Author Topic: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)  (Read 112992 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #280 on: March 08, 2016, 08:15:59 PM »
It was good, but the Tuco scene was completely ridiculous.  Given how cautious we know Mike to be, there is no way he would do what he did there for a measly 25K, especially when Tuco could have easily just pulled out his gun and shot him in the head in an instant instead of merely using him as a punching bag.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #281 on: March 08, 2016, 08:17:01 PM »
Tuco did pull his gun out.  Mike quickly disarmed him.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #282 on: March 08, 2016, 08:19:34 PM »
Okay, but there is no way of knowing if Tuco would have done that before they were that close to each other, meaning Mike could not have disarmed him before getting shot.  My main point is, too much risk there for something to go wrong.  It's not just something we ever see Mike do.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #283 on: March 08, 2016, 08:48:01 PM »
It's not that I don't see your point, I'm just saying they actually addressed what you said.

He was very "old man" non-confrontational before they were in close proximity.  First acting the confused old man, but not calling Tuco a liar.  Then offering to exchange insurance information.  He stepped it up when they were at arms length and stepped it up even further when the cops were very close (as per the sirens closing in the near distance).  Then he even taunted him when the cops were out of their cars.

Would Tuco just pull out his gun and shoot Mike the minute he walked in after hitting the car?  That seems more like taking Tuco's personality too far.  Yes, he's a hot head.  But if he literally just shot everybody that wronged him *unintentionally* in broad daylight, he would have already been in prison long before last night's episode.

It was actually very intelligently handled.  Especially since this is also Mike's journey to Breaking Bad hit man / bad ass.  He wouldn't have taken the assignment at all if not for the financial need.  But he isn't ready to be a full on hit man ... or even break legs as he said last episode.

On a different note, I liked the starting with Mike's injuries and envelope of money.  My first thought was that possibly Nacho set him up on a mission doomed to failure to teach Mike his place.

It is great how they are hammering home Saul's big flaw.  He has very good short term strategy, but lacks the bigger picture.  Especially how is actions affect others.  His brother was right in his critique.  And it is a perfect flaw for a con man.  Eventually, somebody you conned is going to cross your path again and look for some revenge.  And it shows a sociopath tendency.  Many people don't do the con not just for fear of getting caught, but because it bothers them when they get away with it too.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #284 on: March 08, 2016, 08:53:49 PM »
Oh, I definitely agree that Chuck is mostly right about Jimmy/Saul, but of course we are conditioned to root for Jimmy, so just like we were for Walt on BB.  Serious lawyers and firms take ethics and doing every little thing according to procedure correctly, so the reaction of both firms was totally realistic.  And the fact that Jimmy doesn't get it shows why he is Saul Goodman.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #285 on: March 08, 2016, 09:19:25 PM »
I thought the point was hammered home with the partner's talking about how that commercial might be great for short term gains on Saul's case (as in he started it, even though it is the firm's case now), but it could be damaging to the rest of their clientele.  At that point, it was clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that Saul was 100% in the wrong and wasn't even "proving his point" by doing it his way.  I even thought Saul might come back with "I'm really sorry.  I realize I might have let my focus blind me to the bigger picture."  When he didn't, it was a big moment in his character development (for the story, not his progression).

Even his worry for Kim has a lot to do with her liking him (or even the chance of her still liking him at this point).  If she made it clear that he will never be her friend again ... well ...

And it plays in with that moment in Breaking Bad where he tells Walter what a self-centered jerk he is.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #286 on: March 09, 2016, 07:55:43 AM »
Oh, I definitely agree that Chuck is mostly right about Jimmy/Saul, but of course we are conditioned to root for Jimmy, so just like we were for Walt on BB.  Serious lawyers and firms take ethics and doing every little thing according to procedure correctly, so the reaction of both firms was totally realistic.  And the fact that Jimmy doesn't get it shows why he is Saul Goodman.

Totally this. Jimmy sees nothing wrong with what he is doing although 'we' can see it, but we don't care because 'we' can see his point. The big time law firms can't and don't want to see his point because as you said, they are perfect to the 'T' when it comes to procedure so Jimmy's methods are going to cost him in that respect.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #287 on: March 10, 2016, 04:23:36 PM »
Another superb, but tough episode.

Shame on me......I wish there was a third person we were following. I don't want to lose some of the 'specialness' of Mike by having him on too much (if that makes sense).  Would have preferred him keeping that last comment to himself, just for his own sake.

Jimmy becoming Saul is now resting on him.  Works a bit better when the obstacles are created by others (such as last season).  But it's still early in the game.

I read where the gun dealer appears later with Mike, and is the one Walter bought the M60 from.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #288 on: March 10, 2016, 04:45:13 PM »
Shame on me......I wish there was a third person we were following. I don't want to lose some of the 'specialness' of Mike by having him on too much (if that makes sense). 
I hadn't thought that, but I get it (I think).  Sometimes you want an enigma to keep some of their mystery?  A 3rd person would mean 33% less screen time for Mike (assuming they split it evenly).  Personally, I like that Mike's path is similar but different to Saul's (and Walt's).  So far Saul is the closest to retaining his "sainthood" (even for a hitman).

Quote
Would have preferred him keeping that last comment to himself, just for his own sake.
This I'm not positive which comment you mean.  I'm going to assume the "that's all ya got?" or whatever it exactly was comment?  I thought that was to have Tuco assault him in plain view of the police (thereby not requiring him to testify to get a conviction).

Quote
Jimmy becoming Saul is now resting on him.  Works a bit better when the obstacles are created by others (such as last season).  But it's still early in the game.
It is very similar to Walt's journey into the abyss.  Life screwed him (cancer).  He tried to do it the *right* way, but it became clear very quickly the right way was the wrong way (he'd probably die of cancer (first go round) and leave nothing but financial ruin.)

But when the cancer went away and he had *enough* money, he lost the sympathy.  But the writing really left us with what people always tend to say about somebody "broke bad".   "You just don't know him like we did.  He used to be a good man.  Things went south and he got caught up in it and was down the path never to return before he even realized how he got there."  In this case, it is the viewer somewhat saying that. 

Jimmy tried to do it right and wasn't getting anywhere.  So he got *creative*.  His work paid off and we find him basically set up in the job one would assume somebody in that position would want.  He had to get it to realize it isn't just about the prestige of accepted success (to him).  He needs the rush.  He's doing it because he likes it.  And it is a sociopath journey because others around him are paying for his rush.

Despite all that, it is hardly a reboot of Breaking Bad.  Love the show.  And love talking about it with others.  I don't make much of an effort to spot the cameos, so it is nice coming here to see some I may have missed.  A google search is more effective, but that takes all the fun out of it.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #289 on: March 10, 2016, 05:13:36 PM »
I don't make a point to look for cameos or nods to BB, but I usually catch them.

Crazy-8 the other day, for example.

And I recognized the arms dealer immediately as the guy Walt bought a gun from (twice).

Offline Train of Naught

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #290 on: March 13, 2016, 03:52:16 AM »
Just caught up with this show, I saw most of season 1 when it aired but for some reason just stopped. Found myself re-watching Breaking Bad 2 years later and ending up with BCS again. I was surprised to see we're only 4 episodes into the new season, a 2 year break is pretty damn long (it might've been announced but I didn't know about it).

Loved Breaking Bad when I first saw it, and re-watching the entire thing for the second time surprisingly made it even better. I don't like this show just as much but it's very enjoyable and stands on its own pretty well. Though I gotta say, it's fun to spot out the many references made to BB, and I loved seeing Krazy-8 again in the latest episode.

I guess since not everyone who watches this show has seen Breaking Bad, we gotta be careful when making comparisons between the show to prevent spoilers right?
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #291 on: March 13, 2016, 08:15:39 AM »
I guess since not everyone who watches this show has seen Breaking Bad,

Not I. And I've enjoyed the show greatly.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #292 on: March 13, 2016, 09:45:48 AM »
Gary, you should watch Breaking Bad.  Knock it out in two weeks and report back. ;)

BB SPOILER BELOW




Also, and this isn't too much of a spoiler, but the first BB episode with Saul, in the scene where Walt and Jesse kidnap Saul, when he is on his knees at the start, Saul is yelling that it was Ignacio, not him, and we all know that Ignacio is Nacho's real first name (Mike said that to "Pryce" after the first buy in the Pimento episode), so we'll see where we go with that.  We already know that Mike and Saul will be tight later on in the sense of working together, and Nacho will still be involved for the duration, so it ought to be interesting to see where they go with that.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #293 on: March 13, 2016, 05:42:05 PM »
Gary, you should watch Breaking Bad.  Knock it out in two weeks and report back. ;)

I fully intend to. I'm trying to time it just right though. I know myself, I won't sleep until I get through it so I need to make sure I'm ready to put myself through that  :lol
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #294 on: March 14, 2016, 07:27:33 AM »
Mild Spoiler:



Evidently when Nacho is telling Mike about the former associate who Tuco murdered, it ties back exactly to something that Hank says Tuco is suspected of having done when Hank's giving his colleagues the rundown on Tuco in an early BB episode. Love the little continuity touches like that.
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Offline mike099

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #295 on: March 14, 2016, 11:52:43 AM »
This I'm not positive which comment you mean.  I'm going to assume the "that's all ya got?" or whatever it exactly was comment?  I thought that was to have Tuco assault him in plain view of the police (thereby not requiring him to testify to get a conviction).



What did Mike say before the final blow by Tuco.  I listened twice, but could not make it out.  It could have been what is above, but I thought that was earlier in the fight.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #296 on: March 14, 2016, 09:48:09 PM »
A slower, more 'foundational' episode tonight.  Maybe Kim will heed Jimmy's advice, considering how she was hosed.

Surprising appearance by someone whose name escapes me, but the face rings a bell.

[rim shot]
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #297 on: March 14, 2016, 11:05:14 PM »
I agree it was a slower paced episode tonight.  But this is the stuff I love.  It is like if a psychology class made a supplemental TV show.  The dynamics were so many that you could write a serious paper on this episode alone.

First, the role reversals for Saul and Kim were great.  Not only because it happened, because they were both similar and very different.  Kim created his situation and Saul created hers.

Next, the family dynamic.  And it was done as a great bookend.  Starting it showing the weakness of Chuck.  Chuck is very accomplished, but his people skills are lacking.  Even before the trauma.  And he is smart enough to see it, but emotional enough to not want to accept it.  At the end, Chuck encapsulated the problem with Saul and in a way, broke down more of his "bad guy" exterior.  Saul could be thought of as the black sheep, but that can hint that he doesn't necessarily have redeeming qualities or that their actions are premeditated and/or mean spirited.  Saul is the perfect character of the guy that gets bailed out by others no matter how many times they screw others over.  The answer to the question "why do you keep helping him/her." And also why the final break seems like an overreaction to those on the outside.  The ending of "look.  I love ya, but I've got to stop this."

The Saul bathroom meeting where perhaps he got to see what "the best case scenario" of walking away from what he currently has really means.  And the best part, you aren't even sure if an a ha moment happened for Saul.  He's had quite a few.  Going by his character, it probably did not.  Or if it did, it will be superficial and fleeting.  He's basically a messed up mix of heart and sociopath.  And it is a very realistic trait.  Better, it had the reverse dynamic of "if you only knew that I am in fact not living the high life."

The Howard pose at the business meeting.  It was a call back to Saul copying Howard's pose (and clothes and ...)  And again, not quite the same.  In fact, it can almost show why a person like Saul is better at Howard (the company image) than Howard.  Howard had some game with the small talk, but you could tell it was all fake on both ends.  Howard and the "mark" were somewhat job interviewing each other and they knew it.  Saul would have made it feel more natural.  That's why he gets the senior citizens like a pied piper.

And this is surface level discussion.  Why it might be "slower" paced (action wise), but was really a deeply enthralling episode.  Exciting even.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #298 on: March 14, 2016, 11:34:25 PM »
I was trying to keep it short, but the episode was so awesome it feels totally ignoring other very important parts.

The Kim is Jimmy section.  Where she is in the doghouse and burning the midnight oil to get out of it.  Jimmy working the public criminal cases would be the mirror.  He eventually had the "screw this" moment (and yet at the same time did not by bringing in the big class action lawsuit).

What makes this really dig deep into my involvement while watching is knowing exactly what Kim was going through.  For many, it might be a job interview.  Or the big break to get a promotion.  But I watched it as a salesperson/employer knowing that not only do you have to put yourself through what she did, but you get to do it all again.  And there really isn't time to say "I did it.  That was grueling.  Time to relax a bit."

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #299 on: March 15, 2016, 07:05:52 PM »


Surprising appearance by someone whose name escapes me, but the face rings a bell.

[rim shot]

Tio!

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #300 on: March 16, 2016, 03:58:36 PM »
Just watched the latest episode. That final scene could definitely be a game-changer here. I'm saying Tuco sent his uncle himself. Whatever Mike decides he's gonna be screwed in some way, either pissing off Nacho or Tuco. This will be interesting for sure. I'm thinking Jimmy/Saul will have a part in this little 'side-story' at some point. Remeber the second episode of season 1? That's probably going to repeat itself in one way or another.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #301 on: March 16, 2016, 04:04:08 PM »
Considering Tuco is not locked up and all these major players are alive in a few years on BB, we can rule out Tuco or his familia killing Mike.   ;)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #302 on: March 16, 2016, 04:40:31 PM »
And Mike eventually works for Gus, who hates the cartel, but still works with them nonetheless.

I can't wait to see how Hector ends up in that wheelchair.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #303 on: March 16, 2016, 04:55:31 PM »
And Mike eventually works for Gus, who hates the cartel, but still works with them nonetheless.

I can't wait to see how Hector ends up in that wheelchair.

There is a good chance they will show this, but I hope they don't feel the need to explain everything.

One thing that has been gnawing at me is the Saul and Walt separation scene where Saul lectures Walt the way others lecture Saul.

Offline Fiery Winds

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #304 on: March 16, 2016, 07:42:53 PM »
Mike has to take the deal and he knows it. As someone who just did this two episodes ago, he is foreseeing the stick coming swiftly if he refuses the carrot. It's uncanny (albeit intentional) how much Mike's journey parallel's Walt's. He tries to get some extra cash to help his family and gets pulled in too deep.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #305 on: March 16, 2016, 08:04:47 PM »
Absolutely.  The breaking bad journey of each of them is unique yet similar.

Will we have a pre-pre-series?  Tuco and Tio.  Tuco just used to be a sweet little dude and ....  :lol  Nope.  That series might just be called Born Bad.  Gus (chicken man) might be interesting however.  When all is said and done, he was much better at the drug trade than Walt.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #306 on: March 16, 2016, 10:20:53 PM »
"How many lawyers does it take to fix a lightbulb?"

Which takes you back to the opening scene of Chuck actually doing it himself (and putting on an album, and...)

Kim was superb.  The slow, foundational .....can work so well with Saul (and BB).  The scenes in the stairway, in the 'dungeon', looking down at her from the flagpole......

Saul referring to his shadow as a 'Stasi'.  One doesn't hear that often.

After reading a review, I was lucky to catch the end again.  The subtleties of this show that so often go unnoticed on the first viewing, because they are simple, everyday occurrences.  Mike at his table in the diner, viewed from the kitchen.  An order is ready, placed on the ledge, and .....'Ding!' 

No big deal.

Yeah, it IS a big deal.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #307 on: March 17, 2016, 05:49:31 AM »
The waitress in the diner was the same one from the BB episode where Mike met Lydia once.  I think her name was Fran.  It was when Lydia tried to act all non-suspicious by calling him Dwayne, and the waitress, already knowing Mike because he was obviously a regular, called him by his real name, making Lydia lower her head in shame. :lol :lol

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #308 on: March 17, 2016, 07:35:41 AM »
Considering Tuco is not locked up and all these major players are alive in a few years on BB, we can rule out Tuco or his familia killing Mike.   ;)

Of course, but we don't know how many years there are between BCS and BB. Tuco could still be locked up for some time in between. His appearance isn't that of the drug lord he's portrayed as in BB, so he still has some sort of development to go through as well. That doesn't mean stuff can happen.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #309 on: March 17, 2016, 08:06:31 AM »
Considering Tuco is not locked up and all these major players are alive in a few years on BB, we can rule out Tuco or his familia killing Mike.   ;)

Of course, but we don't know how many years there are between BCS and BB. Tuco could still be locked up for some time in between. His appearance isn't that of the drug lord he's portrayed as in BB, so he still has some sort of development to go through as well. That doesn't mean stuff can happen.

It isn't 8+ years, so we can assume something happens to make it less.  And unless there is a huge twist, that something would be the deal in some form.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #310 on: March 17, 2016, 08:09:46 AM »
^ No, it's probably only around 1-2 years, since Kayleigh will still be a child in BB.
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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #311 on: March 17, 2016, 08:15:09 AM »
I thought we were told at some point that it's five years? Unless I'm mistaken.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #312 on: March 17, 2016, 08:17:11 AM »
Makes you wonder how much prep before even the first episode of BCS was penned so they don't paint themselves into a corner that forces them to resolve poorly.

Has Vince set up a paranoia style room with pictures and string on a wall that will eventually drive him to insanity?   ;D

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #313 on: March 17, 2016, 08:18:00 AM »
I thought we were told at some point that it's five years? Unless I'm mistaken.

I think it was stated at some point.  But we don't have to hunt it down.  It absolutely was not 8+ years.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #314 on: March 17, 2016, 05:43:31 PM »
I believe it is 2002.  And BB began in 2008 and only took place over the span of two years exactly (with the first year taking four seasons plus - Walt's 50th was in Season 1, episode; his 51st was in Season 5, episode 4 or 5).