Metallica Thread

[Stadler]

I wish everyone here could experience what it was like to be 15 years old, just starting to explore heavier music, and then getting the two record set of “The Best of Metal Blade Vol 1”

I might be getting slightly off topic, but being a kid just as all that stuff was finding an audience was a really exciting and fun time.

But we all have an album or two like that, don't we? 

[Stadler]

See, a lot of lists with the first two as Master/Ride.  Don't see it.

Well, you're not into that kind of music right? 99% of people who have been listening to them since the beginning have those 2 at the top so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I'm not sure what your factors have to do with it; once you get past Metallica and a little bit of Megadeth, I'm not into "thrash", that's true, but it's not like I dislike the elements of Metallica.  I LIKE Metallica, even the heavier stuff.   I  was there, sort of, at the beginning.  Ride came out in '84 and Master in '86, and that was probably when I was most into metal.  The guitar player in my band at the time was into them and played them a lot.   

I'm also not that influenced by what "99% of people say"; there's a degree of mythology around those two albums at this point.  To me, it seems almost like the "it's long, so it must be a good song!" mythology.  Or the "REM was so much better before they sold out" mythology.  Generally, I'm a live and let live guy, and even if I don't like something, I can see why others' do like it, but the two main Metallica records baffle me a bit.   Everything that is good about those records, Metallica has done better later in their career, to me.  James sings and plays SO much better in the '90's.   I suppose maybe you can't say that about Lars, but that's about it.

Hey it's all my opinion and so meaningless.

Perhaps, but while they had a lot of good songs in the 90s, the songs seemed a little better on Ride and Master, and there is a raw energy to their early material that is just impossible to recapture once you've lost it.  In the 80s, they sound like a young band that is full of energy and reckless abandon, and that just comes shooting out of the speakers on those early albums. And that is the problem with their newer material (21st century albums).  It sounds like a band trying to sound young again instead of growing old gracefully.  The energy and fury sounds manufactured and too well thought out rather than just a group of guys just playing in their garage.  It just doesn't seem natural; it's like a band no longer in that headspace trying to recapture it, and not only failing, but sounding contrived in trying to do so.  Some can crap on the 90s, but that was the band trying all kinds of different things and seeing what stuck to landing.  Not everything did, but at least they were thinking outside the box.

I won't argue that, especially as you move into the St. Anger phase.   I mean, I'm the hugest Het fan on the planet (seriously; he's top three favorite musicians, even if Metallica the band isn't) but some of the lyrics on the later records are a bit of a stretch. 

[Kotowboy]

It was the group of songs that were furthest along in 1996 when they had to put an album together to do the Lollapalooza tour, which I've equated to being the strongest batch of songs.  Reload has always just felt like leftovers from the sessions, aside from Fixxxer.

Yes but not written. Only recorded. All 27 songs were written and the drums for all 27 were recorded which is why the drums on both albums sound the same.

LOAD was just the FIRST 14 they had finished RECORDING not writing before they had to put something out. Reload is literally the OTHER 13.

In my opinion - there's nothing as bad as Cure or Poor Twisted Me or Ronnie on Reload.

[billboy73]

Poor Twisted Me is definitely the bottom of the barrel of the Loads.  I love the opening riff of Ronnie, but it does nothing for me from there.  Slither or Better than You fight for the worst on Reload, but they are miles better than Poor Twisted Me.  I think Where the Wild Things are might be my favorite of both albums, although Bleeding Me is pretty close.

[MirrorMask]

Load has Cure and Poor Twisted Me that really brings it down.  Also Ronnie is expandable but as the odd song it can stay.

Reload has Better than You, Slither and especially Bad Seed that are totally forgettable, and Attitude and Price Charming are just average at best.

[Kotowboy]

Just seen a joke pic on Instagram that basically parrots the " Everything Metallica did after And Justice For All is worthless ".

It may as well have been LOL NAPSTER or MONEY GRABBING METALLICA - which I never thought was true anyway.

Making pro shot videos available for free on YouTube. Making their fan club free to join. Doing club gigs for $5

or $19.81 instead of charging like £50 for a club venue just cause they're Metallica.

Also they only do 50 shows a year. And rarely put out albums. Hardly the actions of a band obsessed with money like - oh I dunno - KISS...

[Anguyen92]

I mean is there anything really wrong with trying to get fair value out of anything?  It's not charity.  Napster was them trying to protect their rights to release material at their leisure in the way they see fit.  I, too, would be pissed if anything I made was released without my approval.  Heck, last year, Metallica was trying to raise money for their foundation and releasing a full concert video every week on Youtube that's not behind a paywall.  I would think in the list of bands that are very money-grubbing, Metallica doesn't rank high in my views.  Not even close.

I mean their 40th anniversary shows in December.  I've spent $275.00 on my pass for the two shows.  Pretty steep for a concert, but it's front row in the nosebleed sections, and I never saw a headlining show from them live (did see them play 30 min. at the Chris Cornell Tribute show and they were great) and who knows when they will be back in SoCal.  Plus, I can make a weekend trip out of it being in San Francisco and do other stuff that I wasn't able to do when I was there in early 2020.

[Kotowboy]

Right - But Lars tried to stop people getting songs stolen from their studio that weren't even finished/ - WOW SO GREEDY. ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS MONEY.

[DTA]

Maybe some guitarists can clarify something that James is doing in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Olhlc19ZeQ&ab_channel=1MASTER1100

At 14 minutes, James is riding the low E string during the part after the intro of Disposable Heroes. Why is he fretting the other strings all the way up the neck rather than just holding it at the 2nd fret? He's just riding the one string so I get that he's not making any chords, but what's the benefit of holding his hand there?

[Kotowboy]

To me it looks like he's just resting his hand where it's comfy and muting the other strings without accidentally fretting.


... I just tried it myself and yeah - it just feels really comfy 'resting' my hand up there and it's easier to mute all the strings.

That's my guess.

[Zantera]

For me Load is superior to Reload because it has the strongest songs in Bleeding Me & Outlaw Torn (even if Fixxxer is up there) but also IMO the hits on Reload were never that great IMO, Fuel is like a meme at this point (even though it packs a lot of energy) and The Memory Remains is solid but much better live. In contrast I think the hits from Load are either more interesting or just better songs. Yeah if you really compared both albums, maybe there's 1 or 2 songs from Load closer to the bottom of that list than the weakest song on Reload, but for me the upper half would be mostly Load with a few Reload songs sprinkled in.

I still think Reload is great, but Load is just stronger imo.

[Kotowboy]

Songs like Fuel and Wonderwall being memes has nothing to do with the songs. It's normally because they're so popular that people have to 'prove' they actually suck.

In 1996 - NOTHING sounded like Wonderwall. I remember hearing it the first time and it sounding really haunting and original.

But it's somehow become a joke because it's...easy to play ? The simplest songs are the hardest to write..

I'd love to have written a song that was that well known.

[Zantera]

I don't dislike Wonderwall even if I think it's one of the weaker songs on that album, but Fuel is no Wonderwall.  Yeah the intro riff is fun but I think as a leading single for an album, Fuel is just fairly weak when compared to other singles they had. It would be fine if Fuel was like the deep cut rocker hidden on the album but it's basically Reload's big single.

[Kotowboy]

Fuel is a good live song. The joke about Wonderwall didn't start til MUCH later. Everyone wanted to learn it back in the Morning Glory days.

[Stadler]

I'd love to have written a song that was that well known.

This.  I laugh at that idea that bands like Metallica and Oasis (and Kiss, and even Dream Theater) are writing songs and they don't care if people like them.  I call bullshit on that.

[Kotowboy]

I'd also have no qualms about "doing a MOBY" and letting anyone and everyone use one of my tracks on their TV show / Film / Advert

As long as it wasn't for something offensive or to promote drugs / cigarettes / booze etc etc...

The dance act LEFTFIELD bought out an album called LEFTISM in 1995 - and there was a long time where almost every advert or tv show

would have a LEFTFIELD track on it. It's a business after all.

[DTA]

To me it looks like he's just resting his hand where it's comfy and muting the other strings without accidentally fretting.


... I just tried it myself and yeah - it just feels really comfy 'resting' my hand up there and it's easier to mute all the strings.

That's my guess.

I assumed it was comfort based, but wasn't positive. I guess muting the other strings that high up is more effective than further down the neck. He does the same thing in the bridge of Fight Fire With Fire where he's riding the E under Kirk's solo.

[KevShmev]

  I laugh at that idea that bands like Metallica and Oasis (and Kiss, and even Dream Theater) are writing songs and they don't care if people like them.  I call bullshit on that.

Yep. That is why I laugh when fans of certain artists who have never had hits trash artists who have had hits, as if writing a hit is easy.  It's like they fail to realize that just about every recording artist would kill to their songs loved and accepted by the masses.

[nick_z]

Speaking of Load and Reload - as I said before, I like the former much better than the latter. Up through Bleeding Me, Load is chock full of great songs. I might still prefer listening to older Metallica, but those tunes are full of energy and cool melodies/riffs. Starting with Cure there is certainly a drop in quality, but Wasting My Hate, Thorn Within and Outlaw Torn are very good, and I don't dislike Mama Said.

Reload might be overall heavier but, as I see it, not as energetic. The more aggressive songs, except for Fuel (which is a fun opener), are kind of "there" and not very inspired, and a lot of it is a bit plodding.

[TAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW3IbwEvR4I

 

[Grappler]

Wax Audio has a much better Sad But True Mashup:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyvxHL5hLfE

This one fucking grooves.   

[Kotowboy]

Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.

Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?

Is a song like Harvester of Sorrow COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to Of Wolf and Man ?

You're telling me that The Struggle Within would not have fit on Justice AT ALL ?

Even with THAT awesome thrashy riff near the end ? Ok...

The songs are just SHORTER. That's pretty much it.

Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.

[Zantera]

I don't think they've done anything great in the 00's or 10's but I enjoy the 80s and 90s stuff enough to the point where I don't mind that the rest gives me nothing.

[Tomislav95]

Yeah, I can understand old school thrash fans in 90s not liking Black album (or even AJFA) but after all this time Black album fits into their discography and is a logical continuation of stuff they did before. Latter albums are cool as well (sans St. Anger for me), it seems almost impossible there are no songs worth listening if you like old stuff.

[Kotowboy]

Honestly the only really BAD album is St Anger.

Load and Reload are great ROCK albums. Death Magnetic just needed a better production but the songs were fine

and Hardwired...is really great.

If you're still waiting for " And Justice For Even More ! " An epic 90 minute thrash opus with 10 minute songs then I've got bad news for you.


Finally we can put to rest the idea that Flemming Rasmussen was their secret weapon. Master and Justice both sound boxy and brittle.

The band EVILE recorded a thrash album with Flemming in the same studio as Master was recorded and...

well it's no masterpiece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry5nddc2Vew . Flemming was just operating the desk. He probably had ZERO say in arrangements or Lars / James sounds.

Always amusing to me when people say if they got Flemming back they'd somehow automatically make Master Of Puppets II.  they tried that with Death Magnetic and...yeah.

[Stadler]

Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.

Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?

Is a song like Harvester of Sorrow COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to Of Wolf and Man ?

You're telling me that The Struggle Within would not have fit on Justice AT ALL ?

Even with THAT awesome thrashy riff near the end ? Ok...

The songs are just SHORTER. That's pretty much it.

Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.

Well, you leaped pretty quick from "different" to "not worth listening to".   Latter day Scorpions, mid-period Kiss, Hogarth Marillion... all "different" but certainly "worth listening to".   Rush is probably an even better example.  U2.   I shake my head at these people that expect artists to just stagnate at the age of 24.    I mean, at my core I'm the same as I was at 24, but I don't limit myself to the same music, I don't limit myself to the same books, etc. as I did when I was 24.   Move on, for God's sake.

[pg1067]

Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.

What's worse:  randomly bitching about something that's 30+ years old or coming to a different forum to complain about the random bitching?

Really ? Is Metallica really THAT much different from Justice ?

Yes.

Production wise - Metallica BURIES Justice. It's a much more pleasant listening experience.

I don't know about "buries," but it's better.

Honestly the only really BAD album is St Anger.

Load and Reload are great ROCK albums. Death Magnetic just needed a better production but the songs were fine

and Hardwired...is really great.

If you're still waiting for " And Justice For Even More ! " An epic 90 minute thrash opus with 10 minute songs then I've got bad news for you.

Opinions and all....  And yeah, AJFA 2 ain't happening.  WE know it (an I moved on after Load).  You don't need to whine here about folks on Twitter.

[cramx3]

Just seen another " Metallica have not done anything worth listening to since 1988 " on Twitter.

What's worse:  randomly bitching about something that's 30+ years old or coming to a different forum to complain about the random bitching?

Agreed, if you are annoyed by something some anonymous person posted on twitter, I'm not quite sure why you come here to complain about said random person.  Who cares???

Anyway, I'm STOKED to see Metallica tomorrow night 

[Zantera]

I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.

[Kotowboy]

“I don’t know about buries”.

I just meant the production.

[cramx3]

I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.

I think Hardwired may be closer to what the direction after Load/Reload/Garage Inc could have been, it just took the band trying to figure things out to get there. 

[pg1067]

“I don’t know about buries”.

I just meant the production.

I did too.  The production on TBA > AJFA, but AJFA is still, for me, a FAR better album.

[Kotowboy]

I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.

I think Hardwired may be closer to what the direction after Load/Reload/Garage Inc could have been, it just took the band trying to figure things out to get there.

I would have enjoyed Three-Load.

Minus Human. I disappear. No Leaf Clover.

An album like that could have been the in between that

Could have  come out between Reload and St. Anger.

[DoctorAction]

They don't do much for me anymore but they're an amazing covers band. I could go for another Garage album.

[twosuitsluke]

Garage Inc is such an incredible album and along with the original S&M is the peak of their 90s output, after The Black Album. Forget Load and Reload (which I don't have much of a problem with ti be fair), it's Garage Inc and S&M that I return to.

I think there was a point in my Metallica fandom when I was that guy "I can't believe where they went with their sound" but I think one of my main issues with their last 2 albums is the more 'back to the old style' approach. Would have loved to see where the band had gone after Load/Reload/Garage Inc if they had stuck to that path, but instead we got a failed nu metal experiment with St. Anger and back to the old sound with Death Magnetic and Hardwired. I get why people like the last 2 albums but for me I'd rather just listen to the earlier albums if that's the style I want.

I feel the same. Death Magnetic has it's moments but Hardwired does nothing for me. At least St. Anger took some risks, which I like to see.

I've said it before but a solo Hetfield country album would excite me more than anything Metallica could put out at this point