Author Topic: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)  (Read 41818 times)

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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #665 on: October 03, 2018, 01:19:31 PM »
Completely forgot to watch Monday night, had to catch it last night. Might watch it again tonight. That was a really good episode. I personally enjoy the Mike/Werner scenes, particularly in last night's episode. That sneaky son of a bitch. He's gonna end up dead now, and Gus is gonna have Mike's ass in the finale.

I thought it was really cathartic for Kim to lay into Jimmy and frankly it didn't surprise me she let it all out at him. It's hard to disagree with her either, although I still feel terrible for both of them, almost as much for Jimmy as I do for Kim.

That opening scam was fantastic. Kim sold the part of a cunning scammer well while also showing her nerves for the audience to pick up on. Really entertaining.

Lalo Salamanca - not sure what to make of him. I can't tell if he's dangerous or naive, the actor is really good at his role and I can't get a read on him, if he actually does trust Gus or not. He's not like any of the other Salamancas other than his loyalty to Hector.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #666 on: October 03, 2018, 07:10:34 PM »
Lalo definitely does not trust or like Gus.  We saw how close he is to Hector, and I am sure Lalo is on board the same anti-Gus train that Hector is on.  His casual toss of the Pollos Hermanos cup out of the car window on to the parking lot illustrated that quite clearly.

At this point, I will be shocked if we do not see Kim in Jimmy's post-BB life.  Heck, she could have been in his life the whole time during BB; it's not like they ever showed any aspect of Saul's personal life.

Offline Kattelox

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #667 on: October 03, 2018, 07:31:17 PM »
 :facepalm: I forgot about that re: Lalo's behavior after leaving the office. Gonna watch the episode again when I get home soon.

I think it would be awesome if she lived through BB. There's no reason she has to get whacked, after all...
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #668 on: October 04, 2018, 01:37:08 PM »
Right, all of this is definitely setting up a possible season 5.

I think we're getting Gene's life again in the final episode, because we haven't see the rest of that yet and it would feel strange if they don't show us anything there. Also, something's bound to happen with Jimmy getting reinstated anyway, because there's no way this is going to take on another season. It really can go either way in the last episode between Jimmy and Kim, but I think they will make up.

Ramble.

Lalo will probably turn out to be quite literally insane. He might actually go out and kill Nacho for all we know, for 'poisoning' Hector. Also Werner is an idiot and I can't help but think there's more to his escape than just him missing his wife. Perhaps he's secretly working for another group as well? Too much stuff to think about and the final episode is never going to answer all of this at once.
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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #669 on: October 09, 2018, 03:13:51 PM »
Man, season finale was SOOOO good, no question why Jimmy feels no remorse for Chuck at all. That Karaoke scene was so perfect, Chuck stealing the spotlight and that song fit really well with the message they were trying to convey.
After watching the episode it got me thinking that Kim was the one who wrote that “perfect” letter to Jimmy and no Chuck.
And last lines of Jimmy at the end of the episode were there ones I anticipated. This show it’s PERFECT. Sadly I will have to wait for next season.

Offline Kattelox

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #670 on: October 09, 2018, 03:37:15 PM »
It was a great episode. And that shot of Mike and Werner in the desert, that was cinematic beauty. And their dialogue just prior to that, it was great. You could see it in both their faces that neither of them wanted that outcome but it had to be done. I loved how Jimmy conned everyone, even the viewers (at least me and my dad), into believing he was genuine in that room, and then... bam, suckered. Slippin' Jimmy. "S'all good, man!" Hah. Season 5 is gonna rock. Hope it comes sooner than later.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #671 on: October 09, 2018, 05:49:56 PM »
Moral of the story: everything Chuck said about his brother was dead accurate.

Very good finale to a somewhat choppy season, IMO.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #672 on: October 09, 2018, 07:51:14 PM »
Yeah, it didn't seem to get its legs until around Episode 5.  We watched 6-9 last night before the finale. 

There was so much to digest.  It was well done on every count, painful as it was.  Good to see the Abbey Road Gang again, and Howard, and the opener was superb and a brilliant twist for the ending.

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Biggest sigh of relief:  not having to hear Jimmy and Kim sing 'Bohemian Rhapsody'.    ;)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #673 on: October 09, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »
I was waiting for Chuck to start singing Stonehenge.  :metal :metal

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #674 on: October 09, 2018, 09:13:03 PM »
At a volume of 11  :D
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Offline Shooters1221

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #675 on: October 09, 2018, 11:03:32 PM »
I was waiting for Chuck to start singing Stonehenge.  :metal :metal

OMG...I was thinking the exact same thing as I was watching that part. :tup :tup

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #676 on: October 10, 2018, 02:15:14 PM »
Dman, that was an awesome episode indeed!
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Offline mike099

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #677 on: October 11, 2018, 12:22:28 PM »
That ending was brilliant.  Kim played the game with Jimmy and in the end she truly thought he meant what he said when he went off script.  He deserves a nomination for the emmy.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #678 on: October 11, 2018, 01:04:35 PM »
Alright.. now that the dust has settled a bit; I really enjoy Better Call Saul and as it's the only Series I watch, you can guess that I'm already eagerly awaiting Season 5 (which should arrive sometime, given the ending of this one). However, I can't help but feel that the creators went a little off-track with this season, and that's mostly to do with the bunch of semi-/not intertwined plot-lines throughout the series.

I don't think I can voice all of my gripes accurately, but I think the following sums it up:  the series throws a lot of stuff at you and some of that stuff is brilliant and actually helps to further the plot, other scenes leave me wondering what the hell happened and we're left to fill in the blanks ourselves. Prime example: the latest scenes with Nacho. We last saw him on his father's couch, in very bad shape. The next scene he shows up is in his own(?) house, with random girls in his living room, putting stuff in a safe. What the hell is happening here? Next up, in Ep. 9 he tours around with Lalo, who asks him to show the farm. The in Ep. 10, he's nowhere to be found. Strange.

Then the stuff with the Germans. The bar scene had no impact on the story at all (even Werner drawing the secret lab to random people ultimately didn't do anything). Building the super hideout served nothing other than to show how insanely dedicated Gus is to set up his own operations. The whole 'Werner goes missing' does absolutely nothing for the character development of the main characters and actually didn't further the plot either. I also find it highly unlikely (but that aside) that Werner would actively choose to run away. And was killing him really necessary? I mean, what does it accomplish? (in the grand scheme of things).

Earlier in the series, the Gus/Mike/Nacho stuff was at least closely tied to the Jimmy/Kim stuff, even though it was only through Mike being the parking attendant and him helping Jimmy occasionally. Now it's really two separate stories developing and not all of it is exactly clear (the Nacho stuff for example, but also whatever Lalo is doing). Another thing is the therapy session where Mike ousted that one guy. I mean, the scene was good, but what was the point in showing it? Oh, I haven't even started on the post-BB 'Gene' life. That's really going nowhere either.

Now, typing this up makes it all sound really negative, which isn't my intention, because I'm enjoying the show immensely and perhaps I'm bad at seeing te bigger picture, or the meaning behind some of these seemingly random scenes. To me it's as if the makers themselves don't have a particularly clear direction and they just keep throwing stuff at us to make things more complicated, while detracting from what was originally going to be the main story: how Jimmy got to be Saul. This season had us watching the Twin Brother Deathsquad gun down an entire drug operation out of nowhere.

At least with BB I got the feeling there was more focus; the main story was clear and everything helped propel the story forward. There were no real distractions and everything that was shown mattered to some extent. With BCS, I feel like they could leave out a bunch of the scenes without really damaging the story whatsoever, which ultimately drags down the show a tiny bit.

Again - I enjoyed the season and will eagerly wait for the next. I hope the makers have a good idea of how they're going to tie everything together.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #679 on: October 11, 2018, 06:02:43 PM »
While I wasn't overly enamored with the Germans/super lab story, I totally disagree with a few things you said, Elite.


Then the stuff with the Germans. The bar scene had no impact on the story at all (even Werner drawing the secret lab to random people ultimately didn't do anything). 


Running his mouth to a bunch of strangers showed that Werner could not be trusted, which was reaffirmed later when he bolted in the middle of the night.


 The whole 'Werner goes missing' does absolutely nothing for the character development of the main characters and actually didn't further the plot either.

It was a plot device to demonstrate where Mike's unyielding loyalty to Gus, which we saw in Breaking Bad, came from.


 I also find it highly unlikely (but that aside) that Werner would actively choose to run away. And was killing him really necessary? I mean, what does it accomplish? (in the grand scheme of things).


Was killing him necessary?  Considering their world and leaving the morality of normal people like us out of the equation, yes.

He had already given away some info to Lalo on the phone.

He could not be trusted.

If you are Gus, how can you trust this guy to a) come back and finish the job without going off the reservation again, and b) keep his mouth shut once it was finished.

Now, it's clear that Werner didn't know the full scope of who and what he was dealing with, otherwise Mike's original warning (after he shot his mouth off in the bar) would have sunk in and stuck.

Mike choosing to do it himself was his way of letting Werner go out with a quick death, instead of Gus' guys doing it (and that would not have been quick).

Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #680 on: October 12, 2018, 02:04:39 AM »
The whole 'Werner goes missing' does absolutely nothing for the character development of the main characters and actually didn't further the plot either.

It was a plot device to demonstrate where Mike's unyielding loyalty to Gus, which we saw in Breaking Bad, came from.
And also, crucially, why in BB he's so inflexible. I thought the way this story with the Germans developed and set up Mike's character development turned out brilliant in the end.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #681 on: October 12, 2018, 03:27:06 AM »
Okay, maybe that part of my retort wasn't very well thought out, because now that both of you are saying that, it actually makes sense.

The last couple of scenes with Nacho still leave me wondering what the hell happened though and the fact the series at this point is essentially 2 or 3 stories running together, instead of one bigger story has gone unanswered, so I'm assuming you guys agree with me on that part.



Maybe I'm just not very good at looking further into a tv series.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #682 on: October 15, 2018, 02:00:34 PM »
TV series viewing.........we had BCS, we watch 'Game of Thrones', and we watch a couple of 'The Sopranos' a month (we'd seen 20% of the episodes during the initial run, we know most of the story lines, the ending, etc....we just want to experience and savor all of it), and...we watch an occasional 'Big Bang'.....but that's it these days.

So, yeah.....we be missing Victor and Giselle.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #683 on: October 17, 2018, 11:15:05 AM »
I finally blew threw the 3 seasons of this show that are available on Netflix. I freaking love it.   

Chuck :(

Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #684 on: October 17, 2018, 01:25:27 PM »
 :he’d add
I finally blew threw the 3 seasons of this show that are available on Netflix. I freaking love it.   

Chuck :(

There are 4 on Netflix

Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #685 on: October 17, 2018, 01:44:05 PM »
:he’d add
I finally blew threw the 3 seasons of this show that are available on Netflix. I freaking love it.   

Chuck :(

There are 4 on Netflix

In the US? They must have just added season 4 then because I wrapped up season 3 last week and there were no other episodes.

Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #686 on: October 17, 2018, 02:11:07 PM »
:he’d add
I finally blew threw the 3 seasons of this show that are available on Netflix. I freaking love it.   

Chuck :(

There are 4 on Netflix


In the US? They must have just added season 4 then because I wrapped up season 3 last week and there were no other episodes.

Oh, no, sorry.

In LATAM. I forgot in the US it airs on AMC

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #687 on: October 18, 2018, 07:15:12 AM »
Finally started watching, I'm four episodes in. I guess it was a good thing to wait for the series to be over, otherwise waiting for a week each time would have felt so sloooooow, given the equally slow pace of the episodes.

I don't mind it at all, they've built a world that was already grounded in the BB universe, so they've earned the right to take their time in telling the stories, but I can see how some people may not be patient and consider it all a slow drag.

Also, I'm happy to see all the BB characters, but at times it feels they're sidelining Jimmy's story. There's more stuff going on at times with Gus and Nacho than with Jimmy and Kim.

Some short considerations so far...

Episode 1, Smoke: Damn, that cold opening! the feeling of paranoia was so intense. Also very heavy scenes with Jimmy finding out, and then shrugging it off as soon as Howard took blame for that.

Episode 2, Breathe: Some good dark comedy moments for Jimmy winning the job and then refusing it because the guys are gullible. Also, HOLY FRACKING FRACK Gus enlisting Nacho!!! and Kim tearing a new one to Howard... very intense scene.

Episode 3, Something Beautiful: Very BB-esque opening with the setup for the "ambush" in the desert. Poor Nacho.

Episode 4, Talk: "Fucking Salamancas"  :lol as Nacho said when he suggested they'd return to the hideout of the rivals, and then the cousins went full Terminator and killed the entire compound all by themselves.

Now I'm looking forward to see what Mike will do with Gus, his scenes of taking way too seriously than anyone would have ever expected his fake job as security consultant were priceless.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #688 on: October 18, 2018, 08:09:09 AM »
Okay, maybe that part of my retort wasn't very well thought out, because now that both of you are saying that, it actually makes sense.

The last couple of scenes with Nacho still leave me wondering what the hell happened though and the fact the series at this point is essentially 2 or 3 stories running together, instead of one bigger story has gone unanswered, so I'm assuming you guys agree with me on that part.



Maybe I'm just not very good at looking further into a tv series.
Just going back to this, I agree that Nacho's change seems to have been quite sudden and, unlike with other changes, I don't feel like I've understood it. But then it happened during the montage that covered a number of months, so it wasn't sudden in character terms, we just don't (yet) know what happened during that period. There's another season where they may explore that a bit more, so I'm not jumping to judgement.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #689 on: October 24, 2018, 04:06:14 AM »
Catching up, I'm at the 8th episode, the one with the road trip to Louisiana to deliver all the fake letters for Huell.

Damn, this was one of the best episodes of the season! it was surprising to see Kim in the end "breaking bad", you figure that Jimmy takes the Saul antics too far and Kim dumps him but no.... Jimmy wants to stop and Kim says "Let's do it again". It's the dark side of her that she always managed to keep at bay, but that is actually there, and literally turns her on.

I'm afraid this is now will be her undoing, not something Jimmy does - it's from the early episodes of the fiest season that one realizes that Kim isn't anywhere in Breaking Bad and that SOMETHING must happen, now I'm afraid she'll bring ruin unto herself.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #690 on: October 26, 2018, 02:11:42 AM »
Aaaand I finally watched it all. Man, what a finale!

I'm glad I waited for the season to be over to watch it, because it slowed down considerably in the middle episodes (as pointed out previously) and only the excellent performances kept it from actually draggining. I hope also the storylines will converge because by now the show is basically 50% Better Call Saul and 50% Breaking Bad prequel, Jimmy and Mike had a single scene together in the whole season!

I never imagined I could feel so bad for the german engineer. Poor guy. His final scene was beautifully shot, with the New Mexico stars at night, it was almost poetic, he got a beautiful sendoff. And what a badass was Mike as he was dealing with Lalo, losing him in the parking spot (only for Lalo to brutally push away the car in front of him, lol).

As for Jimmy, I thought the "I start to read the letter and then I stop" was a stunt he pre-arranged with Kim, but it was actually him going off on his own. Kim had the "who is this person I'm talking to?" look on her face as he Saul Goodman-ed his way into the attorneys' office.

And for the comments about Better Call Saul being better than Breaking Bad... well, they're both great shows so it's glad that people love BCS that much, but I think that BCS is this great BECAUSE it came off Breaking Bad.

BB had to create its world, conquer his fans, find his way through unpredictable situations (Jesse was meant to be killed in season 1 and the writers strike prevented that, along with the writers falling in love with Aaron Paul's performance). Better Call Saul builds on the world Breaking Bad created, re-uses its characters and has the wisdom and knowledge of what works and what doesn't that BB couldn't afford.

In short, I think that calling BCS better than BB is not too much dissimilar from a situation when someone calls a cover song better than the original. Sure, there might be cover songs which are played tighter, better, with a more modern production if the original is old, and maybe the singer is even better than the original (basically any Black Sabbath cover  :biggrin: ), but still, the original song is what was actually created and composed. It's easier to make a nice version of a great song someone else wrote than write it yourself. I will never be annoyed at any praise that BCS deservingly gets, and it's not a "cover" of BB, but it can exist BECAUSE of Breaking Bad. A new show about a sleazy lawyer starting from scratch with no one of the BB cast AND writing team would not go this far.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 04:58:28 AM by MirrorMask »
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #691 on: October 26, 2018, 08:10:39 AM »
^
Since there are no 'Like' buttons, I'm just commenting here to say that I really enjoyed reading the above.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #692 on: November 05, 2018, 09:18:31 AM »
Watch Mike from ‘Better Call Saul’ in a bizarre 1980s motivational video https://dangerousminds.net/comments/watch_mike_from_better_call_saul_in_a_bizarre_1980s_motivational_video

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #693 on: November 05, 2018, 12:11:21 PM »
That was ... rather strange. I obviously did not watch all of it, but the few minutes I did see were very weird indeed.
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #694 on: November 07, 2018, 06:59:21 PM »
yeah the Mike and Gus Web Series videos are a hoot.

which btw, I was watching an episode of Deep Space 9 last night and who was in the guest cast, none other than Jonathan Banks. A few weeks back, I saw another episode with the actor who plays Tuco.

Breaking Deep Space Saul

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #695 on: December 13, 2018, 09:20:34 AM »
I certainly enjoyed the season, and it's still a top notch series, but I agree with Kev that this season was something of a letdown. I don't think it was really the absence of Chuck, though. They just took a different approach, I think. Lalo is an interesting guy, and I think he's going to be fantastic in season 5. My kind of badguy.

Yes indeed, I will scoff at that claim. ;)

A better ensemble of actors?  Well, in the sense that Better Call Saul is more of an ensemble than a show with a true lead character (Odenkirk is a far better supporting actor than lead), it could be debatable, but pound for pound, BB wins easily, IMO.  Not counting the characters who were on both shows (since that can be considered a wash), BB had Bryan Cranston, who gave what some, including both Anthony Hopkins and myself, would call the greatest acting performance ever.  His performance alone elevates it.  And then of course there is Aaron Paul, who was brilliant as well; I would say he was the 2nd best from either show, so already BB has, IMO, by far the top 2 performances from either show.  Moving forward, I would say Anna Gunn and Rhea Seehorn were equally good, although I suspect many who disliked Skylar for some bizarre reason would not give Gunn props for her performance as a result. And let's not forget Dean Norris, who turned what could have been a stereotypical tough guy cop/DEA agent character into a complex one.  Michael McKean was awesome as Chuck, and Michael Mando and Patrick Fabian are really good in their roles, but Breaking Bad just seemed filled with once in a lifetime performances in a once in a lifetime show.
I'm one of those people who hated Skylar, but that wouldn't have been the case if Gunn didn't do such a fine job with the character. I really dig Wexler, but not really because of Seehorn's portrayal (tight-fitting lawyer pants excepted). I generally agree with your assessment here, but I think McKean's performance is right up there with Walt and Jesse. I never felt particularly emotionally involved with Walt. Every week NcKean had me alternatively despising and empathizing with Chuck. Culminating with his death that hammered home that duality in a big, big way.


Howard looked like a total mess at the end, too. Did Kim scolding him mess him up that badly? Wow.
I was figuring on "wracked with guilt."  He certainly blamed himself for Howard's death (as did I), and he handled the whole thing pretty poorly after the fact. I also gather he'd turned into a hapless drunk.


It's not just me, though!  Several co-workers are totally bored with the show, to the point where one has all but given up on it, and the other takes the "I guess I'll watch it since I'm already invested" attitude.  A friend texted me yesterday, "Wow, Saul kinda sucks now."  And my cousin texted me the other day saying he and his wife finally started watching this season and are not liking it either.  At this point, literally every single person I talk to on a somewhat regularly basis (at least) who watches the show is incredibly disappointed with it it.
Not just you. I was never bored with the show, but this season was definitely less than the previous 3. It wasn't bad, and it had scenes that rivaled any from the series, but overall it was slower and had less actual content. Even the ending was a letdown for me. I know everybody has been waiting for the "Transformation," and there you got it. To me it was nothing more than the DBA he requested from the woman.


The Babineaux thing was...quite funny, but very improbable. Why would Kim even want to start helping Jimmy for keeping Huell out of jil? She has basically no interest whatsoever. Huell is a minor character and pretty much a nobody at best, so for her to get into serious trouble over this makes no sense at all to me. The stint they (Kim & Jimmy) pulled was pretty good though, but Kim saying 'Let's do it again' at the end has me worried for her. Saul's going to drag her down with him, which is not what I would like to see.
The girl's an adrenaline junky and never knew it. Danger turns her on (literally). I never really had much question about her motivation, which started as soon as she became Giselle. We see it reflected in her growing boredom with the law. As Judge Neelix pointed out she's looking for something to restore her passion in it. Working PD certainly helps, but working the system has a better payoff.

It hadn't occurred to me until now, but Giselle is Saul. While people have been clamoring for some mystical transformation from Jimmy to Saul, it's Kim who's undergoing the transformation from good girl to criminal lawyer.


At this point, I will be shocked if we do not see Kim in Jimmy's post-BB life.  Heck, she could have been in his life the whole time during BB; it's not like they ever showed any aspect of Saul's personal life.
This was my prediction from the get-go. There's a reason he went to Omaha. I'm hoping she just randomly decides she wants a cinnamon roll. He'd have one helluva story to tell her.


Now, it's clear that Werner didn't know the full scope of who and what he was dealing with, otherwise Mike's original warning (after he shot his mouth off in the bar) would have sunk in and stuck.
Yep. I felt bad for Werner, as in the end he was simply naive. He really didn't understand who he was dealing with.
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Mike choosing to do it himself was his way of letting Werner go out with a quick death, instead of Gus' guys doing it (and that would not have been quick).
That was part of it. I think Mike was accepting responsibility. He liked Werner, he was a good guy, so while giving him a quick out was certainly one aspect, penance was another, and being the responsible party was a third.


yeah the Mike and Gus Web Series videos are a hoot.

which btw, I was watching an episode of Deep Space 9 last night and who was in the guest cast, none other than Jonathan Banks. A few weeks back, I saw another episode with the actor who plays Tuco.

Breaking Deep Space Saul
Never made either of those connections. With Banks I just don't recall the episode well. Not one I've seen in ages. As for Tuco, I never made the connection, but as soon as you mentioned it I thought there was really only one episode he would have fit into, and I was right.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson