Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[EPICVIEW]

Thus thread prompted me to spin HitNF last night. It had been many years. My daughter was 6 yrs old when this came out. Hard to believe. Anyways I always enjoyed this album but last night confirmed there are some highs and lows. The run from the EP through PL is almost unmatched in quality so it was inevitable that there had to be a falloff eventually. The highs save the album from being pretty dismal. Tate still sounded amazing and this too helps save the album.

yup  Chris wanted to strip it down and grunge it up and Tate was all for it... In some ways the Fans being down on HITNF told Chris it was kinda over and to pursue his dream of flying as Chris today still loves Grunge and Folk and has no interest in metal it appears still. Chris spoke about his burnout running the band also and Tate being the only help he was getting with the LLC and his wanting to not be like his father and be there for his family,  all of this is in old interviews etc. my OPINION is that the band made a mistake holding the door open for Chris to come back as in hindsight they probably needed to get a real force to enter the band and assist in writing etc..  I believe that Chris remained a partner in the LLC for a few years after he left and I wonder how his stock was resolved and if that was an issue.   

QR is an odd band for how great their original band was and how it came unglued ...cue EMI and BOOM
 

[Mebert78]

I think HITNF is one of the most interesting albums to dissect in progressive metal history.  I mean, it's the last album to feature a "full" contribution from one of the most creative forces in the genre's history before he pretty much disappeared totally from the music world aside from the occasional guest appearance.  One of the biggest things that stood out to me while revisiting HITNF is that the band was trying to have "fun" with these collections of songs.  The preceding three albums (OM, Empire and PL) were some of the most intense records emotionally and musically that I have ever heard in my life -- particularly the dark and introspective Promised Land.   Looking back, I feel like the band likely burned out on the intensity and wanted to do something "lighter."  I can't really blame them, as they conquered the darkness and were ready for a new direction.  I didn't realize it at the time, but the song "Two Miles High" from the Promised Land video game was probably a precursor of the change in sound.  That song was the bridge between Promised Land and HITNF.  Anyway, I can now look back and appreciate HITNF, but I do agree that there are highs and lows.  In my opinion, the album would've benefited from a re-ordering of the songs and cutting or replacing a couple of them.  Like I said earlier, I think the blistering "Hit the Black" would've been a killer opener and first single instead of having it buried later in the album, while the mid-tempo "Sign of the Times" and "Cuckoo's Nest" would've been better positioned elsewhere in the record.  Some small changes and cuts like that could've made a bit of a difference in how the record was received. 

[bosk1]

To me, Hit The Black is by far the standout track on the album. I also love Anytime/Anywhere.

Okay, now I'm convinced that you just have to be trolling the thread.  Nobody likes either of those songs.

my OPINION is that the band made a mistake holding the door open for Chris to come back as in hindsight they probably needed to get a real force to enter the band and assist in writing etc.. 

Interesting take.  I didn't care for Kelly in the band.  Initially, I liked what Stone brought to the table on the Tribe tour, but I quickly soured on his playing and tone and was really glad to see him go.  As a player, Parker really nailed it and was just about perfect.  He developed his chops to become more than competent enough to play anything the band wanted to do, was willing to do his homework and put in the work to really show a lot of respect to how Chris played his parts on the older material, and injected just enough of his own style to sound current and relevant.  But I don't think he brought much to the table in terms of writing.  Not sure whether or not he could, and I think a lot of him not doing much may have simply been the dynamic of the band, especially when he was first brought in by Tate. 

In any case, I am somewhat with you on wishing they were able to take the time to find a real powerhouse that could step in and fill Chris's shoes.  But from everything I've heard, it seems more likely than not that if it wasn't Kelly stepping in, they would have just called it a day and disbanded.  I could be wrong, but it seems like that's at least where Geoff was at the time. 

[devieira73]

I really like HITNF, the only song on it I find truly boring is Hero. Sure, it's very very different from PL, in fact, almost the opposite kind of album, but, for my personal level of liking, I like a lot them both as much (which I think it's the weirdest combined opinion on both albums I ever saw). But both are bellow the incredible sequence from The Warning to Empire. I was listening to LaTorre era these days- which I also like a lot - but I think it's a tad below PL and HITNF. Maybe because it lacks that "magic"chemistry of the classic era, but it's above the remaining albums, including Tribe, that had nothing of the old chemistry at all IMO.
A bit of a delusional thought, but what if Jim Matheos joined QR after Chris left?

[EPICVIEW]

I really like HITNF, the only song on it I find truly boring is Hero. Sure, it's very very different from PL, in fact, almost the opposite kind of album, but, for my personal level of liking, I like a lot them both as much (which I think it's the weirdest combined opinion on both albums I ever saw). But both are bellow the incredible sequence from The Warning to Empire. I was listening to LaTorre era these days- which I also like a lot - but I think it's a tad below PL and HITNF. Maybe because it lacks that "magic"chemistry of the classic era, but it's above the remaining albums, including Tribe, that had nothing of the old chemistry at all IMO.
A bit of a delusional thought, but what if Jim Matheos joined QR after Chris left?

its always interesting to think "who could Geoff have brought in to replace Chris and work with him on writing and vision"  ive always been very down on Wilton as he never stepped up after Chris left and it showed how little he had to offer IMO.
I have to think Chris thought he band would end with him leaving and Geoff would move on as there was that rumor Geoff would go to Journey?? ( I always found that odd.. I cant see that all lol )

[Samsara]

I was definitely disappointed in HITNF, but at least I could see what they were going for. The same cannot be said for their previous album.

If you are referring to Digital Noise Alliance, then I totally agree with you. I like some of the tunes for sure. But what stood out to me was that it was a very much "let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks." Whereas, The Verdict and Condition Human seemed very much albums where they each felt like everything belonged on those collections.

I could be way off, as I really haven't inVESTed time into modern QR lately. Been working on the historical stuff and books on them. But the sentiment that clearly hit me listening to DNA a couple of times was "they aren't sure what they want this to be." Maybe that was on purpose. I have no idea.

Going back to HITNF, it's certainly one of the more polarizing albums in QR's catalog. But QR back then didn't care about genre, particularly subgenres. They were very clear about that. They were a rock band that was heavier. Everything was on the table.

Remember that phrase Tate used during the lawsuits to describe QR's manta? "No limits." Doing research for the stuff I'm working on, he was actually right. That phrase is said by him (and Chris) many times in interviews throughout their careers. And in retrospect, HITNF is just one example of that.

I didn't realize it at the time, but the song "Two Miles High" from the Promised Land video game was probably a precursor of the change in sound.  That song was the bridge between Promised Land and HITNF.  Anyway, I can now look back and appreciate HITNF, but I do agree that there are highs and lows.  In my opinion, the album would've benefited from a re-ordering of the songs and cutting or replacing a couple of them.  Like I said earlier, I think the blistering "Hit the Black" would've been a killer opener and first single instead of having it buried later in the album, while the mid-tempo "Sign of the Times" and "Cuckoo's Nest" would've been better positioned elsewhere in the record.  Some small changes and cuts like that could've made a bit of a difference in how the record was received. 

Great observation on "Two Mile High." I agree completely. I think it is a nice bridge to where they were, and where they were going. I wouldn't say though that they wanted to go "lighter," but I certainly think they wanted a simpler approach to the music. Not so overly-processed.

Also agree on small changes to the running order and tracks. But seriously, the biggest issue regarding the reception of HITNF was the label going under. Those first two singles were well received and big on the radio...until EMI shuttered and then the radio station had no one from them pushing the tracks. It's all a business. Had the label not gone under, the U.S. tour likely would have sold as well as PL Tour did, and QR would have gone to Europe as well. HITNF would have been Gold, and songs like "spOOL" and likely "Reach" would have been singles too. Maybe even "Some People Fly." The record would have had legs.

HITNF was a sound for the times, just like Empire was. The difference was, Empire had every single dollar from the record company thrown at it - hard. And it worked. There was no money (or label) to throw at HITNF after the first month of release.

Regarding people who could have been brought in, Ty Tabor was asked in 2008. He declined, respectfully, as he and King's X had just released an album. Be he was really honored to be asked. I personally think that would have been cool. I'll have more on that as time goes on. Can't quite talk about what I'm doing next. Not yet. 

[EPICVIEW]

Okay, now I'm convinced that you just have to be trolling the thread.  Nobody likes either of those songs.

Interesting take.  I didn't care for Kelly in the band.  Initially, I liked what Stone brought to the table on the Tribe tour, but I quickly soured on his playing and tone and was really glad to see him go.  As a player, Parker really nailed it and was just about perfect.  He developed his chops to become more than competent enough to play anything the band wanted to do, was willing to do his homework and put in the work to really show a lot of respect to how Chris played his parts on the older material, and injected just enough of his own style to sound current and relevant.  But I don't think he brought much to the table in terms of writing.  Not sure whether or not he could, and I think a lot of him not doing much may have simply been the dynamic of the band, especially when he was first brought in by Tate. 

In any case, I am somewhat with you on wishing they were able to take the time to find a real powerhouse that could step in and fill Chris's shoes.  But from everything I've heard, it seems more likely than not that if it wasn't Kelly stepping in, they would have just called it a day and disbanded.  I could be wrong, but it seems like that's at least where Geoff was at the time.

Good to see you Boss!!!  its fun to look back on as its sadly long ago now and speculate, The Kelly thing I kinda felt like was Geoff now helping Kelly many many years after leaving Myth for The Mob to make QR ( both high school bands at the time ) and kinda healing that wound of leaving Myth for the now formed QR (The Mob who did not have a singer got Geoff and became QR) that was signed and soon to become a famous band . I did like Q2K but again Myth was Prog and I think Kelly was not the right person. 

have a great day!

[nick_z]

If you are referring to Digital Noise Alliance, then I totally agree with you.

Pretty sure Tim meant Promised Land (and he’s wrong )

[Setzer]

HITNF was a sound for the times, just like Empire was. The difference was, Empire had every single dollar from the record company thrown at it - hard. And it worked. There was no money (or label) to throw at HITNF after the first month of release.

I saw an interview with Geoff last year (or was it 2022? Or maybe before that? Time flies). He said he met one of the A&R guys from the EMI days, and asked how come Empire was so massively succesful? What made the album that much better than their previous releases?
And Geoff was told the album was as great as all their previous efforts, but EMI in North America spent $6M USD on promoting Empire.

Of course as a fan, I think it's a mix of both.

[Samsara]

I remember that interview. Yeah. A lot of it, at least back then, came down to money. Empire was a great record, no doubt about it. It had the songs that were a great blend of the band's intelligent approach to music, and a more mainstream appeal wrapped into one, and one of the best mixed albums and overall sound of that era. And from a live show standpoint, it was Queensryche at the absolute height of their collective powers. All that played a massive part, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But yeah, when you throw that kind of money at promoting something (and that was a lot back in the day), it's going to gain traction.

With HITNF, I believe they had the songs of the time, but they had no label after the first month or so. So with no promotion money, no tour support, etc., it just withered and died. Say what you want about Promised Land. I love that record, and think it's great. But it didn't have mainstream appeal AT ALL. And EMI threw millions at THAT too, and it was one-third as commercially successful as Empire. I've always argued two things: The wrong singles were chosen from Promised Land, and overall, HITNF was much more commercial than PL.

Anyway, always cool to look back at decisions made and things that happened.

[EPICVIEW]

I remember that interview. Yeah. A lot of it, at least back then, came down to money. Empire was a great record, no doubt about it. It had the songs that were a great blend of the band's intelligent approach to music, and a more mainstream appeal wrapped into one, and one of the best mixed albums and overall sound of that era. And from a live show standpoint, it was Queensryche at the absolute height of their collective powers. All that played a massive part, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But yeah, when you throw that kind of money at promoting something (and that was a lot back in the day), it's going to gain traction.

With HITNF, I believe they had the songs of the time, but they had no label after the first month or so. So with no promotion money, no tour support, etc., it just withered and died. Say what you want about Promised Land. I love that record, and think it's great. But it didn't have mainstream appeal AT ALL. And EMI threw millions at THAT too, and it was one-third as commercially successful as Empire. I've always argued two things: The wrong singles were chosen from Promised Land, and overall, HITNF was much more commercial than PL.

Anyway, always cool to look back at decisions made and things that happened.

I agree that HITNF was much more AOR friendly than PL

[jjrock88]

Promised Land is awesome, but not even remotely commercial.  Wasn't Disconnected a single and video?  That song had no chance at commercial success.

[Samsara]

Wasn't Disconnected a single and video?  That song had no chance at commercial success.

Yeah, it was. "I Am I", "Bridge" and "Dis-con-nec-ted." I also have "Someone Else?" on CD as a promotional single, which was released about the same time as the Promised Land CD-Rom.

I always thought these were the obvious singles:

"Damaged"
"Bridge"
"My Global Mind"
"One More Time"

I think they would have performed well. "I Am I" was a little weird for a single, at least to my ears.

But the whole album is so dark, even those tracks. I'm not even sure those songs would have gotten PL radio play or MTV play. Especially at the height of grunge in 1994/1995.

[TAC]

I think they would have performed well. "I Am I" was a little weird for a single, at least to my ears.

That's because it's a garbled mess.

And I just remember when Bridge was released, I just rolled my eyes as it was basically Silent Lucidity 2 but only half as good.


Still, they did a headlining tour.


Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in with that comment. I've been reading this last page with interest, trying to recall in my mind how things were with the Empire, and PL, and HITNF releases.

[jjrock88]

My Global Mind and One More Time would have been better singles.  But I don't think either would have lead to much more success for the album.  Real World is an excellent song and should have been on the original release.  Was Real World released as a single from Last Action Hero?

[Samsara]

Was Real World released as a single from Last Action Hero?

Yes it was!

I also wish it was on Promised Land. They have two songs that were done before PL was issued - "Real World" and "Dirty Lil Secret." My guess is, they did those two songs and the movie folks picked "Real World." But since "Dirty Lil Secret" doesn't really fit the vibe of PL, they probably just figured they'd leave that off and use it as a b-side. I love that track. But it doesn't fit PL. But "Real World" - hell yes. Having that on PL would have been great. It was amazing on the PL tour.

[jjrock88]

Real World is such an interesting song.  It's excellent

[WardySI]

I'm in the minority knowing Someone Else works perfectly where it is as a closer but IMO Real World should've finished Promised Land.  Its finale is well in line with Eyes and Anybody Listening as closing numbers too.

Have always felt One More Time would've been the perfect crossover pre-release single.  Still had some Empire vibes but a taste of what was to come with Promised Land

[ReaperKK]

Real World is such an interesting song.  It's excellent

It's probably my favorite QR song. It was my first introduction to QR through the Last Action Hero soundtrack.

[Samsara]

Have always felt One More Time would've been the perfect crossover pre-release single.  Still had some Empire vibes but a taste of what was to come with Promised Land

I agree (as you saw above) that One More Time should have been a single. But I think Damaged should have been the lead single. Anybody Listening and Real World were the last singles (from 1992 and 1993, respectively) that people last heard QR. I would have just gone straight heavy to hook the interest of metal fans that perhaps scratched their heads with Empire. Then I would have went Bridge, My Global Mind, and One More Time. That's how I would have done it.

I think PL threw EMI executives as much as it threw fans. I really do think they expected either an Empire II, or what we got with Hear in the Now Frontier. Getting this dark, non-commercial, very moody and mid-tempo introspective thing...I just know if I was a marketing person with EMI at the time, I would have been at a loss. The singles I suggested would be what I would have thrown out there, if I was one of the team making the call.

[WardySI]

I agree (as you saw above) that One More Time should have been a single. But I think Damaged should have been the lead single. Anybody Listening and Real World were the last singles (from 1992 and 1993, respectively) that people last heard QR. I would have just gone straight heavy to hook the interest of metal fans that perhaps scratched their heads with Empire. Then I would have went Bridge, My Global Mind, and One More Time. That's how I would have done it.

I think PL threw EMI executives as much as it threw fans. I really do think they expected either an Empire II, or what we got with Hear in the Now Frontier. Getting this dark, non-commercial, very moody and mid-tempo introspective thing...I just know if I was a marketing person with EMI at the time, I would have been at a loss. The singles I suggested would be what I would have thrown out there, if I was one of the team making the call.

Yep absolutely saw your post above, think we've agreed on the merits of One More Time had it been a single before

Almost replied no to your thoughts on Damaged but after stopping to think it through I can see your point and hadn't considered what had been released to radio before the Promised Land promo (Anybody and Real World).  I can see the merits of Damaged being the promo single a month or so out from release, certainly can't argue its heavy driving bottom end of Damaged and it's dark as fuck vibe would've been very exciting leading into Promised Land.  I would've then dropped One More Time as single for the album release but regardless, good call.

Back on topic above regarding Empire, interestingly I just found a cool Kerrang article for Q2k in which Tate states he sees no difference in it and Empire as Q2k was modelled off Empire.  So after two further records it was his opinion they return to the Empire template I found interesting.  Because aside from the fact it got zero budget when compared to Empire, well we know how that turned out 

Sidenote I did and still really enjoy Q2k but 2c and all.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I can totally get onboard with those singles in that order.  Personally, I like I Am I better than Damaged (it's my second favorite song on the album behind the title track), but Damaged is much more accessible and better as a single.  I didn't love Bridge, but it's a good song, and I think would have gotten more traction as a single had more people actually noticed the album, which I think would have happened with Damaged as the lead single.  The others are decent songs.  Probably would not have gotten a ton of play, but would have at least kept the album relevant.

I have no idea how Tate thinks Empire and Q2K have anything in common.  That's a bit strange. 

[WardySI]

I have no idea how Tate thinks Empire and Q2K have anything in common.  That's a bit strange.

I know right?  May have been just a throwaway attempt at some promo who knows!?  The interview was at the time of Q2k's release so probably. 

[Grappler]

I found that interview on a quick search.  This is the quote:

The announcement of new guitarist Kelly Gray, says Tate, has given the band a new lease of life. "The whole experience brought the band closer together again," reasons the singer. "We were really dysfunctional before and I think we're a lot healthier now. We saw that we could have a shot at it again."

THAT SHOT came in the shape of last year's 'Q2K' opus. Its an album that Geoff Tate insists is a return to former glories. "I see no diffference in it and 'Empire'," he shrugs. "They're basically modelled after each other - 'Q2K' is basically an 'Empire' for the year 2000."

I understand his point - I've always felt like Empire's songs were based around some of the common topics of the era, human experiences or common human-relationship themes.  Granted, I was 10 years old in 1990 and had zero life experience about this - but you have songs about homelessness, accidental shootings, romantic relationships, the environment.

Q2K has a lot of lyrics about romantic relationships or family, human emotion and experience, coming with 10 additional years of life experience to build on.

[Samsara]

I totally see Tate's point. Empire was aiming at the mainstream. HITNF was aiming at the mainstream. And Q2k was too. From a musical perspective at least.

But the thing is, I know I'm very skeptical, but I don't think Tate really even meant that as truth. I think he was saying what he was saying because he's marketing. Or at least attempting to. Q2k was very organic. They got in a room and jammed on ideas. Q2k has a loose element to it, as Gray once told me. He even admitted it wasn't the best record, but he thought it was good, and a nice starting point for the five of them. I tend to agree on that latter point. It didn't work out with Gray, but musically, I would have liked to have seen where it went on another album with him.