Question about Divorce

[Phoenix87x]

A close friend of mine would like to divorce her husband. Its been deteriorating over the past few years, but now it has reached the breaking point. Unfortunately, he is refusing to sign the papers. 

Does she have any options to get the divorce to go through anyway? Any advice would be appreciated.

[bout to crash]

My understanding is that she has to file for a "contested divorce"... don't know much about it but I internetted: https://family-law.freeadvice.com/family-law/divorce_law/spouse-refuses-to-sign-divorce-papers.htm

In other news, that is a manipulative shit thing to do.

[rumborak]

I don't understand why there needs to be signatures from both parties. Obviously, a divorce is the breakdown of the relationship to some degree, requiring both parties to agree on it seems to almost defeat the purpose of a divorce.

[bout to crash]

Right, two people who can no longer agree on anything shouldn't be expected to agree on that 

Legally they don't NEED to, it just changes the way the process works.

[rumborak]

The whole legal basis of marriage is really sketchy anyway. It seems, disregarding secondary things like legal guardianship or inheritance, a marriage contract is bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

[bout to crash]

Yeah. The more time passes the less I think legal marriage is for me, unless maybe there's a really good financial (or maybe citizenship) reason for it.
I don't mean to change the subject, but lately I've been really annoyed at how many people I know who barely know each other are getting engaged. I promise- you don't have to have a ring and a piece of paper to love each other. Maybe wait til you've been together more than a year or two to make that shit legal.... or just live in sin. Then if you break up you don't have to spend all that money on lawyers and whatnot. But that's just me; I realize my views on most things aren't exactly traditional 

[black_biff_stadler]

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

[Nekov]

Yeah. The more time passes the less I think legal marriage is for me, unless maybe there's a really good financial (or maybe citizenship) reason for it.

So, would you consider marrying me so I can get the US Citizenship? 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

My experience, via PA law, was that when the divorce is filed, you have to wait at least 90 days before the divorce can be granted under any circumstances.  If both parties agree to sign off, then it's done.  If both parties do not agree, then you are, unfortunately, made to stay married.  At the 2 year mark from the date of filing, if both parties still do not agree, then the party desirous for the divorce can have the court approve it, then the divorce is done.  Now this was my experience, barring any children or support or need to contest who owned what, etc.  My psycho ex filed for divorce, then when she realized that I'd moved on months later and wanted the divorce as much as she did, she decided that she would be a pain and NOT sign off on the divorce (that SHE filed for), so that I would have to legally keep her on my insurance for two more years.  At the two year mark, I was able to have my attorney push the divorce through and victory was mine.

[cramx3]

Yeah. The more time passes the less I think legal marriage is for me, unless maybe there's a really good financial (or maybe citizenship) reason for it.

This.  After being engaged and going through the process of ending that and dividing our shared things and refinancing my house to get her off it and all the rest of the BS.... I think its easier to just love someone and live like that if it gets to that point again.  No need for rings and some sort of governmental commitment.  Maybe my views will change over time, but the concept of marriage has really left a bad feeling in me and when I read things like this, it jsut furthers my negative view on marriage.... granted my parents have been married for 35 years now and without their commitment, my family would not be the way we are so I guess there is positives, I just dont see it for me anymore.

[rumborak]

Yeah. Now that I think of it, all the divorces I know of, had become the last chance for the spouse to once more fuck with the partner. Like, not showing up for court appointments, that kind of crap.

[bout to crash]

EXACTLY. It's used as another forum for manipulation and abuse.

Yeah. The more time passes the less I think legal marriage is for me, unless maybe there's a really good financial (or maybe citizenship) reason for it.

So, would you consider marrying me so I can get the US Citizenship? 

I would be open to doing that for somebody, yes ... a friend of mine did it and they just recently got divorced.

[rumborak]

There's actually a good amount of checking by the authorities regarding the validity of the marriage if the partner gets the citizenship through it. Unless the spouse is Canadian. A friend of mine (American) married a Canadian, and they had prepared all kinds of letters from friends about how long they had been together, brought pictures etc.
The immigration officer just said "yeah yeah, whatever. Let's have a look at those travel pictures!"

[Stadler]

It seems, disregarding secondary things like legal guardianship or inheritance, a marriage contract is bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

That's like saying "disregarding secondary things like air and water, I don't see why it is so hard to sustain life".  That's EXACTLY why there is such a thing as the legal concept of marriage.  There are a couple other things, like power of attorney and whatnot, but that's it.

And if you think about it, all those things are achievable without the concept of marriage, but you'd have to do them individually; they happen automatically upon marriage, so it is actually DECREASING bureaucracy.  (This comes into play in the "gay marriage" conversation as well). 

[Stadler]

My experience, via PA law, was that when the divorce is filed, you have to wait at least 90 days before the divorce can be granted under any circumstances.  If both parties agree to sign off, then it's done.  If both parties do not agree, then you are, unfortunately, made to stay married.  At the 2 year mark from the date of filing, if both parties still do not agree, then the party desirous for the divorce can have the court approve it, then the divorce is done.  Now this was my experience, barring any children or support or need to contest who owned what, etc.  My psycho ex filed for divorce, then when she realized that I'd moved on months later and wanted the divorce as much as she did, she decided that she would be a pain and NOT sign off on the divorce (that SHE filed for), so that I would have to legally keep her on my insurance for two more years.  At the two year mark, I was able to have my attorney push the divorce through and victory was mine.

All states are different, but (except for the "legally keep her on my insurance" part, which doesn't make sense to me) the concept is generally right on.  You need to have your friend, on the sly, consult an attorney in her state and ask these questions.  The attorney is obligated to keep the consultation confidential, and - sorry if this sounds sexist, it probably is but it is the way things work - being a woman, I can guarantee you there are at least five female attorneys in her zip code that will be willing to give a free consult to her. 

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

Well, that might suit you, but I know for me, having been married once, and having it end somewhat badly (SirGuitarCozmo and I could probably swap some stories), and now finding someone that has opened a lot of windows for me, marriage is more than "a ring" and in some ways, "all they've come to stand for" is synonymous with a lot that I have come to stand for.   Add to that that she has had more than her share of dreams dashed by someone who was, for lack of a more eloquent word, a total douche rocket, and marriage becomes something more than a "financial arrangement" but a reiteration of the concepts and values that have been used and abused but have stood the test of time.   Hard to articulate on a music forum in 100 words or less, but I totally get that it may not be right for everyone (and kudos to @About to Crash for articulating that in a way that isn't dismissive or condescending to others that disagree) but for some it is still an incredibly powerful and meaningful statement and commitment.

This.  After being engaged and going through the process of ending that and dividing our shared things and refinancing my house to get her off it and all the rest of the BS.... I think its easier to just love someone and live like that if it gets to that point again.  No need for rings and some sort of governmental commitment.  Maybe my views will change over time, but the concept of marriage has really left a bad feeling in me and when I read things like this, it jsut furthers my negative view on marriage.... granted my parents have been married for 35 years now and without their commitment, my family would not be the way we are so I guess there is positives, I just dont see it for me anymore.

AND

Yeah. Now that I think of it, all the divorces I know of, had become the last chance for the spouse to once more fuck with the partner. Like, not showing up for court appointments, that kind of crap.

AND

EXACTLY. It's used as another forum for manipulation and abuse.

Again, you have to do what's right for you, but none of those things are exclusive to marriage.  Those things happen (or can happen, anyway) with or without a ring or a marriage contract.   This might be a controversial statement, but in my experience (not insignificant, if I say so myself) almost all the upsides/downsides of marriage/not marriage are based on the people in a relationship, and that doesn't change.  In other words, a "bitch ex-wife" is just as likely going to be a "bitch ex-girlfriend" if you don't get married, and a "caring compassionate, non-demanding girlfriend" who is willing to forego the ring and ceremony would just as a likely be a "caring compassionate, non-demanding wife" if you did tie the knot.   People are who they are, and "marriage" doesn't change that in most cases. 

Regardless, this isn't intended to be argumentative; whatever you all want to call it, or however you all want to celebrate it, I hope you all find whoever it is that suits your world view, and whoever it is that wants to sit on the front porch with you when you're 80 and look back at the life you lived together.  At the end of the say, everything else is noise.   

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

(except for the "legally keep her on my insurance" part, which doesn't make sense to me)

My understanding was that because we were still actually technically married, I couldn't just willfully just remove her from my health insurance as a f*ck you measure.  It didn't cost me anything extra to keep her on, fortunately, so it was her being able to have free insurance without really having much that a coscientious person would call a "job", and being a pain in my ass for two years, because I moved on with someone she didn't like.

[Tick]

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

I hear what you are saying. I will be married 20 years this year. I love my wife now more than ever!

Back in 94 when we got engaged I bought her a modest ring for 1,000. She loves it and all it stands for. Thankfully I did not marry a materialistic woman. If I had she would have ditched me long ago! I had 17,000 in the bank when we got married. I used 13,000 to put a down payment on a house. A "starter" home we bought in 97 and still live in today!
She knows I love her and would die for her in a moments notice! I feel that same love back.
That's not to say in the coarse of 20 years we didn't have some moments that tried the future of our marriage. We just fought through them.

I believe some, not all marriages fail due to a serious lack of effort. Its some hard ass shit living an entire lifetime with the same person and all they're flaws. You have to come to terms with that early on or your doomed!

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

[cramx3]

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

I hear what you are saying. I will be married 20 years this year. I love my wife now more than ever!

Back in 94 when we got engaged I bought her a modest ring for 1,000. She loves it and all it stands for. Thankfully I did not marry a materialistic woman. If I had she would have ditched me long ago! I had 17,000 in the bank when we got married. I used 13,000 to put a down payment on a house. A "starter" home we bought in 97 and still live in today!
She knows I love her and would die for her in a moments notice! I feel that same love back.
That's not to say in the coarse of 20 years we didn't have some moments that tried the future of our marriage. We just fought through them.

I believe some, not all marriages fail due to a serious lack of effort. Its some hard ass shit living an entire lifetime with the same person and all they're flaws. You have to come to terms with that early on or your doomed!

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

I spent 6k on a ring and my x fiance complained about it.  She also helped pick it out.  Now the ring sits in my desk drawer and has little monetary value and no sentimental value.

[rumborak]

She was complaining about it ... because it was too cheap?

[Stadler]

(except for the "legally keep her on my insurance" part, which doesn't make sense to me)

My understanding was that because we were still actually technically married, I couldn't just willfully just remove her from my health insurance as a f*ck you measure.  It didn't cost me anything extra to keep her on, fortunately, so it was her being able to have free insurance without really having much that a coscientious person would call a "job", and being a pain in my ass for two years, because I moved on with someone she didn't like.

You've related that story, and I certainly hope that you have found some measure of happiness.  It's water under the bridge, and I didn't mean to bring up bad memories, but for next time (hoping there isn't a next time!) it is my understanding that just the act of being married (absent some specific other commitment to insure her, be it in a separation agreement or whatever) doesn't obligate you to insure her.

[Tick]

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

I hear what you are saying. I will be married 20 years this year. I love my wife now more than ever!

Back in 94 when we got engaged I bought her a modest ring for 1,000. She loves it and all it stands for. Thankfully I did not marry a materialistic woman. If I had she would have ditched me long ago! I had 17,000 in the bank when we got married. I used 13,000 to put a down payment on a house. A "starter" home we bought in 97 and still live in today!
She knows I love her and would die for her in a moments notice! I feel that same love back.
That's not to say in the coarse of 20 years we didn't have some moments that tried the future of our marriage. We just fought through them.

I believe some, not all marriages fail due to a serious lack of effort. Its some hard ass shit living an entire lifetime with the same person and all they're flaws. You have to come to terms with that early on or your doomed!

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

I spent 6k on a ring and my x fiance complained about it.  She also helped pick it out.  Now the ring sits in my desk drawer and has little monetary value and no sentimental value.

Wow, that's the kind of woman I would run away from at full speed! Odds are, no man will ever make her happy.

[Stadler]

I spent 6k on a ring and my x fiance complained about it.  She also helped pick it out.  Now the ring sits in my desk drawer and has little monetary value and no sentimental value.

Hard question that you don't have to answer here if you don't want to, but are you honestly saying that her behavior was SOLELY due to the circumstances of the engagement/marriage?  Meaning, she never once ever played that kind of passive aggressive nonsense on issues that weren't related to the ring/marriage? 


(Oh, and thank your lucky stars you even HAVE the ring; in many cases, it is considered a gift, and does not have to be returned).

[Tick]

I spent 6k on a ring and my x fiance complained about it.  She also helped pick it out.  Now the ring sits in my desk drawer and has little monetary value and no sentimental value.

Hard question that you don't have to answer here if you don't want to, but are you honestly saying that her behavior was SOLELY due to the circumstances of the engagement/marriage?  Meaning, she never once ever played that kind of passive aggressive nonsense on issues that weren't related to the ring/marriage? 


(Oh, and thank your lucky stars you even HAVE the ring; in many cases, it is considered a gift, and does not have to be returned).

Most decent woman give the ring back, but the world is rapidly changing and decent ain't what it used to be.

[Chino]

Heard that 1000%. I detest wedding rings and all they've come to stand for. I'd much rather take the money and take my hypothetical fiance on a shopping spree or (god forbid) actually save that money and apply it toward a house for us to live in. Fuck the nonsensical conventions of marriage.

I hear what you are saying. I will be married 20 years this year. I love my wife now more than ever!

Back in 94 when we got engaged I bought her a modest ring for 1,000. She loves it and all it stands for. Thankfully I did not marry a materialistic woman. If I had she would have ditched me long ago! I had 17,000 in the bank when we got married. I used 13,000 to put a down payment on a house. A "starter" home we bought in 97 and still live in today!
She knows I love her and would die for her in a moments notice! I feel that same love back.
That's not to say in the coarse of 20 years we didn't have some moments that tried the future of our marriage. We just fought through them.

I believe some, not all marriages fail due to a serious lack of effort. Its some hard ass shit living an entire lifetime with the same person and all they're flaws. You have to come to terms with that early on or your doomed!

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

I spent 6k on a ring and my x fiance complained about it.  She also helped pick it out.  Now the ring sits in my desk drawer and has little monetary value and no sentimental value.

$6k on a ring is ridiculous. I cringe when I hear stuff like that. Six grand was the down payment on my house. Why do you still have the ring? Is it worth more now than when you bought it?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

(except for the "legally keep her on my insurance" part, which doesn't make sense to me)

My understanding was that because we were still actually technically married, I couldn't just willfully just remove her from my health insurance as a f*ck you measure.  It didn't cost me anything extra to keep her on, fortunately, so it was her being able to have free insurance without really having much that a coscientious person would call a "job", and being a pain in my ass for two years, because I moved on with someone she didn't like.

You've related that story, and I certainly hope that you have found some measure of happiness.  It's water under the bridge, and I didn't mean to bring up bad memories, but for next time (hoping there isn't a next time!) it is my understanding that just the act of being married (absent some specific other commitment to insure her, be it in a separation agreement or whatever) doesn't obligate you to insure her.

No worries, yeah, I don't know what the deal was at the time (that was 8-9 years ago) I was just given the impression that that's how it goes, and it was just easier to go that route than for her to keep threatening other bullshit scenarios like spousal support and other dumb shit, so I bided my time knowing that at 2 years I would be legally rid of her once and for all.  Had I not kept her insured, she would've done nothing but make my life (more) miserable instead of sucking it up and moving on with her own f*cked up life.  Fast forward to today - distant memories that don't bother me anymore and a world that is much happier.  I could easily say that I wish I'd never met her, but then I'd also never have met my current wife, who is awesome.  We've been together since the divorce, which is longer than the ex and I were together, so we appear to be doing something right. 

[cramx3]

She did have to give the ring back, I found the laws in NJ that state an engagement ring is a conditional gift so no marriage = i get the ring back and she held onto it until the last day.  Now if I had proposed to her in NY, the ring would have legally been hers.  I got lucky on that one, but like I said, it has no real value anymore anyway.  I just wanted it back.  Only reason I still have it is because I dont want to sell it and get maybe only 10% back.  I think I may melt it down at some point and do something with the diamonds, but I have no need now to do that so it just sits in my desk.

Her dislike of the ring had nothing to do with our rocky relationship, she stated she wanted a bigger rock and even talked about me getting it upgraded at some point.  I had always known her not to be a materialistic girl and she hadnt been before and this completely surprised me and made me really upset.  She changed significantly after she got her doctors degree and started working and making money.  I think that was the turning point in our relationship and she seemed to care too much about dollars which she didnt care about previously.

[rumborak]

$6k on a ring is ridiculous. I cringe when I hear stuff like that. Six grand was the down payment on my house. Why do you still have the ring? Is it worth more now than when you bought it?

To me understanding, the exact opposite. A wedding ring is the worst investment ever; the moment they are bought they lose more than half their value.

[Chino]

I was just thinking along the lines of the price of gold. If it was bought when gold was <$1k an ounce, it would have been a good investment if you went to sell it 2 years ago.

[King Postwhore]

As in most things in life, a ring does devalue. Hell, my wife has a crack in her main diamond on her ring.  Though, to the eye, you can't see it.

[cramx3]

I was just thinking along the lines of the price of gold. If it was bought when gold was <$1k an ounce, it would have been a good investment if you went to sell it 2 years ago.

There isnt much gold in a ring (maybe a few hundred bucks) but the value is in the diamonds which have little value on the secondary market.  Kind of crazy how that works.

[gmillerdrake]

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

That's the thing. First off....this is just my opinion from observation.....a solid 70% of people getting married today shouldn't be getting married, period. They are getting married for the 'story' or 'experience' of it and IMO don't actually value marriage as it was designed and intended for two people to enter into to live and share life together nor do they know themselves well enough to understand what it is they even desire or want from life, much less considering another persons interests.

That statement is aimed at the amount of "young" people tying the knot and then what do you know, three, four years in they decide they don't "love" one another any longer for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is good enough of that day. Once any type of struggle or conflict arise....our society has made it simple and perfectly acceptable to just quit on the marriage and call it even per say. I just don't think very many people get married out of actualy 'love' today....it's either lust or the 'idea' of marriage and IMO the reason the common sentiment about marriage in this thread is so common is because we've devalued an experience and gift to the point of it's merely a "contract" that can be broken at any point if you don't like it any longer and not the union of two souls as it's original intention.

My intent is not to 'bash' anyone who'd had to go through a divorce because having watched it devastate my sister in law first hand I know how tough it is when one person in the marriage is flat out poison....but even in her situation she was essentially begged not to marry the guy. I know that there are people out there who put in there all and still had a spouse who wanted to get divorced so I don't want to sound insensitive to those folk. But I do hold to the opinion that well over half of people getting married in our society today should not be getting married. I think they get married with the notion already in their mind that if it doesn't 'work out' they can always get a divorce....divorce to them is an option if the fairy tale doesn't pan out.

I've only been married 9 years so it's not like I'm some authority on it....but I know that it does take two people to have a common vision for their family....common goals for life....and putting forth the same type of effort and love towards one another to make it work. Any struggle in my marriage can be directly linked to selfishness and lack of communication. Marriage can be the most rewarding, most incredible experience ever and at the same time be one of the most difficult things to manage....but it's also something that IMO you don't just decide you don't want to do anymore. (aside from having an acidic, venomous partner who does nothing but want to hurt you physically and emotionally)

I guess I'll take the abuse for my stance now.........

[Chino]

I've already told my girlfriend not to expect a proposal any time soon. She's cool with it. He have our house and our animals, and we are completely content.

[gmillerdrake]

I've already told my girlfriend not to expect a proposal any time soon. She's cool with it. He have our house and our animals, and we are completely content.

Do you feel or get pressured at all from friends/family? Like, "Oh, you're living together.....when's the ring coming?" I think that type of pressure does exist and may influence engagements/weddings that probably shouldn't have been planned or taken place.

[Tick]

Bottom line...Their is nothing wrong with the idea of marriage, it can work! but its real easy to give up and move on so far too many do.

That's the thing. First off....this is just my opinion from observation.....a solid 70% of people getting married today shouldn't be getting married, period. They are getting married for the 'story' or 'experience' of it and IMO don't actually value marriage as it was designed and intended for two people to enter into to live and share life together nor do they know themselves well enough to understand what it is they even desire or want from life, much less considering another persons interests.

That statement is aimed at the amount of "young" people tying the knot and then what do you know, three, four years in they decide they don't "love" one another any longer for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is good enough of that day. Once any type of struggle or conflict arise....our society has made it simple and perfectly acceptable to just quit on the marriage and call it even per say. I just don't think very many people get married out of actualy 'love' today....it's either lust or the 'idea' of marriage and IMO the reason the common sentiment about marriage in this thread is so common is because we've devalued an experience and gift to the point of it's merely a "contract" that can be broken at any point if you don't like it any longer and not the union of two souls as it's original intention.

My intent is not to 'bash' anyone who'd had to go through a divorce because having watched it devastate my sister in law first hand I know how tough it is when one person in the marriage is flat out poison....but even in her situation she was essentially begged not to marry the guy. I know that there are people out there who put in there all and still had a spouse who wanted to get divorced so I don't want to sound insensitive to those folk. But I do hold to the opinion that well over half of people getting married in our society today should not be getting married. I think they get married with the notion already in their mind that if it doesn't 'work out' they can always get a divorce....divorce to them is an option if the fairy tale doesn't pan out.

I've only been married 9 years so it's not like I'm some authority on it....but I know that it does take two people to have a common vision for their family....common goals for life....and putting forth the same type of effort and love towards one another to make it work. Any struggle in my marriage can be directly linked to selfishness and lack of communication. Marriage can be the most rewarding, most incredible experience ever and at the same time be one of the most difficult things to manage....but it's also something that IMO you don't just decide you don't want to do anymore. (aside from having an acidic, venomous partner who does nothing but want to hurt you physically and emotionally)

I guess I'll take the abuse for my stance now.........

Well, you know you won't get flack from me. The one thing people really need to understand is that even the very best of all marriages have rocky times that seriously test the marriage. How can they not? Life is not easy. In 20 years my wife and I have had a few patches I questioned whether we would survive it. We always found a way to fight for our marriage because deep down we both knew we were meant for each other. We both have different strengths and weaknesses and work hard to lift the other one up in tough times.

One thing I am very proud of is how well adjusted our daughter is for a 14 year old girl. She also loves both of us equally. That's not always the case for many kids. Personally I think that says a lot about my marriage. Minimal dysfunction in my home has produced a safe haven for my daughter to thrive. That's something I did not have growing up, and the one thing I have always wanted for my child.

[rumborak]

@gmiller, as a response to your long post:

"don't actually value marriage as it was designed and intended ". I think that's a very laden statement. You cite love as the defining factor of a marriage, but historically, love was almost irrelevant to a marriage. Throughout most of human history, marriages were arranged between families, with particularly the woman's wishes being of no concern to anyone. So, making love the prime ingredient in a marriage is a recent thing, and certainly not "as it was designed". And in fact, there's an Indian saying (where marriages are still prearranged) that says "marriage comes first, love later". Or not.

Under that aspect, I personally view this as just yet another shift of society in their social contracts. Certainly not the end of the world, and I would argue it's better to have two single people than a married couple who are bound by social pressure to stay in it, and are wasting away, along with "obligation kids".