Author Topic: Kanye West smh  (Read 30506 times)

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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #175 on: February 16, 2015, 01:26:01 PM »
Or does he have a team of producers / "writers" to do everything for him ?


Kanye is known for his producing. That's what got him into the game. So that 'team of producers/writers is' him. He's not some talentless asshat (although he is an asshat). Kanye writes all his shit, and producers almost all of it. He revolutionized the rap/hip-hop multiple times, and he's only been in the game around 15 years. I understand that you a lot of folks here don't like Kanye, but don't try to act like he's just another face in pop music who doesn't really do all that much, because he actually does a ton of shit, for him, and for a long list of other artists.

Here's his production discography.


As much as the genre does not click with me, this makes me happy.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 03:17:17 PM by ErHaO »

Offline PuffyPat

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #176 on: February 16, 2015, 01:45:56 PM »
Also, the difference between the 20/20 Expirince and Yeezus is that one is a really good, standard pop record, and the other is a breakthrough in hip-hop that was praised for its fresh, minimalist approach to the genre.
Is it really accurate to call something with a cast of thousands "minimalist"?

Yes. Minimalism isn't defined by how many people work on something. Also there was hardly thousands of people who worked on that record.

Also, the difference between the 20/20 Expirince and Yeezus is that one is a really good, standard pop record, and the other is a breakthrough in hip-hop that was praised for its fresh, minimalist approach to the genre.

Unless I'm way more out of touch with the pop landscape today than I think I am, I'm pretty sure the 20/20 Experience and its sprawling 8-minute pieces can't really be considered "standard" by any stretch of the imagination.

Whether the songs are 8 minutes or 3 minutes, they're still just pop songs that aren't bringing much to the genre other than length.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #177 on: February 16, 2015, 02:11:55 PM »
I liken the long cuts on 20/20 experience more to the long disco edits in the 70s, for the purposes of clubs. Not something to be seen as artistically ambitious. Those are great songs though.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #178 on: February 16, 2015, 06:07:35 PM »
There are a lot of names there, but the input they had on the record was little more than bits and pieces here and there. I'd say it was probably an 85/15 split.

Okay, so take "I am a God", which is listed on Wikipedia as having 15 distinct writers.  (Funny how you were claiming before that Kanye "writes all his shit".)  So Kanye wrote 85% of that cut and the other 14 each wrote ~1% on average?  What exactly are you basing that 85/15 figure on?

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #179 on: February 16, 2015, 06:17:32 PM »
Does it really matter how Kanye gets to his end product as opposed to simply whether you like/dislike the end product?

It sounds like LaBrie's recent solo albums have a whole lot to do with Matt Guillory.  Many people still like the end product.

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #180 on: February 16, 2015, 06:30:08 PM »
I don't really care at all, because I don't like his music really, but I kind of would like to get to the bottom of this.  I've got a bunch of friends who would swear up and down that Kanye's one of the most talented people in the music business right now, and I never saw that.  Meanwhile we've got someone in this thread claiming that Kanye has been successful almost completely independently, with literally no help on the composition side and with very little help on the production side of his records, in spite of the fact that that flies in the face of the album's credits.  So I'd like to at least understand what the argument for him is.

Offline Zook

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #181 on: February 16, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »
How does PuffyPat know that info anyway? Was he in the recording studio for that album? Find out next time on Unsolved Mysteries.

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #182 on: February 16, 2015, 06:44:33 PM »
So I'd like to at least understand what the argument for him is.

Most likely it is simply individual preference.  If Kanye lovers swear he is a genius and the stuff you listen to is just subpar (or even lifeless), that's just their take.  You have a different and even opposite take.  The only thing that changes that is usually time.

The only way to really try to meet them halfway is ask for a couple specific songs they think are Kanye's best work.  Ask them if they like every second of the song or if there is a particular section that really caught their ear.  Then listen to it.

I did some spot checking on Kanye's songs.  I didn't find anything that caught my ear, so I left it at that.

But him crapping all over two fellow artists when they only get a few seconds to have their moment.  That's some major douchebaggery that people need to call out and tell him to stop.  It isn't even comparable to somebody talking bad about the music of others.

If Petrucci ran up on the stage and said "I can't believe you guys gave the metal Grammy to Tenacious D", I'd think "what a douche."  But if somebody posted that the Grammy to Tenacious D felt like a spitting on the lone metal category, that is totally different.  But most people into metal don't give a crap about the Grammys, so they won't remember this year's metal Grammy winner by the time March rolls around.  I couldn't even tell you which artists DT lost out to.

Online Anguyen92

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #183 on: February 16, 2015, 09:35:07 PM »
If Petrucci ran up on the stage and said "I can't believe you guys gave the metal Grammy to Tenacious D", I'd think "what a douche."  But if somebody posted that the Grammy to Tenacious D felt like a spitting on the lone metal category, that is totally different.  But most people into metal don't give a crap about the Grammys, so they won't remember this year's metal Grammy winner by the time March rolls around. I couldn't even tell you which artists DT lost out to.

I can.  I believe Foo Fighters' White Limo won in the 2012 awards and Black Sabbath's God is Dead won in the 2014 awards.  I wonder how different things would be if DT won one in one of those years?

Offline Mosh

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #184 on: February 16, 2015, 10:17:07 PM »
I remember DT losing to White Limo, mostly because of the outrage that happened here afterwards.  :lol
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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #185 on: February 16, 2015, 10:41:02 PM »
I remember DT losing to White Limo, mostly because of the outrage that happened here afterwards.  :lol

The sad part is I can't tell if you are joking that there was outrage or that it barely made a blip.

Offline Mosh

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #186 on: February 16, 2015, 11:10:56 PM »
I remember there being a clash of two extremes: There were people who didn't care at all and there were some who were losing their marbles over it.

Edit: Found it! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30954.msg1217442#msg1217442

Pretty entertaining thread.
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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #187 on: February 16, 2015, 11:49:36 PM »
I remember there being a clash of two extremes: There were people who didn't care at all and there were some who were losing their marbles over it.

Edit: Found it! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30954.msg1217442#msg1217442

Pretty entertaining thread.

Reading a bit of it.  Yeah, it is pretty split.

I do find that many *metal* fans will say things like "Grammys are irrelevant / stupid / meaningless", then DT gets nominated and suddenly it means something, then they lose and it is meaningless again ...  until they are nominated a second time and the cycle starts all over again.

I look at the Grammy winners through out the years, realize it has little to do with my personal music collection and therefore little to do with my life.  But I wouldn't crap all over DT for showing respect to the Grammys for their nomination.  It is just the right thing to do,  (and here we come full circle) unlike Kanye's actions.




Offline Mosh

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #188 on: February 17, 2015, 12:03:44 AM »
I think the Grammys can be entertaining. It's a representation of popular music, I'm not sure what more you can expect. I wouldn't consider it an authority on what the best music is, but that goes for any mainstream institution of that sort. Things like the Rock and Roll HoF or The Oscar's. I think it's just important to not take it too seriously or make it out to be anything more than it is.
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Online hefdaddy42

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #189 on: February 17, 2015, 04:56:06 AM »
Also, the difference between the 20/20 Expirince and Yeezus is that one is a really good, standard pop record, and the other is a breakthrough in hip-hop that was praised for its fresh, minimalist approach to the genre.
Is it really accurate to call something with a cast of thousands "minimalist"?

Yes. Minimalism isn't defined by how many people work on something. Also there was hardly thousands of people who worked on that record.

Also, the difference between the 20/20 Expirince and Yeezus is that one is a really good, standard pop record, and the other is a breakthrough in hip-hop that was praised for its fresh, minimalist approach to the genre.

Unless I'm way more out of touch with the pop landscape today than I think I am, I'm pretty sure the 20/20 Experience and its sprawling 8-minute pieces can't really be considered "standard" by any stretch of the imagination.

Whether the songs are 8 minutes or 3 minutes, they're still just pop songs that aren't bringing much to the genre other than length.
Come on, man.

Also, the problem with DT losing to Foo Fighters is that they shouldn't have been in the same category in the first place, not that the Foos were undeserving.
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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #190 on: February 17, 2015, 06:29:44 AM »
Also, the problem with DT losing to Foo Fighters is that they shouldn't have been in the same category in the first place, not that the Foos were undeserving.

Did you not get your decoder ring?  The translated category is "song with too much guitar."


Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #191 on: February 17, 2015, 03:04:27 PM »
There are a lot of names there, but the input they had on the record was little more than bits and pieces here and there. I'd say it was probably an 85/15 split.

Okay, so take "I am a God", which is listed on Wikipedia as having 15 distinct writers.  (Funny how you were claiming before that Kanye "writes all his shit".)  So Kanye wrote 85% of that cut and the other 14 each wrote ~1% on average?  What exactly are you basing that 85/15 figure on?

The important thing to understand is that Hip-Hop writing is a largely collaborative process, and has been since its inception.  You could use the example of early hip-hop block parties:

The DJ spins a break for rappers to rhyme over, so DJ & Rapper = 2 writing credits there.  Bearing in mind that the DJ is most likely spinning pre-recorded music, and also that he would be using two decks with two different songs playing in order to make the 'new' beat, we could conservatively estimate that the between the two decks there are a total of, oh, say 8 writers, making the total number of writers 10.

Now lets say someone at the block party comes up with a cool hook to put on the track. You gotta give that guy a writing credit. So there's 11.  Then lets say some musicians want to start jamming along with their own parts, you could then add another 4-5 credits to the track.  14-15 writers?

That's generally how things would work in the studio too.  Looking at the specific Kanye track you pointed out I can see that 4 of the credits are from the samples being used, 5 are from musicians/producers who played on the album.  The other credits you could probably put down to dudes being around in the studio while they were recording and maybe contributing a line or two but I dunno they could be totally ghost written lyrics and Kanye's name could just be at the top cos he's the boss who got em all there - it wouldn't be the first time that's happened.   If they are ghost written, then that was probably a waste of money because those lyrics are terrible. 

I get that a lot of people just hate Kanye for who he is and that's fine, I think he's a fucktard too.  But to denounce his music just because of that is ignorant.  I don't disregard Appetite for Destruction because Axl's a vindictive little bitch and I don't hate Metallica just because Hetfield enjoys a canned hunt.  Music is music, if it speaks to you then cool if it doesn't then don't worry about it.  jesus. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:12:14 PM by sneakyblueberry »

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #192 on: February 17, 2015, 03:24:39 PM »
2 to 3 writing credits is fine but there are so many on single songs it throws me off.  Maybe it's the musician snob in me but I can't help it.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #193 on: February 17, 2015, 03:30:03 PM »
With so many writers on each track - how is it a Kanye album ?

Because his voice is on it ?

What if he has loads of guest vocalists ?

How is it still a Kanye album ?


Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #194 on: February 17, 2015, 03:40:55 PM »
Because the only reason anyone is in the studio and has anything to work on is because of him?  Because he's the creative mind behind the music?  Because he's paying the wages?  Because his name sells records?  Could be any of those I suppose, I really don't know.  You could ask the same question of 90% of pop music around today.  There's a rumour floating around on Talkbass about the first Maroon 5 album being performed by session musicians contractually obliged to deny any involvement.  Everything is about marketability.   

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #195 on: February 17, 2015, 03:53:38 PM »
I've heard that Kings Of Leon don't write any of their songs.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2015, 03:57:15 PM »
Michael Nesmith of The Monkees often didn't even wear his real hat.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #197 on: February 17, 2015, 04:05:10 PM »
James LaBrie doesn't even like cheese.

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #198 on: March 02, 2015, 03:49:08 PM »
Last night (our time) Kanye gave a guest lecture at the Museum of Natural History at Oxford University.


Some of the pearls of wisdom he graced his audience with :

“My goal, if I was going to do art — fine art — would have been to become Picasso or greater"

“Chris Rock, everyone else at every single media publication called My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy the best album of the last 25 years,”

“Obama calls (my) home phone, by the way,”  and

“It’s still February, correct?”   ;D

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #199 on: March 02, 2015, 03:51:19 PM »
 :lol
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Offline Zook

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #200 on: March 02, 2015, 03:59:44 PM »
A museum let that maniac do a lecture?

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #201 on: March 02, 2015, 04:03:59 PM »
Universities let all sorts of folks do lectures. Hell, Lil B has done lectures.

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #202 on: March 02, 2015, 04:05:02 PM »
Universities let all sorts of folks do lectures. Hell, Lil B has done lectures.

And we are blown away every time we read about it.
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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #203 on: March 02, 2015, 04:50:17 PM »
“Chris Rock, everyone else at every single media publication called My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy the best album of the last 25 years,”

25 years? Nah, but i'd say MBDTF is the best album since Radiohead - In Rainbows (2007).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 04:56:04 PM by Outcrier »
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Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #204 on: March 02, 2015, 04:53:05 PM »
And I don't really see what's wrong with the first and last statements. I'm not sure about the context of the 3rd so I can't really make much of a judgment.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #205 on: March 02, 2015, 05:02:47 PM »
I read that he said " You need to lose your egos like I have "


 :rollin

Offline Zook

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #206 on: March 02, 2015, 05:13:21 PM »
I read that he said " You need to lose your egos like I have "


 :rollin

He was talking about the waffles. In addition to being a musical genius, he's also a health guru.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #207 on: March 02, 2015, 05:19:45 PM »
And I don't really see what's wrong with the first and last statements. I'm not sure about the context of the 3rd so I can't really make much of a judgment.

Maybe I'm the only one who expects a guest lecturer at Oxford to know what month he's in.

In the end it's just a bit of fun.  As Kotowboy alluded to he also said something about losing his ego . I just find his greatness (and modesty) quite overwhelming  ;D
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #208 on: March 02, 2015, 06:10:37 PM »
“Chris Rock, everyone else at every single media publication called My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy the best album of the last 25 years,”

25 years? Nah, but i'd say MBDTF is the best album since Radiohead - In Rainbows (2007).

Its a fucking stellar album, but to say its the best album out of all the albums in the world since x year is a stretch for anyone to say, about any album really.  Definitely the best Hip-Hop album of 2010.  Maybe the best Hip Hop album since Madvilliany (2004)?

Offline Outcrier

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Re: Kanye West smh
« Reply #209 on: March 02, 2015, 06:48:35 PM »
Personally, yeah. There is Kanye's College Dropout and Donuts too but i prefer Madvillainy over them.
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