The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[El Barto]

I'll be damned. It appears the Hall wants to include the lot of them for rejection. Including Stratton, Dianno, and Burr. Blaze is the only one not included.

[425]

That's surprising. I suppose the logic, which I very much disagree with, is that Stratton should be in for playing on the debut album, which is more of a classic in comparison to the Blaze albums, even though his overall contribution to the band was very small.

[Mladen]

Are you reading that off of somewhere?

[425]

It turns out that none of us were looking too closely at the news articles that came out two days ago. It's listed right in there.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/rock-hall-of-fame-jay-z-foo-fighters-iron-maiden-tina-turner-lead-nominees/ar-BB1dz9D8

Per the tradition of the past few years, the Hall of Fame named the individual band members that will enter should their group get inducted. For Iron Maiden, they cited the current lineup of singer Bruce Dickinson, bassist Steve Harris, drummer Nicko McBrain, and guitarists Adrian Smith, Dave Murray, and Janick Gers, along with former singer Paul Di’Anno, former drummer Clive Burr, and former guitarist Dennis Stratton.

[faizoff]

Reading it on Blabbermouth
 

According to the Hall Of Fame, the IRON MAIDEN members that would get inducted include the current lineup of singer Bruce Dickinson, bassist Steve Harris, drummer Nicko McBrain, and guitarists Adrian Smith, Dave Murray and Janick Gers, along with Stratton, former singer Paul Di'Anno and former drummer Clive Burr.

[Stadler]

It turns out that none of us were looking too closely at the news articles that came out two days ago. It's listed right in there.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/rock-hall-of-fame-jay-z-foo-fighters-iron-maiden-tina-turner-lead-nominees/ar-BB1dz9D8

Per the tradition of the past few years, the Hall of Fame named the individual band members that will enter should their group get inducted. For Iron Maiden, they cited the current lineup of singer Bruce Dickinson, bassist Steve Harris, drummer Nicko McBrain, and guitarists Adrian Smith, Dave Murray, and Janick Gers, along with former singer Paul Di’Anno, former drummer Clive Burr, and former guitarist Dennis Stratton.

Well, I'm taking that as a sign I'm right; Rolling Stone (Jann Wenner's baby) has Jay-Z, Foo Fighters and Tina T. on the main page in pictures.  They're in. Who's with them?

[Mladen]

Good God. Based on what criteria iz Blaze Bayley the only band member that appeared on an official Iron Maiden album but isn't being inducted?

[cramx3]

Good God. Based on what criteria iz Blaze Bayley the only band member that appeared on an official Iron Maiden album but isn't being inducted?

Probably because he is on what is often considered their two worst albums and the lowest point in the bands career.  I'm a blaze fan and all, so I don't mean it personal against him, but I don't think he has earned the right to be included personally.  Having said that, I'm not entirely sure why Stratton is included. 

[MirrorMask]

He played on the legendary debult album.

[Mladen]

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that, even if the hall of fame inducts them (which is unlikely), Steve and Bruce might go "No way, fuck off." and not show up.

Have there been any bands that were invited to their induction but declined?

[jjrock88]

I don't think Axl showed up.

[wolfking]

I can see why Blaze wasn't included, but being the only member not to be included that played on a studio album is pretty shit.  Yes, it was their lowest point in their career, but he allowed the Maiden name to continue.  They kept going as a band which in turn lead to the reunion era.  Almost like the Blaze era had to happen to get what we have gotten from the band in the last 21 years.

[Stadler]

I can see why Blaze wasn't included, but being the only member not to be included that played on a studio album is pretty shit.  Yes, it was their lowest point in their career, but he allowed the Maiden name to continue.  They kept going as a band which in turn lead to the reunion era.  Almost like the Blaze era had to happen to get what we have gotten from the band in the last 21 years.

Blaze is a cool guy, and I feel bad for him, but Stratton is getting a gift.  By his own admission he wasn't a good fit. 

If they do get in - not holding my breath - there WILL be people that show up.  Di'Anno will be there, as will Stratton. Why the fuck not?

SO at that point, if I'm Steve Harris, I have to go.  If Steve goes, so will Nicko and Dave, at least. 

[wolfking]

Dave is almost as obliged as Steve is IMO.  Bruce too.

[pg1067]

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that, even if the hall of fame inducts them (which is unlikely), Steve and Bruce might go "No way, fuck off." and not show up.

Have there been any bands that were invited to their induction but declined?

Sex Pistols.  They sent their "regrets" in the form of this letter, which Jann Wenner read aloud on stage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdnQEQhDzUc ):

If they do get in - not holding my breath - there WILL be people that show up.  Di'Anno will be there, as will Stratton. Why the fuck not?

Well...if the Sex Pistols letter is an indication, there's a price to be paid, and I have my doubts whether they could scrape together the money (Di'Anno's crowd funding effort to raise 20k British pounds to fund a knee surgery has only raised 6,341 pounds so far - https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/kastro-carthorses-2 ).

[cramx3]

He played on the legendary debult album.

But very little consider the debut "legendary" albeit it was their first so I get the importance, but he was not very significant to the influence and almost all of their known music.  So if Blaze is off, which I agree, I think he should, but I'm not upset or holding it against him personally.

[gazinwales]

Had no idea about PDA medical need and his situation with his knee.
Surely the IM family could reach out and get him sorted out?

[425]

I'd be okay with Blaze not being included, even though I really, really think he deserves it, if not for the fact that Stratton was being included. Unless I'm very, very wrong, Stratton was in the band for a very short time and did not write much if any music or contribute significantly to the development of the band. They wanted Adrian, he said no, they hired Stratton, he recorded one album with them, then they went back to Adrian and he said yes. Blaze was there for five years and wrote a ton of music.

Nothing against Stratton, I'm indifferent to whether he's inducted as its own issue. But to have him and not Blaze is manifestly unjust.

[Anguyen92]

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that, even if the hall of fame inducts them (which is unlikely), Steve and Bruce might go "No way, fuck off." and not show up.

Have there been any bands that were invited to their induction but declined?

I believe Eddie and Alex Van Halen and David Lee Roth was not there when Van Halen got inducted.

[TAC]

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that, even if the hall of fame inducts them (which is unlikely), Steve and Bruce might go "No way, fuck off." and not show up.

Have there been any bands that were invited to their induction but declined?

I believe Eddie and Alex Van Halen and David Lee Roth was not there when Van Halen got inducted.

Really? Wow.

So Steve should send Dennis and Blaze to accept the honor.

[WildRanger]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

[WildRanger]

I agree with all that, except Di'Anno. They have a thing for vocalists.  If Rod Evans from Deep Purple gets in, so does Paul Di'Anno.  That was my "logic" (though I agree with you on the "sensible thing" idea.)

And you're right; there's no way they get in this year.

Why do you think so? Masses of fans will vote for them and they will get in.
If Rush got in HOF in 2013 due to their fans why wouldn't Iron Maiden make it in 2021?

And you think RATM will get in before IM, they will get more votes? Come on. Iron Maiden is a bigger band than RATM.

[MirrorMask]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

Uh, absolutely not. Do you think that he has an uninterrupted 30 years tenure with the band just because he can swing a guitar on stage? Bruce left. Adrian left. Even Dave Murray left, for a short time. Janick never did, he was always there and I assume Steve rewards loyalty. There was no NEED to have three guitars for the reunion, they could have booted him, but they wanted to keep him, and again, it's not just because he prances around on stage.

A band also needs the correct balance between their members. I believe it was Adrian that said "it wouldn't have worked if we were three Ritchie Blackmores", and anyway Adrian would have been the one to go if the three guitars thing didn't work. Getting rid of Janick was never an option, Adrian would have gone if the reunion didn't work.

For all we know - and maybe some super die hard fans might know this - Janick is the cool personality in the band that serves as a bridge between Steve and Bruce (and Rod maybe), the mediator, the one that hold it all together or at the very least, help to not make it fall apart. And he's not along for the ride, he's a songwriter and helped to create many post-reunion great songs.

Criticize his playing style and accurancy all you want, but realize that you don't stay for 30 years straight in the biggest metal band of the world just because you can jump around on stage. If he's still there and never left and never was at risk, there are reasons.

[MarkFitDT]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

Uh, absolutely not. Do you think that he has an uninterrupted 30 years tenure with the band just because he can swing a guitar on stage? Bruce left. Adrian left. Even Dave Murray left, for a short time. Janick never did, he was always there and I assume Steve rewards loyalty. There was no NEED to have three guitars for the reunion, they could have booted him, but they wanted to keep him, and again, it's not just because he prances around on stage.

A band also needs the correct balance between their members. I believe it was Adrian that said "it wouldn't have worked if we were three Ritchie Blackmores", and anyway Adrian would have been the one to go if the three guitars thing didn't work. Getting rid of Janick was never an option, Adrian would have gone if the reunion didn't work.

For all we know - and maybe some super die hard fans might know this - Janick is the cool personality in the band that serves as a bridge between Steve and Bruce (and Rod maybe), the mediator, the one that hold it all together or at the very least, help to not make it fall apart. And he's not along for the ride, he's a songwriter and helped to create many post-reunion great songs.

Criticize his playing style and accurancy all you want, but realize that you don't stay for 30 years straight in the biggest metal band of the world just because you can jump around on stage. If he's still there and never left and never was at risk, there are reasons.

I'm so glad that scenario didnt happen because for me Maiden without Adrian Smith is levels below Maiden with him in it. This isn't an anti-Janick post because they have written some great music since 2000 with him in the band (some of which he was responsible for) but to me when Smith left the band the quality of music took a massive nosedive - after the run of albums from Iron Maiden to 7th Son I can still remember the shock of listening to NPFTD the first time and how poor it was compared to what they had made before. His song-writing and guitar style is an integral part of Maiden for me so im happy things worked out the way they did.

[WildRanger]

Criticize his playing style and accurancy all you want, but realize that you don't stay for 30 years straight in the biggest metal band of the world just because you can jump around on stage. If he's still there and never left and never was at risk, there are reasons.

I can't say that Janick is a bad guitarist but he is NO Steve Morse. If Steve Morse was the third guitarist in Maiden I wouldn't complain about it at all.

[Stadler]

I agree with all that, except Di'Anno. They have a thing for vocalists.  If Rod Evans from Deep Purple gets in, so does Paul Di'Anno.  That was my "logic" (though I agree with you on the "sensible thing" idea.)

And you're right; there's no way they get in this year.

Why do you think so? Masses of fans will vote for them and they will get in.
If Rush got in HOF in 2013 due to their fans why wouldn't Iron Maiden make it in 2021?

And you think RATM will get in before IM, they will get more votes? Come on. Iron Maiden is a bigger band than RATM.

The fan vote, cumulative, counts as one vote amongst the rest of the people who get a vote.

Look, I'm the minority on this point, but the RnRHoF is a political tool to be wielded by Jann Wenner and his lackeys (yes, I know he's gone now and the new guy has been more open to "pop success" over industry insider cred, but it's still concerned with identity politics dynamics as much as the music).   EVERY press release regarding the nominees lauded the "diversity" and "adventurousness" of the field.   In the past, the Rolling Stone darlings - read those with the right political bona fides - all got in first or second ballot (Pearl Jam, Radiohead, REM, RHCP, Green Day, Nirvana).   So right there, Rage is in (even though this is I think their third time on the ballot); helps that Tom Morello is popular and well-liked.   There is going to be at least one rap/minority in, that's a given.  Jay-Z.  Tina deserves it on her accomplishments anyway, she's legend (she's already in with Ike), but she's got the political cache as well (abuse survivor).  There is ample opportunity with those three to make beau coup political statements during the induction ceremony.   

That leaves two, three max spots.  One of those is the Foo Fighters; I don't get it, personally, bt they are rock royalty.  Grohl does and says all the right things, paying appropriate homage to those that came before (McCartney, Rush), he was in one of the Halls' favorites (Nirvana), and he's an industry guy.  He's in.   I think Todd Rundgren is in as well; his production is enough to get him there, but he's got the cred to cover multiple bases as well.  That leaves one spot for Dionne Warwick, Chaka Khan, The Go-gos, Carole King, and Iron Maiden.   I just don't see a metal band comprised of a bunch of white guys from England who sang "Bring Your Daughter... To The Slaughter" breaking through that.

(And by the way, since I have to:  I don't OBJECT to the Hall putting those other artists in, I just object to the hypocrisy of the Hall; if it's about the music, make it about the music.  Just be honest; if you're going to have a club and make it a club, just admit it.)

[Stadler]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

Uh, absolutely not. Do you think that he has an uninterrupted 30 years tenure with the band just because he can swing a guitar on stage? Bruce left. Adrian left. Even Dave Murray left, for a short time. Janick never did, he was always there and I assume Steve rewards loyalty. There was no NEED to have three guitars for the reunion, they could have booted him, but they wanted to keep him, and again, it's not just because he prances around on stage.

A band also needs the correct balance between their members. I believe it was Adrian that said "it wouldn't have worked if we were three Ritchie Blackmores", and anyway Adrian would have been the one to go if the three guitars thing didn't work. Getting rid of Janick was never an option, Adrian would have gone if the reunion didn't work.

For all we know - and maybe some super die hard fans might know this - Janick is the cool personality in the band that serves as a bridge between Steve and Bruce (and Rod maybe), the mediator, the one that hold it all together or at the very least, help to not make it fall apart. And he's not along for the ride, he's a songwriter and helped to create many post-reunion great songs.

Criticize his playing style and accurancy all you want, but realize that you don't stay for 30 years straight in the biggest metal band of the world just because you can jump around on stage. If he's still there and never left and never was at risk, there are reasons.

I've made fun of him before - during the first song or so in Hartford, he spent half the song shaking his guitar chord like a whip rather than playing - but I think this is definitely a case of "he brings stuff to the table that you don't see on stage".   I think he IS a buffer of sorts between Steve and Bruce, though I also think Steve and Bruce get along better now than they ever did.  Youth, mortality and all that.   I'm a Dave guy, first and foremost, then Adrian, then Jannick, but I can't complain; I LIKE what Maiden has become since the reunion, and gun to head, I might even say I prefer the reunion years over the classic years.  I listen to Maiden a lot, relatively, they're one of my favorite bands ever, but I definitely prefer the dynamic of the six of them over the dynamic of the five of them, musically.   And they are one of only a handful of bands that I now go see just because.   I'm on sort of a bucket list tour with concerts (I really don't need to see Aerosmith again, for example) but Maiden I go just because it's goddamn fun.

[425]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

He wrote The Legacy and The Talisman, so, no, absolutely not, the complete opposite of that.

[NoseofNicko]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

He wrote some of their best post-reunion songs. Definitely not filler.

[Lupton]

The way they make the 3 guitar thing work live is REALLY interesting. The show has to be mapped out to the point where the sound guy knows when to turn Janick up or down. Like when he jumps up on the monitor to take a solo he has to go up in the mix, At other times when Jan's goofing and swinging his guitar around he gets taken out of the mix.  I guess my point is...it's all rehearsed so they can deliver a consistent show every night.

And of course the crowd LOVES Janick's antics. General audiences eat that stuff up.   

[wolfking]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

That guy is "FILLER" in the band! 

I hope this is sarcasm.

[DoctorAction]

I find Janick to be a particularly annoying stage presence and I don't like his solo style. But he has writing credits on many of my favourite tracks on later albums:

Man On The Edge
Ghost Of The Navigator
Out Of The Silent Planet
Montsegur
Dance Of Death
The Alchemist
The Talisman (best Maiden track since 7th Son?)
The Book Of Souls

Wow. I'm going to make that into a Spotify playlist right now.

[425]

Outside of the big, obvious ones on that list, I think Out of the Silent Planet is a really good song that's unique in the Maiden discography. I've always wondered why people didn't talk about it more.

[ozzy554]

I find Janick to be a particularly annoying stage presence and I don't like his solo style. But he has writing credits on many of my favourite tracks on later albums:

Man On The Edge
Ghost Of The Navigator
Out Of The Silent Planet
Montsegur
Dance Of Death
The Alchemist
The Talisman (best Maiden track since 7th Son?)
The Book Of Souls

Wow. I'm going to make that into a Spotify playlist right now.

All that and I'd add Legacy, 2 AM, The unbeliever and Como Estais Amigos to my list.

[Mladen]

You must be forgetting Dream of mirrors. I'd also add Gates of tomorrow and The Pilgrim, two very unterrated short tracks.