Author Topic: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls  (Read 557564 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #665 on: August 09, 2015, 08:47:30 PM »
The Apparition is a horrible song, as is Weekend Warrior. And don't get me started on the Virtual XI material.

Whoa there!  Lets reel you in a bit, bud.

The Apparition is a good track, and has some pretty cool lyrics that are a-typical of Maiden. 

The only 'bad' track on VXI is really AATG, and as 425 said, and we've discussed before, the single edit of that album largely corrects most of the mistakes they made with that song, namely its length. 

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #666 on: August 09, 2015, 08:55:07 PM »
The Apparition is a horrible song, as is Weekend Warrior. And don't get me started on the Virtual XI material.

The Apparition is shockingly mediocre. Weekend Warrior is bad.

VXI is awesome, easily the second best 90s album.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #667 on: August 10, 2015, 05:51:15 AM »
The Apparition has a cool structure which saves it IMO, and the instrumental section is killer.  It's not the best song, but I don't mind it.  WW, is borderline too, but the solos save the song also IMO.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline mrrct

  • Posts: 347
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #668 on: August 10, 2015, 05:57:53 PM »
I always hated Wasting Love, and view it as the line of demarcation between the good songs and the bad songs on Fear of the Dark, until it redeems itself with the title track at the end.

I agree with those who hate The Angel and the Gambler.  I find it wretched.  I do like Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter as kind of a guilty pleasure and I also find From Here to Eternity as a very good hard rock song, but maybe a little out of place with Maiden.

I find the last two albums of theirs to be very non-descript as opposed to bad.  I like the track The Final Frontier if you edit out the first four and a half minutes of Satellite 15.  I equate the last two albums to the two Blaze albums:  very little is actually bad, but most of the songs don't register no matter how many times I listen to them.  The Blaze albums might even have more good songs on them (Sign of the Cross, Lord of the Flies, Futureal, The Clansman) than the last two, although they're obviously improved with Dickinson singing them.  Oddly enough, I like the Blaze live version of Afraid to Shoot Strangers better than the Dickinson album version, maybe because Bruce's voice was shot for a few years (NPFTD and FOTD), although it recovered during his solo career.

Wolfking and jjRock88 are right about Virus being a great song.  It's the only reason I still have Best of the Beast, since I already have everything else from that career retrospective on other albums.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #669 on: August 10, 2015, 06:02:24 PM »
I also find From Here to Eternity as a very good hard rock song, but maybe a little out of place with Maiden.

Yah, I agree.  I always thought it would make a good AC/DC song when I was growing up.

I watched Raising Hell the other day, god what an awful concert video that was.  The magic stuff is tacky beyond words and the mix is shit, the band is pretty mediocre as well. 

Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
  • Posts: 8386
  • The Phoenix shall rise

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15236
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #671 on: August 10, 2015, 08:03:44 PM »
I always hated Wasting Love, and view it as the line of demarcation between the good songs and the bad songs on Fear of the Dark, until it redeems itself with the title track at the end.

I agree with those who hate The Angel and the Gambler.  I find it wretched.  I do like Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter as kind of a guilty pleasure and I also find From Here to Eternity as a very good hard rock song, but maybe a little out of place with Maiden.

I find the last two albums of theirs to be very non-descript as opposed to bad.  I like the track The Final Frontier if you edit out the first four and a half minutes of Satellite 15.  I equate the last two albums to the two Blaze albums:  very little is actually bad, but most of the songs don't register no matter how many times I listen to them.  The Blaze albums might even have more good songs on them (Sign of the Cross, Lord of the Flies, Futureal, The Clansman) than the last two, although they're obviously improved with Dickinson singing them.  Oddly enough, I like the Blaze live version of Afraid to Shoot Strangers better than the Dickinson album version, maybe because Bruce's voice was shot for a few years (NPFTD and FOTD), although it recovered during his solo career.

Wolfking and jjRock88 are right about Virus being a great song.  It's the only reason I still have Best of the Beast, since I already have everything else from that career retrospective on other albums.

Nailed it.   

I remember liking FotD as an album a lot more than people give it credit for.   It certainly seemed like a big time comeback after NPftD...which was just a dumb album.   I mean, the opening tracks from the two albums set them apart like night and day from the get go.   Holy Smoke is just silly, and Tailgunner is just freakin AWESOME. 

I also love From Here to Eternity and I'm really shocked by the negative feedback it's getting.   Certainly a livelier chorus than half the other IM songs from the era. 

I don't even know how people can lump TXF and VXI in the same pile.   Besides having Blaze at the helm, the two albums are as far apart as I can imagine.   TXF is a really dark album, and one of the more underrated in the entire catalog...VXI is just crap.     Even the songs that I start out liking (Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger) make me want to smash my stereo before it's finished.    The Clansman is OK, but that's pretty much it's only saving grace.   
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #672 on: August 10, 2015, 08:11:55 PM »
I remember liking FotD as an album a lot more than people give it credit for.   It certainly seemed like a big time comeback after NPftD...which was just a dumb album.   I mean, the opening tracks from the two albums set them apart like night and day from the get go.   Holy Smoke is just silly, and Tailgunner is just freakin AWESOME.

 ???

Tailgunner is the opening track on No Prayer for the Dying, not Fear of the Dark! Holy Smoke is track 2 on NPFTD.

FOTD opens up with Be Quick or Be Dead, which is followed by From Here To Eternity, which is sillier than Holy Smoke.


  I don't even know how people can lump TXF and VXI in the same pile.   Besides having Blaze at the helm, the two albums are as far apart as I can imagine.   TXF is a really dark album, and one of the more underrated in the entire catalog

Yes, I agree 100%.

...VXI is just crap.     Even the songs that I start out liking (Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger) make me want to smash my stereo before it's finished.    The Clansman is OK, but that's pretty much it's only saving grace.

No, I disagree 100%. VXI isn't in the league of TXF, but I'd put it in middle-bottom tier. It's easily the second best 90s album.


If you look at the two from a songwriting perspective, it becomes clear that VXI is like an immature BNW. It's the step that they absolutely needed to take to get to Brave New World. BNW definitely would not exist if not for VXI.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15236
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #673 on: August 10, 2015, 08:21:00 PM »
Thank you for the correction.     :facepalm:   Shows you how long it's been since I listened to those albums. 

I think my brain slipped a gear because Holy Smoke was the lead off single...and it's dumb.   BQoBD was the lead off single from FotD and it completely kicks ass. 

But I guess now I've found a song from No Prayer that I actually like (Tailgunner) too bad it's just all downhill after that.

No way FHtE is sillier than Holy Smoke.    Holy Smoke feels like a Spinal Tap song to me, whereas FHtE just feels like straight up  :metal  .   I love it.

EDIT: ...and as far as VXI being an immature BNW, you might have a point.   Too bad Steve didn't learn his lesson though.   I'll never forget how much that album let me down.   I dropped Maiden completely for YEARS after that disappointment.   I wanted the reunion, but I was expecting a return to form.   What I got was.....OK.    Still way too many repetitive choruses.      I never heard any of the new stuff after that until someone told me to check out AMOLAD just about a year ago.   Totally blew my doors off and renewed my interest in Maiden.   Still don't like BNW, but I'm hoping to check out DoD and FF soon.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #674 on: August 10, 2015, 08:26:00 PM »
But I guess now I've found a song from No Prayer that I actually like (Tailgunner) too bad it's just all downhill after that.

 :lol At least something good came of it! I wouldn't dare try to sell anyone on the silly Holy Smoke, Hooks In You or Bring Your Daughter..., but I feel that at least the title track and Mother Russia are awesome, serious songs worthy of another chance.

No way FHtE is sillier than Holy Smoke.    Holy Smoke feels like a Spinal Tap song to me, whereas FHtE just feels like straight up  :metal  .   I love it.

Yeah, Bruce does ham it up more in Holy Smoke... but, lyrically, at least that one has a message that isn't just thinly veiled innuendo.

I also don't really appreciate the way FHTE (and HIY before it) tack on to the Charlotte story but just make it silly instead of smart and meaningfully satirical.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline bl5150

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9132
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #675 on: August 10, 2015, 08:36:56 PM »
I like Holy Smoke  ;D   It's a very light hearted video/song but with an underlying message - similar to Miracle Man by Ozzy.  And I actually like Bruce when he sings in that lower, gruffer range rather than pushing himself to the limit up high.
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au

Offline Cyclopssss

  • Vocal Dinosaur pre-heat combustable
  • Posts: 2993
  • Gender: Male
  • Connoseur of love
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #676 on: August 11, 2015, 01:02:07 AM »
Great points about FOTD and NPFTD. I was an avid fan ever since Killers came out and bought every album upon release.
They improved with every album, right up until SSOASS, after that...the air sort of went out of the tire, I guess. There definetely are some great songs on Fear of the dark, but the bad songs are really, REALLY bad.... same with prayer for the dying, tailgunner is great, I even liked holy smoke. Same with the Assassin and Fates warning, and I loved Run silent, run deep.
Hooks in you and Bring your daughter though, are just silly really. And too easy, not Maiden-worthy for me. I seriously went off them after that.
Never bought XI or Virtual X. Glad I caught on with BNW and really regretting never having seen them live until now.... I just hope Kevin Shirley keeps a bit of a raw edge to the sound of the new album though. That fragment sounded a bit too slick for my liking.   :metal
From the ocean comes the notion that the realise lies in rhythm. The rhythm of vision is dancer, and when you dance you´re always on the one. From the looking comes to see, wondrous realise real eyes....

Offline Cyclopssss

  • Vocal Dinosaur pre-heat combustable
  • Posts: 2993
  • Gender: Male
  • Connoseur of love
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #677 on: August 11, 2015, 01:07:03 AM »
Bruce yet again proves to be the badass that he is.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/iron-maidens-bruce-dickinson-makes-emergency-landing-after-his-replica-war-plane-runs-low-on-fuel/

LOL 'in my spare time I sing a bit'  :mehlin

He looks like a frigging tailgunner in that pic!
From the ocean comes the notion that the realise lies in rhythm. The rhythm of vision is dancer, and when you dance you´re always on the one. From the looking comes to see, wondrous realise real eyes....

Offline Mladen

  • Posts: 15203
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #678 on: August 11, 2015, 04:39:07 AM »
No, I disagree 100%. VXI isn't in the league of TXF, but I'd put it in middle-bottom tier. It's easily the second best 90s album.


If you look at the two from a songwriting perspective, it becomes clear that VXI is like an immature BNW. It's the step that they absolutely needed to take to get to Brave New World. BNW definitely would not exist if not for VXI.
VXI definitely is the 2nd best 90s Maiden album, but even then it's still their 3rd worst album. Which is quite painful to say, I still consider it to be pretty good and massively underrated.

As far as comparisons to BNW go, that's absolutely true. BNW sounds like a slightly upgraded VXI. The songwriting is remarkably similar, and it's a known fact that the band used some leftovers from VXI.

Offline Lowdz

  • Posts: 10378
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #679 on: August 11, 2015, 04:13:15 PM »
Having been a fan from the first album I didn't even buy NPFtD or XF. I have listened to both since and don't feel I'm missing much. I did buy VXI and didn't hate it but I really don't like Blaze's flat, boring voice. Nice bloke though. Had a few drinks with him and Wolfsbane after a gig.
I don't mind Holy Smoke or BYDTTS but by this stage other bands were doing Maiden better than Maiden were and I gravitated to them. I really fell out with Bruce's voice around this time too so his solo stuff didn't grab me either.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #680 on: August 11, 2015, 04:19:21 PM »
Did you pick up The Chemical Wedding?  That's a prime example of people doing Maiden better than Maiden, and Bruce's voice is back in form.  Even on Accident of Birth really. 

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #681 on: August 11, 2015, 04:22:34 PM »
Chemical Wedding = Best ever metal album.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #682 on: August 11, 2015, 04:29:22 PM »
Chemical Wedding = Best ever metal album.

this guy gets it

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12786
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #683 on: August 11, 2015, 04:31:28 PM »
Chemical Wedding = Best ever metal album.

If that were true, I would have it.  I do not have it.  In fact, I have never even heard it.  Ergo, it is not the best ever metal album.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Lowdz

  • Posts: 10378
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #684 on: August 11, 2015, 04:31:37 PM »
I have tried it. It's one of those have to be in the mood albums for me. It's a bit dark and I generally don't do dark. Quality album though.
I'm listening to dance of death arm and enjoying it more than I remember .

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #685 on: August 11, 2015, 04:37:57 PM »
Dark is how I would describe it definitely.  Lyrically, aesthetically and even sonically. 

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #686 on: August 11, 2015, 04:39:22 PM »
Chemical Wedding = Best ever metal album.

If that were true, I would have it.  I do not have it.  In fact, I have never even heard it.  Ergo, it is not the best ever metal album.

Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Lowdz

  • Posts: 10378
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #687 on: August 11, 2015, 04:43:16 PM »
I've moved on to Tyranny of Souls now, probably my favourite Bruce album.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #688 on: August 11, 2015, 04:45:18 PM »
I really rate that album, besides Believil probably. I just wish Roy's guitar sounded less single-coily.

Offline Lowdz

  • Posts: 10378
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #689 on: August 11, 2015, 04:48:11 PM »
I really rate that album, besides Believil probably. I just wish Roy's guitar sounded less single-coily.

I prefer the guitar sound on this to most Maiden albums and the other Bruce albums. None of that down tuned stuff.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #690 on: August 11, 2015, 05:04:07 PM »
mate, there's plenty of down tuned guitar on Tyranny!  off the top of my head, Soul Intruders and Kill Devil Hill?

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74076
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #691 on: August 11, 2015, 05:44:21 PM »
mate, there's plenty of down tuned guitar on Tyranny! 
There sure is, and that's why it took me the longest to appreciate.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #692 on: August 11, 2015, 06:00:02 PM »
Chemical Wedding is just as good, if not better than anything Maiden ever did. Definitely one of the greatest Metal albums of all time. I wouldn't say the best (that goes to Painkiller for me) but definitely in the top 5.
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #693 on: August 11, 2015, 06:24:04 PM »
mate, there's plenty of down tuned guitar on Tyranny!  off the top of my head, Soul Intruders and Kill Devil Hill?

Most of Bruce's stuff is either standard or Drop D tuning, although CW has songs dropped a lot lower than that.  H even used bass strings apparently to get the bottom end.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74076
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #694 on: August 11, 2015, 06:27:07 PM »
Kade, you would know, but Chemical Wedding, while sounding darker than AOB, definitely sounds lighter that TOS.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #695 on: August 11, 2015, 07:12:41 PM »
Kade, you would know, but Chemical Wedding, while sounding darker than AOB, definitely sounds lighter that TOS.

Hmmm, I don't agree with this.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline sneakyblueberry

  • put me in coach
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4363
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #696 on: August 11, 2015, 07:40:44 PM »
mate, there's plenty of down tuned guitar on Tyranny!  off the top of my head, Soul Intruders and Kill Devil Hill?

Most of Bruce's stuff is either standard or Drop D tuning, although CW has songs dropped a lot lower than that.  H even used bass strings apparently to get the bottom end.

Yep, I've heard that bandied about.  Specifically for King in Crimson and Trumpets of Jericho, both of which would use a low B.  Which explains why they're played one after the other live.   

I always wondered if they meant he had restrung a six string to get that low B, or if he just replaced the B on a standard 7 string with a 0.30-0.35 bass string (which would be the G on a bass guitar).  Either way it must put some gnarly strain on that poor guitar neck. 

Furthermore, why wouldn't you just use a baritone guitar? :lol I guess that's a part of H's charm; he can be deeply idiosyncratic.  I remember watching a video where he talks about first learning the riffs from Accident of Birth that were in 'drop d' and he took to tuning his whole guitar down to D standard - strings flopping about like 6 trouts in a puddle. 

Kade, you would know, but Chemical Wedding, while sounding darker than AOB, definitely sounds lighter that TOS.

Hmmm, I don't agree with this.

I always thought songs like Navigate the Seas of the Sun and Devil on a Hog were much lighter, and more playful than anything on Chemical Wedding. 

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46256
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #697 on: August 11, 2015, 07:49:43 PM »
It sounds like a baritone guitar anyway, I also don't understand why they just didn't take that route.  Not sure how they did the bass strings on the guitar either, I don't think there's ever been concrete info on how this was done.  I don't see how that would have worked, surely would have damaged the guitar.

I've seen that video of H also where he had never heard of Drop D until Roy was doing it.  :lol

And yeah, I get the title track and Believil are pretty dark, but not compared to CW IMO.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Mister Gold

  • The Makers of Our Own Destiny
  • Posts: 2359
  • Gender: Male
  • Human
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #698 on: August 11, 2015, 08:22:50 PM »
Chemical Wedding = Best ever metal album.

If that were true, I would have it.  I do not have it.  In fact, I have never even heard it.  Ergo, it is not the best ever metal album.



Wolfking nailed it.

Bosk, if you haven't heard The Chemical Wedding yet, you need to change that ASAP. Easily the best work to ever come from Bruce, which is saying something.
Beyond the limits of the mortal frame
To the farthest boundary of eternity
Where I, the Cosmic Sea
Watch the little ego floating in me.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: THE El Dorado Thread (and other Iron Maiden related musings)
« Reply #699 on: August 11, 2015, 09:25:52 PM »
I haven't heard it either. I've heard Accident of Birth, and thought it was pretty good, but it wasn't really enough to inspire me to buy more solo Bruce.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time