Author Topic: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)  (Read 112914 times)

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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #350 on: April 13, 2016, 06:50:41 AM »
Jimmy is doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Chuck is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. I empathize with Jimmy and think Chuck is an ass hole who has gone out of the way to sabotage Jimmy several times.

Regardless, this has surpassed Breaking Bad for me.

Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #351 on: April 13, 2016, 08:50:04 AM »
Jimmy is doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Chuck is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. I empathize with Jimmy and think Chuck is an ass hole who has gone out of the way to sabotage Jimmy several times.

Regardless, this has surpassed Breaking Bad for me.
I agree with all of this.

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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #352 on: April 13, 2016, 09:11:57 AM »
I'll just leave this here

Quote
Fifi
Rebecca
Inflatable
Nailed
Gloves Off
Switch
Bali Ha'i
Amarillo
Cobbler
Klick

Coincidence?
Quite possibly, given that isn't the episode order. If it's intentional, that's a damn obscure clue. :lol

Oh I definitely think it's intentional. The odds alone that the first episode title would contain one out of those ten letters is just worse than a coin flip. I don't have time to work out all the permutations for the actual odds that this is a coincidence, but they're quite small.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #353 on: April 13, 2016, 09:25:49 AM »
The chance of it being that specific combination of letters, sure, that'd be small, but until we see Fring we have no reason to think that the combination of letters means anything. The odds of having a combination of letters that could be an anagram for something from BB wouldn't be that long.

EDIT: That said, I understand that Gilligan has always liked to play around with episode titles, including anagrams (e.g. Felina = Finale) so that probably makes it less likely that it's just coincidence.

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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #354 on: April 13, 2016, 09:45:56 AM »
Yeah, I can't think the titles starting with this combination of letters is a coincidence, and I can't see why Gilligan would do that unless the chicken man is showing up next week.

I'm going to be seriously mad now if he's not there next week :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #355 on: April 13, 2016, 04:09:35 PM »
Jimmy is doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Chuck is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. I empathize with Jimmy and think Chuck is an ass hole who has gone out of the way to sabotage Jimmy several times.

Regardless, this has surpassed Breaking Bad for me.

The bolded is a great way to put it.

No way it is surpassing BB, in my eyes.   

BTW, I loved the Abbey Road look of Jimmy and his crew when they crossed the street on the way to that school to take the picture.  :lol :lol :lol

Also, I am not worried about Jimmy being irredeemable if Chuck dies or is a shell of what he has already become.  I have faith that the writers will find a way to make Jimmy likable as heck again, regardless.  To compare (BB spoiler below):



BB spoiler: for those of us who watched that, Walt should have been irredeemable after he watched Jane die, but many of us still rooted for him after that, even as he kept doing far worse things (poisoning Brock, for example).

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #356 on: April 15, 2016, 05:40:10 AM »
Jimmy is doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Chuck is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I'm not getting this.  The only reasons I'm seeing is he wanted to impress Chuck and Kim.  Now he wants to do it to "gloat" over Chuck and impress Kim.  By impress, I mean set the conditions to *get some*.

Sandpiper:  This wasn't about the clients so much as it was to impress Chuck and Kim.  Didn't work with Chuck and when it didn't guarantee Kim nookie, he didn't care and refused the Davis & Main offer.  He didn't reconsider until Kim slept with him again.  Did commercial using the short-sighted process.  When all is said and done, he stops caring about Sandpiper and forces his firing.  Not to save Sandpiper, but for his own needs.

Mesa Verde:  He doesn't care about this client's best interest.  In fact, causes a 6 week hardship just so they go back to Kim.  Hardly the right reason - impress Kim, get some, make sure she has a client to help pay their overhead.

I'm just not seeing these "right reasons".  I am for Chuck, however.  Nothing is black and white so I can find it both ways for both characters, but on the average, I don't see Jimmy doing things for the right reasons.  Care to share some right reason decisions?

Offline orcus116

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #357 on: April 15, 2016, 05:32:13 PM »
The right reasons is that Jimmy is looking out for Jimmy because no one else will (mainly because of his own doing though). He is a wolf, not a sheep.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #358 on: April 15, 2016, 06:00:46 PM »
The right reasons is that Jimmy is looking out for Jimmy because no one else will (mainly because of his own doing though). He is a wolf, not a sheep.

I'm not really seeing that though.

Chuck did look out for him.  Just because Jimmy shouldn't be a lawyer doesn't mean Chuck has blocked every path.

Kim looks out for him. She encourages and helps him pass the bar.

Howard helped Jimmy.

Davis and Main helped Jimmy.

The dude is getting help left and right.  They only stop helping him because he craps all over them.  It was all summed up with

"For what it's worth, Cliff, I think you're a nice guy."

"For what it's worth, I think you're an asshole."

This show is kind of a rorschach test

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #359 on: April 15, 2016, 09:10:12 PM »
Finally caught up with this season and I can't believe how awesome it's been so far. This is like Fargo season 2 and I've loved every second of it. I can't compare this show to BB, I think both as very different kind of shows and both are awesome. I'm just very glad they've given a lot more character depth to  Mike, Kim and Nacho. I think Vince Gilligan really nailed it in telling a simple story with such great depth and an excellent compelling visual style.

Can't wait for the season finale on Monday.
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Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #360 on: April 15, 2016, 09:22:53 PM »
This is like Fargo season 2 and I've loved every second of it.

Maybe I should find some time to watch that show.

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #361 on: April 15, 2016, 10:31:38 PM »
This is like Fargo season 2 and I've loved every second of it.

Maybe I should find some time to watch that show.

You should.

Offline axeman90210

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #362 on: April 15, 2016, 11:20:43 PM »
^ What he said. Fantastic show.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #363 on: April 16, 2016, 01:32:40 AM »
I watched the first episode of Fargo, it really annoyed me pretty much all the way through so I didn't continue. I've been meaning to try again at some point though.

Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #364 on: April 16, 2016, 02:04:16 AM »
Chuck did look out for him.  Just because Jimmy shouldn't be a lawyer doesn't mean Chuck has blocked every path.
Strongly disagree, and I don't see why "Jimmy shouldn't be a lawyer", other than because Chuck doesn't want him to be.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #365 on: April 16, 2016, 07:41:06 AM »
One could easily make the argument that anyone who does what Jimmy just did - intentionally sabotaging the client of a major law firm, a client who is now screwed, simply because Jimmy wanted to impress his lawyer girlfriend - should not be a lawyer.  In fact, had Kim did what Chuck wanted her to, outing what Jimmy did to the higher-ups, it is more than likely that, if proven, Jimmy would be disbarred.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #366 on: April 16, 2016, 07:48:16 AM »
This is like Fargo season 2 and I've loved every second of it.

Maybe I should find some time to watch that show.

You should.
Yes you should.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #367 on: April 16, 2016, 07:50:00 AM »
What kind of annoyed me about the whole thing is that Chuck described exactly what happened down to the last detail even though he was highly incapacitated during the entire thing. I understand the show is demonstrating how sharp of a lawyer he is but I kind of rolled my eyes when the three of them met because it just felt too convenient and the audience was robbed of something. I hope Chuck doesn't recover from the end of the last episode and is just offed from the show because I can't stand his character.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #368 on: April 16, 2016, 09:20:10 PM »
I'll try never to put an episode slightly down for seeming 'slow', because the development of the characters and story lines pop one hell of a wallop the following week.  An understatement in describing Episode 9.

I thought of 'Abbey Road' during the walk. I want you......to watch this.          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sLHKWNKY50

Wish there were 13 episodes per season.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #369 on: April 18, 2016, 10:35:15 PM »
Saw Chuck's 'moment' from a mile away.  But, it was still quite an ending.  He has 'Slippin' Jimmy' in his blood as well, but with hate and malice.

Mike's note was the big unexpected moment of the show.

Only 42 weeks til season 3.......
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 07:49:44 AM by DragonAttack »
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Online faizoff

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #370 on: April 18, 2016, 11:29:23 PM »
Great episode, I loved it. As for the note on Mike's car I believe there's a clue in the episode titles with some creative rearrangement :biggrin:

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Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #371 on: April 19, 2016, 02:20:47 AM »
Interesting ending.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #372 on: April 19, 2016, 02:54:47 AM »
Great episode, I loved it. As for the note on Mike's car I believe there's a clue in the episode titles with some creative rearrangement :biggrin:

Fifi
Rebecca
Inflatable
Nailed
Gloves off
Switch
Bali Hai'i
Amarillo
Cobbler
Klick

could be Brick Fangs.  Or Frick Bangs.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #373 on: April 19, 2016, 09:04:10 AM »
Saw Chuck's 'moment' from a mile away.  But, it was still quite an ending.  He has 'Slippin' Jimmy' in his blood as well, but with hate and malice.

Mike's note was the big unexpected moment of the show.

Yeah, I actually thought to myself when he was digging through the trunk with chop sticks that he was looking for a recorder....then once he started in the way he did on Jimmy it was pretty obvious he was playing to Jimmy's weakness to always 'protect' and care for him.

and that note to Mike....I've never watched BB so I don't know if that'd had been from a character from that show that is to come or not....still pretty chilling being that Mike seemingly always has the upper hand.
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Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #374 on: April 19, 2016, 02:44:31 PM »
I really like how they are setting up a plausible foundation for what seemed like an odd dual role for Mike in Breaking Bad. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #375 on: April 19, 2016, 06:34:17 PM »
I think Gus had one of his guys put the note on Mike's car.  We still might not see Gus for a while, but we all know that Gus always kept tabs on Hector, and therefore is keeping tabs on Mike already.  It's just a matter of time before we see him.

Last night did a great job of already showing Jimmy as a sympathetic character, after they took him the other way last week...saying to hell with the plan and rushing in to help Chuck at the copy place, staying by his side at the hospital, refusing to commit him because he knew it was the wrong thing to do, admitting to what he did when he saw Chuck in pain over his "mistake" (even though it was staged by Chuck), etc.

I kind of saw Chuck recording it coming, since it seemed out of character for him suddenly to be so down on himself.

Overall, a good finale.  Not great, but good.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #376 on: April 19, 2016, 06:37:31 PM »
I know Jimmy did a really crappy thing but I fucking hate Chuck and want nothing but the worst for him. I think it has more to do with really disliking someone who is confounded by the idea of making a mistake.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #377 on: April 19, 2016, 06:39:48 PM »
I'd say Jimmy did more than a crappy thing; he did an illegal thing, one that could land him in prison (although we know that won't happen).  He is well on his way to becoming the criminal lawyer we all know and enjoy. :coolio

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #378 on: April 19, 2016, 06:53:31 PM »
I really like how they are setting up a plausible foundation for what seemed like an odd dual role for Mike in Breaking Bad. 
What about his role seems oddly dual? It seems like they're setting up and have shown his dislike for the Salamanca clan which would then align right into joining Fring. Doesn't seem like anything oddly dual to me. Unless I'm missing something.
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Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #379 on: April 19, 2016, 07:24:03 PM »
What about his role seems oddly dual?

In Breaking Bad, he worked for both Gus and Saul.  It was talked about quite a bit as it became more developed.  Better Call Saul is really filling in how this dynamic evolved.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #380 on: April 19, 2016, 07:27:37 PM »
I know Jimmy did a really crappy thing but I fucking hate Chuck and want nothing but the worst for him. I think it has more to do with really disliking someone who is confounded by the idea of making a mistake.

Consider that last night was a taste of Jimmy getting a taste of his own medicine.  Being a Slippin' Jimmy can sometimes be mistaken for just a guy being smart about life.  And in some ways it is.  But the more important ingredient is having the ability to not give a shit about the consequences one causes.  In Jimmy's case, it is even beyond that.  He isn't just not giving a shit, they've established he is completely unaware.

So if you hate Chuck for what he did, then you essentially hate Jimmy.

Online faizoff

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #381 on: April 19, 2016, 07:30:33 PM »
What about his role seems oddly dual?

In Breaking Bad, he worked for both Gus and Saul.  It was talked about quite a bit as it became more developed.  Better Call Saul is really filling in how this dynamic evolved.
Ah I misread your initial comment. I thought you meant Gus and Salamanca for some reason.
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Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #382 on: April 19, 2016, 07:34:12 PM »
Interesting poll.  How many know a Jimmy in their lives (past or present)?  How many know a Chuck?  With the caveat that TV does tend to show more extreme cases, so they don't necessarily have to be as far gone as Chuck or Jimmy, but in the ballpark.

If you think about it, they have the same problem, but just with two different solutions.

Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #383 on: April 20, 2016, 04:13:58 AM »
I know Jimmy did a really crappy thing but I fucking hate Chuck and want nothing but the worst for him. I think it has more to do with really disliking someone who is confounded by the idea of making a mistake.

Consider that last night was a taste of Jimmy getting a taste of his own medicine.  Being a Slippin' Jimmy can sometimes be mistaken for just a guy being smart about life.  And in some ways it is.  But the more important ingredient is having the ability to not give a shit about the consequences one causes.  In Jimmy's case, it is even beyond that.  He isn't just not giving a shit, they've established he is completely unaware.

So if you hate Chuck for what he did, then you essentially hate Jimmy.
This makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't understand how you can assert that Jimmy doesn't care when he was so focussed on his brother's wellbeing that 1. he rushed to help him, and 2. he fell for Chuck's trap and confessed.

This episode solidified Chuck's status as a total bastard. :lol We now know that it's not just that he doesn't care - he has had a grudge against Jimmy for a while, and one that Jimmy is entirely unaware of. And he also knows full well that Jimmy cares about him, but abuses that knowledge to get him to confess.

Anyway, great episode.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #384 on: April 20, 2016, 05:34:04 AM »
This makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't understand how you can assert that Jimmy doesn't care when he was so focussed on his brother's wellbeing that 1. he rushed to help him, and 2. he fell for Chuck's trap and confessed.
1.  His brother's wellbeing was put in harm's way by Jimmy himself.  When Chuck helped Jimmy, it was not because Chuck put him in that situation.  Chuck is far from perfect.  In fact, as I said earlier, they are a lot alike.  They just go about tearing the other down in different ways.
2.  He got Jimmy'd.  And the first time he gets Jimmy'd, he suddenly is worse than Jimmy's lifetime of Jimmy scams?

Jimmy had so many opportunities to come clean, but he literally lied to Chuck's face as Chuck came out of his catatonic state in a hospital bed.  That's low.

On top of all of this, Jimmy's scan was not for the right reason.  Why did Kim deserve the client more than HHM?  The client was secured while Kim was an employee.  They serviced the client well, whereas Jimmy hurt the client.

And why should Chuck just "admit he made a mistake and move on" when he didn't create the mistake.  Jimmy lecturing Chuck on that was vomit inducing.  Mesa Verde couldn't just move on.  HHM's reputation couldn't just move on.  Chuck is making a return to work and this puts his *faculties* in question.

Jimmy isn't entirely unaware of Chuck's grudge.  In fact, he blames everything on Chuck, even when Chuck is not the culprit (Kim's doghouse).  Kim even talks about Jimmy gloating over Chuck on multiple occasions.  Jimmy's grudge with Chuck is every bit as bad as Chuck's.  Except Chuck has quite a few legitimate reasons for the grudge.  Jimmy's grudge is that Chuck doesn't think Jimmy would be a good lawyer.  He's right.  There's a trail of proof a mile wide.

What if proof of sabotage can help Mesa Verde recover.  That the proven circumstances allow that provisional path.  Would that not be actually the right thing to do?  And unfortunately for Kim, her relationship to Jimmy will hurt her in this case.  She might immediately become persona non grata.  That is all on Jimmy.

As far as Jimmy and Kim, he isn't looking out for her best interest.  Her best interest was to take that other job.  It was a great opportunity.  But that would mean she's even further from his social circle, which reduces his chance to end up with her long term.  Let's not even get into the fact that he also derailed her at HHM.

Quote
This episode solidified Chuck's status as a total bastard. :lol We now know that it's not just that he doesn't care - he has had a grudge against Jimmy for a while, and one that Jimmy is entirely unaware of. And he also knows full well that Jimmy cares about him, but abuses that knowledge to get him to confess.
Kind of like when Jimmy sent Ernesto away so he could sabotage Chuck, even leaving him alone unattended.  Jimmy put Chuck's life in danger on multiple occasions.  Chuck is just making Jimmy answer to his own actions.

And this is why the series is so great, like Breaking Bad.  All the characters have flaws as well as impressive traits.  And a lot of it is not based off one moment, but a series of forks in the road.  Where a lie is needed to cover another lie and so on.  And although some events/characteristics might be exaggerated, most seem quite relatable and plausible.