Metallica Thread

[Kotowboy]

So it looks like they're writing / demoing whilst seperated.

Lars bought attention to the microphones on his drums with a cheeky "..what could THAT mean? "  and Rob has hinted at recording new demoes.

They seem to be in new album mode rather than live mode which is great. Hopefully they can demo 14 or so songs whilst in Quarantine

then when they are able to get together - they can hash out the album really quick in HQ and still have it out for Early 2022 at the latest.

I still think if they can get together pretty soon at HQ - then late 2021 is still not out of the question.

And I really hope that Greg Fidelman can produce again since HTSD sounded fantastic.

[Northern Lion]

So it looks like they're writing / demoing whilst seperated.

Lars bought attention to the microphones on his drums with a cheeky "..what could THAT mean? "  and Rob has hinted at recording new demoes.

They seem to be in new album mode rather than live mode which is great. Hopefully they can demo 14 or so songs whilst in Quarantine

then when they are able to get together - they can hash out the album really quick in HQ and still have it out for Early 2022 at the latest.

I still think if they can get together pretty soon at HQ - then late 2021 is still not out of the question.

And I really hope that Greg Fidelman can produce again since HTSD sounded fantastic.

Yeah, I've seen wellsprings of this as well.  I'm really pumped for a follow up of Hardwired.

[TAC]

I really appreciate new music. My biggest gripe over Metallica has been their lack of new material.

[Kotowboy]

I really appreciate new music. My biggest gripe over Metallica has been their lack of new material.

Yeah I keep listening to Hardwired...To Self Destruct and wishing they had another album with the same style and production. And they don't really.

The production on HTSD is really stellar. I remember when they finally released the song " Hardwired " as a teaser for the album.

The thing I was most excited about was how great it sounded after two albums with terrible production.

The next one needs to sound as good.

However - it's mainly Rick Rubin's fault that Death Magnetic sounded so awful and Metallica won't work with him again. Greg Fidelman is their new Bob Rock.


---

Also over the years i've learned just how much Rob and Lars can talk about a new album without actually saying anything. It gets a bit annoying - but not as annoying as TOOL - who

deliberately make up shit or troll their own fans. E.g. " The albums finished - we just need to master it "..." The whole studio burned down and we started from scratch "...

[calamitycrush]

Man, I actually need to give Hardwired... a fair listen some time. I think I passed on it when it first came out purely on the grounds of how much I cringed at the song title 'ManUNkind'...

[Kotowboy]

Imagine if Hardwired followed the template of their 80s albums and came out in 1991 like this :

1. Hardwired
2. Atlas Rise!
3. Now That We're Dead
4. Moth Into Flame

5. Dream No More
6. Halo On Fire
7. Confusion
8. Spit Out The Bone


I think it would have been as highly regarded as " the first 4 " and would have been a good transition to the 'Black' album.

I once listened to And Justice For All in full and then The Black Album immediately after.

Not only is the obvious improvement in production glaringly obvious - but songs like Of Wolf and Man - or Holier Than Thou - wouldn't have sounded out of place on AJFA.

I think the real reason people prefer AJFA to 'Metallica' is that there's no *long* songs.

[Kotowboy]

I also wonder how LOAD would have been received if they'd kept their Black Album image...




As it seems ( not all ) a lot of the criticism was the short hair and complete change of image.

[TAC]

K-Boy, there's a lot to chew on in those posts.

Let me offer you some "in real time" observations from a huge (at the time) Metallica fan.

I got into Metallica when Kill 'Em All came out. It remains my favorite Metallica album and one of my favorite, and most important albums.
I consider Justice amazing and even saw that tour 6 times.


So...

The advanced single was Enter Sandman. For me, it was already a huge departure from what they were doing. There was an aggressiveness that was absent.

I remember buying the album in New Jersey on the day it was released and I listened to it all the way home to Massachusetts. I was shocked at how different it was. It simply lacked the aggression of the previous albums. I don't know how else to say it. I don't really think song length had all that much to do with it.

Yes, there's almost a 2 minute difference on average per song, but IMO, it's weighted by the two longest songs on AJFA (AJFA and TLITD), which I consider the two weakest. And I'm not a fan of Harvester, which is the 2nd shortest.

To me, it all came down to style.


Then there's a FIVE YEAR wait until Load. So I have to sit with TBA, my least favorite, for five years. I was quite excited when Load came out. But it was definitely continuing the path they set out on with TBA. I liked not quite half of Load, but what I like, I really like.
It's the music. Not the haircuts, at least for me.




I can see you positioning Hardwired between AJFA and TBA. But see, I take Death Magnetic all day over Hardwired. There's filler on both for sure, but they each have a different style. DM is more in line with AJFA, and Hardwired is more in line with TBA.


TBA has aged amazingly. I consider TBA a GREAT album. GREAT! I also think Hardwired is excellent as well.

[MirrorMask]

About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image. That was a big combination that turned off fans, and if they were not mixed together for Load maybe the initial reputation of that album would have not suffered that much.

About the trimmed Hardwired, I'd totally place Here Comes Revenge in place of Confusion.

[TAC]

Yeah, I suppose the image reinforces the musical change in direction, sure.

[DTA]

I guess I'm lucky in the sense that my musical coming of age was past the point when a lot of my favorite bands decided to change (1994). I can't imagine all of a sudden disliking Rush because they included synths because to me, all of that stuff was just part of their sound when I got into them. I got into Metallica after seeing their Woodstock '94 performance and The Black Album was my first album experience of theirs. Once I worked my way back, it all just sounded like Metallica...I didn't give any shits about the change of sound because I wasn't there to experience it. Once Load came out, I immediately loved it because it was just more Metallica to listen to.

[TAC]

Yeah, that's totally cool.

Rush, oh boy, that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

Sometimes when a band you really like changes direction, and it's jarring, it can throw you for a loop.  When you view a band's discography "after the fact", it's easy to see how the POV definitely changes how you feel about certain albums and eras.

[Kotowboy]

I got into Metallica properly with Reload so it was actually harder for me going back to the first four albums.

Also I didn't experience the change in image and style from Justice to Metallica to Load.

My Metallica era was Reload / Cunning Stunts / S&M era. So When I got around to listening to the first four - they were more difficult for me to appreciate because of the

brittle sound of the 80s albums. AJFA especially. The new Blackened Remaster helped somewhat but it's still not a very pleasant album on the ears.

---

However I do think Master is their #1 album by a LONG way and St Anger is their least best ( and not just in a hurr hurr trash can hurr hurr way - I genuinely love that album ).

Death Magnetic was good at the time - but it's a really hard listen on the ears. The arrangements arent the best cause they had a " 1 riff from each member " rule. And Lars is trying to play like it's still

1988 - but he doesn't have the chops anymore.

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Plus I could bang on about how No - Bob did not 'ruin' Metallica and No - Reload was NOT " all the leftovers from Load ". :-)

[MirrorMask]

I was introduced to foreign, rock / heavy music in 1994 with Bon Jovi and Guns n' Roses, and then became a metalhead in 1995 with Iron Maiden and Metallica.

I was the subject of experiments of a classmate  , which means that he created for me custom-made cassette compilations, so I don't have any "first album" of any of my early bands - it was all custom-made "greatest hits" made by a classmate.

So I was barely forming my musical tastes, with songs from all eras of Metallica and other bands, when Load came out. I totally didn't approach it with musical maturity so to speak, it's not that I hated it or anything, but Load and Reload were not the best "new album(s) once a fan" to start with.

Looking back I can appreciate Load for what it is, which is a quite fine, original and diverse album, which could have done with 2-3 songs cut to make it tighter and stronger. Reload is still kinda meh  but seriously, I could sit through the entire Load, lesser tracks included, but please don't make me listen ever again to Bad Seed or Slither.

[Kotowboy]

I can never decide between Load and Reload - the first half of Load is fantastic. And Reload starts / ends well.

Where The Wild Things Are, Carpe Diem Baby, Prince Charming** and Fixxxer are all great.

Finally - I think that Reload's weakest songs are still better than Load's weakest songs.

I'd rather listen to Bad Seed or Better Than You over Cure, Ronnie or Poor Twisted Me.



------

** Seriously - put on Prince Charming - as loud as you can - forget that its from "reload lol" and it's a fantastic hard rock song.

[MirrorMask]

Of course it's "fantastic", the chorus steals Creeping Death's one!

[Kotowboy]

Next you'll be telling me that Every song is played in E !

[TAC]

Next you'll be telling me that Every song is played in E !

If we're talking Reload, the all songs are in E, as in Enough already.

[Kotowboy]

 

Hot Take - Justice is a worse album.

[pg1067]

Let me offer you some "in real time" observations from a huge (at the time) Metallica fan.

. . .

The advanced single was Enter Sandman. For me, it was already a huge departure from what they were doing. There was an aggressiveness that was absent.

I remember buying the album in New Jersey on the day it was released and I listened to it all the way home to Massachusetts. I was shocked at how different it was. It simply lacked the aggression of the previous albums. I don't know how else to say it. I don't really think song length had all that much to do with it.

Yes, there's almost a 2 minute difference on average per song, but IMO, it's weighted by the two longest songs on AJFA (AJFA and TLITD), which I consider the two weakest. And I'm not a fan of Harvester, which is the 2nd shortest.

To me, it all came down to style.

I have a similar perspective (although I didn't get into Metallica until shortly before MOP was released).  Sandman was just...I don't know...soft.  It was Metallica's version of paint-by-numbers.  Aside from the total lack of aggression, it felt dumbed-down for the masses.  And then the second "single," Sad But True, was much the same and was plodding on top of it.  The whole album lacked the fast, intricate picking that was Hetfield's trademark, and Bob Rock completely neutered Hetfield's singing.  And there was none of the odd time stuff that was prominent on MOP and AJFA.

The Black Album also hit at a bad time for metal.  Queensryche had made a similarly, overly-produced (and, IMO, overrated) album.  Judas Priest was a year removed from one of it's best albums ever, but Rob Halford left not long afterwards.  Iron Maiden had released its worst album to date and, while the follow up was better, they seemed to have lost it.  And then Bruce Dickinson left.  Grunge was on the rise, and even the crappy glam metal of the late 80s was dying.  Pantera was on the rise, but I didn't like anything I heard and couldn't get past the stupidity of Darrell Abbott's stage name.  Only Fates Warning and, by the second half of 1992, Dream Theater saved the decade.

By the time Load came around, I had very little hope for Metallica, and I was right.  I listed to the album a few times and actually returned it to the store where I had bought it.

[Setlist Scotty]

About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image.

This. I remember when Until It Sleeps first premiered, the local radio stations literally played it every hour on the hour for at least a couple days. We were soooo excited to finally hear some new Metallica because it had been 4-5 years since the black album. At the time, there was no artwork, no revised logo, no photos of the band with haircuts and makeup. But when I heard UIS, they lost me as a fan. It was at that moment that they lost the plot. So it was the music first and foremost for me. But the change in image and everything else certainly didn't help matters.

[Volante99]

Load/Reload have definitely benefitted with time.

In the mid 90s the albums seemed like soft kowtowing to mainstream music, but viewed in the context of today’s barren, vapid landscape of top 40, Load and Reload are absolute masterpieces.

Nostalgia plays a big factor as well for the 90s kids; Load/Reload instantly transports you back to a time when contemporary rock/metal was in its final days of having some cultural relevance. Those albums are fun, and even a bit endearing.

[Zook]

I gave The Black Album a listen since it's been a long long time since I heard it in its entirety. I never had a problem with this album. I think it's a good album. That being said, listening to it with critical ears, I've come to the opinion that while it's a good album, I perfectly understand the mindset of the fans when it was released and this album while good is also kinda... Not good. For Metallica, at least. It's like Risk by Megadeth. I like most of that album. It's a huge WHAT THE FUCK, but it has some great songs. But, it's not really a Megadeth album.

TBA has a southern flare about it, and James really brings the cheese with his YEAHs. It also sounds like they got a different drummer. I stopped liking Enter Sandman years ago, and would be perfectly fine never hearing it again, but it seems like it got worse than I remember. Does it make sense to say the song isn't actually bad, but every time it comes on I change the station? Same with The Unforgiven. All the singles. But just like Escape, I think Don't Tread on Me is a great song. It's cheesy, but awesome. Same with Of Wolf and Man. There are great songs on here, but it's a very tired album, and coming after Justice, I can understand how many fans felt betrayed.

I'll give it a 6 out of 10.

[Kotowboy]

When the Justice remaster came out - I listened to the whole album in full.

Then I put on Sad But True on immediately after.

The difference was amazing. All of Justice sounds so thin and brittle - and Sad But True by comparison sounded COLOSSAL. So deep and warm.

[nattmorker]

I became a fan in 2000-2001, so I was able to appreciate their discography without the social context in which the albums were released. I discovered their music alll at once without any particular order, so I became huge fan of Enter Sandman, Fade to Black, Unforgiven, Sad but true, Master of Puppets, The thing that Should not be, Fuel, Until it Sleeps and Whiskey in the Jar and some others, all at the same time.

So, for me, I don't have any particular issue with any of their albums. Of course, now after many many years, I like some albums more than others, my favorite are

1. AJFA
2. RTL
3. MOP / TBA
4. Load

Regarding TBA, since many years ago, I cannot listen to Enter Sandman, Sad but True, Nothing else matters on my own. But the rest of the album is great IMO, specially Don't tread on me, Struggle within, God that failed, My friend of misery & Through the never.

 

[Northern Lion]

About Load, I think it was the double punch of the change in music AND image. That was a big combination that turned off fans, and if they were not mixed together for Load maybe the initial reputation of that album would have not suffered that much.

About the trimmed Hardwired, I'd totally place Here Comes Revenge in place of Confusion.

I agree.  Or with Now That We're Dead.  I just don't like the main riff of that song, very sub par for James imho.

[JayOctavarium]

Hot Take - Justice is a worse album.

Friendship Over

[Kotowboy]

Another HOT TAKE

Orion is clearly the best Instrumental whilst To Live Is To Die is by far the worst.

Orion is almost perfectly arranged and produced - whilst TLITD just sounds like 2 people jamming in a garage.

[TAC]

Another HOT TAKE

Orion is clearly the best Instrumental whilst To Live Is To Die is by far the worst.

Orion is almost perfectly arranged and produced - whilst TLITD just sounds like 2 people jamming in a garage.

How is that a hot take? A hot take would be saying the opposite.

Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?

[Kotowboy]

The kind of people that prefer And Justice For All to Master of Puppets ?

Just me of course - but - I can't see how AJFA is an improvement on Master of Puppets in any way.

I think MOP is a near flawless album. All the songs are arranged perfectly. It has warmth and melody and harmony.

Justice to me sounds thin and brittle - James grunts more than sings. Songs are long for the sake of it. Etc..

---

Also if you like how AJFA sounds then great. But saying "it doesn't need bass" is just weird. If the album came out in 1988 and it had the same production as Master of Puppets

I highly doubt people would be saying " Yeah its good - but what it really needs is zero bass ".

[TAC]

I think if I could only pick one album to listen to for the rest of my life, I'm probably leaning towards Justice, but that's in spite of TLITD, which I've been skipping since 1988.

[KevShmev]

Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?

Crazy people.

The Call of Ktulu is better than both anyway (although Orion is awfully close).

[axeman90210]

The middle section of TLITD is one of the best sections of music Metallica's released.

[OpenYourEyes311]

Who holds TLITD in higher regard than Orion?

Crazy people.

The Call of Ktulu is better than both anyway (although Orion is awfully close).

This is accurate....






1. Suicide & Redemption
2. The Call of Ktulu
3. Orion
4. TLITD




 

[DTA]

The middle section of TLITD is one of the best sections of music Metallica's released.

I think Orion is better overall, but the middle section of TLITD is probably the best musical segment they ever did.