The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Outcrier]

Never liked Number and Piece that much. Much prefer the albums that came later, with the amazing run of Powerslave/Somewhere/Seventh Son.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

But I still think that it gets more praise than the quality of the songs on it merits, and isn't that what overrated means?

That's kind of what I was getting at. Number of the Beast is amazing, but a lot of times I see it ranked as the best metal album of all-time, when I don't even think it's Maiden's best!

[Stadler]

Here's the thing, though:  "My favorite" and "Greatest Metal Record of All Time" are not the same thing.   I personally like Powerslave and Piece of Mind better, and I might even say I would rather, now, listen to Somewhere In Time and Seventh Son.  But I was there when TNOTB came out, and it really was game changing. 

But I can tell you that after hearing Kiss and Aerosmith and Van Halen and Priest (British Steel and Point of Entry) and Def Leppard (On Through the Night and High & Dry) and Sabbath (Mob Rules) then hearing: "Woe to you, oh earth and sea..." was a fucking revelation (no pun intended) and even though Halford had the scream down (Victim of Changes was the big one at that point, because "Screaming..." hadn't come out yet) there was nothing I had heard yet that was even close to the scream in "TNOTB" song.   Plus the videos...  that was a really big step forward.

I'm a big one for "things are built on what came before", and MOP and SFV and Powerslave and Piece of Mind all had the Beast before it.  What did the Beast have before IT?

[Outcrier]

I'm a big one for "things are built on what came before", and MOP and SFV and Powerslave and Piece of Mind all had the Beast before it.  What did the Beast have before IT?

Any 70's Black Sabbath album? There was a handful of great metal albums before Beast.

[PowerSlave]

I'm a big one for "things are built on what came before", and MOP and SFV and Powerslave and Piece of Mind all had the Beast before it.  What did the Beast have before IT?

Any 70's Black Sabbath album? There was a handful of great metal albums before Beast.

Sabbath, Rainbow (Dio era), Judas Priest all immediately come to mind at different points prior to this album. And if you want to be picky, Sabbath could be counted twice because there's no denying that they reinvented themselves with RJD. They all left a distinctive mark on the genre as well as many other bands that aren't quite as famous (Scorpions, UFO ect. ect...). Maiden was the next level after these bands. They were dependent upon those that came before them, of course. Who isn't?

The argument that I would make for the importance of this album is that it was the "blue-print" for the albums that followed it. The next 3 albums had the big epic at the close of the album, and there are other similarities. My favorite IM album is PS, but I find it fairly obvious that the album structure is largely dependent on this album. The band's musical direction for the better part of the rest of the decade was also cemented with this album. Yes, Maiden always sounds like Maiden, but there's little doubt that this was the album that mostly established what they would set out to do for many years after.

No knocking on the debut or Killers, I think that it's easy to say that they were quite a bit different than what would come afterward.

[Stadler]

I'm a big one for "things are built on what came before", and MOP and SFV and Powerslave and Piece of Mind all had the Beast before it.  What did the Beast have before IT?

Any 70's Black Sabbath album? There was a handful of great metal albums before Beast.

Sabbath, Rainbow (Dio era), Judas Priest all immediately come to mind at different points prior to this album. And if you want to be picky, Sabbath could be counted twice because there's no denying that they reinvented themselves with RJD. They all left a distinctive mark on the genre as well as many other bands that aren't quite as famous (Scorpions, UFO ect. ect...). Maiden was the next level after these bands. They were dependent upon those that came before them, of course. Who isn't?

The argument that I would make for the importance of this album is that it was the "blue-print" for the albums that followed it. The next 3 albums had the big epic at the close of the album, and there are other similarities. My favorite IM album is PS, but I find it fairly obvious that the album structure is largely dependent on this album. The band's musical direction for the better part of the rest of the decade was also cemented with this album. Yes, Maiden always sounds like Maiden, but there's little doubt that this was the album that mostly established what they would set out to do for many years after.

No knocking on the debut or Killers, I think that it's easy to say that they were quite a bit different than what would come afterward.

I hear what you're saying to a point; I'm not suggesting that TNOTB is the FIRST metal album ever, or the first heavy metal album ever.  But it was one of - and I'm sort of saying the first - that went beyond the typical "blues and/or classical amalgamation".   Sabbath is (or rather, was in the early 70's) a blues band turned WAY up.   Maiden has very little blues in there, except as distilled through Jethro Tull.

I think the one point that I would concede, though, is I've long said that Sabbath from SBS through NSD could be considered as prog as Rush or any other "metal" (I know Rush isn't metal, bear with me as I struggle for labels) band, so perhaps the one real precursor is, say, Sabotage. 

But when you account for the intervening punk movement, and the video-centric way that British music was going (hard to imagine that Duran Duran and Black Sabbath come from the same roots in Birmingham, innit?) TNOTB was very clearly a line in the sand.

[Cyclopssss]

Agreed. Up untill then, with Di´Anno, they were always a punkish hardrock band. With Bruce they went full on hardrock/heavy metal.   

[El Barto]

The set lists are looking great, can't wait to see them for the first time in a few months Really hoping they are going to play Blood Brothers.

They won't be changing their setlist at this point. Any changes would have been after the first or second night.


I'm going to have to side with overrated on TNotB. To me it was Piece of Mind that was the real game changer. That's where they added a very unique "Maiden" sound. Consider Flight of Icarus. There's nothing comparable to that on TNotB, but you listen to it and you immediately know that it's the classic Maiden that we all love. It was a shift in sound, and it's one that laid the groundwork far more than Number, IMO.

[Stadler]

Not to contradict my own argument, but that drum fill to start the album is enough of an indicator.   I can still remember thinking, "WTF was THAT??"

[TAC]

Great topic going on here and great to read the opinions of the fogey Maiden veterans.

Bart, you do have a point as far as the beginning of Maiden's "sound". You are correct there. Nicko's impact was huge and was a big change.

(not directing the following at Bart)..

But there is no way that I can subscribe to calling TNOTB overrated. 6 of the 8 tracks are standout Maiden classics. CLASSICS! It's one of those albums where a band goes "next level". What POM did, was fine tune a style for years to come. Now if you are saying that TNOTB is an outlier in terms of style and feel, I can follow that.

It's fine for people to like certain albums over others, so no issue with anyone taking SSOASS or POM over TNOTB, but none of those albums ever happen without TNOTB. That album changed the game for the band and the genre. It was better than anything else that came out of the NWOBHM. Saxon couldn't do that. Def Leppard couldn't do that. In fact, Def Leppard scrapped the whole thing because they knew they couldn't compete. Yes, I know they did become quite popular on their own, but they had to abandon the NWOBHM movement.

[Outcrier]

Yeah, TNOTB was a game changer for Maiden, but they already had one of the greatest metal albums ever on the debut and, in a much lesser extent but still a classic, Killers.

[El Barto]

so no issue with anyone taking SSOASS or POM over TNOTB,

Or Powerlsave, or Killers, or X-Factor, or AMoLaD. 

Part of it certainly is that the songs just don't work as well for me as what came before or after, but I also really don't see it as a huge step forward, particularly from Killers. If people want to say that Number was an evolutionary step forward, I don't really see it but I won't argue. However, I see no correlation between Number and POM. That was more of a reinvention than an evolving.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Anyone going to the MSG show on the 30th? We'll be there.

[Kwyjibo]

This is all highly subjective, but for me the greatest change was from Killers To Number Of The Beast. TNOTB is the blueprint for what Maiden would do for the next 34 years and ongoing. Sure there were and are changes in the following records but the foundation of the classic Maiden sound as we know it was laid with Number.

That's not to say that it's the best record but, for me, it's the most important and influential record.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Somehow, I never got around to Seventh Son of a Seventh Son until recently. My God. What an album.

[Zydar]

Yeah, it's my favourite Maiden album ever.

[home]

Mine too Just all the things I love about Iron Maiden in a compact concept album 

[Polarbear]

Yeah, it's my favourite Maiden album ever.

Yeah, no contest! Seventh son is easily my favorite also!

They have so many quality albums under their belt, but Seventh son still rises above the rest!

It was also the first album i ever bought with my own money, so SSoaSS holds a lot of memories for me.

[kirksnosehair]

Seventh Son was my favorite for a long time as well.  I never thought they'd top it.  Then they released "A Matter of Life and Death" 

[TAC]

All this 7th Son talk inspired me to pull these up again. Have posted these many times, but in case some of the noobs haven't seen them:

July 17, 1988
Worcester Centrum

[SebastianPratesi]

Wow, cool pictures. A couple of questions:

1. What was the policy back in the '80s regarding cameras/recordings on shows?

2. Those were right before Adrian left and Janick joined, right? Or that was 1989?

[jjrock88]

Tim is a professional heavy metal photographer!

[SebastianPratesi]

Oh, alright then! Didn't know that.

Still: were other people allowed to bring their cameras inside venues?

[Zydar]

Happy 60th birthday, Steve!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

ED FORCE ONE BADLY DAMAGED ON THE GROUND IN COMODORO ARTURO MERINO BENITEZ (SANTIAGO, CHILE) AIRPORT
CONCERTS IN ARGENTINA TOMORROW AND TUESDAY EXPECTED TO GO AHEAD AS PLANNED
Ed Force One was this morning tethered to a tow truck to be taken for refuelling prior to flying over the Andes to Cordoba for the next show. On moving the steering pin that is part of the mechanism that connects the ground tug to the aircraft seemingly fell out. On making a turn the aircraft had no steering and collided with the ground tug badly damaging the undercarriage, two of the aircrafts engines and injuring two ground tug operators, both of whom have been taken to hospital. We hope of course that they make a full and speedy recovery and we will be closely monitoring their progress. The flight engineers are on site and evaluating the damage, but their initial report is that the engines have suffered large damage and will require an extended period of maintenance and possibly two new engines.

https://www.facebook.com/ironmaiden/posts/10153340571972051

[Enigmachine]

Sucks for the people who are injured, wouldn't want to get hurt by that thing.

Does the perspective of those photos seem odd to anyone else? The 1st picture makes the engine look about 20 metres high while the other makes it look about 2.

[TAC]

Tim is a professional heavy metal photographer!

 

Oh, alright then! Didn't know that.

Still: were other people allowed to bring their cameras inside venues?

Don't believe JJ!

When I was a kid (I was 19 at the Maiden show), I smuggled a camera in my pants. For this show I went solo. I bought a 17th row floor ticket on Adrian's side. I managed to get up to the front as the show went on. I also got Adrian's pick at this show.

As far as policy, they were not allowed, but I never had a problem. You had to gauge what was going on. I tried to see if there were pictures being taken around me. If I saw someone get busted (they'd typically take/destroy your film), I'd be careful and wait till the end to get a good shot.

Looking back, I am so glad I have the pics. Such great souvenirs.

[El Barto]

Tim is a professional heavy metal photographer!

 

Oh, alright then! Didn't know that.

Still: were other people allowed to bring their cameras inside venues?

Don't believe JJ!

When I was a kid (I was 19 at the Maiden show), I smuggled a camera in my pants. For this show I went solo. I bought a 17th row floor ticket on Adrian's side. I managed to get up to the front as the show went on. I also got Adrian's pick at this show.

As far as policy, they were not allowed, but I never had a problem. You had to gauge what was going on. I tried to see if there were pictures being taken around me. If I saw someone get busted (they'd typically take/destroy your film), I'd be careful and wait till the end to get a good shot.

Looking back, I am so glad I have the pics. Such great souvenirs.

Yup. You tried to keep low key about it, but you were never too, too worried. This was before metal detectors were commonplace, so it was pretty easy to sneak in a small pocket Kodak (I believe Tim used the disk version). The hard part was scaring up $15 to get the pictures developed. When I was a wee lad Dio actually posed for a picture for me between songs. It would have been totally kick ass had I not been so caught off guard that I neglected to turn the telephoto off, which gave me a picture of one, giant-ass bloodshot eye.

And that's twice now that Maiden have had their pretty new plane wiped out. At some point people are going to stop leasing them aircraft.

[jjrock88]

Hopefully everyone ends up being ok from that damaged plane

[Logain Ablar]

Great pics TAC. Funny how Steve looks pretty much exactly the same, all these years later, even down to the expression on his face!

[SebastianPratesi]

Thanks for the anecdotes, TAC and El Barto (cool avatar by the way!).

So, Maiden will be in Argentina for the next few days. There is one TV show (LaViola) and one on-line radio (Vorterix) which usually get to interview big rock bands and broadcast their concerts (or at least some songs). In fact, the guy who created Vorterix (Mario Pergolini) interviewed John Petrucci and Jordan in 2014, and was in charge of bringing DT to Argentina for the first time, in 2005. Maiden is one of the most beloved bands in the country and with a huge fanbase (I think they are second to The Rolling Stones in terms of popularity), so it wouldn't surprise me if the TV or radio journalists get to interview the band and/or broadcast some parts of the concert (the one in Buenos Aires, most probably)

I'll keep my eyes and ears open, and if any of you are interested, I'll post whatever I can find.

PS with a spoiler: So far, they have been playing "The Book Of Souls", which is my favourite song from the new album. I hope we get a live, good-quality recording of it (especially that instrumental part at the end So cool!). 

[Architeuthis]

Sucks for the people who are injured, wouldn't want to get hurt by that thing.

Does the perspective of those photos seem odd to anyone else? The 1st picture makes the engine look about 20 metres high while the other makes it look about 2.

There are two engines on each wing of the 747. Both engines were damaged. The first picture shows the outside engine which is up higher, the second photo shows the inside engine closer to the fuselage which hangs lower to the ground.

[Enigmachine]

Sucks for the people who are injured, wouldn't want to get hurt by that thing.

Does the perspective of those photos seem odd to anyone else? The 1st picture makes the engine look about 20 metres high while the other makes it look about 2.

There are two engines on each wing of the 747. Both engines were damaged. The first picture shows the outside engine which is up higher, the second photo shows the inside engine closer to the fuselage which hangs lower to the ground.

Ah, ok. Just me not thinking about it that much then.

[SebastianPratesi]

Some high quality pictures from last night's show in Córdoba:
https://vos.lavoz.com.ar/galerias/metal-y-emocion-las-mejores-fotos-del-historico-show-de-iron-maiden-en-cordoba?cx_level=flujo_1
https://www.cadena3.com/contenido/2016/03/14/Iron-Maiden-hizo-vibrar-a-20-mil-fanaticos-en-el-Kempes-159774.asp

I liked these ones:

[TAC]

Tim is a professional heavy metal photographer!

 

Oh, alright then! Didn't know that.

Still: were other people allowed to bring their cameras inside venues?

Don't believe JJ!

When I was a kid (I was 19 at the Maiden show), I smuggled a camera in my pants. For this show I went solo. I bought a 17th row floor ticket on Adrian's side. I managed to get up to the front as the show went on. I also got Adrian's pick at this show.

As far as policy, they were not allowed, but I never had a problem. You had to gauge what was going on. I tried to see if there were pictures being taken around me. If I saw someone get busted (they'd typically take/destroy your film), I'd be careful and wait till the end to get a good shot.

Looking back, I am so glad I have the pics. Such great souvenirs.

Yup. You tried to keep low key about it, but you were never too, too worried. This was before metal detectors were commonplace, so it was pretty easy to sneak in a small pocket Kodak (I believe Tim used the disk version). The hard part was scaring up $15 to get the pictures developed. When I was a wee lad Dio actually posed for a picture for me between songs. It would have been totally kick ass had I not been so caught off guard that I neglected to turn the telephoto off, which gave me a picture of one, giant-ass bloodshot eye.

The first camera I used was a $30 Vivitar that a friend of mine went in halves on. We went to a lot of shows together at the time, but there were many shows that we didn't. I ended up getting a better one when I went to college. Both were 35mm film. Automatic flash.

You are so right about the developing. One Hour photo was a relatively new and an AWESOME thing, but it wasn't cheap! Nice memory there Bart!