  I don't have a problem with her, her vote total and I won't have a problem when she gets voted in again.  But, Fela Kuti has about 25K less votes than her and almost 130,000 more votes than Maiden!  If you were to poll 130,000 random people, how many of them would even know who Fela Kuti was?!?  I mean, he's been dead for almost 25 years.  If you asked those same 130,000 random people, how many of them do you think would have at least heard of Iron Maiden? 

[pg1067]

Update on the RaRHoF fan vote...

As of earlier today, Tina Turner received 504,711 votes; Fela Kuti 480,529; THE Go-Go's 369,049, Iron Maiden 354,866 and Foo Fighters 341,506.

I know the fan vote doesn't really amount to a whole lot.  And, the Hall itself is pretty much bullshit.  But, who the hell are these people who have voted for Fela Kuti?!?  I'm not taking anything away from the artist.  I looked him up when the nominations were made.  I know he's considered the master of Afrobeat.  Tina Turner is a legend who's already in the HoF with Ike.  I don't have a problem with her, her vote total and I won't have a problem when she gets voted in again.  But, Fela Kuti has about 25K less votes than her and almost 130,000 more votes than Maiden!  If you were to poll 130,000 random people, how many of them would even know who Fela Kuti was?!?  I mean, he's been dead for almost 25 years.  If you asked those same 130,000 random people, how many of them do you think would have at least heard of Iron Maiden?

If you allow yourself to ponder stuff like this too long, you'll go insane.  I'd never heard of the dude before this vote, but the one thing I believe I learned from looking him up is that he had nothing at all to do with "rock & roll" or anything that even remotely resembles it.  Maybe this is the way that his fan base is seeking to make more people aware of him.  By contrast, a wide segment of Maiden fans don't care about the RRHOF so aren't bothering to vote.  In other words, beats me.

[Stadler]

I do ponder this, because I find it fascinating from a sociological/psychological perspective.   The RnRHoF is a microcosm of American life in 2021.  No, really, it is.    Some vocal subset of the larger population decrees that something is worthy (or beneficial, or just, or moral, if you will) and the remainder react; the remainder who agree latch onto the existence as proof of their being "right" (or smart, or moral) and those that disagree or who are left on the outside dismiss the integrity of the premise to start with, often, though not always, with a dismissiveness to the people involved or benefitting from the premise.

The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame is about the "us" and the "them", and the "us", the insiders, lord their superiority over the "them".

Dave Marsh, insider, famously decrees that "Kiss will get in over my dead body" - implying that no facts, no information will trump his opinion. And they don't, until usurpers get in, new blood with a different viewpoint, and they are elected perfunctorily and only the core original members.   Seymour Stein, former head of Sire Records, pimps his artist roster, filling the hall with lesser acts like The Pretenders, Talking Heads, The Ramones and The Cure.  The precursor of the "with us or against us" mentality, furthered by Jann Wenner.  Why else is the liberal West Coast country-rock scene over-represented?  Why else is Bob Seger, who is at best a John Mellencamp/Bruce Springsteen knock-off, in and Alice Cooper - another Detroit blue-collar artist with right-wing associations and who single-handedly started an entire GENRE, late to the party?   Why else is the 80's "Amnesty International" squad of The Police, Dire Straits, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel, REM, and U2 all in but Phil Collins - who outsold all of them BOTH solo and with Genesis, but ran into political backlash in the 90's - not?  Why is the E-Street Band in AS A SEPARATE ARTIST, despite having never put out a stand alone album, and every member of the Grateful Dead is in, including two members that never appeared on a studio record proper (Constantin and Hunter), and yet Kiss, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple have all had to exclude key, important band members at the unilateral whim of the Hall?   Patty Smith, nuff said? 

[cfmoran13]

The crazy thing is, even knowing how silly the whole "Rock And Roll" Hall Of Fame is, every year, I still manage to get pissed about it.  Last year, Whitney Houston and Notorious BIG both get in and Pat Benatar and Judas Priest are left at the door.  Pat Benatar has a body of work that any artist would kill for.  Looking at her Wiki, she has 4 Grammy awards, 2 multi-platinum albums, 5 platinum albums and 15 Top 40 singles.  She was first nominated 16 years after being eligible.  The only real knock against her is that she didn't write the majority of her material.  It was mostly her husband/guitarist.  But, Whitney only co-wrote 5 songs of her entire catalog.  So, WTF?!?

And, every few years, you get that inductee that really gets you speechless.  Nina Simone.  Once again, I'm not saying she's not worthy of praise or accolades.  To be honest, I've never heard her music.  Most people who know her name probably know it from the 2 movies that came out a few years before she was inducted.  And...  NOT ROCK AND ROLL!  Fela Kuti will be this year's Nina Simone.

It's just another establishment run by the "too cool for school" kids.  And, more than anything, it's a business to get people to buy tix to their yearly concert (probably not this year, again) and their museum.  Maiden fans already go to the museum.  But, without an induction or nomination, how many Whitney Houston, Biggie or Fela Kuti fans are making a trip to Cleveland to visit the museum?!?

[kirksnosehair]

I haven't cared or paid attention to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame pretty much ever.  It's just not important to me.  I like what I like and I don't like what I don't like.  Whether or not some group of elitist assholes likes them enough to include _____________________ (whoever) in their little clique means less to me than the length of my toenails.

[TAC]

... means less to me than the length of my toenails.

I was going to make a joke and link a picture of someone with really long toenails, but after doing an image search, I was fucking too grossed out to go through with it.

[Podaar]

 

[pg1067]

For me, the horse has long ago left the barn on the whole "rock and roll" thing.  Whitney Houston?  The Notorious B.I.G. (whatever that is)?  Nina Simone?  Tupac Shakur?  Joan Baez?  It's just silly.  Those are not rock artists.  It'd be like inducting cricket and badminton players into the Baseball HOF.  Change the name to at least make it honest.  You can have the debates about who's in but isn't worthy and who isn't in and should be.  That happens with any HOF.  But mixing rap, jazz and folk artists just muddies the water too much.  I'll still keep an eye on it, but I just don't care enough anymore to put effort into it.

[Anguyen92]

It's just all one big marketing ploy to get as much eyeballs and attention on it since those committees know how to rile up the metal community.  Happens with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and with the Grammys and people keep falling for it every time despite the same community saying that those Grammys and Hall of Fame don't matter.  They do care about it somewhat if they get mad about it every time.

[kirksnosehair]

... means less to me than the length of my toenails.

I was going to make a joke and link a picture of someone with really long toenails, but after doing an image search, I was fucking too grossed out to go through with it.

  Yeah, man, toejam is nasty shit, yo 

[Stadler]

... means less to me than the length of my toenails.

I was going to make a joke and link a picture of someone with really long toenails, but after doing an image search, I was fucking too grossed out to go through with it.

So there's a show call "My Feet Are Killing Me", and the two doctors - Dr. Brad and Dr. Ebonie - are both model hot, but the feet they treat are enough to make you gag.   

[pg1067]

... means less to me than the length of my toenails.

I was going to make a joke and link a picture of someone with really long toenails, but after doing an image search, I was fucking too grossed out to go through with it.

So there's a show call "My Feet Are Killing Me", and the two doctors - Dr. Brad and Dr. Ebonie - are both model hot, but the feet they treat are enough to make you gag.   

Isn't that a quote from Anthrax's "I'm the Man"?

[ProfessorPeart]

... means less to me than the length of my toenails.

I was going to make a joke and link a picture of someone with really long toenails, but after doing an image search, I was fucking too grossed out to go through with it.

So there's a show call "My Feet Are Killing Me", and the two doctors - Dr. Brad and Dr. Ebonie - are both model hot, but the feet they treat are enough to make you gag.   

Isn't that a quote from Anthrax's "I'm the Man"?

The only thing harder's the smell of my feet

I wasn't even aware of who was nominated until I saw this thread. How did a type of cheese get nominated. Fela Kuti?

[wolfking]

Fela Kuti?  Is that a type of cheese?

[ProfessorPeart]

Fela Kuti?  Is that a type of cheese?

I don't know, but it sure sounds like some sort of variety.

[Anguyen92]

Here's what is said on Wiki.

Fela Anikulapo Kuti (born Olufela Olusegun Oludotun Ransome-Kuti; 15 October 1938 – 2 August 1997) was a Nigerian multi-instrumentalist, bandleader, composer, political activist, and Pan-Africanist. He is regarded as the pioneer of Afrobeat, an African music genre that combines traditional Yoruba and Afro-Cuban music with funk and jazz.[1] At the height of his popularity, he was referred to as one of Africa's most "challenging and charismatic music performers".[2] AllMusic described him as a "musical and sociopolitical voice" of international significance.[3]

Apparently, this guy married 27 wives in one day as a way to give them a home?

[TAC]

Then maybe he belongs in the Marriage HOF.

[wolfking]

Here's what is said on Wiki.

Fela Anikulapo Kuti (born Olufela Olusegun Oludotun Ransome-Kuti; 15 October 1938 – 2 August 1997) was a Nigerian multi-instrumentalist, bandleader, composer, political activist, and Pan-Africanist. He is regarded as the pioneer of Afrobeat, an African music genre that combines traditional Yoruba and Afro-Cuban music with funk and jazz.[1] At the height of his popularity, he was referred to as one of Africa's most "challenging and charismatic music performers".[2] AllMusic described him as a "musical and sociopolitical voice" of international significance.[3]

Apparently, this guy married 27 wives in one day as a way to give them a home?

   Yeah right.