The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[jjrock88]

I think it got discontinued about 15 years ago. Not sure if it was just a Canadian magazine but it was always available at HMV. I would usually buy it, but it typically had too much growlie shit inside for my liking. But boy does Martin Popoff know his rock and metal. He’s an encyclopedia

[TAC]

I have a few of his books.

[jjrock88]

I would pay to see a rock/metal jeopardy round between Martin and Brent

[Stadler]

Honestly I think Steve envisions the band playing large stadiums and he recognizes the choruses to be chant alongs.

Boom.  Nailed it completely. 

[Stadler]

Just off the cuff, and in chronological order; there are some controversial picks here, but I didn't place them there for that reason:

Strange World
Murders In The Rue Morgue
Another Life*
Children Of The Damned
Number Of The Beast
Hallowed Be Thy Name*
Total Eclipse*
Where Eagles Dare*
Still Life
Back In The Village*
Rime Of The Ancient Mariner*
Stranger In A Strange Land
The Clairvoyant*
Tailgunner
From Here To Eternity*
Afraid To Shoot Strangers
Sign Of The Cross
The Angel And The Gambler
Wildest Dreams
Journeyman*
For The Greater Good Of God (sort of a reprentative of a couple songs on the record)
Isle Of Avalon
The Man Who Would Be King
If Eternity Should Fail*
The Red And The Black

The * are likely top 10 songs.

[MirrorMask]

And today, 20th of May: happy birthday to Blaze Bayley and to BRAVE NEW WORLD! 

Unreal to think that, discography-wise, the reunion era was beginning this day TWENTY years ago!

[jjrock88]

And today, 20th of May: happy birthday to Blaze Bayley and to BRAVE NEW WORLD! 

Unreal to think that, discography-wise, the reunion era was beginning this day TWENTY years ago!

Brave New World is still my favorite of the reunion albums 

Wicker Man (Running Wild)......what a riff!

[bosk1]

The Final Frontier
Dance Of Death
Book Of Souls
AMOLAD
Brave New World

Wow, that's my EXACT order.  And TFF is my all-time favorite Maiden album.

Would there be interest in a thread where people took turns doing lists of top 50 (or top xx) Iron Maiden songs? Inspired by the recent activity in this topic, I've been assembling a list of my own, and it's made me realize that there are a lot of different ways one could go with a ranking and at least make a convincing argument for it. Could be pretty interesting to see what different people come up with.

We have a really good top 25 thread.  It's a really fun read (personally, I think it really gets good starting around page 11).  I recommend continuing from that one (and just doing as many songs as you like instead of limiting to 25).  But that's only my personal opinion.  If you want to start a new one and do top 50, have at it. 

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36365.0

[425]

Thank you for reminding me of that thread. I think I'd prefer to start a new one, just for this reason: The OP on that thread is Scorpion, who unfortunately hasn't been present very much on the forum recently. I'd like to be able to manage the OP and thread title to incorporate different people's lists (like putting who is currently ranking in the thread title, and links to the starts of different lists and maybe at some point a composite top 10 in the OP). However, I will link to that thread in the OP of the one I make, and include those lists if I do end up doing a composite top 10 or similar.

Assuming no objections to that, I will probably put up the thread later tonight.

[wolfking]

And today, 20th of May: happy birthday to Blaze Bayley and to BRAVE NEW WORLD! 

Unreal to think that, discography-wise, the reunion era was beginning this day TWENTY years ago!

29th mate. 

[Zook]

My introduction to Iron Maiden was actually through Fozzy, but it was a while before I finally checked them out. It wouldn't be until I walked into a comic store and was introduced to Iced Earth. I believe I bought Dance of Death and The Glorious Burden on the same day. I didn't much care for Dance of Death, so my next IM purchase was Rock in Rio, and then I think it was Brave New World. I listened to BNW the other day, and aside from the repetitive choruses, it still holds up really well.

The Rock in Rio versions are the superior versions though.

[Lupton]

I just wanted to get this off my chest regarding Virtual IX and this seems like the place to do it. Virtual IX is really oddball. Doesn't help that the guitar sound suffers from the way it was recorded. I don't think they had yet figured out the best way to do guitar recording with the "new" computer setup. When I 1st got this album, I recall only really liking a few of the songs and thinking that everything else was really poor to terrible. I actually hated, loathed with a passion "Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger". I just thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. That awkward "om pah" middle section (what is this? metal polka?). That cheesy synth tone over the verses. Ugg I just hated it! Well about 4 months back when I was going through the Maiden catalog when I listened to DLttEoaS something clicked (I think it was the vocal melody) and finally everything "fit" together. I found myself thinking "hey this is not too bad." I actually sort of enjoyed it. Shortly afterward, whenever I heard the song in my head it sounded better each time. Now I can say I absolutely love that song! Everything about it just works for me now. I've completely done a 180 from hating it loving it. In comparison, all the other songs on the album sounded much better too. The only one which still sucks balls is "The Angel and the Gambler". It's never going to improve with age as it hasn't gotten any better for me.

So summing up (tr;dr version): I can enjoy Virtual IX as long as I skip track 2. I'd recommend to anyone, try listening to the whole thing through omitting just that one dreaded track and it's a brand new album. All the other songs come to life in a different way. Yes it's true, one song can ruin an entire album. Just the memory of that song will sour your whole listening experience.

[wolfking]

Educated Fool is another strong highlight, but Stranger is nice. 

'Om pah' section.    that's bloody brilliant.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I bought Virtual XI when it came out, and went from completely hating it to simply pretending it doesn't exist. Totally not worth anyone's time.

[425]

I'm a big Virtual XI fan, and I'm even a fan of The Angel and the Gambler. There are plenty of worse Iron Maiden songs on plenty of better-loved albums. The Angel and the Gambler's only sin is that there is too much of it. What there is is good and just needs to be in a smaller package.

[nobloodyname]

I bought Virtual XI when it came out, and went from completely hating it to simply pretending it doesn't exist. Totally not worth anyone's time.

Well, clearly it is.

I've always enjoyed the entirety of Virtual XI. And I'm with 425 on The Angel and the Gambler (although it's certainly too repetitive and too long).

[Evermind]

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think Iiii'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Man I just listened to this song again and why

[jammindude]

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think Iiii'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Man I just listened to this song again and why

Is that even half of it?

Seriously, it’s almost hard for me to fathom everyone that had to sit in the control room and not one person having the balls to look over at Steve and just say, “Ya know Steve...don’t you think this might be a bit much?”

[Lupton]

Well let's actually examine the album track by track:
Futureal - Pretty solid cut. It's only crime is sounding a bit too similar to the superior Deja-Vu. Still really not a big deal as Maiden makes a regular habit out of recycling similar riffs and motifs. It just part of their thing. It's been my opinion for some time that you have to accept this approach as "canon" to evenhandedly appraise the entirety of this band's output in any case.
Lightning Strikes Twice - Another solid tune with nice dynamics -- slow atmospheric intro into punchy rocker. Follows pretty well after Futureal*. Worst thing about this one is the chorus: [singing the guitar line] "Strikes Twice!!" [singing the guitar line] "Strikes Twice!!" [singing the guitar line] "Strikes Twice!!" [singing the guitar line] "Strikes Twice!!" It's pretty damn clunky, but doesn't actually ruin the song for me. I dig it. Cool Murray tune.
The Clansman - Actually a good song. Really captures the epic, sweeping cinematic scope of its source inspiration. Pity they ended up calling it what they did. I suppose "I am the Highlander!" just wouldn't have had the same zing.
When Two Worlds Collide - Blaze sounds a bit like Tate doing the softer stuff in the intro doesn't he? Now I admit, this song's a bit underwhelming but is short enough that it doesn't wear out its welcome (something I can't say about >50% of reunion era material). I don't skip it however as I find it still has some charm.
The Educated Fool - Another actual good song only dragged down by the length of the final chorus. Cut that last chorus in half and you have a solid winner.
Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger - See my previous post upthread for more on this. Really a strange tune which is much quirkier than anything the band's done before. I've come to really enjoy this one for what it does now. Even that slow repetitious section works (IMHO) because it builds up with each repetition. It's actually taking us on a little journey from light to more intense -- so it has an actual function in the song other than to bore**.
Como Estais Amigos - This is a great underrated song. A minor (dare I say) ballad with a powerful epic and emotive middle section. Can't really say anything bad about this one. Nice album closer and wonderful little sentimental piece. Not overbloated either.

*I'm sticking with my assertion in my prior post that you have to skip/ignore track 2. No offense intended to those people who actually *shudder* like the song!?!?
**Repetitive chorus are a big drawback with a lot of reunion era material. And yes, it does drag down many a reunion era song too. The difference is Bruce has the charisma and vocal character to pull this sort of shit off, while Blaze is a bit out of his depth trying to make this work most of the time. Could you imagine Blaze singing: "No More Lies! No More Lies! No More Lies! No More Lies!" It's still annoying as hell with Bruce, but with Blaze I'd imagine it would be brutal fucking torture. Not meant as knock against Blaze, who has his own (not always utilized) strengths as a singer. He's just not suited to repeating the same damn line over and over. Bruce can almost pull it off for a lot of the reunion era material. Unfortunately it still makes too many potentially good songs on the last 5 albums a chore to wade through.

Note: After reading other posts following mine it became obvious to me that I got the roman numerals backward in my prior post! An honest mistake. Roman numerals throw me for a loop. I meant Virtual XI.

[MirrorMask]

There's not much difference between Lightning Strikes Twice and No More Lies, they're two examples of many of those kinds of songs in the band's catalog.

LST's chorus should have had at the very least a minor difference IMO, just ending the last line with "strikes".

Maybe lightning STRIKES TWICE
Maybe lightning STRIKES TWICE
Maybe lightning STRIKES TWICE
Maybe lightning STRIKES!!!

IT doesn't save the song but at least it changes a bit, and is also something you can let the audience sing.

And Futureal and The Clansman are awesome songs.

[Lupton]

Actually there is a big difference (to my ears at least) in that "Strikes Twice" are two words that are not sung but shouted. By comparison "No More Lies" is sung with each syllable getting a specific intoned note. That's what makes the former so awkward: he's singing then shouting, singing then shouting. Doesn't really work.

But I get what you're saying about giving the crowd something to chant along with live. Just always seems redundant when listening to the studio album. [edit: in regards to the many songs which contain repetitive choruses]

[further edit: just to be clear its not repetition which I find annoying about LST. It's the mixed singing/shouting nature of the delivery. LST is not what I'd consider an example of an overly repetitive chorus as it goes by fairly quickly]

[Zantera]

For me 'modern Maiden' (2000s forward but you can add Virtual XI) suffers a bit from a similar thing modern Metallica has suffered from where you have songs that are clearly 5 minute songs in terms of ideas but stretched out to 7, 8 or even 9 minutes. I will agree that The Angel and the Gambler isn't even that bad, heck maybe even pretty decent, but it's clearly not enough ideas to warrant the length. I know it has become pretty much a meme for the whole Blaze Bailey era and it definitely summarizes in 1 song one of the main 'flaws' with the band's songwriting in the 'modern' times but I don't think it's THAT bad.

I guess overall Virtual XI and The X Factor are kinda easily ignored but I would put both The Clansman and The Sign of the Cross in my top15 Maiden songs so I think there's still gems to be found for sure.

 

[jammindude]

I actually hate the Bruce songs that do it too. That’s the main reason I find BNW to be the weakest of the reunion albums. Too many repetitive choruses.

Repeating the title of the song 4 times is lazy, but tolerable. Doing it 8 or more times gets tedious.  I think there’s only one glaring offender on AMOLAD, which is why it’s my favorite.

[TAC]

Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger is awesome. I mean, my only complaint is there are way too many "Don't Look to"'s. But that manic instrumental part is one of their coolest things in their discog. I was blown away when I first heard that. It was something really different for them.

At first I feel the vibe is a bit to close to Fear Of The Dark, but there is so much goodness in that song.

The live version is really cool.

[Zantera]

I actually hate the Bruce songs that do it too. That’s the main reason I find BNW to be the weakest of the reunion albums. Too many repetitive choruses.

Repeating the title of the song 4 times is lazy, but tolerable. Doing it 8 or more times gets tedious.  I think there’s only one glaring offender on AMOLAD, which is why it’s my favorite.

Great post!

I actually agree pretty much 100%. When I got into Maiden in the mid 00s, Brave New World was talked among people I knew as one of their best and this fantastic return to form. I never really saw that. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good album and it has some good songs on it. However compared to AMOLAD which is my favorite out of the reunion albums, that one has long songs but for the most part they all actually feel like long songs where the length of the song was determined by making the song as great as it could be - and not stretching a short song out to make it more 'epic'. When I think about Brave New World I think almost entirely about songs with repeated choruses. Dream of Mirrors and Blood Brothers are EASILY as big offenders of this as The Angel and the Gambler.

[Stadler]

I say this respectfully, since most of this is "taste", but I think SOME of the criticism of "repetitive choruses" is overblown.    Sure, they repeat.   But we're so used to songs that have drums or guitars repeat the same figures over and over while the vocalist takes the song into new territory that when Harris flips the script - in TAATG, the music behind Blaze is "escalating" for lack of a better word - it SEEMS like it's lazy but I don't see it that way.   I'm literally listening to TAATG as I type this, and other than the repeats at the end (around the 7:30 mark) there's a pretty consistent change of music behind Blaze.  And even at that part, kicking in around 8:00 or so, you get the fills in between the repeats, and some keyboard layering.   

I think it depends what you're looking for.  I would have to speculate - something I do not like to do - but if I did, I think that it's probably more indicative of Harris's general... not contempt, but lack of reverence for the vocal spot more than anything else.   I'm still not a fan of Blaze AS A SINGER IN IRON MAIDEN (I understand his other work to be much better, and I understand HIM to be a wonderful guy to the fans and his bandmates), but Virtual XI has only increased in my estimation over the years.  There's nothing on there that I actively dislike.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, the whole idea being The Angel and the Gambler was to have all the ups and downs with the tension always rising up, which would have been maximized in the live setting. Maybe there should have been more variation in the lyrics, or skipping vocals on the slow middle build up.

Imagine the entire middle section of Sign of the Cross, another "let's slow down and build it up until it explodes" part, with Blaze chanting "The sign of the cross" over and over and over alongide the buildup. It would have killed the song.

[Lupton]

The repetitive chorus syndrome certainly drags many a song down, but I find if it's in a song that has enjoyable parts, it merely lessens it's appeal. As jammindude pointed out, AMoLaD doesn't suffer as much from this, but that doesn't change that I only like maybe 4 songs on that album. Don't know why, but most of that material just doesn't do much for me. I like The Pilgrim, The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg, For the Greater Good of God and Lord of Light and that's about it. Maybe one of these days it will click on a re-listen, but at this point I don't even feel inclined to listen to any of the other songs and will probably skip them next time I'm on a Maiden binge.

[Zantera]

I feel like Harris just has a thing for the 'stadium of people chanting along with epic vocal parts' and ever since Fear of the Dark has kinda been trying to replicate that. And there's really nothing bad about it necessarily, some of the songs really work and others maybe a bit less. While technically not Maiden, I think Bruce's solo tracks Book of Thel and Jerusalem are up there with many of Maiden's best epics.

[Dream Team]

Well TBOS was refreshingly short on both repeating choruses and boring acoustic intros, so hopefully they will stick to that for the next album.

[Lupton]

I feel like Harris just has a thing for the 'stadium of people chanting along with epic vocal parts' and ever since Fear of the Dark has kinda been trying to replicate that. And there's really nothing bad about it necessarily, some of the songs really work and others maybe a bit less. While technically not Maiden, I think Bruce's solo tracks Book of Thel and Jerusalem are up there with many of Maiden's best epics.

As long as the song has good riffs and melodies it wouldn't completely ruin it for me. The chanting along thing totally makes sense. Apologies if I keep repeating myself. I'm in the mood for some Maiden tonight and I will be skipping all around their catalog listening to whatever strikes my fancy in the moment. Man I love this band! They've become on of my favorites in the past two years. I'll raise my glass to you guys as I listen! Cheers!  [where's the beer emoticon?]

I'd participate in the ranking thread if I did that sort of thing with music. Honestly I hate to even think about any music that way. It just sucks all the joy out of it for me. It also seems like such a pointless task -- like folding clothes or organizing my sock drawer. I'd rather just simply listen to it and enjoy music effortlessly and carefree without thinking: "Hmmm..where does this fall in my rankings?" (No offense intended to those who take pleasure in making lists, different strokes and all that...)

[Cool Chris]

I'd participate in the ranking thread if I did that sort of thing with music. Honestly I hate to even think about any music that way. It just sucks all the joy out of it for me. It also seems like such a pointless task -- like folding clothes or organizing my sock drawer. I'd rather just simply listen to it and enjoy music effortlessly and carefree without thinking: "Hmmm..where does this fall in my rankings?" (No offense intended to those who take pleasure in making lists, different strokes and all that...)

I am always amazed (and not in a bad way) when people are able to post their Top 50+ songs/albums, or anything really. DT is my favorite band, I know their catalog better than any other band, and I could easily come up with my top 10 songs, maybe my top 20 if I gave it a few minutes. Beyond that, I can't get caught up with what is my 36th favorite song, and the difference between that and my 49th favorite. I respect and appreciate others who do. It just doesn't work for me.

[425]

It's a bit of a loosely defined exercise with a somewhat false sense of precision, at least to me.

I know what belongs in the top 10, in 11-20, in 21-30, etc., in a pretty loose sense. The rankings within the rough groupings are mostly sort of, "gun to my head, what would I take right now?" I don't treat it so strictly that I would be willing to argue #37 against #39.

It's more a way to talk about some of my favorite songs from a particular band, while having a sense of progression from fringe favorites to top-level choices.

[wolfking]

It's a bit of a loosely defined exercise with a somewhat false sense of precision, at least to me.

I know what belongs in the top 10, in 11-20, in 21-30, etc., in a pretty loose sense. The rankings within the rough groupings are mostly sort of, "gun to my head, what would I take right now?" I don't treat it so strictly that I would be willing to argue #37 against #39.

It's more a way to talk about some of my favorite songs from a particular band, while having a sense of progression from fringe favorites to top-level choices.

Exactly.  And it's just interesting to see other opinions, and songs getting rated higher than you normally would rate them may make you revisit and get a greater appreciation for them.

[Stadler]

I'd participate in the ranking thread if I did that sort of thing with music. Honestly I hate to even think about any music that way. It just sucks all the joy out of it for me. It also seems like such a pointless task -- like folding clothes or organizing my sock drawer. I'd rather just simply listen to it and enjoy music effortlessly and carefree without thinking: "Hmmm..where does this fall in my rankings?" (No offense intended to those who take pleasure in making lists, different strokes and all that...)

I am always amazed (and not in a bad way) when people are able to post their Top 50+ songs/albums, or anything really. DT is my favorite band, I know their catalog better than any other band, and I could easily come up with my top 10 songs, maybe my top 20 if I gave it a few minutes. Beyond that, I can't get caught up with what is my 36th favorite song, and the difference between that and my 49th favorite. I respect and appreciate others who do. It just doesn't work for me.

I find it a struggle too, but for me, the "fun" is posting the top whatever songs, then realizing I did that four years ago and half the songs are swapped out!       Music is so much a mood thing for me that it's impossible to have anything of any certainty or permanence.