Metallica Thread

[DTA]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

[MirrorMask]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

Master, Ride and Justice?

 

[KevShmev]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

Blame meathead metal fans, some of whom were actually ticked off when Load came out and saw the band's new haircuts. 

Load and ReLoad are good albums overall.  Are they Ride, Master or The Black Album?  Nope, but that is okay.  That is an impressive 'best three albums' by any measure, and expecting a band to continue making albums at that high of a level is simply not realistic. 

And before anyone asks, no, I do not consider ...And Justice for All one of their top three albums.  It sounds like ass, the majority of the songs just go on too long (the songs are not progressive, it's just them jamming away endlessly for too long in most cases), and the overall songwriting was a major stepdown from its predecessor.

[TAC]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

Tell me about it!

[WilliamMunny]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

Tell me about it!

Agreed!

I tend to gravitate towards bands and artists that have distinct eras...

Take Bowie for instance...the man was a musical chameleon, and for as much as I love Ziggy or Aladdin Sane, I think Low and Black Star are his two masterpieces.

Queen is another good example...talk about a musical arc!

To me, Metallica has much more in common with bands like that than say, Slayer. (btw, I LOVE Slayer, but they are a totally different beast than Metallica).

I guess I'm happy that I can enjoy MOP and ReLoad equally, as they give me different shades of the same songwriters. Had Metallica continued on the trajectory they'd started on, I suspect there may have been diminished returns.

[425]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

I'm absolutely with you here. The only drawback to this era for me is that they used every song they had instead of concentrating on a smaller number of the best songs. My 78-minute best-of the Load era playlist would very easily be my favorite Metallica album. Even if you just took Load and removed the four weakest songs, which for me are Cure, Poor Twisted Me, Wasting My Hate and Ronnie, the remaining album would be a top three Metallica album.

And I should say that while these two being very long albums with a mix of material I love and weaker songs that I don't really enjoy keeps me from ranking either one of them as a top three Metallica album, I kind of think it's nice that they did put out so many songs, rather than running the risk of leaving some good stuff in the vault. One thing I notice in conversations about Load and Reload is that there are a few songs pretty much everyone agrees are among the best, like The Outlaw Torn and Fuel, but there's a lot of disagreement about the other songs. Just last page, I said I feel nothing for Wasting My Hate, but DoctorAction said he loves it. Meanwhile, he doesn't care for Thorn Within, but I think it's really good. There's something nice about the fact that all those songs are out there so that everyone can pick and choose their favorites, even if it means that the albums in running order are inconsistent and therefore weaker.

Load and ReLoad are good albums overall.  Are they Ride, Master or The Black Album?  Nope, but that is okay.  That is an impressive 'best three albums' by any measure, and expecting a band to continue making albums at that high of a level is simply not realistic. 

And before anyone asks, no, I do not consider ...And Justice for All one of their top three albums.  It sounds like ass, the majority of the songs just go on too long (the songs are not progressive, it's just them jamming away endlessly for too long in most cases), and the overall songwriting was a major stepdown from its predecessor.

This is me but for Master of Puppets. (In other words, I put Ride, Justice and Black as my top three, and not Puppets.) To me, Puppets is actually the worst sounding 80s album in terms of production, and the songs are too riffy and not melodic enough. Disposable Heroes feels like eight minutes of chugging, while Frayed Ends of Sanity sings.

[cfmoran13]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

I feel a lot of it may have to do with people's "jumping on" points.  Keep in mind there were original fans who thought the band sold out when they released "Fade To Black".  Imagine what those fans thought when they first heard "Hero Of The Day" or "Mama Said".  Some fans like it when their favorite bands "stretch themselves" musically.  Others like them to stay in the box where they started.  How would OG Slayer fans react if Slayer put out an album like Reload? 

For younger fans who may have either discovered the band when Load and Reload came out or even later, those two albums were probably more in line with what they had already been listening to.  I'm not saying that all older fans hate Load and Reload.  But, it's all relative.  Personally, I started listening to Metallica in high school, when Justice came out.  So, my tastes were still evolving.  There are certainly songs on both L and ReL that I really like ("The Outlaw Torn", "Bleeding Me", "Mama Said").  But, there are also songs I can't listen to at all.

[MirrorMask]

You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.

Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.

Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said 

[Dream Team]

I feel like I’m in an alternate dimension when people consider these albums bad in any way. So many catchy riffs, great vocal melodies, introspective lyrics, strong production, and a band really stretching themselves out musically. I’m dying to know what’s considered good if these are considered bad.

Master, Ride and Justice?

Yup. For those of us who were actually there in the 80s, that 90s stuff totally lacked heaviness and intensity. Simple as that.

 

[MirrorMask]

Also, another "fun fact" about their decision to use each and every single song of the Load/Reload sessions:

Load ran too long as an album, so they cut out one minute or so from the end of The Outlaw Torn, whose full version was eventually released as a B-side with the funny title "The Outlaw Torn (Unencumbered by Manufacturing Restrictions version)".

Yup, you read it right: they chose to cut the ending of a song that is often cited as one of the very best of that era, because apparently we needed at all costs to hear Cure and Poor Twisted Me 

[Mladen]

My first copies of both Load and Reload featured the shortened closing tracks. Could that be why?

[KevShmev]

I won't give them too much grief for the decision to shorten The Outlaw Torn a tad to fit other songs since that was during that time period where artists everywhere were taking advantage of being able to get nearly 80 minutes on to a CD and putting as much as they could on there, after years and years of having to work around the constraints of vinyl, for instance.  It was a learning curve, and the cycle came back around to where many now do focus on making the album as good as possible and without feeling the need to just fill up the whole album.

[425]

You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.

Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.

Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said 

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.

To some extent I'm sure this mentality still exists today, especially in more underground genres, but it feels utterly alien to me. Like, I just can't imagine many people today getting mad over some musician's haircut. I think the closest equivalent in the 2010s of "Metallica sold out" is "Opeth went soft," but that was a far more dramatic shift in style that seems to have had less of a tribal backlash. I don't think I've ever seen personal hate directed at Mikael Åkerfeldt—mainly just disappointment from those who don't care for the new direction.

Anyway, I find that whole mindset really toxic and antithetical to creativity. Creative art doesn't come from doing exactly what the members of a tribal subculture surrounding your style of music want you to do. It comes from the artist finding his own inspiration and making his own judgments about what kind of art to make. Beyond that, it's just utterly wrong to treat musicians as though they belong to the fans and it's a betrayal if they do something the fans don't want them to do. They don't "owe" anything to the fans beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly in the sale of recorded music and concert tickets. (Similarly, the fans don't owe anything to the musicians beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly. They don't owe it to them to buy the new album if they don't like the new style.) They certainly don't owe it to the fans to take months of their lives to write and record music in a style that doesn't interest them anymore just because members of the subculture demand that you must always and exclusively make tr00 metal (within very narrow parameters) or you're a traitor. And it's hard for me to imagine how people get to the point of thinking that way about music. I think there are similar tribal trends in politics, and there I understand it a bit more (even though I still think it's really wrong) because politics can affect people's lives in dramatic ways, but I really don't get it in music.

[KevShmev]

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.

To some extent I'm sure this mentality still exists today, especially in more underground genres, but it feels utterly alien to me. Like, I just can't imagine many people today getting mad over some musician's haircut. I think the closest equivalent in the 2010s of "Metallica sold out" is "Opeth went soft," but that was a far more dramatic shift in style that seems to have had less of a tribal backlash. I don't think I've ever seen personal hate directed at Mikael Åkerfeldt—mainly just disappointment from those who don't care for the new direction.

Anyway, I find that whole mindset really toxic and antithetical to creativity. Creative art doesn't come from doing exactly what the members of a tribal subculture surrounding your style of music want you to do. It comes from the artist finding his own inspiration and making his own judgments about what kind of art to make. Beyond that, it's just utterly wrong to treat musicians as though they belong to the fans and it's a betrayal if they do something the fans don't want them to do. They don't "owe" anything to the fans beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly in the sale of recorded music and concert tickets. (Similarly, the fans don't owe anything to the musicians beyond dealing with them fairly and honestly. They don't owe it to them to buy the new album if they don't like the new style.) They certainly don't owe it to the fans to take months of their lives to write and record music in a style that doesn't interest them anymore just because members of the subculture demand that you must always and exclusively make tr00 metal (within very narrow parameters) or you're a traitor. And it's hard for me to imagine how people get to the point of thinking that way about music. I think there are similar tribal trends in politics, and there I understand it a bit more (even though I still think it's really wrong) because politics can affect people's lives in dramatic ways, but I really don't get it in music.

*golf clap*

This is Post of the Year material.   

[MirrorMask]

For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.

Me personally, I had just became a metalhead the year before, I started to listen to foreign and heavy music with Bon Jovi and then Guns n' Roses, then upgraded from hard rock to metal with Iron Maide and Metallica, then onto Helloween and Blind Guardian. I didn't have that much musical background to understand all the nuances of what Metallica was trying to do.

I didn't outright hate Load and Reload, I tolerated them and enjoyed my favorite songs, but in a sense I "had to live" with them because that's what all they offered. I didn't have a much wider mentality that would make me too laugh at people being pissed off for a haircut. I listen to so much different stuff now, back then all I knew was power metal and classic heavy metal, and the only musical reference from New Jersey was Bon Jovi for me - and now I'm kicking myself for having discovered Bruce Springsteen 10-15 years too late. I just wasn't ready for what Metallica was trying to do, I liked the songs I liked, disliked the songs I disliked, and moved on, living with those albums because it was whatever was new from Metallica at the time.

[jammindude]

Tribal is an excellent way of explaining it. When I was in high school, there were “rockers”, “wavers”, and “rappers”....and the outliers obviously. But most belonged to one group or another, and if you listened to any music outside your “tribe”, that was “gay”.

Yes...it does seem extraordinarily silly now. But how many things look stupid when you’re an adult looking back at a group of teenagers?

[Zantera]

I remember something similar in my teenage years at school. I was part of the 'metal gang' but you also had the hip-hop/rap gang, you had the alternative gang and so on. It was very important to stay fairly true to the group you were in because you wanted a group of people to belong with and if you strayed outside that chances were you would end up the lonewolf in between classes and such.

But I think as we grow older, at least for the most part with some exceptions (like metalarchives) your brain tends to evolve and you realize there's good things to be found everywhere and the 'limitations' you put on yourself as a teenager to try and fit in only hurts yourself really.

[TAC]

If you're actually taking recommendations from the peanut gallery, I'd suggest listening to Fixxxer on its own. It comes at the end of an album you don't particularly like, which doesn't exactly prepare the ground for a warm reception.

So I'm going to listen to the album, but I took you up on this and ran through Fixxxer.

Honestly, it's an 8 minute plod-a-thon. It stays at one pace the whole time. The chorus is ok, and works much better the third time around after the slow middle part, but as soon as the song shows some life, it ends right away.

I couldn't ever imagine myself listening to this on my own. There's really nothing there. It just feels way underdeveloped.

[KevShmev]

I can see that.  I listened to Fixxxer the other day and came away thinking it wasn't quite as good as I remembered, although I still liked it.  There are probably a handful of songs from ReLoad that are much better.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Fixxxer is probably tied with Carpe Diem Baby for best song on the album for me

[Kotowboy]

The funny thing is all the metal people saying that St Anger was better than Load & Reload " cause at least its metal "..

Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.

[Ruba]

It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.

[Stadler]

You're definitively right, I lived through the Load era - actually the first album to come out once I became a fan - and back then, the dislike was widespread, in that time and age the combo of change of style, change of look and widespread MTV exposure (and toss in Napster as well) was a combination of elements that all worked against the album.

Remember also it was a time when "metal was dead", grunge was on the rise, the '80s were long gone, the giants of the genre were at a low point (Maiden, Priest, Sabbath), and Metallica rather than saving the genre they went full alternative.... it was a mess.

Of course years after the fact new fans approach the era with a more open mind and find the actual good in those albums, but back then the general consensus was "We lost Metallica, they sold out". Which people already thought with the Black Album, or when they did a video for One, or when they used acoustic guitars on Fade to Black like you said 

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but... this whole attitude toward music is utterly bizarre to me. I wasn't alive in the 80s or much of the 90s, so I wasn't around back then, but whenever I read or hear about music fans during that era, it always sounds to me like a lot of people had a tribal mentality around musical style. By that I mean a mentality where it is very important to follow all the "rules" of the in-group of a particular genre of music—from musical style to clothes to hair to how you talk to the press—and where it's considered not just a difference of opinion or change of attitude when someone deviates from those rules, but a betrayal of the group—of the tribe.

It was absolutely that way, and extended to other things like hair and dress.   The list of great guitar players that "might" have been in Kiss but just didn't "look the part" is as long as your arm (and instead we got Mark St. John.   ).

I sort of dodged that bullet, because in high school I was sort of a chameleon (I lived near the hoods, I was in classes with the brains, and I played varsity sports with the rest of the jocks).  That means, of course, I was not REALLY in any of them, but still.   Though I'm surprised it was that strong for Load/Re-Load (since grunge already hit) it was very real.   And, in my mind, very stupid.  It's not like Kirk and James were Samson.  For me, I WASN'T a hard core Metallica fan (I'm not entirely sure I had even heard RtL and MoP at the time I first heard TBA/Load/Re-Load) so for me it was MUSIC.  And since I liked the way James was singing now - Hero Of The Day is a top five Met song for me - I liked those records more than I think most of you do.

But the wrath they endured was real and hardcore.

[KevShmev]

   And since I liked the way James was singing now - Hero Of The Day is a top five Met song for me - I liked those records more than I think most of you do.

Not like I spend much time thinking of James Hetfield's best vocals , but the verses to Hero of the Day are about the best his voice has ever sounded when it comes to nailing a melody.

[DTA]

His vocals in the chorus of Until it Sleeps are really powerful. Really aggressive but melodic too.

[dparrott]

I'd rather hear bands change over the course of their long careers than stay mostly the same (Oasis, AC/DC).  DT is kind of the exception to that but every album after SC (except Astonishing) has been kinda "by the book", not much difference musically, kind of predictable.

[TheCountOfNYC]

James has always been one of the most underrated singers in rock music. The Load albums and Garage Inc. really showcase how great he can actually be.

[TAC]

It took some time for Fixxxer to open for me. I sort of see it as a counterpart for The Outlaw Torn with a positive ending.

Yeah I thought of this while listening, but I didn't find Fixxxer to be in The Outlaw Torn's league.

[TAC]

Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.

Some people, sure. But Load was a 360 from Justice. If you were a fan of Justice and Metallica at the time, you'd have done a double take too.
Load has a ton of great tunes, and it sounds great, so I wouldn't behoove someone from liking Load. And for someone who came after the fact, it's easy to pick and choose what albums you (not YOU personally Kboy) like, and it's easy to see why someone would pick Load over Justice, especially if you're not a thrash fan.

For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.

I was thinking that with The Black Album.
Oddly, I wasn't really thinking that when Load came out. It felt like an extension or progression from TBA.

I feel a lot of it may have to do with people's "jumping on" points.  Keep in mind there were original fans who thought the band sold out when they released "Fade To Black". 

Yup. This is true.

I'd rather hear bands change over the course of their long careers than stay mostly the same

Load is a quality album. I never felt Metallica was holding back or selling out with it. It wasn't the direction I was looking for, but I understood and respected it., And there's a few songs that I really like on it.
The haircuts never bothered me. I thought it was an interesting look. They just looked like people growing up. Their look never had any influence on me liking the music. I actually thought the photoshoot was cool.

[pg1067]

Which just shows that some people at least chose not to like The Loads simply cause they weren't And Justice For All.

Some people, sure. But Load was a 360 from Justice. If you were a fan of Justice and Metallica at the time, you'd have done a double take too.

Load was a 180 (a "360" would land you back where you started, so a "360" would be exactly the same thing).  But yeah, there were lots of things that Metallica could have done that wasn't AJFA but was still good.  The folks who don't like the Loads don't like them because they kinda suck (subjectively speaking).

For the record, 425, I agree with you, I'm just reporting how it was back at the time. Surely there had been people who enjoyed the album for what it was, but that "Metallica sold out" thing was real.

I was thinking that with The Black Album.
Oddly, I wasn't really thinking that when Load came out. It felt like an extension or progression from TBA.

Yeah...TBA was the "sellout" album.  I remember hearing Sandman for the first time and thinking it sounded like a dumbed down version of the band for people who didn't like Metalica.  For me, Load was "two strikes and you're out."  It was an indicator that a band I loved was abandoning me as a fan.  I returned the album to the store, and the only Metallica album I've bought since then was the original S&M.

[KevShmev]

The Black Album > Load > ...And Justice for All

[TAC]

Load was a 180 (a "360" would land you back where you started, so a "360" would be exactly the same thing). 

 
Damn Geometry!

Yeah...TBA was the "sellout" album.  I remember hearing Sandman for the first time and thinking it sounded like a dumbed down version of the band for people who didn't like Metalica.  For me, Load was "two strikes and you're out."  It was an indicator that a band I loved was abandoning me as a fan. 

I agree. It was like Empire (TBA) and then Promised Land (LOAD).  It wasn't that Empire and TBA were bad albums. They weren't, and I liked them, but it got me very cautious about where they were going next.



PG, you'll appreciate this as I know you were a Helloween fan.

In the summer of 1991, I went to visit my college roommate who lived in Wayne NJ. It was during this trip that The Black Album was finally released. He lived near an awesome record store, Sound Exchange, which also dealt in imports. So I also bought Helloween's new album, Pink Bubbles Go Ape on Import. It wasn't available domestically. Anyway, I spent my drive back to Massachusetts rotating these two albums. I was at a loss for words..WTF happened to these two bands??

The good news is that both albums have aged remarkably well, each helped by what followed them.

[LudwigVan]

I wouldn't be too harsh in judging "meathead metal fans" for their reaction to Load, or even TBA for that matter.

It's easier to judge the merits of an album 10-20 years down the road, when you're a 30-40 year-old looking back over the career arc of a given band, instead of as an alienated HS teenager latching onto a band's music like your life depended on it. As the music is happening, you live through the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations of your idols, almost as if you were a fan of a sports team. There are euphoric wins and epic losses, and it can be tough to be objective about it as you're living through it.

Music doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes on the meaning of the moment, whether it's the Anti-war/Vietnam movement of the 60s, the Punk movement of the 70s, Thrash of the 80s... Grunge of the 90s... I guess this is where the tribalism comes in. For better or worse, you defined yourself by it, with the connection going beyond just the music itself. And if you were a thrash fan, Metallica basically went over to the other side by glomming onto the musical and stylistic trappings of Alice In Chains and the other Grunge bands. It felt like a betrayal.

[MirrorMask]

I wouldn't be too harsh in judging "meathead metal fans" for their reaction to Load, or even TBA for that matter.

It's easier to judge the merits of an album 10-20 years down the road, when you're a 30-40 year-old looking back over the career arc of a given band, instead of as an alienated HS teenager latching onto a band's music like your life depended on it. As the music is happening, you live through the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations of your idols, almost as if you were a fan of a sports team. There are euphoric wins and epic losses, and it can be tough to be objective about it as you're living through it.

Music doesn't happen in a vacuum. It takes on the meaning of the moment, whether it's the Anti-war/Vietnam movement of the 60s, the Punk movement of the 70s, Thrash of the 80s... Grunge of the 90s... I guess this is where the tribalism comes in. For better or worse, you defined yourself by it, with the connection going beyond just the music itself. And if you were a thrash fan, Metallica basically went over to the other side by glomming onto the musical and stylistic trappings of Alice In Chains and the other Grunge bands. It felt like a betrayal.

Brilliant post.

Yeah, as I said, I agree too with those "fans shouldn't be so narrow minded and tribal in their judgement of music", but it's easy to say that 20 years after the fact. When you live it in real time, it's totally different, people's tastes can and will change. As I said before, my beginning with hard rock was Bon Jovi in 1995, and now in 2021 I'm cursing myself for not having started with ANOTHER New Jersey guy, Bruce Springsteen. And if you had me listening to Springsteen in 1996 when all I knew was Iron Maiden and Metallica, I would probably thought he was boring as hell and sucked balls. Now I wish I would have discovered him 10 years ago. People change and their music tastes too.

[Stadler]

The whole notion of "sell-out" is as old as time.   To many, REM sold out with "Fables", then sold out again with "Out Of Time".   The Police were legends who sold out with Synchronicity.   There's ALWAYS a pocket group of fans, there from the beginning (or near to) that seem to want their favorite artists to maintain that level of "anonymity".   As Jammindude about the Seattle scene.  He'll tell you; Soundgarden sold out with Superunknown (maybe even with Badmotorfinger).  Pearl Jam - coming from the ashes of the more traditionally grunge Mother Love Bone and Green River - was a sell-out from day friggin' one.  Twisted Sister sold out with Stay Hungry.  Bruce sold out with Born In The USA.   Def Leppard sold out with Pyromania. Aerosmith sold out with Pump.   U2 sold out with The Joshua Tree (or maybe Achtung Baby).

I don't get that mentality of expecting your artists to, basically, limit their art.  What's the point of writing a song if no one hears it?  It's human nature for someone that WANTS to get on a stage, that WANTS to have piopular songs, that WANTS people to buy their record and listen to their music... should somehow want to curb that once it's there for them.   I know for me, I heard TBA and thought "wow, that's Metallica joining the heavyweights.  Moving from a niche to a more central place in the pantheon of metal/hard rock music."  That's a band growing and maturing and tapping into their real art.