NFL Thread 2015 v. Please make deflategate posts in the thread named for it

[cramx3]

Ya I was thinking that earlier. I would like to hear one reason why Fitz is a downgrade at the position over Smith, aside from Smith's (alleged) upside.

Most likely this is a blessing in disguise for the Jets.

It's because Fitzpatrick at 32 years old is as good as he's ever going to be and is facing the point of his career when his skills start to deteriorate. He's not a guy you can build your team around and really isn't much better than Geno is in terms of turnovers. The difference is that Geo is only in his third year while Ryan is a seasoned veteran. Geno was doing really well and seemed to have a good grasp on the new offense. With Geno, there's still hope of him becoming a great player. He showed flashes of greatness at the end of last season and in this new offense he has a very good chance of continuing that success. With Ryan, you know what you're going to get and it's not enough to get them to the promised land.

Not bad points, but I don't see Geno as a legit top 15 QB in the league even with improvement.  I don't believe either of those guys are the future of the Jets so IMO they should try to win now since there is a lot of surrounding talent on that team.  They should have had Fitz the starter all off season.

[jingle.boy]

Geno will be seeing a surgeon specializing in J-A-W-S JAWS JAWS JAWS!

I expect nothing less from you J-O-S-H... JOSH JOSH JOSH.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

And Rex Ryan scooped Enemkpali right up.

[El Barto]

And Rex Ryan scooped Enemkpali right up.

I have to wonder if it's because he just doesn't care or if he actually knows that Geno Smith probably deserved it. Seriously, if you sign a player who just laid out his staring QB for 3 months then you really have to believe that it wasn't some spontaneous and unprovoked outburst. You've got to be able to rationalize it somehow, and the only way I see rationalizing such counterproductive conduct is if Geno Smith probably had it coming for one reason or another.

[KevShmev]

And Rex Ryan scooped Enemkpali right up.

No freaking way.  Seriously??

[El Barto]

Maybe he's just trying to scare the shit out of Tyrod Taylor.

[Skeever]

Ya I was thinking that earlier. I would like to hear one reason why Fitz is a downgrade at the position over Smith, aside from Smith's (alleged) upside.

Most likely this is a blessing in disguise for the Jets.

It's because Fitzpatrick at 32 years old is as good as he's ever going to be and is facing the point of his career when his skills start to deteriorate. He's not a guy you can build your team around and really isn't much better than Geno is in terms of turnovers. The difference is that Geo is only in his third year while Ryan is a seasoned veteran. Geno was doing really well and seemed to have a good grasp on the new offense. With Geno, there's still hope of him becoming a great player. He showed flashes of greatness at the end of last season and in this new offense he has a very good chance of continuing that success. With Ryan, you know what you're going to get and it's not enough to get them to the promised land.

Your entire post is pointing to this alleged "upside" Geno is supposed to have, which I don't think we've seen enough of. He's had scattered games here and there, but there's no guarantee he was going to become more consistent.

[black_biff_stadler]

Geno will be seeing a surgeon specializing in J-A-W-S JAWS JAWS JAWS!

I expect nothing less from you J-O-S-H... JOSH JOSH JOSH.

 

[KevShmev]

Your entire post is pointing to this alleged "upside" Geno is supposed to have, which I don't think we've seen enough of. He's had scattered games here and there, but there's no guarantee he was going to become more consistent.

Agreed. 

The more I hear about this story, the more both guys come off badly.  No, Geno Smith didn't deserved to get his jaw broken, but like Clint Eastwood once said, deserve's got nothing to do with it.  From most accounts, Smith's behavior about the $600 cause the situation to escalate, resulting in what happened.  Not victim blaming here, merely saying that his actions seem to have been a factor in the situation escalating as badly as it did.

[cramx3]

Your entire post is pointing to this alleged "upside" Geno is supposed to have, which I don't think we've seen enough of. He's had scattered games here and there, but there's no guarantee he was going to become more consistent.

Agreed. 

The more I hear about this story, the more both guys come off badly.  No, Geno Smith didn't deserved to get his jaw broken, but like Clint Eastwood once said, deserve's got nothing to do with it.  From most accounts, Smith's behavior about the $600 cause the situation to escalate, resulting in what happened.  Not victim blaming here, merely saying that his actions seem to have been a factor in the situation escalating as badly as it did.

Yea, now that the reports are out there about how this went down, Smith looks really bad.  Not that it justifies hitting someone, but Smith was a real dick and totally uncharacteristic of a franchise QB. 

[El Barto]

Your entire post is pointing to this alleged "upside" Geno is supposed to have, which I don't think we've seen enough of. He's had scattered games here and there, but there's no guarantee he was going to become more consistent.

Agreed. 

The more I hear about this story, the more both guys come off badly.  No, Geno Smith didn't deserved to get his jaw broken, but like Clint Eastwood once said, deserve's got nothing to do with it.  From most accounts, Smith's behavior about the $600 cause the situation to escalate, resulting in what happened.  Not victim blaming here, merely saying that his actions seem to have been a factor in the situation escalating as badly as it did.

Yea, now that the reports are out there about how this went down, Smith looks really bad.  Not that it justifies hitting someone, but Smith was a real dick and totally uncharacteristic of a franchise QB.

What did he do to prompt the beatdown? I haven't seen any details other than childish lockerroom antics.

[hefdaddy42]

Apparently, Smith had agreed to come and participate in a football camp being run by Captain Aggression, so the guy paid $600.00 for Smith's air fare.  Smith wound up having to cancel due to attending the funeral of a friend.  The other guy was looking to get reimbursed the $600.00, and for some reason Smith was being a dick about paying him back.

[Dark Castle]

Apparently, Smith had agreed to come and participate in a football camp being run by Captain Aggression, so the guy paid $600.00 for Smith's air fare.  Smith wound up having to cancel due to attending the funeral of a friend.  The other guy was looking to get reimbursed the $600.00, and for some reason Smith was being a dick about paying him back.

I've heard nobody died but that Genos brother broke some bones in a biking accident

[hefdaddy42]

The story I saw mentioned a funeral.

The point being, for whatever reason, he couldn't make the guy's camp, so the guy wanted to be reimbursed, which Geno didn't do.

[cramx3]

Not just that, Geno put his finger to his face and made physical contact saying something along the lines of "your not getting the money back"

[Big Hath]

Not just that, Geno put his finger to his face and made physical contact saying something along the lines of "your not getting the money back"

unfortunately he took it one step further when he uttered "nanny nanny boo boo" at which point he was punched

[hefdaddy42]

Not just that, Geno put his finger to his face and made physical contact saying something along the lines of "your not getting the money back"

unfortunately he took it one step further when he uttered "nanny nanny boo boo" at which point he was punched

Indeed.

Some lines shouldn't be crossed.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Who are the top 10 QBs in the league right this second, and which of them are "Elite"?

[KevShmev]

Who are the top 10 QBs in the league right this second, and which of them are "Elite"?

Elite:

Rodgers
Peyton (although we'll see if the end of last season really was because of the injury or Father Time)
Brady
Brees

The rest of the top 10:

Wilson
Luck
Roethlisberger
Romo
Rivers
Flacco (by just a hair over Matt Ryan)

[black_biff_stadler]

1. Baugh
2. Graham
3. Unitas
4. Luckman
5. Layne
6. Starr
7. Blanda
8. Namath
9. Grogan
10. Alcindor

[jingle.boy]

Who are the top 10 QBs in the league right this second, and which of them are "Elite"?

Elite:

Rodgers
Peyton (although we'll see if the end of last season really was because of the injury or Father Time)
Brady
Brees

The rest of the top 10:

Wilson
Luck
Roethlisberger
Romo
Rivers
Flacco (by just a hair over Matt Ryan)

Honestly not sure I'd put Brees over Wilson or Luck.  Luck is in the Elite category, imo.  And taking all things into account, I think I'd put Newton in the Top 10.  I think it's important to take into consideration consistency (Big Ben doesn't have it), what they do with what they've got (Luck shines here... Newton ain't bad either), and total package (Wilson's strong suit).

[KevShmev]

Cam is too inconsistent of a thrower for me to put him in the top 10.  He misses so many what should be easy catch and throws.  He is tough as hell, though, there is no doubt about that.  After my top 11 (since I said Flacco over Ryan by a hair), I'd put Cam in the next tier with Eli, Stafford and Alex Smith.

Even with having a "down" year by his standards last year, Brees still had a pretty great season.  He, like Peyton, gets the benefit of the doubt until he shows a significant drop-off in play.

[jingle.boy]

Cam is too inconsistent of a thrower for me to put him in the top 10.  He misses so many what should be easy catch and throws.  He is tough as hell, though, there is no doubt about that.  After my top 11 (since I said Flacco over Ryan by a hair), I'd put Cam in the next tier with Eli, Stafford and Alex Smith.

Even with having a "down" year by his standards last year, Brees still had a pretty great season.  He, like Peyton, gets the benefit of the doubt until he shows a significant drop-off in play.

Fair enough on all accounts.  I guess I was just looking at the team performance vis-a-vis Brees... woeful under-performance across the board - and where Luck was able to wring the best he could out of that offense, even with Graham, Brees couldn't.  My gut says Bradford may have a very good bounce back year in Phi.

[KevShmev]

While he had a poor running game last year, Luck had a lot of talented young pass catchers, so it's not like he's producing while playing with nothing but scrubs at WR and TE (like Wilson did last year). 

I think Bradford will do well this year IF he stays healthy, which is always a big IF with him.

Foles looked good in limited duty last night, but of course it was just the 1st quarter of the first preseason game.  And was against the Raiders.

[Cable]

Luck and Wilson need just more time. Kev's correct elite have done it pretty much year after year after year after year at a high level. They both are right there though, and at least one of the elite will be leaving the elite soon.

[KevShmev]

True, and actually, if we go strictly by DOC's question of who is elite NOW, then Romo has to be up there.  Led the league in QBR, passer rating, completion percentage and YPA last season.  And he played extremely well in both playoff games.

[King Postwhore]

I also believe Ben is close as well. 

[KevShmev]

I'm not sure I agree.  I think he is absolutely in that 2nd tier behind the elite guys.  I'd like to see some more consistency out of him first.  He had those two 6-TD performances in back-to-back games last year, but he also had 8 games with 0 or 1 TD. 

[King Postwhore]

I think he's on the high end of the second tier.  I look at Luck in the top 5 now.  Ben now has to carry his team since they don't have the D they are accustomed to in Pitt.  They didn't need him to be the gunslinger.  I'm not saying top five but he's in the 6 to 8 position right now.

[orcus116]

True, and actually, if we go strictly by DOC's question of who is elite NOW, then Romo has to be up there.  Led the league in QBR, passer rating, completion percentage and YPA last season.  And he played extremely well in both playoff games.

It's amazing what a great O-line does for a QB.

[mrrct]

1. Brady (4 rings, 6 appearances, all of them without a stud wideout)[And yes, I am from NE]
2. Rogers (most talented, but only 1 ring; injury-prone)
3. Luck (the last of the good drop-back passers)
4. Roethlisberger (the best hybrid of a drop-back guy who can also run)
5. Peyton (just for his brain alone; his arm strength is completely gone)
6. Eli (Skip Bayless called him Rain Man but he does have two rings)
7. Rivers (good leader and stat guy, has never won anything)
8. Brees (system quarterback, can't win outdoors in the cold)
9. Romo (has the numbers, the stud receiver and tight end; always coughs it up in the end)
10. Flacco (just for his arm strength alone; not sure about his brain)

Honorable Mention:

Wilson (not a good enough pocket passer to win without an elite defense)
Tanneyhill (curious to see how well he'd do on a non-laughingstock franchise)
Dalton (see Brees above, with less arm strength)
Ryan (see Brees and Dalton above)



 

[KevShmev]

mrrct, you might want to reread DOC's question, which was:

Who are the top 10 QBs in the league right this second, and which of them are "Elite"?

Also,

-It is a false narrative that Romo always coughs it up in the end.  Did you not watch last season?

-Saying Brees is a system QB who cannot win outside in the cold is unfair.  I guess we forgot about that win at Philly two years ago in the playoffs outside when it was 25 degrees at game time, right?

-Who gives a flying you-know-what what Skip Bayless says?

-Have you not watched Russell Wilson play?  The WRs he has had make the receivers Tom Brady has had look like All-Pros, yet his YPA is always great, and he doesn't turn it over.

-How does Eli having won rings in 2007 and 2011 make him the 6th best QB right now, in 2015?

-You give Ben props for being able to run, following a season in which he ran for a whopping 27 yards, but don't give Wilson any credit for that, even though he ran for 849 yards last year?

-Also, when has Ben EVER won without an elite defense?  I'll answer that for you: NEVER.  In fact, he has never won a playoff game in a season in which he didn't have a top 5 defense.

[King Postwhore]

Brees is the system

[black_biff_stadler]

Yep. Two total seasons with a defense that wasn't basically abetting the opposing offense (2007 and 2013), a front office that threw away Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, and Darren Sproles for a collective song, and he was 48 yards from his 4th straight 5000-yard season despite Graham playing most of last year with an undisclosed foot injury. Our friend mrrct seems to be letting the media do his research for him.

[KevShmev]

I really wonder if some people actually watch games anymore.