Santa Claus

[Grizz]

I'm not religious, but I went with the "If I have kids, option 1".  First, it's fun for them.  Two, it can be fun for the parents as well.  Three, it can used to coax better behavior from your kids.  There are tons of other reasons to as well.  I think it encourages imagination and creativity from them as they try to figure out how Santa works, where as telling them there is no Santa just teaches pragmatism...which is something they should learn when they are 15, not 8.

This.
I was never told, but I was 50/50 for a LOOONG time. I buried my head in the sand from ages 6-12 before the remnants of my illusions were shattered by my stupid great aunt.

Yes, I was the guy that believed in Santa at 12. I was the smart one, too.

[Calvin6s]

People were actually crushed when they found out Santa wasn't real?

My response and those around me at the time wasn't a feeling of the world crashing around us.  It was more like pride at solving one of life's early mysteries.  And it was fun while it lasted (probably around 1st to 2nd grade).  Half the fun was sharing stories with your friends to see if their suspicions matched up with yours.

My understanding was the moods your children have when they are very young affect them the rest of their lives.  So having a sense of joy and excitement should be a good thing for child development.

What is there to be crushed about when you find out it isn't true?  That your parents care for you and were selfless enough to not take all the credit for themselves?  Doesn't seem like a lie where they screwed you for their benefit.  Did you ever actually get coal in your stocking?  If you did, then the problem wasn't Santa Claus.  It was your parents.

Crushed is when you get your first high school job paycheck and you knew their were taxes, but damn.  Then you are told "just wait until you earn real money".  Crushed is when you get your first telephone bill and say "I know what these charges are, but what are all these strange "fund this" and "prop that" charges that are just as much as the actual calling/data charges.  Crushed is when you learn that when you buy a house, you get huge property taxes to pay ... that never go away.  So it feels like you never actually, fully own the home.  Crushed is when you go to buy *insurance* and find out the options are endless, and the exclusions are endless squared.  Crushed is when you realize that sometimes hard work won't always get you through.

But finding out my parents took the time to give me some good childhood memories.  That's the opposite of crushed.

[Grizz]

I think that I might've been pissed at myself for burying my head in the sand. Or maybe it was my Caulfield personality as a major childhood symbol got shattered. Or something.

[bout to crash]

People were actually crushed when they found out Santa wasn't real?

My response and those around me at the time wasn't a feeling of the world crashing around us.  It was more like pride at solving one of life's early mysteries.  And it was fun while it lasted (probably around 1st to 2nd grade).  Half the fun was sharing stories with your friends to see if their suspicions matched up with yours.

My understanding was the moods your children have when they are very young affect them the rest of their lives.  So having a sense of joy and excitement should be a good thing for child development.

What is there to be crushed about when you find out it isn't true?  That your parents care for you and were selfless enough to not take all the credit for themselves?  Doesn't seem like a lie where they screwed you for their benefit.  Did you ever actually get coal in your stocking?  If you did, then the problem wasn't Santa Claus.  It was your parents.

Crushed is when you get your first high school job paycheck and you knew their were taxes, but damn.  Then you are told "just wait until you earn real money".  Crushed is when you get your first telephone bill and say "I know what these charges are, but what are all these strange "fund this" and "prop that" charges that are just as much as the actual calling/data charges.  Crushed is when you learn that when you buy a house, you get huge property taxes to pay ... that never go away.  So it feels like you never actually, fully own the home.  Crushed is when you go to buy *insurance* and find out the options are endless, and the exclusions are endless squared.  Crushed is when you realize that sometimes hard work won't always get you through.

But finding out my parents took the time to give me some good childhood memories.  That's the opposite of crushed.

Thanks for dismissing other peoples' feelings 

Ever think that perhaps the experience is different for everybody? And that maybe those things you listed aren't the same for everyone else, or even experiences they've had (Oh, you bought a house? Boo hoo.)? I was fucking thrilled when I got my first high school paycheck; I didn't give a fuck how much tax was taken out because I had way more money than I had a few minutes before that. So I guess that means it's ridiculous that you felt that way, right? 
It's all about perspective.

I already knew my parents loved me and we made lots of memories together- Santa was a separate issue.
When I discovered Santa wasn't real I felt like I'd been lied to and I was hurt... not to mention disappointed to know this dude didn't actually exist. It's that part of growing up that really sucks because you're forced to let go of some of the hope and positivity you used to have, because you keep finding out that lots of things about the world suck, that there are no flying reindeer and no, not anything is possible.
Kind of a bummer to me, but congratulations on having such a positive attitude about it in second grade.

[MetalJunkie]

People were actually crushed when they found out Santa wasn't real?

My response and those around me at the time wasn't a feeling of the world crashing around us.  It was more like pride at solving one of life's early mysteries.  And it was fun while it lasted (probably around 1st to 2nd grade).  Half the fun was sharing stories with your friends to see if their suspicions matched up with yours.

My understanding was the moods your children have when they are very young affect them the rest of their lives.  So having a sense of joy and excitement should be a good thing for child development.

What is there to be crushed about when you find out it isn't true?  That your parents care for you and were selfless enough to not take all the credit for themselves?  Doesn't seem like a lie where they screwed you for their benefit.  Did you ever actually get coal in your stocking?  If you did, then the problem wasn't Santa Claus.  It was your parents.

Crushed is when you get your first high school job paycheck and you knew their were taxes, but damn.  Then you are told "just wait until you earn real money".  Crushed is when you get your first telephone bill and say "I know what these charges are, but what are all these strange "fund this" and "prop that" charges that are just as much as the actual calling/data charges.  Crushed is when you learn that when you buy a house, you get huge property taxes to pay ... that never go away.  So it feels like you never actually, fully own the home.  Crushed is when you go to buy *insurance* and find out the options are endless, and the exclusions are endless squared.  Crushed is when you realize that sometimes hard work won't always get you through.

But finding out my parents took the time to give me some good childhood memories.  That's the opposite of crushed.

I think you either missed my post or missed my point. Either way, your aim's off.

[Podaar]

There have been literally countless millions of kids that come to the revelation of there is no Santa and I think the vast majority of them have come to grips with that 'truth' just fine.

Sure, that's true isn't it. In fact, I'd say that the majority of kids (including myself) that found the discovery disappointing "came to grips with it" just fine as well. We just learned a valuable lesson about the nature of trust. For me (not to beat a dead horse) I found it endlessly fascinating and liberating to know that the people I relied on for protection and mentoring were liars willing to traffic in my innocence ...and not necessarily for my own benefit either.

I think you'd be shocked at how common this really is though. I don't know if it's still there, but on Richard Dawkin's foundation website there used to be a "De-conversion Corner" where people could post their personal journeys to atheism or agnosticism. There were literally thousands of posts there and many included something about Santa Claus as their first encounter with myth-busting.

People were actually crushed when they found out Santa wasn't real?

No, I think you'd benefit from reading more carefully and perhaps with a some empathy.

I've never regretted paying my fair amount of income tax, property tax, school district excise fees, or the other thousands of ways we all contribute to the framework that provides a venue for success.

[gmillerdrake]

There have been literally countless millions of kids that come to the revelation of there is no Santa and I think the vast majority of them have come to grips with that 'truth' just fine.

Sure, that's true isn't it. In fact, I'd say that the majority of kids (including myself) that found the discovery disappointing "came to grips with it" just fine as well. We just learned a valuable lesson about the nature of trust. For me (not to beat a dead horse) I found it endlessly fascinating and liberating to know that the people I relied on for protection and mentoring were liars willing to traffic in my innocence ...and not necessarily for my own benefit either.

I think you'd be shocked at how common this really is though. I don't know if it's still there, but on Richard Dawkin's foundation website there used to be a "De-conversion Corner" where people could post their personal journeys to atheism or agnosticism. There were literally thousands of posts there and many included something about Santa Claus as their first encounter with myth-busting.

Let me clarify something...I don't think there's any escaping or denying that when one comes to realize that Santa isn't real.....and that his/her mom and dad have been lying to them all along that it doesn't do something to their psyche or affect them as a person. I can't recall a specific 'way' it affected me but I'm sure it did. But, I think that the parents response to the discovery of the child is just as important as well.

[Chino]

There have been literally countless millions of kids that come to the revelation of there is no Santa and I think the vast majority of them have come to grips with that 'truth' just fine.

Sure, that's true isn't it. In fact, I'd say that the majority of kids (including myself) that found the discovery disappointing "came to grips with it" just fine as well. We just learned a valuable lesson about the nature of trust. For me (not to beat a dead horse) I found it endlessly fascinating and liberating to know that the people I relied on for protection and mentoring were liars willing to traffic in my innocence ...and not necessarily for my own benefit either.

I think you'd be shocked at how common this really is though. I don't know if it's still there, but on Richard Dawkin's foundation website there used to be a "De-conversion Corner" where people could post their personal journeys to atheism or agnosticism. There were literally thousands of posts there and many included something about Santa Claus as their first encounter with myth-busting.

Let me clarify something...I don't think there's any escaping or denying that when one comes to realize that Santa isn't real.....and that his/her mom and dad have been lying to them all along that it doesn't do something to their psyche or affect them as a person.

I agree with this. It is a huge deal in every child's life to find this out. I'm willing to bet that almost every one of you can remember the exact moment you found out for good that Santa wasn't real. I can remember in vivid detail how I found out.

[TAC]

I certainly remember, and I guess, like Gmill said, it does something to one's psyche, but then again so doesn't everything.

But I think if a kid is old enough to figure it out, they're probably mature enough to make sense of it. I think it would be far more confusing to to tell a 5 or a 6 year old that there is no Santa Claus.

To hear people say that they'd never lie to their kids to me doesn't make sense, and is probably a bit unrealistic. There's a difference between age appropriate fibs and outright lies.

[hefdaddy42]

My wife and I were both raised with Santa, so it never occurred to us NOT to raise our kids with Santa.

The oldest is now 18 and hasn't believed in Santa for a while.  The youngest is still going along with it, but I don't think she believes any more either, or won't for much longer at any rate.

In some ways, it will make things easier.  But it marks another loss of innocence.  Just like there was a loss when I realized that Santa wasn't real, there is another when your kids find out as well.  There's no going back.

But in a way, I still believe in Santa.  For me, there is still a magic to Christmas.  And that is personified by the character of Santa.  And I still love him, the Santa from my childhood.  Santa lives in all of us.  Well, all of us that aren't curmudgeons or assholes. 

[gmillerdrake]

Well, all of us that aren't curmudgeons or assholes.

I can't believe you'd throw jingle.boy under the bus like that 























I love you Chad

[yorost]

I don't remember when I found out Santa was not real, but I do remember the disdain regarding my parents deceiving me.

[TAC]

I don't remember when I found out Santa was not real, but I do remember the disdain regarding my parents deceiving me.

Really? I posted earlier that it actually made me appreciate my parents more.

But in a way, I still believe in Santa.  For me, there is still a magic to Christmas.  And that is personified by the character of Santa.  And I still love him, the Santa from my childhood.  Santa lives in all of us. 

Amen, brother. Amen.

[gmillerdrake]

but I do remember the disdain regarding my parents deceiving me.

Man...I've read a couple of you guys/gals saying this and I honestly just don't recall being that upset about it. I think this sums it up IMO

But I think if a kid is old enough to figure it out, they're probably mature enough to make sense of it. I think it would be far more confusing to to tell a 5 or a 6 year old that there is no Santa Claus.

I mean, when a kid looks back at how much 'fun' their parents made it for them.....the good memories....just all the joy and happiness from the entire Christmas experience with Santa in general....I don't see how it's so utterly traumatizing.

Take kids in general.....certainly it is difficult waking up in the middle of the night to care for them when they are infants....changing the countless diapers....getting spit and thrown up on.....listening to hours of ear piercing crying.....but when I sit here and think back on it I cannot recall any one specific instance of that. But what I can reacall are countless instances of rocking my kids to sleep on my chest while kissing their heads.....singing to them....reading to them.....laying in bed with them and looking at them in amazement...I could go on and on. I suppose my point is that IMO the 'good' and enjoyment that can be had by fibbing to your kids about Santa and making their childhood Christmas years something fun and adventurous FAR outweighs the bad. I don't know....I guess it's up to each parent to determine how their kid is going to handle it, at this point in time I'm fairly confident that when the time comes and my boys come to the revelation of Santa being made up they will adjust just fine.

My wife and I were both raised with Santa, so it never occurred to us NOT to raise our kids with Santa....*snip*....

But in a way, I still believe in Santa.  For me, there is still a magic to Christmas.  And that is personified by the character of Santa.  And I still love him, the Santa from my childhood.  Santa lives in all of us.  Well, all of us that aren't curmudgeons or assholes. 

Agreed.

[TAC]

at this point in time I'm fairly confident that when the time comes and my boys come to the revelation of Santa being made up they will adjust just fine.

They will because of this:

But what I can reacall are countless instances of rocking my kids to sleep on my chest while kissing their heads.....singing to them....reading to them.....laying in bed with them and looking at them in amazement...I could go on and on. 

[yorost]

Everyone has different experiences, I said earlier I have no problem with people playing the Santa is real gig if they think it'll fly well. That was my experience, that's all. For me as a parent, it's just not forcing the issue, Santa just isn't a topic, even. She sees him little different than any other story I suppose, and were she to ever ask we would be honest.

[Podaar]

I've probably given the wrong impression in this thread, but then we've always known I'm not that bright.

Look, I love Christmas (or as Mrs. P calls it, the Solstice Celebration...which is technically more accurate for our family). I've spent the last 10 days "decking the halls", planning the Solstice meal, seasonal music is constantly playing in the house, wrapping presents for under the tree...hell, this morning I was addressing Christmas cards before work. I'll spend Christmas morning excitedly presenting Mrs. P with a few bobbles (we also don't go for too much spending), making the traditional Ebleskivers, and watching my grandkids tear into wrapping paper like a tornado. I love it all and much of that stems from nostalgia from my childhood.

For me the big reveal was me walking up to my Mom (I think I was six) and asking, "Is Santa real?" "Yes," she replied. I thought about it for a minute and asked, "Are you Santa?" She smiled with pride and said, "Yes, honey." That's it: no trama, no tears, but it was an important lesson for me. It's true, I did appreciate the effort of my parents and from then on I was more cognizant of greed and being sure not to ask for too much beyond my family's means. Another good lesson.

So yes, the winter celebration, whatever you choose to call it (I usually just stick with Christmas as generic term) is terrific and has never been ruined for me, my children or grandchildren. I personally just choose to leave the lies out of it. That's what this thread was about.

 

[dparrott]

I don't want to start any arguments, but Santa Claus is just one of several lies concerning Christmas.  And I am also against lying to children.

[rumborak]

At least Americans only have Santa Claus to tell their children. In Germany, Baby Jesus gives the presents, but then because of American influence there's also the concept of Santa Claus, and on top of that this stuff.

Utter confusion as you can imagine

EDIT: Really bizarre, to think that Luther, who was all about scriptural basis, encouraged having baby Jesus to be the present-giver.

[jingle.boy]

I'm surprised at the negative reactions people have to finding out the 'truth' of Santa as a child.  I guess in it's rawest sense, it is a form of deceit (and an intentional one) between a parent and child.  However, the reason for that deceit was not out of malice, or intention to hurt and betray, but in order to have fun and create a fanciful scenario of hope, joy, and magic for one given time of year.

Does it result in a loss of innocence?  Sure.  But (personally) I just don't get how that can lead to a sense of betrayal and questioning everything in life like MJ and Jackie are referencing.  I'm not saying anyone that did have that reaction is wrong for it, just saying I don't get it.

[rumborak]

Yeah, I don't get it either. I mean sure, it's a lie, but it's not as if the parents are covering up some horrendous act. It's them who bought the parents, and they just didn't take the credit for it. Just about as white a lie as I could imagine.

[hefdaddy42]

No different in substance than the Tooth Fairy.




















You guys know there is no Tooth Fairy, right?

[Podaar]

I don't think it should be that hard to understand. Imagine you're a child in the Westboro Baptist community, or your parents are disciples of Ken Ham. What are you going to think about their guidance in the face of their admission that Santa was just a harmless put on.

[Calvin6s]

You guys know there is no Tooth Fairy, right?

I respect your honesty.

[lonestar]

My parents let it run it's course as well, and as did I with my daughter, watching the childhood belief in her was truly a joy, and the slow realization that he wasn't what we told her was also a joy, for that is what watching your child grow is all about. Personally, I do and will always believe in the big guy. As it was put in the classic piece.....

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! He lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

[Dr. DTVT]

I might have been upset when the whole Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy house of cards tumbled, but that short bit of disappointment doesn't ruin tons of fond memories.  And when you do find out, you are starting to get to the age where you can start to understand the concept of money.  I couldn't have understood the financial hardship Christmas put on my parents when I was 8 or 9.  By the time I was 14, I realized that saving for the holidays was almost a year round thing for my cash strapped parents.  It's amazing in retrospect how much my sister and I got on my dad's wages.

I think we put too much on kids today.  I'm friends with kindergarten teacher and she said it is so much more work and less play now compared to when we were kids, and I don't think that's a great thing.  Kids need to be kids, not adults in training.

[Chino]

I don't think it should be that hard to understand. Imagine you're a child in the Westboro Baptist community, or your parents are disciples of Ken Ham. What are you going to think about their guidance in the face of their admission that Santa was just a harmless put on.

If their parents are disciples of Ken Ham, they have way bigger things to worry about in life than whether or not Santa was real.

[MoraWintersoul]

I was about to say that I don't care so much for Santa and that I will never be able to invest energy into maintaining that ruse with my own kids, but Chad's hilarious story is seriously making me reconsider.

[hefdaddy42]

Honestly, I was more upset to find out that pro wrestling wasn't "real" than Santa.

[lonestar]

Honestly, I was more upset to find out that pro wrestling wasn't "real" than Santa.

So much this.

[bout to crash]

 

I used to love that shit when I was a kid, but was not at all surprised to find out it wasn't real. I still wanted to sex Macho Man and be The Undertaker.

[Calvin6s]

Devastation

[KevShmev]

So wait, are some of you trying to tell me that Santa Claus isn't real? What the hell??

We've been meaning to break the news to you for a while now.

Damn.

[Tick]

I would never judge a parent for such a thing but my wife and did not raise my daughter to believe Santa was real. That isn't to say we did't watch all the Christmas specials and have fun with the whole Santa thing. We just told her Santa existed but died long ago, but its fun to enjoy him during the holiday's. Make believe is all in good fun.

[TAC]

It's bad enough that he's not real but Santa is DEAD now! Tick??