The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I've said it before but I have a special thing for Skunkworks. It feels very 90s and a bit grunge but I absolutly love that it's so diffrent from the rest of his solo disc.

[Mladen]

I'd put Skunkworks right being Accident and Wedding. It's amazing hearing Bruce's voice in a more alternative setting. The melodies are strong throughout as well.

[cramx3]

I never quite understood that mentality that Hagar, Gillan, Halford, some others have.  I know lyrics are personal, but it's not like none of those guys have never sung a cover before.

I thought Hagar singing Unchained on his last VH tour was quite awesome and unexpected. I do wish he had sung more DLR songs though.

[nobloodyname]

Edit: forget it. Not worth the internet bun fight

[pg1067]

The thing that I liked about Halford's book, that I didn't about Bruce's book...well two things actually. Rob has some humility about him, whereas Bruce couldn't be more proud of himself for every pun in the book.

And with Rob's, you got some band history included. If you wanted to learn something about Iron maiden, you weren't getting it in Bruce's book.

I love them both, but Halford calls himself the 'metal god' and TTBOMK has never sung a JP Ripper era song live.
While Bruce has sung some of the Blaze songs.
They both have ego's, we all do, but as singers for world famous bands I am sure there's are large

Having worked with him, I can tell you that Halford is one of the most humble people (much less a superstar) I've ever met.  He's said publicly that he's open to performing a Jugulator/Demolition song (as is Ritchie Faulkner), but....

I know Lightning Strike is getting played on the anniversary tour, but have any other songs from the four albums since Halford rejoined been played on multiple tours?  Feels like most of those songs (the ones that actually got played) got the one and done treatment in the live sets, and thus there is no reason to revisit anything from the Ripper albums. They know that the run up to Painkiller is their bread and butter, and I suspect the number of fans at the average Priest concert in 2022 who wants to hear them playing anything from Jugulator or Demolition is pretty tiny.

I think all of that is true.  Also, looking at a few set lists at random on setlist.fm, Prophecy, Judas Rising, Halls of Valhalla and March of the Damned (along with Lightning Strike) have gotten significant run on tours subsequent to their album tours, so the answer to the question is yes, but the numbers have been VERY few.  While they keep making albums, and while the reunion albums have been mostly good (Firepower was excellent), as a live band, Priest is a nostalgia act.

[Stadler]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach. 

[pg1067]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach.

NMB?

Seriously...I googled and got nothing.

[wolfking]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach.

NMB?

Seriously...I googled and got nothing.

Neal Morse Band.

[MirrorMask]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach.

I must be in the minority because I always want to see challenging setlists from my favorite bands. If I love them enough to pay for a ticket, I'm probably invested enough in knowing "all" the albums and therefore not wanting just the staples.

When I saw Dio at Wacken, I knew I was getting Heaven and Hell and Holy Diver. I was happiest when I got the surprises - Gates of Babylon and Stargazer. To this day, when I think of that concert, I don't think "yay, I finally heard Holy Diver live", but "Fuck yeah, I got Gates of Babylon!!"

Same with Metallica, yeah sure, it was cool there in the moment to finally see the fireworks exploding at the beginning and the end of Enter Sandman, but I remember the most them playing The Call of Ktulu and a shitload of Ride the Lightning songs, my favorite album. At my first Metallica gig they didn't play Nothing Else Matters and I didn't even care. They played it the second time I saw them, and I virtually have no memories of it. I've heard that song so many times that experiencing it live it was, dunno, like seeing Mona Lisa at the Louvre, I already know what it's like, seeing it finally in person it's just taking note that yes, that's the painting, guess what? it's how I already knew it was.

[Stadler]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach.

I must be in the minority because I always want to see challenging setlists from my favorite bands. If I love them enough to pay for a ticket, I'm probably invested enough in knowing "all" the albums and therefore not wanting just the staples.

When I saw Dio at Wacken, I knew I was getting Heaven and Hell and Holy Diver. I was happiest when I got the surprises - Gates of Babylon and Stargazer. To this day, when I think of that concert, I don't think "yay, I finally heard Holy Diver live", but "Fuck yeah, I got Gates of Babylon!!"

Same with Metallica, yeah sure, it was cool there in the moment to finally see the fireworks exploding at the beginning and the end of Enter Sandman, but I remember the most them playing The Call of Ktulu and a shitload of Ride the Lightning songs, my favorite album. At my first Metallica gig they didn't play Nothing Else Matters and I didn't even care. They played it the second time I saw them, and I virtually have no memories of it. I've heard that song so many times that experiencing it live it was, dunno, like seeing Mona Lisa at the Louvre, I already know what it's like, seeing it finally in person it's just taking note that yes, that's the painting, guess what? it's how I already knew it was.

It's not that I don't want those nuggets; I love them too.  "Waterfall" was that for me.   "Sign Of The Cross" was that when I saw Maiden.   There are others.   But I'm pragmatic enough to recognize that if I don't get that nugget, I'm not going to say 'wow this sucks'.   I'm also in a position where I can be entertained with the spectacle of a song I know by a band I know putting in the energy even though I saw that song 10 times before.   When I saw Maiden in Hartford, of all the nuggets, of all the bombs, planes, flamethrowers and sword fights, the most electric moment of the entire show was... "The Number Of The Beast".  The one song (other than Iron Maiden) that I've seen EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I've seen Maiden was like nothing I've seen from them.  The place was bathed in orange light, and the pavilion was literally shaking with 10,000 punters all moving in unison.  I'll take that over "Alexander The Great" 5 out of 7 days a week.

[cramx3]

I feel the same as MirrorMask, but I also have to understand that people like us typically are the more "hardcore" fans which only accounts for a minority percentage of the people at a show.  Bands recognize that and will cater to the majority audience that wants to see the hits and classics.  And this is a reason why I respect IM so much, they manage to do both albeit the rarer stuff comes from the new music and not too much of pulling out old never played songs.  I can also name some similar examples, like seeing IM perform Lord of Light was way more memorable that evening than when they played Fear of the Dark or 2 Minutes to Midnight, but I bet there was a lot more people who thought otherwise in that crowd.

[MirrorMask]

I think we're seeing a lot of that.  Some exceptions - NMB, Maiden every other tour - but largely, when you're selling 50,000 or 100,000 of your new record, tops, it's safe to say that most of the people in your concert audience are not there for that.  I know for me, at my age now, many of the shows I go to are to show my kids what I grew up with; that in and of itself begs a sort of "greatest hits" approach.

I must be in the minority because I always want to see challenging setlists from my favorite bands. If I love them enough to pay for a ticket, I'm probably invested enough in knowing "all" the albums and therefore not wanting just the staples.

When I saw Dio at Wacken, I knew I was getting Heaven and Hell and Holy Diver. I was happiest when I got the surprises - Gates of Babylon and Stargazer. To this day, when I think of that concert, I don't think "yay, I finally heard Holy Diver live", but "Fuck yeah, I got Gates of Babylon!!"

Same with Metallica, yeah sure, it was cool there in the moment to finally see the fireworks exploding at the beginning and the end of Enter Sandman, but I remember the most them playing The Call of Ktulu and a shitload of Ride the Lightning songs, my favorite album. At my first Metallica gig they didn't play Nothing Else Matters and I didn't even care. They played it the second time I saw them, and I virtually have no memories of it. I've heard that song so many times that experiencing it live it was, dunno, like seeing Mona Lisa at the Louvre, I already know what it's like, seeing it finally in person it's just taking note that yes, that's the painting, guess what? it's how I already knew it was.

It's not that I don't want those nuggets; I love them too.  "Waterfall" was that for me.   "Sign Of The Cross" was that when I saw Maiden.   There are others.   But I'm pragmatic enough to recognize that if I don't get that nugget, I'm not going to say 'wow this sucks'.   I'm also in a position where I can be entertained with the spectacle of a song I know by a band I know putting in the energy even though I saw that song 10 times before.   When I saw Maiden in Hartford, of all the nuggets, of all the bombs, planes, flamethrowers and sword fights, the most electric moment of the entire show was... "The Number Of The Beast".  The one song (other than Iron Maiden) that I've seen EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I've seen Maiden was like nothing I've seen from them.  The place was bathed in orange light, and the pavilion was literally shaking with 10,000 punters all moving in unison.  I'll take that over "Alexander The Great" 5 out of 7 days a week.

Oh yeah, on that I agree. We all have our personal level of tolerance for those overplayed songs. Would I listen to The Trooper right now, or tomorrow? no, why would I? I heard the song a gazillion times, enough. When I'm there at the gig and I see appearing the iconic Eddie soldier banner do I launch into a ferocious "Oh oh oh oh oh oh ho ho ho" at the top of my lungs? hell yes.

[425]

To me, songs like The Trooper and The Number of the Beast and especially Iron Maiden have sort of transcended being songs when they're played in concert and gone into the category of experiences. Like, yes, I can step back and think about them esthetically as pieces of music, but at this point I primarily think of them as part of the show. That's why I'd never want them to pull Iron Maiden from the setlist, despite thinking that it's one of their weakest songs. It would be like going to a baseball game where they didn't play Take Me Out to the Ballgame in the 7th inning (which I also don't give much thought to as a song vs. as part of the experience).

The only heavily played Maiden song that has fully escaped this is Hallowed Be Thy Name, which is because it's just so good of a song.

[MirrorMask]

That's why I'd never want them to pull Iron Maiden from the setlist, despite thinking that it's one of their weakest songs.

Wholeheartedly agree. Who "needs" to hear an old song with juvenile lyrics repeated thrice? no one. But it's an integral part of the experience, an excuse to shout the name of the band some times and, more importantly, Eddie's moment, so while musically the song Iron Maiden has no place in a setlist of a band with 17 albums, as an experience it has to stay forever and ever in the last slot of the main set.

[El Barto]

I go both ways on it. One of the best Maiden shows I've seen was TFF tour when they played mostly post-reunion stuff that we seldom got to see. I got Paschendale, DoD, Brighter, TRoBB, and No More Lies over two nights. Or any of the historic tours where we got other nuggets. The re-do of the 7th Son tour was great, as was the Early Days.

At the same time, the Mexico shows I've seen don't work that way. It's a different experience. They're there for the greatest hits and you simply don't get the same energy from the more obscure stuff. There was a noticeable lull during SotC and FtGGoG, and it took Trooper or RttH to rile them back up again. Ideally I want to see both shows.

[Stadler]

That's why I'd never want them to pull Iron Maiden from the setlist, despite thinking that it's one of their weakest songs.

Wholeheartedly agree. Who "needs" to hear an old song with juvenile lyrics repeated thrice? no one. But it's an integral part of the experience, an excuse to shout the name of the band some times and, more importantly, Eddie's moment, so while musically the song Iron Maiden has no place in a setlist of a band with 17 albums, as an experience it has to stay forever and ever in the last slot of the main set.

And don't forget Bruce's wail "it's the Iroooonnnnnnnn MAIDENNNNNNNNNN!" before the song!

[Stadler]

I go both ways on it. One of the best Maiden shows I've seen was TFF tour when they played mostly post-reunion stuff that we seldom got to see. I got Paschendale, DoD, Brighter, TRoBB, and No More Lies over two nights. Or any of the historic tours where we got other nuggets. The re-do of the 7th Son tour was great, as was the Early Days.

At the same time, the Mexico shows I've seen don't work that way. It's a different experience. They're there for the greatest hits and you simply don't get the same energy from the more obscure stuff. There was a noticeable lull during SotC and FtGGoG, and it took Trooper or RttH to rile them back up again. Ideally I want to see both shows.

And that's the thing about Maiden:  They are one of the very few bands to give you both.   I'm first in line to see Senjutsu in it's entirety, and yet, the Legacy show was one of the best I've ever seen (and one of the very few where when I saw it on video later, held up to the impression).

[El Barto]

I go both ways on it. One of the best Maiden shows I've seen was TFF tour when they played mostly post-reunion stuff that we seldom got to see. I got Paschendale, DoD, Brighter, TRoBB, and No More Lies over two nights. Or any of the historic tours where we got other nuggets. The re-do of the 7th Son tour was great, as was the Early Days.

At the same time, the Mexico shows I've seen don't work that way. It's a different experience. They're there for the greatest hits and you simply don't get the same energy from the more obscure stuff. There was a noticeable lull during SotC and FtGGoG, and it took Trooper or RttH to rile them back up again. Ideally I want to see both shows.

And that's the thing about Maiden:  They are one of the very few bands to give you both.   I'm first in line to see Senjutsu in it's entirety, and yet, the Legacy show was one of the best I've ever seen (and one of the very few where when I saw it on video later, held up to the impression).

I don't even like Senjutsu all that much, but I'll be next in line behind you. The difference is that's one I wouldn't head South to see. The greatest hits gigs I absolutely would.

[Stadler]

I go both ways on it. One of the best Maiden shows I've seen was TFF tour when they played mostly post-reunion stuff that we seldom got to see. I got Paschendale, DoD, Brighter, TRoBB, and No More Lies over two nights. Or any of the historic tours where we got other nuggets. The re-do of the 7th Son tour was great, as was the Early Days.

At the same time, the Mexico shows I've seen don't work that way. It's a different experience. They're there for the greatest hits and you simply don't get the same energy from the more obscure stuff. There was a noticeable lull during SotC and FtGGoG, and it took Trooper or RttH to rile them back up again. Ideally I want to see both shows.

And that's the thing about Maiden:  They are one of the very few bands to give you both.   I'm first in line to see Senjutsu in it's entirety, and yet, the Legacy show was one of the best I've ever seen (and one of the very few where when I saw it on video later, held up to the impression).

I don't even like Senjutsu all that much, but I'll be next in line behind you. The difference is that's one I wouldn't head South to see. The greatest hits gigs I absolutely would.

Really?  I'm really loving it.  I mentioned to my friend Jim, who went with me to both the Souls tour and the Legacy show and he's not all that thrilled with it either.  Then again, Killers is his favorite record of all time, so everything is compared to that.

I wish other bands - Kiss for one, though they're past that now - would do that too.  One tour "hits", one tour "album".  I think you really have to want to tour a lot to do that, and Maiden is sort of unique that way; they can afford to do a couple months every 18 months nowadays.

[El Barto]

I go both ways on it. One of the best Maiden shows I've seen was TFF tour when they played mostly post-reunion stuff that we seldom got to see. I got Paschendale, DoD, Brighter, TRoBB, and No More Lies over two nights. Or any of the historic tours where we got other nuggets. The re-do of the 7th Son tour was great, as was the Early Days.

At the same time, the Mexico shows I've seen don't work that way. It's a different experience. They're there for the greatest hits and you simply don't get the same energy from the more obscure stuff. There was a noticeable lull during SotC and FtGGoG, and it took Trooper or RttH to rile them back up again. Ideally I want to see both shows.

And that's the thing about Maiden:  They are one of the very few bands to give you both.   I'm first in line to see Senjutsu in it's entirety, and yet, the Legacy show was one of the best I've ever seen (and one of the very few where when I saw it on video later, held up to the impression).

I don't even like Senjutsu all that much, but I'll be next in line behind you. The difference is that's one I wouldn't head South to see. The greatest hits gigs I absolutely would.

Really?  I'm really loving it.  I mentioned to my friend Jim, who went with me to both the Souls tour and the Legacy show and he's not all that thrilled with it either.  Then again, Killers is his favorite record of all time, so everything is compared to that.

I wish other bands - Kiss for one, though they're past that now - would do that too.  One tour "hits", one tour "album".  I think you really have to want to tour a lot to do that, and Maiden is sort of unique that way; they can afford to do a couple months every 18 months nowadays.

Well, he's right about Killers, after all. As I said back when it first came out, it's probably Maiden's masterpiece. It's what they've been building up to all along, and I think they perfected what they're shooting for. I just find it rather boring, honestly. It's slicker, and they added some interesting elements to it, but musically it's pretty much the same thing they've been doing for 20 years.

[porcacultor]

There's one other reason why I like having Iron Maiden (the song) on the setlist: that part where it's just bass and drums right before the big Eddie pops up at the back. It's a given that a decent-sounding venue will allow you to hear Steve throughout the show, but to me that's HIS moment (and Nicko's, of course), as if you were a foot away from him (even if you're not). Makes sense?

[Deadeye21]

I’m extremely excited for Senjutsu in its entirety. Keen to see what they could possibly encore with. Is it just me or Fear of the Dark straight after Hell on Earth is going to be the biggest let down?

[wolfking]

I’m extremely excited for Senjutsu in its entirety. Keen to see what they could possibly encore with. Is it just me or Fear of the Dark straight after Hell on Earth is going to be the biggest let down?

At this point, FOTD in any part of the setlist is a letdown.

[MirrorMask]

Fear of the Dark is a letdown for two reasons:

1) You have to hear again the song
2) You know that the show is about to end, because after that it's only Iron Maiden and then the encores.

In the Legacy tour it was nice to get, as a surprise, The Number of the Beast between FOTD and Iron Maiden, it was like getting an extra song while I was already prepared for the show to reach its end.

[TAC]

Fear Of The Dark is amazing. All the time. Everytime.

[cramx3]

Fear Of The Dark is amazing. All the time. Everytime.

Yup, this and Hallowed are fine set staples IMO.  I can do without IM even if it is the big Eddie finale type song.  It does nothing for me. 

[TAC]

Don't most bands have a "handful" of songs that are always played? I don't have a problem with that. I love that Iron Maiden plays large parts of their current album. My biggest issue with Maiden's setlists is that while a third of it is the classics, a third of it is the new stuff, the last third usually comes from a small pool of other tracks. If Maiden could increase that pool of tracks, I think that would be great.

[cramx3]

I think that's part of the problem when you have an unwritten rule that if they don't play the song on the album tour, it doesn't get played.  Kind of limits the pool of songs they end up choosing from.

[TAC]

I think that's part of the problem when you have an unwritten rule that if they don't play the song on the album tour, it doesn't get played.  Kind of limits the pool of songs they end up choosing from.

Well, except that each new album has 5 or 6 songs that get played. That should still give them an extremely large pool.

[El Barto]

I’m extremely excited for Senjutsu in its entirety. Keen to see what they could possibly encore with. Is it just me or Fear of the Dark straight after Hell on Earth is going to be the biggest let down?

At this point, FOTD in any part of the setlist is a letdown.

As I aluded to before, it kind of depends on what sort of show you're looking to see. In a US show I feel the same way. Twenty other songs I'd rather here. I'm just sick and tired of it. At a more energetic show it's one of the highlights because everybody knows it and can sing along. A concert in Mexico, down in the middle of the crowd, wouldn't be the same without it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3AU38GB8dQ

[cramx3]

I think that's part of the problem when you have an unwritten rule that if they don't play the song on the album tour, it doesn't get played.  Kind of limits the pool of songs they end up choosing from.

Well, except that each new album has 5 or 6 songs that get played. That should still give them an extremely large pool.

Sure, but it's still "part" of the problem.  The other part I'd guess is that of the 5 or 6 songs they play, maybe only 2 or 3 get a good crowd reaction and are worthy (in their minds) of being played again.  Could also be timing, as in a song like Dream of Mirrors which got played during the BNW tour is just too long to get rotated back in, so that pool of songs we are talking about ends up being under 5 minute long songs mostly.  Another part could be willingness to re-learn songs.  They've kind of used that excuse to not bring back Alexander the Great.  I do think it's a shame so many good songs don't get played live or only get played live on the album tour and never again. 

[El Barto]

I think that's part of the problem when you have an unwritten rule that if they don't play the song on the album tour, it doesn't get played.  Kind of limits the pool of songs they end up choosing from.

Well, except that each new album has 5 or 6 songs that get played. That should still give them an extremely large pool.

Sure, but it's still "part" of the problem.  The other part I'd guess is that of the 5 or 6 songs they play, maybe only 2 or 3 get a good crowd reaction and are worthy (in their minds) of being played again.  Could also be timing, as in a song like Dream of Mirrors which got played during the BNW tour is just too long to get rotated back in, so that pool of songs we are talking about ends up being under 5 minute long songs mostly.  Another part could be willingness to re-learn songs.  They've kind of used that excuse to not bring back Alexander the Great.  I do think it's a shame so many good songs don't get played live or only get played live on the album tour and never again.

And using crowd reaction isn't always the best indicator of the rightness of a song. On opening night of the tour with DT they played Brighter pretty early in the set. By day two in Houston they replaced it with Wratchild because they didn't think it got a good enough reaction. Nobody should ever use Dallas as a measuring stick for how a song might go over. And therein lies the problem. Not only will different audiences react differently to a song, the band's enthusiasm will elicit a different reaction, and that can vary from night to night.

[nobloodyname]

They've kind of used that excuse to not bring back Alexander the Great.

Bring back? They've never actually played it, have they?

[cramx3]

They've kind of used that excuse to not bring back Alexander the Great.

Bring back? They've never actually played it, have they?

Lol, you are correct.

[cramx3]

I think that's part of the problem when you have an unwritten rule that if they don't play the song on the album tour, it doesn't get played.  Kind of limits the pool of songs they end up choosing from.

Well, except that each new album has 5 or 6 songs that get played. That should still give them an extremely large pool.

Sure, but it's still "part" of the problem.  The other part I'd guess is that of the 5 or 6 songs they play, maybe only 2 or 3 get a good crowd reaction and are worthy (in their minds) of being played again.  Could also be timing, as in a song like Dream of Mirrors which got played during the BNW tour is just too long to get rotated back in, so that pool of songs we are talking about ends up being under 5 minute long songs mostly.  Another part could be willingness to re-learn songs.  They've kind of used that excuse to not bring back Alexander the Great.  I do think it's a shame so many good songs don't get played live or only get played live on the album tour and never again.

And using crowd reaction isn't always the best indicator of the rightness of a song. On opening night of the tour with DT they played Brighter pretty early in the set. By day two in Houston they replaced it with Wratchild because they didn't think it got a good enough reaction. Nobody should ever use Dallas as a measuring stick for how a song might go over. And therein lies the problem. Not only will different audiences react differently to a song, the band's enthusiasm will elicit a different reaction, and that can vary from night to night.

My understanding was they dropped the song because Nicko had trouble playing it.  But maybe crowd reaction played a role in that too.  I do agree, crowd reaction is not a good reason to not play a song.