Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[The Presence of Frenemies]

As much as I enjoyed the ballads on ADTOE and DT13....IMO their best since, well....forever ago....it wouldn't bother me one bit if they shelved writing any ballads on this next album and gave us nothing but prog.

I think that would tire people's ears, especially if the production is subpar as has been the trend. Albums need contrast.

I agree with drake about the ballads on the last two albums. That being said, It wouldn't tire my ears one bit. An album doesn't need ballads to have contrast. Good song writing is good song writing regardless of whether or not ballads are on an album. For me (just my opinion) ballads on DT albums have always came off as fillers.

Depends on what you put in the 'ballad' category. A lot of the shorter ones (AFTR, BTS, FFH, TALW), I'd agree don't come off as particularly strong material (by DT standards), and I'd be surprised if any of the members said that they were most proud of those tracks on their given albums. But some of the longer pieces (anything from TSCO, TBP, and TITL to expansive pieces like TBOT and TMOLS), I think you'd be hard-pressed to call 'filler.' I know those songs aren't loved by all, but 'tossed-off' is not an appropriate adjective for any of them.

I'd be perfectly happy with the exclusion of the 'token ballad' like AFTR; I agree that it doesn't seem to work well (only examples I can think of that I like are Wither, Anna Lee, and Another Day). But I do think that in a few spots on the album, there do need to be more balladic textures. Like with TMOLS, they need not take up the entirety of a song, but contrast is needed somewhere. I'm a huge metal guy, but ToT is just too much in one go--it's the same principle.

[bluehaze1933]

I agree texture is important, but I think that texture could be had with say a flamenco-esque/Parisian piano dual between JP and JR without fundamentally changing the sound of the band...I don't outright hate ballads per say, but I just don't really think they are necessary for the sake of contrast or to just have one on every album. Also, it would be nice to hear some percussive African/latin-metal style jams that again could be used as a change of texture without compromising their overall sound. I think the idea of progressive should be to actually progress (regression as a story line a la SFAM notwithstanding  ). Notice how the orchestral movements have become very important in DT since the arrival of Jordan. It didn't change the band's overall sound but it added texture. It added to it and complimented it. Same too with the Arabic modalities they've added over time. That is really what I am talking about in terms of contrast.

[ariich]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

[bluehaze1933]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

Here ya go...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbTyFzqZu0

[ariich]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

Here ya go...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbTyFzqZu0

What the..?

Why does that work so well?!

[bluehaze1933]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

Here ya go...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbTyFzqZu0

What the..?

Why does that work so well?!

You will never hear that song in the same way again. 

[bluehaze1933]

Speaking of videos and being In the studio, these kids rock Dream Theater's Pull me Under . I love it that kids are playing such amazing music. It bodes well for the future of Prog Rock...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h2h4zIhwuM

[Nearmyth]

Contrast doesn't mean ballads, an album can have contrast without ballads. I think DT should still put in softer stuff, but avoid the really cheesy/uplifting/life lessony ones like AFTR, TITL, BTS... They're good, but they get tiring after a while

[?]

As much as I enjoyed the ballads on ADTOE and DT13....IMO their best since, well....forever ago....it wouldn't bother me one bit if they shelved writing any ballads on this next album and gave us nothing but prog.

I think that would tire people's ears, especially if the production is subpar as has been the trend. Albums need contrast.

This. The biggest problem of DT12 is the lack of variety and dynamics.

This thread is 5 pages already, and we're still two weeks away from the start of February. For all we know, they might not even go in until the middle or the end of the month.

The earliest announced tour date is July 11, so I'd be shocked if they didn't enter the studio at the beginning of the month. Speaking of that, I hope they don't rush the album because they only have 5 months...

[The Presence of Frenemies]

As much as I enjoyed the ballads on ADTOE and DT13....IMO their best since, well....forever ago....it wouldn't bother me one bit if they shelved writing any ballads on this next album and gave us nothing but prog.

I think that would tire people's ears, especially if the production is subpar as has been the trend. Albums need contrast.

This. The biggest problem of DT12 is the lack of variety and dynamics.

This thread is 5 pages already, and we're still two weeks away from the start of February. For all we know, they might not even go in until the middle or the end of the month.

The earliest announced tour date is July 11, so I'd be shocked if they didn't enter the studio at the beginning of the month. Speaking of that, I hope they don't rush the album because they only have 5 months...

Wonder if this preconceived notion of the album will allow them to work faster than usual. Is it easier to write when you know exactly what you want, or with a completely blank slate? Or is it negligible?

[JediKnight1969]

Considering Wither and This is the Life are two of my favourite recent DT songs,  I don't think they should be avoiding ballads.

Here ya go...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJbTyFzqZu0

What can I say? BRILLIANT.

[KevShmev]

While I get why they have to do it from a business standpoint, the fact that they are already announcing tour dates for this summer, without having any of the new album written yet, is not something I am a fan of.  What if they get in the studio and struggle to find their way?  Will they feel rushed to release whatever they come up with, because they know they have to have to finished by [insert date]? You can't exactly put creativity and inspiration on a time clock; it should come naturally.

[me7]

So far they have announced festival dates in July. This doesn't mean that the album needs to be finished by then and that the actual tour has to start. Bands often take breaks from the studio to play at festivals.

[rumborak]

Not Dream Theater though. Keep in mind that most bands just use the studio for tracking and mixing, and that can easily be interrupted. DT writes and records at the same time, so they need everything set up.
 I agree with Kev, the fact that they're booking concerts means that they expect to put out the album in the usual fixed time.
There's definitely a rinse-lather-repeat to their music at this point.

[Calvin6s]

There's definitely a rinse-lather-repeat to their music at this point.

Yes.  And there are a lot of positives to that.  It is working great for them and their support organization (I assume).  And keep in mind that they probably blow through the physical recording part of the process faster than your average band (I assume).

I have no idea if spending more time in the writing phase would help.  It might not change a thing.  But I can only go off my personal experience which is my top 10 (maybe even 25) DT songs do not include a song off an album beyond Octavarium.  The newer albums have a great release effect, then they seem to lose their staying power (with me).

[JayOctavarium]

I want demos.

[bluehaze1933]

Does anybody think they'll release a "Cleaning out the Closet 2" album? I really liked the last one I received at Dreamcon 2000 in Den Bosch, Netherlands

[Systematik88]

As much as I enjoyed the ballads on ADTOE and DT13....IMO their best since, well....forever ago....it wouldn't bother me one bit if they shelved writing any ballads on this next album and gave us nothing but prog.

I think that would tire people's ears, especially if the production is subpar as has been the trend. Albums need contrast.

This. The biggest problem of DT12 is the lack of variety and dynamics.

This thread is 5 pages already, and we're still two weeks away from the start of February. For all we know, they might not even go in until the middle or the end of the month.

The earliest announced tour date is July 11, so I'd be shocked if they didn't enter the studio at the beginning of the month. Speaking of that, I hope they don't rush the album because they only have 5 months...

Not too worried about them rushing..they put together Train of Thought in 3 weeks.

[The Letter M]

Does anybody think they'll release a "Cleaning out the Closet 2" album? I really liked the last one I received at Dreamcon 2000 in Den Bosch, Netherlands

Not likely. I'm pretty sure they've gone on the record as saying they've typically write enough JUST for an album, and don't really write any more than that usual 70-75 minutes of music.

The only B-Sides they've had since SFAM have been alternate versions (see "Through Her Eyes", "Wither"), single edits (see "The Thest That Stumped Them All", "Home", "Solitary Shell", "As I Am", "A Rite of Passage", etc. etc.), or demos (see "Wither", "The Best Of Times" MP vocal, etc.). But no actual FULL songs, except "Raw Dog", which was recorded for a different release in mind anyway.

So unless you want a "rarities" collection of stuff that is more or less easily available, I doubt we'll see another Cleaning Out The Closet-type album as there isn't really anything in their closet to clean out.

-Marc.

[bluehaze1933]

As much as I enjoyed the ballads on ADTOE and DT13....IMO their best since, well....forever ago....it wouldn't bother me one bit if they shelved writing any ballads on this next album and gave us nothing but prog.

I think that would tire people's ears, especially if the production is subpar as has been the trend. Albums need contrast.

This. The biggest problem of DT12 is the lack of variety and dynamics.

This thread is 5 pages already, and we're still two weeks away from the start of February. For all we know, they might not even go in until the middle or the end of the month.

The earliest announced tour date is July 11, so I'd be shocked if they didn't enter the studio at the beginning of the month. Speaking of that, I hope they don't rush the album because they only have 5 months...

Fleetwood Mac they are not. They needed over a year in the studio to record Tusk for god's sake. Dream Theater know how to play their instruments. ;-)

[Madman Shepherd]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

[darkshade]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

I'd also say most bands with a large enough fan base do not have the chops, musicianship, and musical diversity that DT has. Dream Theater is also one of the very few popular active bands out there where the majority of its fan base have been clamoring for the band to mix things up musically for years now, since Octavarium at least. I would say the band definitely throws in some surprises each album, most notably ADTOE with the electronics and throat singing, but I think most fans would accept an album with new sounds, approach, structure, etc...

[bluehaze1933]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

I never said they should reinvent their sound. I just think they could add an album to their catalog that is a bit more of a prog album that is heavier on musicianship and less on pop hooks and ballads. They don't need to reinvent themselves to do that. That being said, YES, Genesis, Heart and Aerosmith to name a few managed to change their sound during the early 80's to great success. I didn't care for the changes but they did change and had a second life to their careers. I would venture to say that at least Heart and YES recanted those changes when the music industry became tour heavy again.

[rumborak]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

The problem is when the band doesn't have a history of evolving their sound. For a band like Queen, if they released a dud (e.g. Hot Space), people just shrugged their shoulders because they knew the album after that was going to be different again. If a band like DT majorly switched their sound after sticking to the same sound for over a decade, and it would turn out to be a flop, it could turn out to be a big problem.

[bluehaze1933]

*shrugs*

This far into their career, I just don't expect them to make major changes to what they do.  Small things, for sure, but major changes...not so much.

I would say 80-90% of bands that make major changes this far into their career face disastrous results.

The problem is when the band doesn't have a history of evolving their sound. For a band like Queen, if they released a dud (e.g. Hot Space), people just shrugged their shoulders because they knew the album after that was going to be different again. If a band like DT majorly switched their sound after sticking to the same sound for over a decade, and it would turn out to be a flop, it could turn out to be a big problem.

Dream Theater have an intelligent, musically inclined, open-minded and above all loyal fan base that was created on bucking the musical trends and doing it their way despite the lack of radio play. They are known as a prog metal band. Why would being just a bit more proggy a) be a dud, and b) be a major problem for them if by some off chance it were, especially given their penchant to release new albums every two years or so? If fans stayed with them through the FII album, I doubt they would ever leave now if the album happened to be less commercial and more prog. They don't have to become another version of PHISH, just a more Liquid Tension version of themselves would be exciting to hear. I think fans would dig it and embrace it. 

[BlackInk]

Even though there are of course fans of every album, I feel like DT has disappointed the general fan base for the last four albums. I'm not speaking for myself here though, since I love both Systematic Chaos and A Dramatic Turn of Events. But I feel like the majority of comments of the past 6 years has been a bit negative. It seems like the fans are longing for the old DT, which will simply never return. Something I have accepted will never really return. And again, I really like both SC and ADToE, so not really speaking for myself here.

[bluehaze1933]

Even though there are of course fans of every album, I feel like DT has disappointed the general fan base for the last four albums. I'm not speaking for myself here though, since I love both Systematic Chaos and A Dramatic Turn of Events. But I feel like the majority of comments of the past 6 years has been a bit negative. It seems like the fans are longing for the old DT, which will simply never return. Something I have accepted will never really return. And again, I really like both SC and ADToE, so not really speaking for myself here.

I personally think that ADToE is a better prog metal album than the last album. My preference is for instrumentals (sections of instrumentals in this case) which ADToE had more of. As much as I wish Mike Portnoy were back in the band, I was tired of the 12 step theme on so many of their albums.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Even though there are of course fans of every album, I feel like DT has disappointed the general fan base for the last four albums. I'm not speaking for myself here though, since I love both Systematic Chaos and A Dramatic Turn of Events. But I feel like the majority of comments of the past 6 years has been a bit negative. It seems like the fans are longing for the old DT, which will simply never return. Something I have accepted will never really return. And again, I really like both SC and ADToE, so not really speaking for myself here.

I can see how one might think this, but I don't agree, personally. Their albums have been selling quite well for the past decade or so, they have been getting the same reviews they always get, and in interviews they talk always about how supportive the fans have been. I think people are pretty satisfied with them.

Regarding the popular discussion of whether DT should do something different: I think the fact of the matter is that they really love what they do, so they're less likely to change it up. Petrucci loves producing. All of them love progressive metal. Honestly, they probably like the paychecks they get as well. I don't see any large scale changes coming anytime soon and I understand it.

[BlackInk]

I personally think that ADToE is a better prog metal album than the last album. My preference is for instrumentals (sections of instrumentals in this case) which ADToE had more of. As much as I wish Mike Portnoy were back in the band, I was tired of the 12 step theme on so many of their albums.

I love all songs of the 12 step suite except The Shattered Fortress, because it in total had one original idea in 13 minutes. I agree that ADToE had very good instumental sections, something I feel like was a clear step up from BC&SL and was was lacking on DT12. So an approach similar to that would make me happy, although I would like there to be more experimentation with song structures, as I have previously stated.

[bluehaze1933]

I personally think that ADToE is a better prog metal album than the last album. My preference is for instrumentals (sections of instrumentals in this case) which ADToE had more of. As much as I wish Mike Portnoy were back in the band, I was tired of the 12 step theme on so many of their albums.

I love all songs of the 12 step suite except The Shattered Fortress, because it in total had one original idea in 13 minutes. I agree that ADToE had very good instumental sections, something I feel like was a clear step up from BC&SL and was was lacking on DT12. So an approach similar to that would make me happy, although I would like there to be more experimentation with song structures, as I have previously stated.

I liked the music for the 12 step songs, just not the theme. I agree with the rest of your post, especially about the song structure...it's become too predictable over the years.

[ariich]

The problem is when the band doesn't have a history of evolving their sound. For a band like Queen, if they released a dud (e.g. Hot Space), people just shrugged their shoulders because they knew the album after that was going to be different again. If a band like DT majorly switched their sound after sticking to the same sound for over a decade, and it would turn out to be a flop, it could turn out to be a big problem.

Completely agreed.

Bluehaze, I'm not sure what exactly it is you're suggesting. You're saying that should be "just a bit more proggy", but I don't know what that means. And more proggy than what? DT have ALWAYS had big melodic hooks in their songs, so those aren't going to go away. Their music remains full of complex instrumental sections. Ok DT12 was a little different in that regard, but that was pretty unique for them.

[bluehaze1933]

The problem is when the band doesn't have a history of evolving their sound. For a band like Queen, if they released a dud (e.g. Hot Space), people just shrugged their shoulders because they knew the album after that was going to be different again. If a band like DT majorly switched their sound after sticking to the same sound for over a decade, and it would turn out to be a flop, it could turn out to be a big problem.

Completely agreed.

Bluehaze, I'm not sure what exactly it is you're suggesting. You're saying that should be "just a bit more proggy", but I don't know what that means. And more proggy than what? DT have ALWAYS had big melodic hooks in their songs, so those aren't going to go away. Their music remains full of complex instrumental sections. Ok DT12 was a little different in that regard, but that was pretty unique for them.

More liquid Tension-esque would be a nice change of pace from the last album.. That's what I am saying/mean. What's wrong with a bit more of their instrumental prowess on an album and a bit less ballad? They can always come back with another album for that purpose. Why not indulge some of the more musically inclined fans? It isn't asking them to change their sound but rather giving some of their fans more of what we like and what I think set them apart from other bands. Frankly, it is baffling to me why DT fans would be so opposed to such an album.  Let me say it again, I am NOT asking for a major change in their sound so please don't comment about how a major change is unlikely . I get that and that has NEVER been what I've been saying. If I had to guess what kind of album it would be, I would bet we will see some longer, more involved songs. Why? I'm just speculating here but in a recent interview JP said that writing shorter songs was very difficult for him. We may very well see a DT album that is more instrumentally inclined coming our way...and it will be good...and all will be right in the world again. ;-)

[fischermasamune]

I don't believe they would change much. I'd estimate that DT13 will not deviate more from the rest of their discography than each previous albums deviated from the previous work.

And I don't want them to change too much. I like to hear their music, and I appreciate when they incorporate elements (like the ambient/orchestra break in IT) or change moderately the songwriting (like the difference between BCASL and ADTOE), but I don't want to hear an album that doesn't sould like it's theirs at all. Or maybe I do, but I'd incur in a risk similar as if I was listening to a completely new band.

If they do release such an album I don't like, I would not want to include it in my DT playlists, and may end up not even buying it.

[bluehaze1933]

If they do release such an album I don't like, I would not want to include it in my DT playlists, and may end up not even buying it.

Like the last album for me...

[JayOctavarium]

As long as there's some heaviness somewhere in the album along with other usual things I'll be happy.