The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Mladen]

If Maiden makes it into the hall of fame, I would sort of get a kick out of seeing all of the current and former band members (from 1980 onwards, at least) at the ceremony. But then again, given the pandemic, there might be no ceremony. And there might be no chance the guys want to show up at the event. And there might be no chance Maiden makes it in. So yeah, I'm indifferent.

[Stadler]

At first I though "wow, what an easy schedule, they're a shoo-in", but further analysis says no.

Givens:
- Tina Turner
- Rage Against The Machine
- Foo Fighters

So that leaves two, maybe three spots.   You've got Jay-Z, Dionne Warwick, Todd Rundgren, and Carole King.   I can't see the "Bring Your Daughter... To The Slaughter" band getting in over more identity politics-friendly choices, at least not in this environment. 

Bummer, since I think they are probably one of the two or three biggest "snubs" at this point (why Phil Collins and Robert Fripp aren't in the HoF baffles, continually).

If by some miraculous alignment of the planets they do get in, I say it's Harris, Dickinson, Murray, Smith, McBrain, Di'Anno, Burr, Gers.   Blaze and Dennis Stratton get left on the cutting room floor.

[faizoff]

Didn't they leave Blaze on good terms? I imagine he'd be in seeing as he's on two studio albums.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Didn't they leave Blaze on good terms? I imagine he'd be in seeing as he's on two studio albums.

 I think Dennis and Blaze should be there. Dennis was on the debut, and Blaze did TWO albums. nd yes, Blaze is always vocal about how "Maiden took very good care of me".

[Stadler]

Didn't they leave Blaze on good terms? I imagine he'd be in seeing as he's on two studio albums.

Ron Dio was on four Sabbath albums, resurrected their career, and....  not in.

Eric Carr was on seven Kiss albums, widely credited with helping to resurrect their career, and... not in.

AC/DC:  Mark Evans was on four albums, Simon Wright two and Chris Slade one, and...  not in.

The only bands that get full suite of membership are the ones in the "club" (Reeves Gabrels got in with The Cure, and to my knowledge, he's the touring guitarist, having appeared on only one single with the band).  Even Tom Constantin and Robert Hunter got in with the Dead, and with the E Street Band - who got in on their own accord, believe it or not - I'm pretty sure the first drummer's mom's cleaning lady got in too.

The jury is out with regards to who makes the call; Paul Stanley has pointed the finger at the Hall itself, but it seems like there IS some negotiation involved (AC/DC, Red Hot Chili Peppers).

[pg1067]

Unless things have changed, the RRHOF decides which band members are included, NOT the band (although the band does get input).  For example, when KISS went in, only the original members were included, much to the chagrin of Stanley and Simmons.  There are many other examples of this.

The dust up with Blondie was not a matter of who got inducted.  All of the members of the line up that did the songs everyone knows from the late 70s and early 80s were included.  The dust up came when a couple of the original (?) members wanted to play with the then-current incarnation of the band and Debbie Harry refused to allow it (presumably with the backing of the RRHOF).  If I remember correctly, it was quite an uncomfortable scene.

My guess if that, if Maiden makes it in, it will be Murray, Harris, Dickinson, Smith, McBrain and MAYBE Gers, Burr and DiAnno.  Stratton and Bayley will not be part of it.

[MirrorMask]

If Di'Anno gets it, Stratton should as well. They both were on the debut.

Clive was on The Number of the Beast which is a point in his favor.

[RodrigoAltaf]

 If Maiden plays it safe as usual, it will be only the six guys in the current lineup. Which is a shame, because the coolest thing about the RRHOF is previous members of bands getting together again. Even if they don't play, it's cool to see. When Deep Purple was inducted there were pictures of Glenn Hughes, Coverdale and Gillan together, possibly for the first time ever.

[Stadler]

If Maiden plays it safe as usual, it will be only the six guys in the current lineup. Which is a shame, because the coolest thing about the RRHOF is previous members of bands getting together again. Even if they don't play, it's cool to see. When Deep Purple was inducted there were pictures of Glenn Hughes, Coverdale and Gillan together, possibly for the first time ever.

But to PG's point, there was guff from Big Ian (Gillan; Paice is "Little Ian") about who performed.  He wanted only the current incarnation to play (like Debbie).  It was also a HUGE miss that they not induct Steve Morse with them.  That's an epic fail (though Rod Evans gets in). That precedent bodes well for Di'Anno, but not so well for Janick. 

[nobloodyname]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

[Ben_Jamin]

I see no reason why Janick wouldn't be included. He is on how many albums, and is currently touring with the band. And hasn't left since it's reunion. He has also written songs.

[El Barto]

People continually miss the point about the RRHoF. It doesn't exit to do the sensible or honorable thing. It doesn't exist to commemorate RnR legends. It exists to reward a couple of personal favorites, and mostly to generate discussion and debate. You do that by doing the non-sensible thing. Including RJD with Sabbath was the obvious thing. Leaving him out caused people to bitch about how idiotic the hall is, and that's what they want. They're fully aware that there's no such thing as bad publicity.

In this case, firstly, they won't be getting in this year. Second, there's no chance in hell of Dianno and Stratton getting in. There's a small chance of Clive and Janick getting in, but omitting them is probably the controversial decision they're itching to make. There's a pretty good chance that Arry tells them to piss off when they exclude them. There's an excellent chance that Bruce lambasts the whole thing when given a mic. I've been there to see him badmouth his hosts before and I know how willing he is to speak his mind.

And most importantly, who gives a fuck? I made the decision long ago to not play their game. It's a joke and it capitalizes on being a joke. No reason to give it the slightest bit of consideration, which is what it craves.

[Stadler]

I agree with all that, except Di'Anno. They have a thing for vocalists.  If Rod Evans from Deep Purple gets in, so does Paul Di'Anno.  That was my "logic" (though I agree with you on the "sensible thing" idea.)

And you're right; there's no way they get in this year.  My pick: Tina, Foo Fighters, Jay-Z, Rage Against The Machine, Carole King and Todd Rundgren.

(I also predict that Maiden and Priest will now swap every other year as "token metal acts" on the nomination list.)

[RodrigoAltaf]

I agree with all that, except Di'Anno. They have a thing for vocalists.  If Rod Evans from Deep Purple gets in, so does Paul Di'Anno.  That was my "logic" (though I agree with you on the "sensible thing" idea.)

And you're right; there's no way they get in this year.  My pick: Tina, Foo Fighters, Jay-Z, Rage Against The Machine, Carole King and Todd Rundgren.

(I also predict that Maiden and Priest will now swap every other year as "token metal acts" on the nomination list.)

Gary didn't get in with Van Halen...

[Kwyjibo]

And most importantly, who gives a fuck?

Quoted for truth.

[Anguyen92]

I agree with all that, except Di'Anno. They have a thing for vocalists.  If Rod Evans from Deep Purple gets in, so does Paul Di'Anno.  That was my "logic" (though I agree with you on the "sensible thing" idea.)

And you're right; there's no way they get in this year.  My pick: Tina, Foo Fighters, Jay-Z, Rage Against The Machine, Carole King and Todd Rundgren.

(I also predict that Maiden and Priest will now swap every other year as "token metal acts" on the nomination list.)

Gary didn't get in with Van Halen...

I think Stadler was referring to the 1st vocalists in a band, not the 3rd.  So in this case, Gary did not get in with Van Halen and most likely, Blaze probably wouldn't get in with Iron Maiden.

[pg1067]

There is literally zero chance Maiden would allow Janick to be excluded.

Sure...if Maiden got to make the call, which they don't.  The only thing they can do if they don't like who is included/excluded is not show up for the ceremony.

I see no reason why Janick wouldn't be included. He is on how many albums, and is currently touring with the band. And hasn't left since it's reunion. He has also written songs.

You mean like there was no reason not to induct Tony Banks or Geoff Downes as part of Yes?  Just like there was no reason not to induct Steve Morse as part of Deep Purple.  Just like there was no reason not to induct Dio as part of Black Sabbath.  Etc., etc.

As far as Gers goes, the reason is pretty obvious:  he didn't play on any of the band's early or seminal albums.


Again, opining about what's likely based on what the band would or wouldn't do or what fans of the band would do is pointless.

[425]

What Jan has going for him is longevity and the status of Fear of the Dark (the song) as kind of a latter-day classic. I wouldn't put it past the RRHOF at all to exclude him, but at least he has that.

In my opinion, in Maiden's case, it should be everyone who appeared on a studio album, which would be the current lineup plus Stratton, Burr, Di'Anno and Blaze. But I think out of the former members, it's only Clive who has a substantial shot, due to appearing on one of their two most iconic albums.

And though the thread has moved past this onto HOF talk: Thank you to those who shared their thoughts on Blaze's albums. I think I might look into that recent trilogy since they're all still readily available, but I'll also keep an eye out for Promise and Terror and The Man Who Would Not Die.

[pg1067]

What Jan has going for him is longevity and the status of Fear of the Dark (the song) as kind of a latter-day classic. I wouldn't put it past the RRHOF at all to exclude him, but at least he has that.

I don't know that a nearly 30 year old song can be called a "latter-day classic," but I think every word of this is logical.  Unfortunately...logic went out the window pretty quickly with the RRHOF.

In my opinion, in Maiden's case, it should be everyone who appeared on a studio album, which would be the current lineup plus Stratton, Burr, Di'Anno and Blaze. But I think out of the former members, it's only Clive who has a substantial shot, due to appearing on one of their two most iconic albums.

I'd say everyone except Stratton and Bayley.  Stratton just wasn't a significant enough player in the band's history for a sufficient amount of time, and Bayley was really nothing but a replacement player until Dickinson returned.  Even the band has eschewed playing any songs from the two Bayley albums for most of the last 20 years.

Ultimately, I doubt we'll ever find out.

[425]

With FOTD, I meant "latter-day" in the sense that it came after the run of albums that is widely acknowledged as their classic period.

I think Blaze has a much stronger case than Stratton, who wasn't even in the band for a year, and likely had very little creative input during that time, since most of the debut had already been written by the time he joined. Blaze was around for five years and officially co-wrote nine songs. I don't think either has a chance, but if I had to evaluate the case for each, that's what I'd say.

[Stadler]

With FOTD, I meant "latter-day" in the sense that it came after the run of albums that is widely acknowledged as their classic period.

I think Blaze has a much stronger case than Stratton, who wasn't even in the band for a year, and likely had very little creative input during that time, since most of the debut had already been written by the time he joined. Blaze was around for five years and officially co-wrote nine songs. I don't think either has a chance, but if I had to evaluate the case for each, that's what I'd say.

It's not that I disagree with you, but evidence suggests that your "logic" isn't of interest to the Hall.  I think El Barto said it best, but if Ronnie Dio, arguably one of the three greatest singers in heavy metal history, doesn't get in with Sabbath - wrote and toured two complete albums, resurrecting the band in a very real way - and Eric Carr doesn't get in with Kiss - by all accounts he saved the band when Peter Criss failed, AND died tragically before his time - then if I'm Blaze, I'm not holding my breath.

[cramx3]

Gers has been in the band for over 30 years, it would make 0 sense not to include him. Is there any example of a band member for that many years and also currently in the band not being included?

I would expect the current line up included, no one else if they get the nod.

Honestly, I hope the fans vote them in just for Bruce to give an epic speech telling the RnR HOF to fuck off and they dont need nor want anything to do with that abomination.

[MirrorMask]

Gers has been in the band for over 30 years, it would make 0 sense not to include him. Is there any example of a band member for that many years and also currently in the band not being included?

Steve Morse I believe.

[ozzy554]

New Blaze song dropped quietly on spotify. Sounds like something off his last 3. Not a knock on it by any means as I thought the Infinite Entanglement trilogy was a lot of fun. His solo work is usually pretty solid. Only album of his that I don't particularly care for is The King of Metal.

[425]

It's not that I disagree with you, but evidence suggests that your "logic" isn't of interest to the Hall.  I think El Barto said it best, but if Ronnie Dio, arguably one of the three greatest singers in heavy metal history, doesn't get in with Sabbath - wrote and toured two complete albums, resurrecting the band in a very real way - and Eric Carr doesn't get in with Kiss - by all accounts he saved the band when Peter Criss failed, AND died tragically before his time - then if I'm Blaze, I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, I totally agree, and I tried to convey in my post that I was just talking about what it should be, not what I would expect it to be. In terms of what I expect, I would just be crossing my fingers that they don't snub Janick.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Gers has been in the band for over 30 years, it would make 0 sense not to include him. Is there any example of a band member for that many years and also currently in the band not being included?

Billy Sherwood of Yes. He started working with the band in 1989, and was an official member for two albums/tours in the late '90s. He was also part of Yes when they were inducted to the Hall of Fame in 2017.

[pg1067]

I think Blaze has a much stronger case than Stratton, who wasn't even in the band for a year, and likely had very little creative input during that time, since most of the debut had already been written by the time he joined. Blaze was around for five years and officially co-wrote nine songs. I don't think either has a chance, but if I had to evaluate the case for each, that's what I'd say.

Ultimately, this is like saying a 300:1 horse is better than a 325:1 horse.  Is it true?  Maybe, but neither horse is going to win.

Gers has been in the band for over 30 years, it would make 0 sense not to include him. Is there any example of a band member for that many years and also currently in the band not being included?

Yeah...the one I cited earlier:  Steve Morse in Deep Purple.  It wasn't quite 30 years, but he was a then (and still) current member of the band and had been around for 22 years.  And, while you might not think it's sufficient not to include him, it is logical to say that Gers didn't play on Maiden's most popular/influential albums.  IF (and it's a big "if") Maiden gets in, it's not going to be because of Dance of Death or The Talisman.  IF they get it, it will be because of The Number of the Beast, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and the massive influence of those 1980s albums (none of which Gers played on).

Do I think he SHOULD get in (if Maiden gets in)?  Yes, absolutely and for all of the reasons you mentioned.  But what I think "should" happen and what is likely to happen are very different things, and there are logical reasons not to include him.

[cramx3]

You all may be right, I'm not arguing.  But I'd like to think that the reunion era is a big reason why they are finally getting nominated too.   They are still huge, making new music that sells really well, and are one of the most popular metal bands still today consistently selling shit tons of tickets to live shows.  Gers has been on half their albums but been in the band longer than half the bands lifetime.  He also writes music for the band as well.  I mean, if the hall wants controversy, they could omit him, but it really makes little sense IMO.  I guess if they did omit him, it would be even more fuel for Bruce to light on fire when he gets to publicly accept or not accept the invite.

[kaos2900]

It's despicable that they're not already in. I already think the Rock Hall of Fame is stupid and worthless, but if they don't get in over some of the others it will reach an even lower level worthlessness.

[425]

Yeah...the one I cited earlier:  Steve Morse in Deep Purple.  It wasn't quite 30 years, but he was a then (and still) current member of the band and had been around for 22 years.  And, while you might not think it's sufficient not to include him, it is logical to say that Gers didn't play on Maiden's most popular/influential albums.  IF (and it's a big "if") Maiden gets in, it's not going to be because of Dance of Death or The Talisman.  IF they get it, it will be because of The Number of the Beast, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and the massive influence of those 1980s albums (none of which Gers played on).

Do I think he SHOULD get in (if Maiden gets in)?  Yes, absolutely and for all of the reasons you mentioned.  But what I think "should" happen and what is likely to happen are very different things, and there are logical reasons not to include him.

This is why I think if Janick does get in, the decisive factor will be the song Fear of the Dark. Does it rise to the level of Run to the Hills, The Trooper, and Aces High? No, but it's a fairly well-known Maiden song that I'd wager has massively more recognition among the sort of people who decide things at RRHOF than anything else on any of the Janick albums. The Wicker Man is probably the very, very distant second-place.

I suppose one could also mention Bring Your Daughter... to the Slaughter being their only UK #1 single, but I have a hard time imagining even the people at the RRHOF caring about that.

[faizoff]

Interesting to read about how the hall is more in control of the band members who get included. In the example of Nine Inch Nails, it's always been Trent Reznor as the main writer and band member with a somewhat rotating cast of players for the tours and studio recordings. Only recently did Attticus Ross become a full member and even as such the only official members are listed as Trent and Atticus, yet in their induction there are 5 other people. 3 of them in the current live band and 2 who were there just at the beginning. I wonder how they figured that out.

[kirksnosehair]

No offense intended to anyone here discussing this topic but the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.  They've expanded the term "Rock and Roll" to the point where we might as well consider my fucking bellybutton lint to be "Rock and Roll"  FUCK THEM.  It's a tossup for me which I care about more, the RaRHoF or this period > . <  I'll have to get back to you.

[Stadler]

Interesting to read about how the hall is more in control of the band members who get included. In the example of Nine Inch Nails, it's always been Trent Reznor as the main writer and band member with a somewhat rotating cast of players for the tours and studio recordings. Only recently did Attticus Ross become a full member and even as such the only official members are listed as Trent and Atticus, yet in their induction there are 5 other people. 3 of them in the current live band and 2 who were there just at the beginning. I wonder how they figured that out.

Coin flip. 

[425]

I'd say the main reason to be interested in the RnRHOF is that it at least potentially exposes artists to a wider audience. Probably not so much when it comes to really big names like Led Zeppelin or Guns N' Roses, but with some of the choices that don't currently have as much mainstream popularity, like Yes.

I certainly don't think anything of the RnRHOF's aesthetic judgments or their selection criteria, which have long been moronic.

[Stadler]

I'd say the main reason to be interested in the RnRHOF is that it at least potentially exposes artists to a wider audience. Probably not so much when it comes to really big names like Led Zeppelin or Guns N' Roses, but with some of the choices that don't currently have as much mainstream popularity, like Yes.

I certainly don't think anything of the RnRHOF's aesthetic judgments or their selection criteria, which have long been moronic.

This is all true, but for a contrarian iconoclast like me, the air of superiority makes me want to slash the seat cushions.  That Dave Marsh actually thinks his taste is something special or something to be celebrated burns my ass (this is the guy that has written like 100 books on Bruce Springsteen, and once famously said that Kiss would get in the Hall over his dead body. He also said John Bonham was an "insurmountable flaw" in Zeppelin, and was "clinically incompetent".)