Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)

[KevShmev]

I knew how that scene was going to end as soon as a certain someone made their presence known, but, jeez. 

Not like we didn't know it before, but Kim is officially as slimy as Jimmy.

[DragonAttack]

Never swore as loud in a moment of angst and shock watching any TV show or movie as I did tonight

Just ‘Wow!’

[Chino]

I scared the ever living fuck out of my dog.

What does Lalo expect to get out of Saul?

Also, I'm still not understanding how Lalo found the laundry.

[gmillerdrake]

Just…..I mean…..wow.

[faizoff]

Sweet lord almighty. I legit jumped out of my chair.


So some solid sleuthing on the subreddit


When Kim visits Lalo in jail, he calls Saul a cockroach. The cockroach in the sewer made Lalo think of Saul again.


Goddamn was that some good acting by Howard, he's by far my favorite side character story arc. 

[Chino]

What to do with Howard is an interesting question. If Kim and Jimmy disappear him, Cliff is going to name drop Jimmy to the cops immediately. Think they might stage it as a suicide or something?

[KevShmev]

What to do with Howard is an interesting question. If Kim and Jimmy disappear him, Cliff is going to name drop Jimmy to the cops immediately. Think they might stage it as a suicide or something?

They have portrayed Cliff as a bit of a dunce lately, but he should be able to put two and two together once he realizes that Kim skipped the meeting he had set up for her on the same day Howard had his "meltdown" (for lack of a better term), one Howard verbally blamed (correctly) to Cliff on Jimmy (but not Kim, which could be significant).

[SoundscapeMN]

Is Lalo's motivation to use Saul to out/blackmail Gus?

They also are going to have to give more on how Lalo found the Laundry Mat.

Also, I'm assuming the 1st time Lalo was put on hold was when Gus (Mike) had set up the tapping of the Nursing Home's phone. How Lalo realized that? was it just that he normally doesn't get put on hold. And he somehow assumed the 2nd time, it wasn't tapped despite the same "on hold" music?

We know in BB, Saul definitely fears or deals with Gus in a concerned manner. I wonder if we end up getting some dealing between Saul and Gus in the 2nd half here that sets up their dicy relationship in BB.

[KevShmev]

I think there was a brief cut when he was on hold the first time, almost like someone was hacking into the call.  He noticed it.  And then when he made the second call, he said what he wanted them to hear, most likely to get security all drawn to Gus and away from Kim and Jimmy, but the question becomes, when did he figure out that Mike's guys were keeping an eye on Kim and Jimmy?

Re-watching the last scene really shows the difference now between Jimmy and Kim.  Jimmy loves a good con, but I don't think he cared if Howard bounced back from it.  He was happy having made him look foolish.  Not Kim.  She wanted him ruined.  When Jimmy told Howard he'd be fine and that he always lands on his feet, Kim gives Jimmy a look like, "Really? That's not what we want."  And Jimmy looked genuinely bothered for a second or two when Howard mentioned that his marriage had been in trouble, almost like Jimmy was having a pang of guilt over kicking someone when they are down.  Meanwhile, Kim kept just standing there like she couldn't have cared less. 

That said, I think Kim was genuinely scared for Howard when Lalo made his presence known, which is why she told him several times to leave, so it's an interesting dichotomy in that she was worried for his life just moments after making it obvious that she was totally fine with possibly having ruined his professional reputation.

[gmillerdrake]

I think there was a brief cut when he was on hold the first time, almost like someone was hacking into the call.  He noticed it.  And then when he made the second call, he said what he wanted them to hear, most likely to get security all drawn to Gus and away from Kim and Jimmy, but the question becomes, when did he figure out that Mike's guys were keeping an eye on Kim and Jimmy?

Re-watching the last scene really shows the difference now between Jimmy and Kim.  Jimmy loves a good con, but I don't think he cared if Howard bounced back from it.  He was happy having made him look foolish.  Not Kim.  She wanted him ruined.  When Jimmy told Howard he'd be fine and that he always lands on his feet, Kim gives Jimmy a look like, "Really? That's not what we want."  And Jimmy looked genuinely bothered for a second or two when Howard mentioned that his marriage had been in trouble, almost like Jimmy was having a pang of guilt over kicking someone when they are down.  Meanwhile, Kim kept just standing there like she couldn't have cared less. 

That said, I think Kim was genuinely scared for Howard when Lalo made his presence known, which is why she told him several times to leave, so it's an interesting dichotomy in that she was worried for his life just moments after making it obvious that she was totally fine with possibly having ruined his professional reputation.

Yeah....that's exactly how I interpreted that all. Kim was WAY more enthused about what they'd done to Howard.....then once Lalo showed up both Kim and Jimmy knew Howard's life was in danger.

[faizoff]

Just have to say the flip in emotions by the actors in the end scene was so surreal. The horror they showed just completely switched the tone of that scene. I'll have to admit, I was initially thinking it would be Lalo knocking but when Howard showed up, I was relieved only to be confronted with my worst fears. That whole final scene was amazing.

The director and writer of the episode said before the episode that this episode wasn't meant to be a mid-season finale. It just worked that way because of issues they had with finishing the remaining episodes on time. Either way at least the remaining six episodes are just 7 weeks away.

[MinistroRaven]

I am in shock

Never expected Howard to end like this. I feel bad for him. I think he always was a good guy with a tough temper, but he was in my eyes a correct man, that was looking for the best interest of his company/firm.

Man, I can't believe what I just watched.

[gmillerdrake]

What to do with Howard is an interesting question. If Kim and Jimmy disappear him, Cliff is going to name drop Jimmy to the cops immediately. Think they might stage it as a suicide or something?

Was wondering the same thing? I mean, Lalo will just walk away and leave them with the mess presumably.....how do you just 'get rid' of a prominent lawyer? The suicide angle is the best one but even then they'd have to stage that suicide scene at Jimmy's apartment. You're not moving the body etc etc.

[Chino]

What to do with Howard is an interesting question. If Kim and Jimmy disappear him, Cliff is going to name drop Jimmy to the cops immediately. Think they might stage it as a suicide or something?

Was wondering the same thing? I mean, Lalo will just walk away and leave them with the mess presumably.....how do you just 'get rid' of a prominent lawyer? The suicide angle is the best one but even then they'd have to stage that suicide scene at Jimmy's apartment. You're not moving the body etc etc.

I thought about this a bit more, and the suicide angle will be really hard if BCS wants to maintain realism. Crime scene investigators would know right away it wasn't a suicide. For one, the murder weapon in gone (unless Lalo leaves it for some reason). There'd be no residue on Howard's hands from the discharge, and the damage to his head is probably not consistent with a self inflicted gunshot room given that Lalo was a few feet away. 

They could continue their con and say Howard stormed in violently one of them shot him in self defense (assuming they have or can get a gun). Everyone in the meeting room would be able to testify that just a few hours prior Howard was acting strange and erratic.   


Edit:
Just saw these photos frame on Reddit. They could possibly go the suicide route (NSFW)
https://preview.redd.it/i4iwjgshbg191.jpg?width=768&auto=webp&s=34b882c1dad82ce1d03eb36f204e2a69af05e409

[Chino]

So I just pulled up this scene because I wanted to hear the song (didn't know what it was called).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfWzb8uf8s


I guess that's how the crew guys knew where they were going and were able to give Lalo a name. Seems like a really stupid oversight.

[gmillerdrake]

I think Jimmy and Kim knew/know/were planning on Howard catching on....and that he's falling right into whatever plan they have and will ultimately only 'learn' what they want him to. As far as his ultimate demise or whatever the end game is....I think it's going to be whatever Jimmy and Kim have planned and that'll cost Kim her future and pave Saul's.

Not that this was a 'hot take' at the time or some sort of convoluted puzzle that needed to be solved.....but "you" had a hunch at the time when Howard hired the P.I. that Jimmy/Kim knew this would happen and that Howard was unknowingly digging his own grave....no pun intended.

[MinistroRaven]

Maybe they will stage it like Howard was killed by his drug dealer, in the end, that's how he was portrayed in the last couple of episodes as a drug addict.

[Evermind]

Man I'm just sad for Howard. The guy did his best and didn't really deserve any of this. Such a meaningless death too, he wasn't even involved in any of the cartel thing.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Man I'm just sad for Howard. The guy did his best and didn't really deserve any of this. Such a meaningless death too, he wasn't even involved in any of the cartel thing.

Yea I agree, I felt so sad for him through the whole episode. He always seemed like a righteous man but honestly his death felt kinda lame, it was too obvious to be shocking atleast for me. Still sad to see him go like that.

[SoundscapeMN]

I suspect Lalo could at least find a way to take care of Howard's body to stage it with much less suspicion.

[Elite]

I’m honestly not sure what to think after watching that. In a way it seems unnecessary and simply there to ‘shock’. It’s meaningless and a little too far-fetched. Too much coincidence and thinks working out just right.

By the way, everything that happened was mentioned in the episode’s title.

[DoctorAction]

Blimey.

That felt like something out of Breaking Bad to me, for the first time in BCS - where the things people do can lead to unexpected, terrible consequences

[MinistroRaven]

Meaningless?!? Nah, it will certainly have a deeper meaning for Kim and Saul, it was all THEIR fault that this happened. I hate Kim and Jimmy much more now.

[KevShmev]

What to do with Howard is an interesting question. If Kim and Jimmy disappear him, Cliff is going to name drop Jimmy to the cops immediately. Think they might stage it as a suicide or something?

Was wondering the same thing? I mean, Lalo will just walk away and leave them with the mess presumably.....how do you just 'get rid' of a prominent lawyer? The suicide angle is the best one but even then they'd have to stage that suicide scene at Jimmy's apartment. You're not moving the body etc etc.

I thought about this a bit more, and the suicide angle will be really hard if BCS wants to maintain realism. Crime scene investigators would know right away it wasn't a suicide. For one, the murder weapon in gone (unless Lalo leaves it for some reason). There'd be no residue on Howard's hands from the discharge, and the damage to his head is probably not consistent with a self inflicted gunshot room given that Lalo was a few feet away. 

They could continue their con and say Howard stormed in violently one of them shot him in self defense (assuming they have or can get a gun). Everyone in the meeting room would be able to testify that just a few hours prior Howard was acting strange and erratic.   


Edit:
Just saw these photos frame on Reddit. They could possibly go the suicide route (NSFW)
https://preview.redd.it/i4iwjgshbg191.jpg?width=768&auto=webp&s=34b882c1dad82ce1d03eb36f204e2a69af05e409

I think the suicide angle would be hard to pull off simply because it is hard to imagine Jimmy and Kim having the poker faces to pull it off, given how in shock they were.  As much bad stuff as they have done, witnessing a murder of a former colleague in front of their faces and then covering up the murder is like going for 0 to 70 in three seconds.  They aren't that "in the game" yet to be able to successfully pull that off, IMO.  Much will depend on how the scene plays out with Lalo (we know Jimmy makes it out alive, and I am sure Kim will as well), but I would imagine Jimmy knows he can call Mike to clean the scene, so it is possible Howard will simply disappear and many will assume the events of that day drove him far away.

[Elite]

Meaningless?!? Nah, it will certainly have a deeper meaning for Kim and Saul, it was all THEIR fault that this happened. I hate Kim and Jimmy much more now.

(Spoilers, but it's also in the thread title)

No, my problem is not with it being meaningless, that was probably a wrong word choice. The odds of it happening are just so low that the entire idea felt contrived an only put in there to shock the viewer. Lalo showing up exactly 5 minutes after Howard is too much of a coincidence, especially knowing how methodical Lalo can be, he had probably even seen Howard entering their house. Howard didn't deserve this, but he was a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time; in that sense I do definitely see the Breaking Bad similarities that actions have larger unexpected consequences.

We needed something to happen to make Jimmy the Saul he is in Breaking Bad and this may very well be it. How Jimmy and Kim will recover from this, I don't know. Everything that happened in that scene was their making.

[MirrorMask]

We can somehow justify that with Lalo growing impatient and acting in a rushed way, which no doubt will be his undoing. He wants to get it done ASAP and so he just can't wait anymore. Probably he would have waited Howard out, but when he heard him say that he would work relentlessly to bring Jimmy and Kimmy down, he thought he would have been a problem to eliminate.

Anyway.... congratulations to the author trolling on Twitter, the one I quoted.  Yeah, maybe he's since in saying that they didn't plan a mid season break, but I'm sure he told that to not have people anticipating a major shocking cliffhanger and maybe try to guess which one.

Poor Howard. Poor, poor Howard. I never felt sympathy for his character as much as now. His tearing down of Kim and Jimmy was absolutely on point. Yeah, it's a TV show, Jimmy is the protagonist, we rooted against Howard and eventually we sympathized with him when it turned out that Chuck was the real asshole, but seriously, he said it so eloquently - what did he do to deserve all of that? he's an asshole, he got daddy's help, he sided with Chuck, so out of petty revenge they ruin his life and carrer? who made Jimmy and Kim judge and jury of what should happen to regular, decent people who happen to have some flaws? and he was even depressed on top of having marital problems.

So many parallels with both Chuck and Hank.... with Chuck, the meltdown orchestrated by Jimmy and the lucid realization of what Jimmy's plan was - Howard got it down to the last detail exactly as Chuck did with the Mesa Verde paper, and with Hank, the whole "moderate antagonist that you have to realize is actually better than the protagonist and eventually dies tragically".

That scene shocked me, I kinda plan my viewing evenings to not run too late beyond my usual bedtime (hey, the day after is a working day), I had to scrap those plans and chill out a bit because I was too shocked (eventually I went for other shorter stuff, I needed those 10-15 minutes to calm down, this wasn't just another "eh, episode over, time to watch another show" thing). I was worried just as Kim and Jimmy and I didn't even properly saw the killing 'cause I was too busy saying "no, no no... NOOOO HOWARD!!!".

Nothing will ever beath Hank's death in this universe, but this probably comes in as a close second.

[Elite]

Everything that gets destroyed around him is actually all Jimmy's doing.

This is the most important thing happening in this season so far, with Nacho's being a second (and I found that one maybe more tragic even). It just still doesn't make sense; there was no need for Lalo to do this and I do hope indeed that this will be his undoing.

[MirrorMask]

Howard's exact quote to Jimmy and Kim, when Lalo was listening:

"I'm gonna make it clear to everyone, because I'm going to dedicate my life to making sure that everybody knows the truth. Believe it. You can't hide who you really are forever."

This sounds like a problem to an unhinged and eager to act Lalo. Maybe, as he did in the house of Mrs. Ziegler, he would have waited for Howard to leave (come on, they were telling him already to go away), but when he heard that, he immediately enter the scene. Not after a while.... as soon as Howard said that, he came into the living room.

I too agree that he should have just waited for Howard to go away, but we can somehow rationalize this without too many mental athletics. Walter leaving a poetry book in the toilet was a far worse useful coincidence.

[Elite]

Thanks, that actually makes the whole scene make a lot more sense.

Howard Hamlin was cool. Patrick Fabian really did a good job portraying him

[Chino]

Lalo can't just leave Jimmy and Kim, can he? There's too much risk that one of them reports him as soon as he leaves. I could see him doing something like ordering Saul to somehow get Gus into the picture while he takes Kim hostage. Saul does it. Mike helps with the body. Jimmy gets his settlement money, divorces Kim so she gets half, and then that's her ticket to be vacuumed away.

[MirrorMask]

Lalo can't just leave Jimmy and Kim, can he? There's too much risk that one of them reports him as soon as he leaves. I could see him doing something like ordering Saul to somehow get Gus into the picture while he takes Kim hostage. Saul does it. Mike helps with the body. Jimmy gets his settlement money, divorces Kim so she gets half, and then that's her ticket to be vacuumed away.

The urgency in Lalo's actions, and Gus' camp preparing for everything, makes me think that things will come to a head pretty soon. I wouldn't be surprised if the final showdown between Lalo and Gus, or at least Mike, will happen already in episode 8. Then two episodes to wrap up the Jimmy timeline, and then three episodes to go back to Gene and then end the whole story.

Who knows if we'll get an iconic, and fitting lyrics-wise, closing song like it heppened with Breaking Band and Baby Blue. Maybe there's a relatively unknown band out there who's counting the days until their Spotify numbers suddenly skyrocket 

[KevShmev]

Lalo can't just leave Jimmy and Kim, can he? There's too much risk that one of them reports him as soon as he leaves. I could see him doing something like ordering Saul to somehow get Gus into the picture while he takes Kim hostage. Saul does it. Mike helps with the body. Jimmy gets his settlement money, divorces Kim so she gets half, and then that's her ticket to be vacuumed away.

I cannot recall, is Jimmy aware yet of the existent of Ed (the disappearer).  Robert Forster passed away in late 2019, so we obviously will not see him, but I suppose they could always work that angle without us having to see Ed.

But yeah, how that plays out in the apartment will be most interesting, not just with what do they do with Howard, but, like you said, Lalo cannot just have a chat with them and then leave. 

[Chino]

They don't know about his services, but they hinted at them figuring it out when Kim found his business card in the black book. We know they get that book at some point, and maybe Kim deciphers the code or something. That'd also explain how Saul knew of him and his services in BB. 

[Elite]

Lalo can't just leave Jimmy and Kim, can he? There's too much risk that one of them reports him as soon as he leaves. I could see him doing something like ordering Saul to somehow get Gus into the picture while he takes Kim hostage. Saul does it. Mike helps with the body. Jimmy gets his settlement money, divorces Kim so she gets half, and then that's her ticket to be vacuumed away.

I cannot recall, is Jimmy aware yet of the existent of Ed (the disappearer).

No. The scene at the vet (Ep. 6) where they flipped through the black book prominently showed the Vacuum Guy's business card though, and we know that book ends up in their hands at some point (somebody else said in this thread that it was shown in the season's cold open).

[MirrorMask]

Boy I'm stupid.

Only now I've just realized that, so far, all episodes of the season are called Something and Something.