Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[Prog Snob]

I don't think we're ever going to see a re-recording of WDADU and the Majesty Demos without MP in the band. He said it was hard enough to convince the guys to do the WDADRU show.  I believe his comment on the commentary was that they would do it if he stopped asking about the Majesty Demos.

[ErHaO]

I don't think we're ever going to see a re-recording of WDADU and the Majesty Demos without MP in the band. He said it was hard enough to convince the guys to do the WDADRU show.  I believe his comment on the commentary was that they would do it if he stopped asking about the Majesty Demos.

I agree that it is very unlikely.

But I was just listing some stuff that I think would be cool. And I am not wishing them to release an entire rerecorded record or something, but a bonustrack or some neat (instrumental) medley covering 30 years of trademark material. And that is the kind of stuff Portnoy always seemed to push (covers, remakes, Ystejam stuff, medleys, documentaries, recurring concepts between albums etc.).

[Stadler]

Well, the Majesty demo isn't really available to the masses. You really have to be searching for it. Most DT fans that don't come to sites like this may not even know what the Majesty Demo is, and it would be a good way of teaching fans about the history of the band and bring new life to the songs.

Respectfully, I don't understand this.   Notwithstanding that the "masses" aren't interested in it, either in it's original form or rerecorded, if a DT fan wants the Majesty Demo, they can have it.  It is available right now, officially, for $15.00 if I'm not mistaken (it might be out of stock, but the point is it was made available).

Even if you are right, why would a fan who is too casual to know about the Majesty Demos originally then care about them rereleased?   They'd still have to "search them out", no?   None of the "re-recordings" have ever been released by their "main label"; even WDADR was a Ytsejam release (which is where the Majesty Demos were re-released) so I don't understand the conundrum. 

[goo-goo]

Well, the Majesty demo isn't really available to the masses. You really have to be searching for it. Most DT fans that don't come to sites like this may not even know what the Majesty Demo is, and it would be a good way of teaching fans about the history of the band and bring new life to the songs.

Respectfully, I don't understand this.   Notwithstanding that the "masses" aren't interested in it, either in it's original form or rerecorded, if a DT fan wants the Majesty Demo, they can have it.  It is available right now, officially, for $15.00 if I'm not mistaken (it might be out of stock, but the point is it was made available).

Even if you are right, why would a fan who is too casual to know about the Majesty Demos originally then care about them rereleased?   They'd still have to "search them out", no?   None of the "re-recordings" have ever been released by their "main label"; even WDADR was a Ytsejam release (which is where the Majesty Demos were re-released) so I don't understand the conundrum.

Agree with Stadler.

Also, I highly doubt that they would go back and re-record MP material with Mangini on drums. It seems DT is staying away from anything MP related. I was quite surprised they played The Shattered Fortress since it's a more personal MP track. Would of loved to hear Home though instead of that one on BTFW.

[cramx3]

Well, the Majesty demo isn't really available to the masses. You really have to be searching for it. Most DT fans that don't come to sites like this may not even know what the Majesty Demo is, and it would be a good way of teaching fans about the history of the band and bring new life to the songs.

Respectfully, I don't understand this.   Notwithstanding that the "masses" aren't interested in it, either in it's original form or rerecorded, if a DT fan wants the Majesty Demo, they can have it.  It is available right now, officially, for $15.00 if I'm not mistaken (it might be out of stock, but the point is it was made available).

Even if you are right, why would a fan who is too casual to know about the Majesty Demos originally then care about them rereleased?   They'd still have to "search them out", no?   None of the "re-recordings" have ever been released by their "main label"; even WDADR was a Ytsejam release (which is where the Majesty Demos were re-released) so I don't understand the conundrum.

Agree with Stadler.

Also, I highly doubt that they would go back and re-record MP material with Mangini on drums. It seems DT is staying away from anything MP related. I was quite surprised they played The Shattered Fortress since it's a more personal MP track. Would of loved to hear Home though instead of that one on BTFW.

Then clearly they arent staying away from anything MP related.  That statement is very much false, they just aren't running the band the same way MP did such as the idea of doing all of WDADU in concert, but they aren't hiding from anything that MP contributed to the band.

[bosk1]

clearly they arent staying away from anything MP related.  That statement is very much false, they just aren't running the band the same way MP did such as the idea of doing all of WDADU in concert, but they aren't hiding from anything that MP contributed to the band.

This.  Not sure where that is even coming from.  That said, doing a re-recording of material that only two of the existing 5 bandmembers participated in and original performed on seems silly.  Not that they wouldn't dig something up for a live show, but that's different from doing a re-recording.

[hefdaddy42]

To say that the commercial appeal of DT re-recording old stuff, especially the Majesty demos (shudder), is LIMITED at best, is to be generous.

I can think of no reason under the sun for them to go into a studio and re-record anything.  They clearly don't want to do it, and only a handful of people would spend money on it.

Make new music and get out on the road and play.

[emtee]

I'm pretty confident they will offer some really special options/bundles with this one. Not sure what but they appreciate the fans as much
as we appreciate them and this 30 year anniversary is a pretty big deal. We will know soon enough.

Journey provided a really nice package with Revelation even though the re-recorded songs were unnecessary IMO. But it was a good
value for the fans with a new album, live concert DVD and 11 studio songs re-recorded.

[bosk1]

Journey provided a really nice package with Revelation even though the re-recorded songs were unnecessary IMO. But it was a good
value for the fans with a new album, live concert DVD and 11 studio songs re-recorded.

That package really angered a lot of fans, actually.  A lot of people felt that re-recording the Perry-era songs with a different singer was incredibly disrespectful and unnecessary.  For me personally, I was more put off by the re-recording of Faith In The Heartland.  There was NO need to do that song at all.

[hefdaddy42]

Never any reason for that kind of thing.

[emtee]

Yeah it was weird. I don't know what their thought process or motivation was. Didn't mean to derail the thread, I was just pointing out
that all in all you got a good value for your dollar when you bought that album and I think DT will have some offerings along that line.
Not necessarily anything re-recorded but good value for your dollar. Then again...I know Jack squat and it might be nothing special

[BlobVanDam]

Journey provided a really nice package with Revelation even though the re-recorded songs were unnecessary IMO. But it was a good
value for the fans with a new album, live concert DVD and 11 studio songs re-recorded.

That package really angered a lot of fans, actually.  A lot of people felt that re-recording the Perry-era songs with a different singer was incredibly disrespectful and unnecessary.  For me personally, I was more put off by the re-recording of Faith In The Heartland.  There was NO need to do that song at all.

I'm glad they did it, because that's what got me into the band. It's a win-win for new fans. It was a new album, and a "best of". And it makes obvious business sense for Frontiers to have their own recordings of those songs. It's not much different to releasing a live album of a new singer doing old songs, just better quality. Don't see the problem with it.
(I do prefer the original Faith in the Heartland despite the worse vocals btw, but I have no problem with them re-recording it either)

I don't see any motivation for DT to do such a thing though.

[King Postwhore]

Journey provided a really nice package with Revelation even though the re-recorded songs were unnecessary IMO. But it was a good
value for the fans with a new album, live concert DVD and 11 studio songs re-recorded.

That package really angered a lot of fans, actually.  A lot of people felt that re-recording the Perry-era songs with a different singer was incredibly disrespectful and unnecessary.  For me personally, I was more put off by the re-recording of Faith In The Heartland.  There was NO need to do that song at all.

A lot of bands re-record songs because they don't own the rights to the song so if they do record an older song they can peddle that song for commercials and such.

[goo-goo]

Def Leppard is doing the same thing (re-recording old songs) right now because of label issues.

[hefdaddy42]

I can maybe see it for legal reasons like that.

But that's not why Journey did it.

And it's no reason for DT to do it.

[bl5150]

A lot of bands re-record songs because they don't own the rights to the song so if they do record an older song they can peddle that song for commercials and such.

Yep.

As far as the Journey album goes I don't know anyone who was bothered by it. For those who were interested in how Arnel would sound singing the classics (a preview of their live show perhaps) it was a great bonus - for those who weren't all that interested (me included) it just never got played and I enjoyed the new album.   Foreigner did similar sorts of things when Kelly Hansen joined.

I have no real desire to see DT do it though.

[King Postwhore]

A lot of the bands from the 70's and 80's did that because the record companies were shysters and owned most to all of the songwriting credits.  More modern bands don't have to worry about that since record companies made themselves outdated.

[Stadler]

A lot of the bands from the 70's and 80's did that because the record companies were shysters and owned most to all of the songwriting credits.  More modern bands don't have to worry about that since record companies made themselves outdated.

Not to split hairs, but it wasn't the songwriting credits (and even then it would be the PUBLISHING, not the credit) as much as the masters and the rights to the actual performance.  There is, in some cases, issue as to the royalty rate on downloads.   On older contracts it is one rate, on newer it is another (presumably higher).   Def Leppard's instance was specifically because Universal wouldn't pay them more for downloads of material from prior to a certain date (I don't know what that date is).   

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think we're ever going to see a re-recording of WDADU and the Majesty Demos without MP in the band. He said it was hard enough to convince the guys to do the WDADRU show.  I believe his comment on the commentary was that they would do it if he stopped asking about the Majesty Demos.

Correct. Here's what he said in the interview I did with him at the end of the 2004 North American leg of the Evening With tour:

SH: Can we expect that with the other album anniversaries, that we'll be seeing similar performances of those albums?

MP: No – I mean every year we could say it's the anniversary of something. This year is the tenth anniversary of Awake, and we already celebrated the tenth anniversary of Images and Words. That's not to say that special things like this won't pop up from time to time, because anything is possible. But When Dream and Day Unite was a special anniversary, because that was something that everyone had always wanted to see performed with the current line-up. So it made sense to celebrate that.

SH: What about the Majesty demos in that case?

MP: <laughs> When I ran this idea by the band, and said "we'll do Dream and Day complete," it was delivered with the promise "Don't worry, we're not gonna do the Majesty demos in 2006!"

doing a re-recording of material that only two of the existing 5 bandmembers participated in and original performed on seems silly.  Not that they wouldn't dig something up for a live show, but that's different from doing a re-recording.

I disagree. Assuming it wouldn't simply be a re-recording without any changes (which I wouldn't want), it would allow the members who did not perform on those songs to put their stamp on them with their own style. Perfect example of that is ACoS. The song was completed in 1991 (if not sooner) but never recorded. Then when they finally were allowed to do it, they rewrote some of it and allowed Derek to put his spin on things in the keyboard department. Why shouldn't songs that have been officially released be rewritten and re-recorded by the current lineup, especially if they are obscure and/or the band dislikes the final product? I'm not saying that it should be a standalone release, but to provide it as a bonus CD in the deluxe package of the next album (so people can choose whether they want it or not) seems totally reasonable to me.

I can think of no reason under the sun for them to go into a studio and re-record anything.

As I said, it would be a selling point for a deluxe package, which I'm sure the band would be interested in, seeing as it is their means of supporting themselves financially.

Make new music and get out on the road and play.

Well, I think that's a given. Nobody's arguing that point. But that doesn't mean there isn't room to rewrite and re-record a handful of older tracks.

A lot of people felt that re-recording the Perry-era songs with a different singer was incredibly disrespectful and unnecessary.

I could be wrong because I haven't listened to that CD in years, but perhaps because they didn't really do anything new to the songs aside from have the current members play them? Had they done some new interpretations or changed things up more, would the Journey fans still have gotten that bent out of shape?

[bosk1]

Why shouldn't songs that have been officially released be rewritten and re-recorded by the current lineup, especially if they are obscure and/or the band dislikes the final product?

Because

doing a re-recording of material that only two of the existing 5 bandmembers participated in and original performed on seems silly. 

The ACOS example is different.  That was not previously released.  There is no point in re-doing material that has already been released and is out there for the public to get.

A lot of people felt that re-recording the Perry-era songs with a different singer was incredibly disrespectful and unnecessary.

I could be wrong because I haven't listened to that CD in years, but perhaps because they didn't really do anything new to the songs aside from have the current members play them? Had they done some new interpretations or changed things up more, would the Journey fans still have gotten that bent out of shape?

Hard to say.  I mean, I'm sure you would have had some people upset no matter what.  But it probably would have been less if they had done something other than simply remove Steve's vocals and replace them with Arnel's.  The problem is, aside from fan loyalty to Perry, Schon and Cain have shown themselves to be complete jerks at times, often toward former vocalists.  I think to many, this looked like a deliberate middle finger to Perry.  It wasn't like they came out and said, "Hey, we're doing this because we know we are picking up a lot of new fans, and it seemed to us like a bonus disk with a re-recorded greatest hits is a nice way to let the new fans who don't have all those old albums get free sampling of some of the songs that put us where we are."  (although even that would have rung a bit hollow since they already had at least two different hits packages available:  the Greatest Hits album and the much more comprehensive Time3)

[OpenYourEyes311]

doing a re-recording of material that only two of the existing 5 bandmembers participated in and original performed on seems silly.  Not that they wouldn't dig something up for a live show, but that's different from doing a re-recording.

I disagree. Assuming it wouldn't simply be a re-recording without any changes (which I wouldn't want), it would allow the members who did not perform on those songs to put their stamp on them with their own style. Perfect example of that is ACoS. The song was completed in 1991 (if not sooner) but never recorded. Then when they finally were allowed to do it, they rewrote some of it and allowed Derek to put his spin on things in the keyboard department. Why shouldn't songs that have been officially released be rewritten and re-recorded by the current lineup, especially if they are obscure and/or the band dislikes the final product? I'm not saying that it should be a standalone release, but to provide it as a bonus CD in the deluxe package of the next album (so people can choose whether they want it or not) seems totally reasonable to me.

I can think of no reason under the sun for them to go into a studio and re-record anything.

As I said, it would be a selling point for a deluxe package, which I'm sure the band would be interested in, seeing as it is their means of supporting themselves financially.

Make new music and get out on the road and play.

Well, I think that's a given. Nobody's arguing that point. But that doesn't mean there isn't room to rewrite and re-record a handful of older tracks.

This is my point exactly. I didn't bring up re-recording the Majesty demos as a standalone release. Put it as a bonus disc with the new album. That way, the people that don't know the songs can learn them with the band as it is now. I see nothing wrong that. I'm sure Chris Collins would not give one  if they rerecorded the demos. And as for KM and MP, they left the band, so who cares what they think?

If you don't think you'd like it, you don't need to buy the deluxe edition, and if you do end up buying it, you don't have to listen to it. I'll never understand the mentality of "I wouldn't like this, so it shouldn't exist." If I don't think I'd like something, I just stay away from it. This goes for music, video games, movies, whatever. I don't think I'm going to enjoy the new Star Wars, but it can exist. What the hell do I care? Someone else I'm sure will enjoy it.

That's really all I'm trying to say: I would enjoy a re-recorded version of the Majesty Demos, and I don't care if anyone else would.

[hefdaddy42]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

Combine that with the fact that no one associated with the band outside of MP has every really shown much interest in those songs at all leads me to think it is a strange suggestion.

[jammindude]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

Combine that with the fact that no one associated with the band outside of MP has every really shown much interest in those songs at all leads me to think it is a strange suggestion.

Really?  After the success Haken had with Restoration?  You think Dream Theater fans wouldn't like something really similar?

[bosk1]

Glad I'm not a Haken fan so I can bow out of the conversation now.

[TAC]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

You think? I think that'd be a great choice for a deluxe edition. I'd rather have that than more covers.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think there's a world of difference between the Haken demos and the Majesty demos.

Also, as has been mentioned, it doesn't seem like any of the current members have any interest at all in redoing the demos. So there's that.

[hefdaddy42]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

Combine that with the fact that no one associated with the band outside of MP has every really shown much interest in those songs at all leads me to think it is a strange suggestion.

Really?  After the success Haken had with Restoration?  You think Dream Theater fans wouldn't like something really similar?

Apples and Oranges.  Haken is a relatively young band.  The songs they reworked aren't 30 years old.  And they were already pretty good.

The Majesty Demos just aren't very good to begin with. 

[jammindude]

I think there's a world of difference between the Haken demos and the Majesty demos.

How?

[jammindude]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

Combine that with the fact that no one associated with the band outside of MP has every really shown much interest in those songs at all leads me to think it is a strange suggestion.

Really?  After the success Haken had with Restoration?  You think Dream Theater fans wouldn't like something really similar?

Apples and Oranges.  Haken is a relatively young band.  The songs they reworked aren't 30 years old.  And they were already pretty good.

The Majesty Demos just aren't very good to begin with.

Other than Haken being a younger band, I respectfully but totally disagree.   I think there are *A LOT* of DT fans who think that there are some great ideas in the Majesty Demos, but the quality of the recordings make them a little difficult to listen to.   A Vision in particular is fairly widely praised as being a pretty cool song.

Plus (as Haken did), you don't have to take every single idea.    Again....we're not talking about a straight up re-record.   Haken's idea was better.   Take the ideas and completely re-write them from the ground up with new member input.      I think Haken's demos were just like the Majesty demos.   Good ideas, but poor sound quality and a relatively "unfinished" feel to them.    Restoration really breathed new life into the old ideas and I think the Majesty demos would benefit from the same treatment.

[TAC]

I don't know, Hef. Another Won was spectacular on Score.

Also, as has been mentioned, it doesn't seem like any of the current members have any interest at all in redoing the demos. So there's that.

It ain't gonna happen, I get it, and that doesn't bother me at all. I was just saying that if they did do it for say a deluxe edition, I'd be all for it.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think there's a world of difference between the Haken demos and the Majesty demos.

How?

Well to be blunt, because the Haken demos kinda.... don't suck.

[hefdaddy42]

What I am saying is that the the audience that, like you, would really want something like a re-recording of the Majesty Demos is so small that the rest of us would be quite disappointed if THAT was the deluxe version extra.

Combine that with the fact that no one associated with the band outside of MP has every really shown much interest in those songs at all leads me to think it is a strange suggestion.

Really?  After the success Haken had with Restoration?  You think Dream Theater fans wouldn't like something really similar?

Apples and Oranges.  Haken is a relatively young band.  The songs they reworked aren't 30 years old.  And they were already pretty good.

The Majesty Demos just aren't very good to begin with.

Other than Haken being a younger band, I respectfully but totally disagree.   I think there are *A LOT* of DT fans who think that there are some great ideas in the Majesty Demos, but the quality of the recordings make them a little difficult to listen to.   A Vision in particular is fairly widely praised as being a pretty cool song.

Plus (as Haken did), you don't have to take every single idea.    Again....we're not talking about a straight up re-record.   Haken's idea was better.   Take the ideas and completely re-write them from the ground up with new member input.      I think Haken's demos were just like the Majesty demos.   Good ideas, but poor sound quality and a relatively "unfinished" feel to them.    Restoration really breathed new life into the old ideas and I think the Majesty demos would benefit from the same treatment.

I guess I think more of Haken's demos than you do.

I think it was a neat idea for a relatively young band to do.  I think it would be a little...I don't know, "pathetic" isn't the right word, but it isn't 100% wrong, either...for a band like DT.

Just my two cents.

[bosk1]

Well to be blunt, because the Haken demos kinda.... don't suck.

I haven't heard them, but I am skeptical of this statement.  ...unless of course they are written and performed by some band other than Haken.

[hefdaddy42]

Well to be blunt, because the Haken demos kinda.... don't suck.

I haven't heard them, but I am skeptical of this statement.  ...unless of course they are written and performed by some band other than Haken.

bosky, I am flabbergasted by your non-like of Haken.  They are an awesome band.

Although I could understand not liking the singer's voice.  I like it, but it's one of those voices that some people won't like.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Well to be blunt, because the Haken demos kinda.... don't suck.

I haven't heard them, but I am skeptical of this statement.  ...unless of course they are written and performed by some band other than Haken.