Angra - The Secret Garden [New Album]

[Lethean]

I like AC being so high.

[devieira73]

Cool ranking and summary!  I agree with a lot of you wrote, specially your love for Acqua and Lease of Life, the most beautiful song composed by Angra IMO.

[gzarruk]

and Felipe Andreoli is just phenomenal (said just like James LaBrie would say it )

I think he would actually say that about Felipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfWiRvohk4

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Temple of Shadows is seriously one of my quintaessential power metal albums. It's perfect.

[The Walrus]

Okay, I think I'm comfortable with this hot take of a ranking, from least enjoyable to most. I'll spare the deep explanation unless someone (Lethean) takes umbrage with them 

Aqua
Angels Cry
Fireworks
Holy Land
Rebirth
Aurora Consurgens
Temple of Shadows
Secret Garden
ØMNI

Aqua was a sorry misstep in the catalogue (to the point where I stopped listening to the band for a year or so after it came out - I pretty much considered them out of creative juice). Angels Cry may as well be an Andre Matos solo effort, and he's like Bon Scott or Brian Johnson, I can only listen to him so much in one sitting. Truthfully I think Angra really hit their stride once Edu joined the band. Other than Aqua, they've been on a roll since Rebirth, and Angra 3.0 with Fabio is sheer perfection. The shift in quality has been remarkably positive, to my ears.

[Lethean]

Cool ranking and summary!  I agree with a lot of you wrote, specially your love for Acqua and Lease of Life, the most beautiful song composed by Angra IMO.

Yes, that song is very beautiful.  Glad you like Aqua too. Edu also has some beautiful ethereal songs on the first Almah album.

[Lethean]

and Felipe Andreoli is just phenomenal (said just like James LaBrie would say it )

I think he would actually say that about Felipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfWiRvohk4

Nice!  I didn't know about that show. I'll have to check later to see if there's any more footage from it.

[Lethean]

Okay, I think I'm comfortable with this hot take of a ranking, from least enjoyable to most. I'll spare the deep explanation unless someone (Lethean) takes umbrage with them 

Aqua
Angels Cry
Fireworks
Holy Land
Rebirth
Aurora Consurgens
Temple of Shadows
Secret Garden
ØMNI

Aqua was a sorry misstep in the catalogue (to the point where I stopped listening to the band for a year or so after it came out - I pretty much considered them out of creative juice). Angels Cry may as well be an Andre Matos solo effort, and he's like Bon Scott or Brian Johnson, I can only listen to him so much in one sitting. Truthfully I think Angra really hit their stride once Edu joined the band. Other than Aqua, they've been on a roll since Rebirth, and Angra 3.0 with Fabio is sheer perfection. The shift in quality has been remarkably positive, to my ears.

Oh there will be umbrage taken, and lots of it. There will be so much umbrage that this thread will soon have 6 whole pages... Er, something like that.

I don't have any issues with the rankings, because mine are so fluid and I think it's a testament to how good they are that we each have different favorites.

The umbrage is taken with your description of Aqua.  I think a fresh look is in order. Some listening with headphones and an open mind.  Fair's fair - pick a (not double) Rhapsody album and I'll do the same. Not now - I just want to listen to Angra with the release of Omni and I'll be impatient, but maybe in a few weeks.

Angels Cry a Matos solo album? Au contraire! I've heard some of his solo albums and this isn't that.  Rafael had a lot to do with this album, including some of the best tracks that I described in my rankings.

You should also give Angels Cry and Holy Land another go. However, if you don't like Andre (and I feel bad for those who are missing out on his unique voice), I'm pretty sure you can find live versions of all of the songs on those two albums with Fabio.  The whole ProgPower Holy Land performance is on youtube. And they did an entire tour of it the following year as well.  Plus, Fabio was with them when they did an Angel's Cry anniversary show.

[The Walrus]

Okay, I think I'm comfortable with this hot take of a ranking, from least enjoyable to most. I'll spare the deep explanation unless someone (Lethean) takes umbrage with them 

Aqua
Angels Cry
Fireworks
Holy Land
Rebirth
Aurora Consurgens
Temple of Shadows
Secret Garden
ØMNI

Aqua was a sorry misstep in the catalogue (to the point where I stopped listening to the band for a year or so after it came out - I pretty much considered them out of creative juice). Angels Cry may as well be an Andre Matos solo effort, and he's like Bon Scott or Brian Johnson, I can only listen to him so much in one sitting. Truthfully I think Angra really hit their stride once Edu joined the band. Other than Aqua, they've been on a roll since Rebirth, and Angra 3.0 with Fabio is sheer perfection. The shift in quality has been remarkably positive, to my ears.

Oh there will be umbrage taken, and lots of it. There will be so much umbrage that this thread will soon have 6 whole pages... Er, something like that.

I don't have any issues with the rankings, because mine are so fluid and I think it's a testament to how good they are that we each have different favorites.

The umbrage is taken with your description of Aqua.  I think a fresh look is in order. Some listening with headphones and an open mind.  Fair's fair - pick a (not double) Rhapsody album and I'll do the same. Not now - I just want to listen to Angra with the release of Omni and I'll be impatient, but maybe in a few weeks.

Angel's Cry a Matos solo album? Au contraire! I've heard some of his solo albums and this isn't that.  Rafael had a lot to do with this album, including some of the best tracks that I described in my rankings.

You should also give Angel's Cry and Holy Land another go. However, if you don't like Andre (and I feel bad for those who are missing out on his unique voice), I'm pretty sure you can find live versions of all of the songs on those two albums with Fabio.  The whole ProgPower Holy Land performance is on youtube. And they did an entire tour of it the following year as well.  Plus, Fabio was with them when they did an Angel's Cry anniversary show.

Haha! I've heard one of Andre's solo albums and I should clarify, Angels Cry doesn't sound like them, but I have always been under the impression that Andre more or less steered the ship on Angels Cry, and Rafael didn't hold nearly as much influence in the band until a few albums down the road. Is that incorrect? I'm not actually privy to the songwriting credits, so I admit I could be wrong. I don't know about listening to AC or Holy Land again - I've heard them plenty of times, but I may give them one more full listen once the box set arrives (should be here in a couple weeks) just to hear them in CD quality. That could very well swing my opinion in a fair direction, but don't hold your breath. The live versions of Andre era songs with Fabio on them are fantastic, I'll admit. And I do still have a soft spot for the original Carolina IV, that is one of the best Angra songs ever.

Aqua... sigh. You got me there, fair's fair. I'll give it another go, and I'll think of a Rhapsody album as punishment that you may enjoy. You're in luck, as they have no double albums! Let me know when the time is right. Might want to go get your armor fitted and your sword sharpened. 

[Lethean]

Temple of Shadows is seriously one of my quintaessential power metal albums. It's perfect.

If you want to substitute progressive metal for power metal, I agree with you.   It's funny about Angra - people call them both in a positive way, and both in a negative way.  I've had people tell me that they don't like Angra because they don't like prog, and that they don't like Angra because they don't like power metal.  I guess the "progressive power metal" label is put to good use with them.

[gzarruk]

Temple of Shadows is seriously one of my quintaessential power metal albums. It's perfect.

If you want to substitute progressive metal for power metal, I agree with you.   It's funny about Angra - people call them both in a positive way, and both in a negative way.  I've had people tell me that they don't like Angra because they don't like prog, and that they don't like Angra because they don't like power metal.  I guess the "progressive power metal" label is put to good use with them.

I think their older albums are more power metal oriented, and the last two are more prog.

[Lethean]

Oh there will be umbrage taken, and lots of it. There will be so much umbrage that this thread will soon have 6 whole pages... Er, something like that.

I don't have any issues with the rankings, because mine are so fluid and I think it's a testament to how good they are that we each have different favorites.

The umbrage is taken with your description of Aqua.  I think a fresh look is in order. Some listening with headphones and an open mind.  Fair's fair - pick a (not double) Rhapsody album and I'll do the same. Not now - I just want to listen to Angra with the release of Omni and I'll be impatient, but maybe in a few weeks.

Angels Cry a Matos solo album? Au contraire! I've heard some of his solo albums and this isn't that.  Rafael had a lot to do with this album, including some of the best tracks that I described in my rankings.

You should also give Angels Cry and Holy Land another go. However, if you don't like Andre (and I feel bad for those who are missing out on his unique voice), I'm pretty sure you can find live versions of all of the songs on those two albums with Fabio.  The whole ProgPower Holy Land performance is on youtube. And they did an entire tour of it the following year as well.  Plus, Fabio was with them when they did an Angel's Cry anniversary show.

Haha! I've heard one of Andre's solo albums and I should clarify, Angels Cry doesn't sound like them, but I have always been under the impression that Andre more or less steered the ship on Angels Cry, and Rafael didn't hold nearly as much influence in the band until a few albums down the road. Is that incorrect? I'm not actually privy to the songwriting credits, so I admit I could be wrong. I don't know about listening to AC or Holy Land again - I've heard them plenty of times, but I may give them one more full listen once the box set arrives (should be here in a couple weeks) just to hear them in CD quality. That could very well swing my opinion in a fair direction, but don't hold your breath. The live versions of Andre era songs with Fabio on them are fantastic, I'll admit. And I do still have a soft spot for the original Carolina IV, that is one of the best Angra songs ever.

Aqua... sigh. You got me there, fair's fair. I'll give it another go, and I'll think of a Rhapsody album as punishment that you may enjoy. You're in luck, as they have no double albums! Let me know when the time is right. Might want to go get your armor fitted and your sword sharpened. 

Andre has more song writing credits on both Angels Cry and Holy Land than Rafael, but Rafael does have a good bit, and on Angel's Cry I think the best ones were cowritten by him.  I don't know much about the internal band relationships back then, but I don't get the impression that there was ever a time when Rafael wasn't very involved.  I could easily be wrong, but I don't really think so.  And he has never tried to distance himself from any of that music either - he's very proud of it. 

I certainly do encourage you to listen to the original Angels Cry and Holy Land again (and more than once), but if you don't like Andre's voice, there isn't much you can do about it.  Which is why I suggested you listen to the Fabio versions - if you think they're awesome, you think the albums are awesome.  You just don't like the vocals.   And Holy Land really is a masterpiece.

I don't have armor or a sword, but I could listen to Armor and Sword before listening to a Rhapsody album...

[Lethean]

Temple of Shadows is seriously one of my quintaessential power metal albums. It's perfect.

If you want to substitute progressive metal for power metal, I agree with you.   It's funny about Angra - people call them both in a positive way, and both in a negative way.  I've had people tell me that they don't like Angra because they don't like prog, and that they don't like Angra because they don't like power metal.  I guess the "progressive power metal" label is put to good use with them.

I think their older albums are more power metal oriented, and the last two are more prog.

I think there's a blend all throughout their history.  And no one ever agrees which albums are which either.  "Holy Land is a progressive metal masterpiece" "Holy Land's not prog at all!"  "Aurora Consurgens is too proggy for me, what happened to Angels Cry?"  "Aurora Consurgens is Angra stepping back from the progressive elements..." Etc etc etc.

[The Walrus]

In my opinion, power metal is a genre that has to flirt with at least some traditional elements of progressive music to remain interesting. It is very rare/hard to find a band that plays generic sounding power metal that is really good. Angra is a band that is very good at blending both styles well enough (intentionally or not) to cause confusion amongst people. That's pretty cool.

I'm listening to Angels Cry now. I'll hold my opinions til I'm finished.

[NoseofNicko]

In my opinion, power metal is a genre that has to flirt with at least some traditional elements of progressive music to remain interesting.

True.

[Lethean]

In my opinion, power metal is a genre that has to flirt with at least some traditional elements of progressive music to remain interesting. It is very rare/hard to find a band that plays generic sounding power metal that is really good. Angra is a band that is very good at blending both styles well enough (intentionally or not) to cause confusion amongst people. That's pretty cool.

I'm listening to Angels Cry now. I'll hold my opinions til I'm finished.

I can agree with that.  Whatever you want to call Angra, I think they've manage to change pretty constantly while still maintaining an identity. 

I'm sure you're enjoying Angels Cry right now.

[The Walrus]

I hate to disappoint, but I'm still not all that warm on it. Honestly, a big part of it is Andre. That unbearable squeak he's always doing when he goes up with his voice, or that falsetto. Don't get me wrong, he can hit the notes and he holds them well, and some of the harmonies are nice, but his tone and timbre is unbearable to me. It sounds like there is no low end at all in his voice. It's all floating in this muddy head/falsetto range, sometimes I can't tell which he's using, and it is a really uncomfortable voice to listen to.

Otherwise the songwriting isn't bad, it's just not all that interesting to me. Never Understand is definitely the best on the album, and Carry On is good, but otherwise, there's just not much I really enjoy here. Let's not get started on Streets of Tomorrow, and especially not Wuthering Heights. There's actually some element of Edguy's "Theater of Salvation" throughout the album, as far as the general sound. There are brief moments where I'm thinking, "Yeah, this rocks" and then they go away. Then they come back a minute later. It's all over the place.

Now, the kicker. There's this Brazilian band called Aquaria. Lots of people who love Angra love them, and you would too. In fact, there's a moment of the title track that is pretty much flat-out referenced in one of their songs, and lots of people accuse them of being an Angra ripoff. The singer even has all the qualities I criticize Andre for. But somehow, I enjoy them. They take all the good elements of Angels Cry and make something bigger, better, and more sophisticated, including the singer. One could say this is a Beatles or Sabbath situation where they owe Angra a massive debt, and I agree, they would not exist whatsoever without Angels Cry. But using that same analogy, I've found that this album is only a close representation of what it wants to be (let's say any given Sabbath album since I am not a Sabbath fan) - not what it actually wants to be (insert metal album I think sounds like a better version of that Sabbath album). If that makes sense.

That's just my two cents. If it helps, I do actually have a newfound appreciation for it. I was reading about it while listening and wasn't aware of the various classical homages in there. Interesting to see Alex Holzwarth on this. Never knew that. Great drummer, very kind guy.

[Lethean]

I hate to disappoint, but I'm still not all that warm on it. Honestly, a big part of it is Andre. That unbearable squeak he's always doing when he goes up with his voice, or that falsetto. Don't get me wrong, he can hit the notes and he holds them well, and some of the harmonies are nice, but his tone and timbre is unbearable to me. It sounds like there is no low end at all in his voice. It's all floating in this muddy head/falsetto range, sometimes I can't tell which he's using, and it is a really uncomfortable voice to listen to.

Otherwise the songwriting isn't bad, it's just not all that interesting to me. Never Understand is definitely the best on the album, and Carry On is good, but otherwise, there's just not much I really enjoy here. Let's not get started on Streets of Tomorrow, and especially not Wuthering Heights. There's actually some element of Edguy's "Theater of Salvation" throughout the album, as far as the general sound. There are brief moments where I'm thinking, "Yeah, this rocks" and then they go away. Then they come back a minute later. It's all over the place.

Now, the kicker. There's this Brazilian band called Aquaria. Lots of people who love Angra love them, and you would too. In fact, there's a moment of the title track that is pretty much flat-out referenced in one of their songs, and lots of people accuse them of being an Angra ripoff. The singer even has all the qualities I criticize Andre for. But somehow, I enjoy them. They take all the good elements of Angels Cry and make something bigger, better, and more sophisticated, including the singer. One could say this is a Beatles or Sabbath situation where they owe Angra a massive debt, and I agree, they would not exist whatsoever without Angels Cry. But using that same analogy, I've found that this album is only a close representation of what it wants to be (let's say any given Sabbath album since I am not a Sabbath fan) - not what it actually wants to be (insert metal album I think sounds like a better version of that Sabbath album). If that makes sense.

That's just my two cents. If it helps, I do actually have a newfound appreciation for it. I was reading about it while listening and wasn't aware of the various classical homages in there. Interesting to see Alex Holzwarth on this. Never knew that. Great drummer, very kind guy.

Um, perhaps you mean that Theater of Salvation has elements of Angels Cry rather than the other way around?

Like I said, if you don't like Andre it's just not going to work.  I really like his voice, but I understand why others don't.  I'm not even sure I really understand what head voice is, so I have no idea if he's using it or not; I just like him.  I love his singing on a track like Time or Stand Away, or Angels Cry, etc.  But, you've heard the original a bunch, you at least appreciate it more, so maybe you'll like those tracks even better when you hear Fabio sing them.

I'll check Aquaria out sometime, but if they sound that much like Angra, I'm not sure how well that will play with me.  But you never know.

[Lethean]

Oh - Streets of Tomorrow - I don't even know quite what I think about them.  I'd consider it one of the weaker tracks - what I meant by the album losing some steam towards the end, and yet, I almost never skip it, and there are certain parts that I feel reward me for sticking with it.    Wuthering Heights - it's OK.  I heard the original and wasn't into it, so I guess I'm interested in what Andre does with it but this one I do skip sometimes.

[The Walrus]

Yeah. I'm just not crazy about early Angra. Once Rebirth came out they started getting very good in my opinion. Andre era isn't my thing. I do owe Aqua that listen, but that's for another day.

Oh and re: Theater of Salvation, yeah, that's what I meant. When I wrote that I was referring to how I was perceiving the album. And I'm not that crazy about Theater of Salvation, hence why it wasn't a positive comparison.

[Lethean]

Yeah. I'm just not crazy about early Angra. Once Rebirth came out they started getting very good in my opinion. Andre era isn't my thing. I do owe Aqua that listen, but that's for another day.

Oh and re: Theater of Salvation, yeah, that's what I meant. When I wrote that I was referring to how I was perceiving the album. And I'm not that crazy about Theater of Salvation, hence why it wasn't a positive comparison.

I still maintain that Andre's era isn't your thing with Andre singing.  But you still need to listen to Holy Land from your boxed set - maybe not right away, give yourself time to come back to it later.  But it should be listened to with headphones, while you are giving it your full attention and looking at the artwork which is very cool.  Then if (or fine, when), you can't stand Andre anymore, go listen to the Fabio versions while also looking at the artwork.  It will be worth it.

I don't think I cared for Theater of Salvation either; I've listened to it, but don't remember it.

[The Walrus]

Yeah. I'm just not crazy about early Angra. Once Rebirth came out they started getting very good in my opinion. Andre era isn't my thing. I do owe Aqua that listen, but that's for another day.

Oh and re: Theater of Salvation, yeah, that's what I meant. When I wrote that I was referring to how I was perceiving the album. And I'm not that crazy about Theater of Salvation, hence why it wasn't a positive comparison.

I still maintain that Andre's era isn't your thing with Andre singing.  But you still need to listen to Holy Land from your boxed set - maybe not right away, give yourself time to come back to it later.  But it should be listened to with headphones, while you are giving it your full attention and looking at the artwork which is very cool.  Then if (or fine, when), you can't stand Andre anymore, go listen to the Fabio versions while also looking at the artwork.  It will be worth it.

I don't think I cared for Theater of Salvation either; I've listened to it, but don't remember it.

No, believe me, I've heard the early Angra albums enough to know  It's mostly Andre's voice but the songwriting in general just isn't strong to me, and doesn't become strong until around Rebirth. They're not bad albums at all - that's reserved exclusively for Aqua - but when I want to listen to Angra I never reach for Angels Cry, Holy Land, or Fireworks - except for, usually, Z.I.T.O and Carolina IV - I reach for Fireworks to Omni, excluding Aqua. If they release a live album with Fabio I'll buy it of course, but as far as the albums proper are concerned, just not a fan of the first three. I didn't like 'em when I was a teenager, and I have a little more appreciation for them now but that's about it.

It's like Timo Tolkki era Stratovarius. I love Stratovarius! I love some songs from that era! But overall the songwriting is a few notches below what I want when I look to this band for some tunes. (Also, Angra has, in my opinion, never used good synth string sounds. The ones they use on Angels Cry are weeeeeak. Secret Garden presented the band in a whole new way, production, songwriting, etc. and I love it)

[Lethean]

The song writing on Holy Land is incredible. And it can't be that bad if you're saying "The live versions of Andre era songs with Fabio on them are fantastic, I'll admit." I can see where songs like Holy Land and The Shaman might not be to everyone's taste, and I also understand the "not heavy enough" comments that some (not you) have made about the album in general. But even if they aren't to your taste, Holy Land is a pretty remarkable achievement and is pretty much unlike anything anyone in metal was doing.

[Lethean]

(Also, Angra has, in my opinion, never used good synth string sounds. The ones they use on Angels Cry are weeeeeak. Secret Garden presented the band in a whole new way, production, songwriting, etc. and I love it)

I'm not a production person, as I think I've mentioned before, but I do think the string sounds have gotten better over the years.  Aside from the string sounds, I've never really had a production related complaint about their albums. Interestingly about the songwriting though - I don't think Secret Garden was a huge shift. Or - it was a shift, but not unlike they've had between their other albums. I had so much trepidation about how Secret Garden would sound, but I was soon reassured upon listening to SG that they still had it - whatever it is that makes them as incredible as they are was still there.

[The Walrus]

The song writing on Holy Land is incredible. And it can't be that bad if you're saying "The live versions of Andre era songs with Fabio on them are fantastic, I'll admit." I can see where songs like Holy Land and The Shaman might not be to everyone's taste, and I also understand the "not heavy enough" comments that some (not you) have made about the album in general. But even if they aren't to your taste, Holy Land is a pretty remarkable achievement and is pretty much unlike anything anyone in metal was doing.

I mean they're fantastic because Fabio is singing. I fully admit I'm a Fabio fanboy and will lap up anything with him on it. That said, I'm not a fan of listening to live releases, so it still wouldn't be something I'd willingly listen to more than once. I know Holy Land was unique for its time but even for the 90s other power metal bands came just a couple years after it to do things far more impressive to my ears. I already said they're not bad! They're just not strong enough for me to go back to. I have a couple hundred other power metal albums to listen to that I simply think are better, is what I'm getting at.

[Lethean]

Well, getting back to an earlier discussion, I don't really think Holy Land is a power metal album at all.  One day you will discover your wrongness about this album (as I realized I was wrong about Fabio). It'll happen when Fabio sings some of the songs, or perhaps you'll wake up from a strange dream about a long sea voyage e tudo o que se fez na agua, and feel compelled to listen to it... 

Until then, I suppose we should get back to the topic at hand, the new album Secret Garden that will apparently be the title of this thread forever...

[The Walrus]

Well, getting back to an earlier discussion, I don't really think Holy Land is a power metal album at all.  One day you will discover your wrongness about this album (as I realized I was wrong about Fabio). It'll happen when Fabio sings some of the songs, or perhaps you'll wake up from a strange dream about a long sea voyage e tudo o que se fez na agua, and feel compelled to listen to it... 

Until then, I suppose we should get back to the topic at hand, the new album Secret Garden that will apparently be the title of this thread forever...

Oh Lethean.  I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think I'm pretty fair to both Angels Cry and Holy Land relative to a lot of other power metal, even a lot of those on my own shelves. At this point you have a better chance of convincing me WDADU is a good album (hint: it is not) 

But yeah, that Secret Garden is a pretty cool album. I wonder what they'll do next. Maybe this Fabio guy will be their new permanent singer...

[Lethean]

I think WDADU is a good album, but I just don't care for Charlie's vocals.   

I feel like I should do an Angra album thread, like I've seen with the Iron Maiden and Queensryche threads. (Or just use this thread to do it).  Except I wasn't around from the beginning, and my knowledge of strife and hardships is pretty limited, whereas Samsara knows (seemingly) everything about QR and so could provide much more background.  Maybe some day...

Yeah, I do wonder if Fabio will stick around for their next album...

[The Walrus]

Do it. *raises fist in solidarity*

[devieira73]

For those curious about the status of the current line-up, it seems that, besides Marcelo being an actual member, if Kiko returns someday, there's talk within the band that Angra could have 3 guitar players!
https://www.facebook.com/AngraOfficialPage/videos/1991578774215652/

[gzarruk]

For those curious about the status of the current line-up, it seems that, besides Marcelo being an actual member, if Kiko returns someday, there's talk within the band that Angra could have 3 guitar players!
https://www.facebook.com/AngraOfficialPage/videos/1991578774215652/

My first language is spanish, but I still can't understand too much of what he's saying, care to translate some of it?

Anyway, it would be really cool to see Angra with Kiko, Marcelo and Rafael
And, to be honest, even though it seems Kiko couldn't be happier in Megadeth right now, I don't think he (or Dirk Verbeuren) will be with them forever. Their lineups have changed so much over the years that It's safe to say Mustaine and Ellefson are the only permanent Megadeth mebers.

[BelichickFan]

This thread makes me sad. All IMO, of course :

- Matos was Angra. They were dynamic and creative with him. Generic without. I like parts of albums since Matos left but it is not the same (and not as good).

- Tolkki was Stratovarius (moreso as he was practically the only songwriter). Same description as above applies.

- Viper's Theater of Fate (with Matos) is better than any post Matos Angra. And possibly any Angra with Matos. Theater of Fate is truly a classic for me.

- I don't like Matos' solo stuff except for a track here and there. But Symfonia, the collaboration of him and Tolkki, is great and better than any Angra or Stratovarius after they each left.

- I love - LOVE - Fabio Leone in Rhapsody but hate him with Angra. In the studio and live. Not a fit at all.

"Carry On"...

[Lethean]

This thread makes me happy - to see people talking about Angra.

I love Angra with all 3 of the vocalists that they've had.  I think Angra is extremely creative - I've thought that since becoming a fan of the band and for me that's been a big key to why they're so interesting, especially having to deal with so many line up changes.  I love the Matos era but I love the other stuff as well; I have favorite albums and songs across the board.

I'm pretty sure I haven't heard Theater of Fate in full - I just heard a couple tracks but it's been a while, so I guess one of these days I should check it out. I liked some of Shaaman and some of Matos' solo stuff, but none of it resonated with me quite the same way that Matos-era Angra did.

I'm not a Rhapsody fan and was quite concerned that I wouldn't like Angra with Fabio, and I didn't think he would fit either.  I like the way it's turned out though, and am glad to have been wrong.

[BelichickFan]

I'm pretty sure I haven't heard Theater of Fate in full - I just heard a couple tracks but it's been a while, so I guess one of these days I should check it out.

Theatre of Fate is Andre's best IMO.  An underproduced, raw slab of brilliance.  They were really young and I don't think they had a clue what they were doing.  But it is amazing.  And after that Andre left for Angra.

[The Walrus]

- I don't like Matos' solo stuff except for a track here and there. But Symfonia, the collaboration of him and Tolkki, is great and better than any Angra or Stratovarius after they each left.

- I love - LOVE - Fabio Leone in Rhapsody but hate him with Angra. In the studio and live. Not a fit at all.

"Carry On"...

The bolded part had me aghast, but then Rhapsody praise made me conflicted