Santa Claus

[gmillerdrake]

It's bad enough that he's not real but Santa is DEAD now! Tick??

He got wasted and fell out of his sleigh from 30,000 ft. Landed on the Krelmin rooftop spike.....

[Tick]

It's bad enough that he's not real but Santa is DEAD now! Tick??

He was a real person wasn't he? Along time ago?

[yorost]

Kind of, but it's a warped path from a historical priest to Santa Claus.

[rumborak]

It's bad enough that he's not real but Santa is DEAD now! Tick??

Seriously

"Yeah, kid, there was this really awesome magical dude. He had a stroke, his wife cared for him for a long time. He was never the same though, their marriage was a farce, and she was dead inside. Eventually he died, to the relief of everyone because they could finally move on with their lives. Mrs. Claus remarried, but she still visits his grave on Christmas. So, kiddo, when you open your presents, Mrs. Claus is crying at the grave, trying to remember pre-stroke Santa. Think about that. Merry Christmas."

[TempusVox]

I recall with vivid clarity that I was totally devastated and felt betrayed when my parents sat me down and told me there was no Santa Claus. I wept for like two solid days. Then again, I was a pretty naive and sheltered little dude. And I demanded to know when I was like 8, which really was not an age where I probably could have emotionally handled it like most people who were like 10 or even 12 when they finally discover through their friends.

Be that as it may, I raised my son with Santa Claus at Christmas. Childhood is a time for magic. There is plenty of time and opportunity to learn that the world isn't as magical as we believe when we're kids. Besides I think it helps develop creativity and imagination and wonderment in kids. Also, St. Nicholas was a real person, so their is some truth to the whole Santa mythos. When my son was around 11, he told us that he and his friends had figured out there wasn't a Santa. So we discussed that Santa was of course not a real dude who rode around on a magical sleigh, but represented more the spirit of giving. He dug that, and accepted it very well. And he got to experience years of magic and excitement as a little guy.

Then again, we also taught him to understand the true meaning of Christmas all along, which probably helped.

[rumborak]

Word, Tempus. The magical part of it can not be understated.

I might also add to this, at least that's how it was in my case, when/if your kid finds out himself that it's the parents giving the presents, the kid learns a valuable lesson, which is "trust your own instincts of what is correct and what isn't". I vividly remember trying to square it all together, the fact that baby Jesus somehow walked through solid walls, was in all places at the same time etc.

[Tick]

It's bad enough that he's not real but Santa is DEAD now! Tick??

Seriously

"Yeah, kid, there was this really awesome magical dude. He had a stroke, his wife cared for him for a long time. He was never the same though, their marriage was a farce, and she was dead inside. Eventually he died, to the relief of everyone because they could finally move on with their lives. Mrs. Claus remarried, but she still visits his grave on Christmas. So, kiddo, when you open your presents, Mrs. Claus is crying at the grave, trying to remember pre-stroke Santa. Think about that. Merry Christmas."

Ummm....beyond saying he lived along time ago and is celebrated today I didn't focus on the fact he is dead.

"Yes Brianna, Santa was real but he died of cancer from eating too many bags of cookies that were chock full of nasty chemicals."

Basically she was raised to see Santa Clause as a magical part of Christmas but it was make believe. You freakin guys are brutal!

[rumborak]

I just don't see the value in having the guy dead. Is this religiously motivated? Like, so he doesn't contend with Jesus?

[reneranucci]

The world’s Christmas celebration is bound up in a disturbing incongruity. On the one hand, people go to great lengths to support and sustain the legend of Santa Claus, using his mystical benevolence to leverage good behavior from their children. On the other hand, they systematically minimize the Person and work of Christ—the holiday’s rightful celebrity—to the point that the Lord is nothing more than a plastic infant, frozen for all time in the familiar nativity scene. They exchange the singular Christ for a cheap hoax.

[rumborak]

Eh, people are always bitching about Christmas. Fact is, it's the Christians who make Christmas what it is, that being the commercial splurge.
Also, realistically, without the pagan elements of Christmas trees, present giving etc, it would be quite a dull business. In fact, when you look into the history of Christmas, you'll see that Christmas wasn't even celebrated by the early american settlers. Only when it got combined with the mulled wines and trees and stuff, did it even rise to prominence. Because it gave people something to look forward to in the long winter months.

[bosk1]

In fact, when you look into the history of Christmas, you'll see that Christmas wasn't even celebrated by the early american settlers.

Or by Christians, for that matter.

[hefdaddy42]

True.

[rumborak]

Maybe I'm missing something, but do you not consider the pilgrims to be Christians?

[yorost]

I just don't see the value in having the guy dead. Is this religiously motivated? Like, so he doesn't contend with Jesus?

Part of Santa Claus is rooted in a historical figure, so it holds some truth. Not sure that was Tick's intent, but it wouldn't be a poor explanation to a kid to say Santa is a legend around someone long dead, named Saint Nicholas.

[bosk1]

Maybe I'm missing something, but do you not consider the pilgrims to be Christians?

Without getting into an unnecessarily long, convoluted discussion, let's say for the sake of argument that in the context of this discussion, we can consider them "Christians."  But that still puts us over a thousand years after the fact.  My point is that early Christians never celebrated "Christmas."  There is no evidence that that really started until, at earliest, the early 4th century (and it appears it was probably later).

But anyway, there probably isn't really a need to go off on this tangent.

[rumborak]

Ooh, I totally misread your post. I get it now, and yes, I agree. (We would probably disagree on the reason why they didn't celebrate it, but that would indeed be a P/R tangent)

Back to Santa!

[Tick]

I just don't see the value in having the guy dead. Is this religiously motivated? Like, so he doesn't contend with Jesus?

Ummm....what? Not religiously motivated. Value in having him dead? The thing is, he IS dead because he lived a long time ago and everyone dies.

We don't refer to him as dead Santa. We just chose not  to feed our kid a lie and instead have Santa a nice make believe figure. That's what he is, and that's how we felt. To each his own. I believe kids know at a very early age its horse shit anyway. They just suspend there disbelief for the sake of fantasy. I don't believe any kid is ever shocked when he finds out Santa was a fraud because deep down they knew it all along.

[bosk1]

Ooh, I totally misread your post. I get it now, and yes, I agree. (We would probably disagree on the reason why they didn't celebrate it, but that would indeed be a P/R tangent)

Back to Santa!

Speaking of which, I cannot remember whether you were on a permanent P/R break or just temporary.  You don't happen to remember, do you?

[bosk1]

We don't refer to him as dead Santa.

I totally do.  But only at Halloween.

[Tick]

We don't refer to him as dead Santa.

I totally do.  But only at Halloween.

Nice!

[rumborak]

Ooh, I totally misread your post. I get it now, and yes, I agree. (We would probably disagree on the reason why they didn't celebrate it, but that would indeed be a P/R tangent)

Back to Santa!

Speaking of which, I cannot remember whether you were on a permanent P/R break or just temporary.  You don't happen to remember, do you?

I believe perm ban. If you want to lift it again, your call. I could swing by a thread or two in P/R

[hefdaddy42]

LIFT IT
































LIFT IT

[Zydar]

[rumborak]

[Chino]

[rumborak]

Back to the topic, I just saw a discussion about Santa on a friend's FB page. She has a young daughter, so she's asking about what narrative she should pursue when it comes to Santa.

Enter the "everything is wrong about Santa" hipsters.  "Giving presents to children for being good only reinforces the materialistic blah blah blah...", "In a culturally diverse family such as yours, displaying Santa as a white guy is inappropriate...."

Why are people always so stuck up about innocuous things?

[Tick]

Today, with the internet, any 7ish year old can instantly find out through Google that Santa is just a fraud. Then that kid can call you out and tell you... "your full of shit, I googled it!"

[Calvin6s]

Today, with the internet, any 7ish year old can instantly find out through Google that Santa is just a fraud. Then that kid can call you out and tell you... "your full of shit, I googled it!"

Don't ever trust wikipedia.  It was hacked by the North Koreans.