DT the League 2015 - Results, Standings and Discussion Thread.

[hefdaddy42]

I think they were still figuring out things like that on the first album.  That may explain why my favorite song on that album is Ytse Jam.   

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 2, Week 2 Results
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=42985.0

1.   The Dance of Eternity defeats The Enemy Inside 18-10
2.   This Dying Soul defeats Surrender to Reason 16-13
3.   This is the Life defeats Innocence Faded 17-11
4.   Wait For Sleep defeats Erotomania 16-12
5.   Strange Déjà vu defeats Behind the Veil 22-6
6.   Endless Sacrifice defeats Lie 16-12
7.   Misunderstood defeats Peruvian Skies 19-10
8.   On the Backs of Angels  defeats Through Her Eyes 19-9
9.   These Walls defeats The Best of Times 21-8
10.   Surrounded defeats One Last Time 24-4
11.   The Root of All Evil defeats Caught in a Web 15-13
12.   6:00 defeats A Nightmare to Remember 16-13
13.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream defeats Another Day 15-13
14.   Panic Attack defeats Afterlife 19-9
15.   The Ministry of Lost Souls defeats Sacrificed Sons 15-13
16.   The Bigger Picture defeats Outcry 16-12



Division 2 Rankings after Week 2 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 2 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 1. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 3).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   Strange déjà vu 2-0 (+32)
2.   Misunderstood 2-0 (+25)
3.   Surrounded 2-0 (+23)
4.   These Walls 2-0 (+14)
5.   The Root of All Evil 2-0 (+10)
6.   This Dying Soul 2-0 (+7)
7.   Endless Sacrifice 2-0 (+6)
8.   The Ministry of Lost Souls 2-0 (+5)
9.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream 2-0 (+3)
10.   Lie 1-1 (+11)
11.   On the Backs of Angels 1-1 (+9)
12.   Caught in a Web 1-1 (+7)
13.   Panic Attack 1-1 (+7)
14.   The Dance of Eternity 1-1 (+5)
15.   Another Day 1-1 (+3)
16.   Erotomania 1-1 (+3)
17.   This is the Life 1-1 (+3)
18.   6:00 1-1 (+2)
19.   Wait For Sleep 1-1 (+1)
20.   Surrender to Reason 1-1 (0)
21.   Outcry 1-1 (-1)
22.   The Bigger Picture 1-1 (-3)
23.   Peruvian Skies 1-1 (-6)
24.   Sacrificed Sons 0-2 (-4)
25.   A Nightmare to Remember 0-2 (-7)
26.   The Enemy Inside 0-2 (-13)
27.   Innocence Faded 0-2 (-15)
28.   Behind the Veil 0-2 (-19)
29.   Through Her Eyes 0-2 (-25)
30.   Afterlife 0-2 (-26)
31.   One Last Time 0-2 (-28)
32.   The Best of Times 0-2 (-29)

[RoeDent]

3.   This is the Life defeats Innocence Faded 17-11

Woohoo! *fist pump* (Love Innocence Faded, but prefer TITL, hence the celebration)

4.   Wait For Sleep defeats Erotomania 16-12

REALLY?!! I love Erotomania, but this is a HUGE shock! I did not expect to see a 2-minute prelude track beat one of DT's most highly-regarded instrumentals!

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 1, Week 2 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=42992.0

1.   Take the Time defeats In the Presence of Enemies 20-8
2.   #12 The Spirit Carries On & #15 Voices tie 14-14
3.   #11 Metropolis defeats The Great Debate 23-6
4.   #1 Breaking All Illusions defeats  #10 Disappear 22-7
5.   #13 The Count of Tuscany defeats Trial of Tears 16-12
6.   Lines in the Sand defeats #16 Blind Faith 17-12
7.   #9 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence defeats #8 Finally Free 17-12
8.   #14 Home defeats Bridges in the Sky 18-10
9.   #3 A Change of Seasons defeats Illumination Theory 18-10
10.   Under a Glass Moon defeats Pull Me Under 18-10
11.   The Glass Prison defeats Beyond This Life 17-12
12.   #5 Scarred defeats In the Name of God 14-13
13.   The Mirror defeats Overture 1928 18-10
14.   Fatal Tragedy defeats #7 Stream of Consciousness 16-12
15.   #4 Space-Dye Vest  defeats Hell’s Kitchen 17-12
16.   #2 Octavarium defeats  #6 Learning to Live 18-11


Division 1 Rankings after Week 2 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 1 Tournament. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 2).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)

1.   Breaking All Illusions 2-0 (+34)
2.   Octavarium 2-0 (+24)
3.   A Change of Seasons 2-0 (+23)
4.   Metropolis 2-0 (+21)
5.   Space-Dye Vest 2-0 (+17)
6.   Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 2-0 (+11)
7.   Home 2-0 (+10)
8.   Scarred 2-0 (+10)
9.   The Count of Tuscany 2-0 (+6)
10.   The Glass Prison 1-0-1 (+5)
11.   The Spirit Carries On 1-0-1 (+4)
12.   Voices 1-0-1 (+2)
13.   The Mirror 1-1 (+6)
14.   Take the Time 1-1 (+6)
15.   Stream of Consciousness 1-1 (+4)
16.   Lines in the Sand  1-1 (+3)
17.   Finally Free 1-1 (+1)
18.   Learning to Live 1-1 (+1)
19.   Under a Glass Moon 1-1 (-4)
20.   Disappear 1-1 (-11)
21.   Fatal Tragedy 1-1 (-11)
22.   Blind Faith 0-1-1 (-5)
23.   In the Name of God 0-2 (-7)
24.   Bridges in the Sky 0-2 (-12)
25.   Illumination Theory 0-2 (-12)
26.   Trial of Tears 0-2 (-12)
27.   Beyond This Life 0-2 (-13)
28.   In the Presence of Enemies 0-2 (-16)
29.   Overture 1928  0-2 (-17)
30.   The Great Debate 0-2 (-19)
31.   Hell’s Kitchen 0-2 (-22)
32.   Pull Me Under 0-2 (-27)


Week 3 will start on Monday!

[erwinrafael]

I hope IT would gain some momentum next round, it has faced heavyweights so far. Maybe it's time for active campaigning for my 2nd fav DT song. 

[RoeDent]

I like the Vote Differential idea. Good thing to separate the songs with equal records.

BAI is in a commanding position already. 8VM has to beat its next opponent by 11 votes more than BAI beats its opponent by to reach the summit of Division 1. That's quite a mountain to climb.

[erwinrafael]

I like the Vote Differential idea. Good thing to separate the songs with equal records.

BAI is in a commanding position already. 8VM has to beat its next opponent by 11 votes more than BAI beats its opponent by to reach the summit of Division 1. That's quite a mountain to climb.

BAI has not faced off with a heavyweight yet, while Octavarium has faced DTF-favorite LtL. We have yet to see how BAI will fare against higher seeded competition.

[BlackInk]

Although I like 'Octavarium' more, 'Breaking All Illusions' is a fantastic song, I don't mind seeing it go this well for it.

[erwinrafael]

Although I like 'Octavarium' more, 'Breaking All Illusions' is a fantastic song, I don't mind seeing it go this well for it.

Breaking All Illusions is my favorite DT song, actually. It has everything I like in Dream Theater (epic feel, amazing lyrics, prog structure, purposive musicality that is not just showing off of chops, various smooth flowing transitions from one musical theme to another). It also showcased every member's individuality very producing a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts. I just wish it has FII-level production. Still, it's very much my top bet in this competition. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 3, Week 3 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43007.0

1.   The Silent Man defeats Along for the Ride 22-5
2.   To Live Forever & Only a Matter of Time draw 13-13
3.   The Answer Lies Within & Anna Lee draw 13-13
4.   The Killing Hand defeats Never Enough 16-11
5.   Hollow Years defeats Wither 16-11
6.   The Looking Glass defeats Enigma Machine 16-10
7.   Far From Heaven defeats A Rite of Passage 19-8
8.   Beneath the Surface defeats False Awakening Suite 15-11
9.   As I Am defeats Raise the Knife 17-11
10.   Honor Thy Father defeats Just Let Me Breathe 20-8
11.   New Millennium defeats Forsaken 15-12
12.   Ytse Jam defeats A Fortune in Lies 14-12
13.   I Walk Beside You defeats Eve 14-13
14.   Vacant defeats The Dark Eternal Night 17-10
15.   Constant Motion defeats Repentance 16-12
16.   The Shattered Fortress  defeats Lost Not Forgotten 15-13


Division 3 Rankings after Week 3 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 3 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 2. Red songs are on pace to be demoted out of the league).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   As I Am 3-0 (+31)
2.   The Silent Man 3-0 (+27)
3.   Honor Thy Father 3-0 (+25)
4.   The Shattered Fortress 3-0 (+16)
5.   The Looking Glass 3-0 (+9)
6.   I Walk Beside You 2-0-1(+10)
7.   Lost Not Forgotten 2-1 (+29)
8.   Hollow Years 2-1 (+14)
9.   Wither 2-1 (+14)
10.   The Killing Hand 2-1 (+10)
11.   Far From Heaven 2-1 (+8)
12.   False Awakening Suite 2-1 (+6)
13.   Vacant 2-1 (+6)
14.   Beneath the Surface 2-1 (+4)
15.   Ytse Jam 2-1 (+3)
16.   Raise the Knife 2-1 (+2)
17.   New Millennium 2-1 (-2)
18.   Along for the Ride 2-1 (-11)
19.   To Live Forever 1-1-1 (+8)
20.   Constant Motion 1-1-1 (+3)
21.   The Answer Lies Within 1-1-1 (0)
22.   A Fortune In Lies 1-2 (-11)
23.   Only a Matter of Time 0-2-1 (-17)
24.   Anna Lee 0-2-1 (-27)
25.   Enigma Machine 0-3 (-9)
26.   Eve 0-3 (-9)
27.   The Dark Eternal Night 0-3 (-13)
28.   Forsaken 0-3 (-13)
29.   Repentance 0-3 (-16)
30.   Never  Enough 0-3 (-17)
31.   A Rite of Passage 0-3 (-29)
32.   Just Let Me Breathe 0-3 (-51)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 2, Week 3 Results
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43018.0

1.   The Dance of Eternity defeats This Dying Soul 17-13
2.   The Enemy Inside defeats Innocence Faded 15-14
3.   Surrender to Reason defeats Wait For Sleep 16-13
4.   Strange déjà vu defeats This is the Life 22-7
5.   Lie defeats Erotomania 16-13
6.   Peruvian Skies defeats Behind the Veil 15-14
7.   Endless Sacrifice defeats Through Her Eyes 21-9
8.   Misunderstood defeats The Best of Times 26-4
9.   Surrounded defeats  On the Backs of Angels 21-8
10.   Caught in a Web defeats These Walls 15-14
11.   A Nightmare to Remember & One Last Time draw 15-15
12.   The Root of All Evil defeats Another Day 16-14
13.   6:00 defeats Panic Attack 17-12
14.   The Ministry of Lost Souls defeats Lifting Shadows off a Dream 16-13
15.   The Bigger Picture defeats Afterlife 22-7
16.   Outcry defeats Sacrificed Sons 16-13


Division 2 Rankings after Week 3 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 2 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 1. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 3).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   Misunderstood 3-0 (+47)
2.   Strange déjà vu 3-0 (+47)
3.   Surrounded 3-0 (+36)
4.   Endless Sacrifice 3-0 (+18)
5.   The Root of All Evil 3-0 (+12)
6.   The Ministry of Lost Souls 3-0 (+8)
7.   Lie 2-1 (+14)
8.   These Walls 2-1 (+13)
9.   The Bigger Picture 2-1 (+12)
10.   The Dance of Eternity 2-1 (+9)
11.   Caught in a Web 2-1 (+8)
12.   6:00 2-1 (+7)
13.   This Dying Soul 2-1 (+3)
14.   Surrender to Reason 2-1 (+3)
15.   Outcry 2-1 (+2)
16.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream 2-1 (0)
17.   Peruvian Skies 2-1 (-5)
18.   Panic Attack 1-2 (+2)
19.   Another Day 1-2 (+1)
20.   Erotomania 1-2 (0)
21.   Wait For Sleep 1-2 (-2)
22.   On the Backs of Angels 1-2 (-4)
23.   The Enemy Inside 1-2 (-12)
24.   This is the Life 1-2 (-12)
25.   A Nightmare to Remember 0-2-1 (-7)
26.   One Last Time 0-2-1 (-28)
27.   Sacrificed Sons 0-3 (-7)
28.   Innocence Faded 0-3 (-16)
29.   Behind the Veil 0-3 (-20)
30.   Through Her Eyes 0-3 (-37)
31.   Afterlife 0-3 (-41)
32.   The Best of Times 0-3 (-51)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 1, Week 3 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43022.0

1.   #6 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence defeats #13 The Mirror 16-7
2.   Finally Free defeats In the Presence of Enemies 15-8
3.   Blind Faith defeats #7 Home 12-11
4.   #3 A Change of Seasons defeats Trial of Tears 15-8
5.   #1 Breaking All Illusions defeats Under a Glass Moon 18-5
6.   #11 The Spirit Carries On defeats Beyond This Life 12-11
7.   #8 Scarred defeats #14 Take the Time 12-10
8.   #9 The Count of Tuscany defeats #5 Space-Dye Vest 15-9
9.   The Great Debate defeats #15 Stream of Consciousness 14-10
10.   Disappear defeats Hell’s Kitchen 15-9
11.   #16 Lines in the Sand defeats Fatal Tragedy 15-8
12.   #12 Voices defeats Overture 1928 18-5
13.   In the Name of God defeats Bridges in the Sky 15-8
14.   Illumination Theory defeats #10 The Glass Prison 14-9
15.   Learning to Live defeats Pull Me Under 20-3
16.   #2 Octavarium defeats #4  Metropolis 14-10


Division 1 Rankings after Week 3 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 1 Tournament. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 2).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)

1.   Breaking All Illusions 3-0 (+47)
2.   A Change of Seasons 3-0 (+30)
3.   Octavarium 3-0 (+28)
4.   Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 3-0 (+20)
5.   The Count of Tuscany 3-0 (+12)
6.   Scarred 3-0 (+12) 
7.   Voices 2-0-1 (+15)
8.   The Spirit Carries On 2-0-1 (+5)
9.   Learning to Live 2-1 (+18)
10.   Metropolis 2-1 (+17)
11.   Space-Dye Vest 2-1 (+11)
12.   Lines in the Sand  2-1 (+10)
13.   Home 2-1 (+9)
14.   Finally Free 2-1 (+8)
15.   Disappear 2-1 (-5)
16.   The Glass Prison 1-1-1 (0)
17.   Blind Faith 1-1-1 (-4)
18.   Take the Time 1-2 (+4) 
19.   In the Name of God 1-2 (0)
20.   Stream of Consciousness 1-2 (0)
21.   The Mirror 1-2 (-3)
22.   Illumination Theory 1-2 (-7)
23.   The Great Debate 1-2 (-15)
24.   Under a Glass Moon 1-2 (-17)
25.   Fatal Tragedy 1-2 (-18)
26.   Beyond This Life 0-3 (-14)
27.   Bridges in the Sky 0-3 (-19)
28.   Trial of Tears 0-3 (-19)
29.   In the Presence of Enemies 0-3 (-23)
30.   Hell’s Kitchen 0-3 (-28)
31.   Overture 1928  0-3 (-30)
32.   Pull Me Under 0-3 (-44)


Have a great weekend! We'll see you on Monday for the start of Week 4.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[erwinrafael]

How ironic would it be if Overture 1928 gets relegated to Division 2 and Strange Deja Vu gets promoted to Division 1. Personally, I never really listen to them separately, just like Through My Words and Fatal Tragedy.

[TheCountOfNYC]

How ironic would it be if Overture 1928 gets relegated to Division 2 and Strange Deja Vu gets promoted to Division 1. Personally, I never really listen to them separately, just like Through My Words and Fatal Tragedy.

I feel like the only song Overture 1928 has a shot at beating is Hell's Kitchen. Overture 1928 is a great song, but it can't compete against songs like A Change of Seasons or Metropolis.

[Dublagent66]

Good to see a strong top 10 line up.

[erwinrafael]

How ironic would it be if Overture 1928 gets relegated to Division 2 and Strange Deja Vu gets promoted to Division 1. Personally, I never really listen to them separately, just like Through My Words and Fatal Tragedy.

I feel like the only song Overture 1928 has a shot at beating is Hell's Kitchen. Overture 1928 is a great song, but it can't compete against songs like A Change of Seasons or Metropolis.

That's true. But if it is Overture 1928 + Strange DejaVu, it cam definitely beat half of the songs in Division 1.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

How ironic would it be if Overture 1928 gets relegated to Division 2 and Strange Deja Vu gets promoted to Division 1. Personally, I never really listen to them separately, just like Through My Words and Fatal Tragedy.

I feel like the only song Overture 1928 has a shot at beating is Hell's Kitchen. Overture 1928 is a great song, but it can't compete against songs like A Change of Seasons or Metropolis.

That's true. But if it is Overture 1928 + Strange DejaVu, it cam definitely beat half of the songs in Division 1.

Two songs against one. How fair would that be?

[CharlesPL]

I agree DoC.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree DoC.

[erwinrafael]

How ironic would it be if Overture 1928 gets relegated to Division 2 and Strange Deja Vu gets promoted to Division 1. Personally, I never really listen to them separately, just like Through My Words and Fatal Tragedy.

I feel like the only song Overture 1928 has a shot at beating is Hell's Kitchen. Overture 1928 is a great song, but it can't compete against songs like A Change of Seasons or Metropolis.

That's true. But if it is Overture 1928 + Strange DejaVu, it cam definitely beat half of the songs in Division 1.

Two songs against one. How fair would that be?

I would prefer to see it as a "song" with no proper ending (Overture 1928) against another song that has an ending and thus leaves one with a feeling of satisfaction because of the closure. That, IMO, is not a fair matchup. The same goes with Strange Deja Vu, which really feels weird listening to by its lonesome because it really does not have a proper beginning.

Of course it is your rules, Doc. Just chiming in my opinion. 

[hefdaddy42]

You could say that about lots of songs on lots of concept albums.  And in their original context, that would be correct.  But in this context, it is a contest of song against song, so each song has to stand and fall on its own merits.

[erwinrafael]

I guess I just thought that some songs are combined because I did not see Through My Words in the entries. I assumed that it was combined with Fatal Tragedy.

[hefdaddy42]

I guess I just thought that some songs are combined because I did not see Through My Words in the entries. I assumed that it was combined with Fatal Tragedy.

Nope.

[Fredo96993]

Trial of Tears and ITPOE in danger of relegation! The world should have imploded! Two of my fave songs of any group.
@PMUgoingtoberelegated
GET IN! It's cliché to think I&W is overrated but PMU and MPt1 should not dominate competitions like this. I really hope Met.Pt.1 gets relegated too!

[RoeDent]

It's cliché to think I&W is overrated but PMU and MPt1 should not dominate competitions like this. I really hope Met.Pt.1 gets relegated too!

Is it? I've never heard of that "cliché" before. From my experience, I&W is rated very highly by many people.

It's hard to see Metropolis getting relegated, even in this division format. It's an established Top 5 classic. One of the Immortals, as I call them.

Changing the subject slightly...Under the "all vs all" format, it's quite likely that all Div. 1 songs would end the regular season with winning records. However, as they're being pitted against songs on their level, as it were, some surprises could emerge.

Something else I've just thought about...it's quite possible that by the 2016 League, the new album will be out. Where will the new songs come into it?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

4. The Enemy Inside 7
4. Misunderstood 22

15. The Ministry of Lost Souls 15
15. A Nightmare to Remember 14

Total Members Voted: 28

 

Match 4 had a clear cut winner. But match 15..... damn.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

5.   In the Name of God defeats The Great Debate 19-15

Total Members Voted: 33

Man.... we might have to cancel this and go back to a simple Dream Theater Survivor.

[erwinrafael]

Don't cancel it, Doc. Let us just treat it as a controversial win with a blown call.

[hefdaddy42]

Don't cancel it, Doc. Let us just treat it as a controversial win with a blown call.

This

[RoeDent]

This is so frustrating. Newbies, PLEASE BE CAREFUL when voting here. Don't ruin this for us. For DT songs, I much prefer the League to a Survivor. Survivors highlight the negative too much. Least favourite this and least favourite that. At least with the league, we're mostly thinking about the songs we like.

[krands85]

Would it be worth having blank options in the poll between each match up? eg:
1. Learning to Live
1. Scarred
---Next Match below---
2. Metropolis
2. Fatal Tragedy
---Next Match below---
etc. etc.

Not sure what the max number of poll options is, but it might help separate things a little better for people's eyelines or something? Or maybe people just aren't reading the isntructions properly at all anyway  I wonder if the 'blank' options would get any votes 

[Dublagent66]

Don't cancel it, Doc. Let us just treat it as a controversial win with a blown call.

This

Disagree.  I don't see the point in continuing this way if we can't get accurate results.  This isn't a football game with multiple variables.  We're talking about voting for 1 song in each matchup.  It's that simple and the sum of the votes in each matchup should equal total members voted.

[BlackInk]

^ "Belay that. Let her run, straight and true."

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Don't cancel it, Doc. Let us just treat it as a controversial win with a blown call.

This

Okay.

This is so frustrating. Newbies, PLEASE BE CAREFUL when voting here. Don't ruin this for us. For DT songs, I much prefer the League to a Survivor. Survivors highlight the negative too much. Least favourite this and least favourite that. At least with the league, we're mostly thinking about the songs we like.

That's why I moved away from doing survivor..... least favorite city......

Would it be worth having blank options in the poll between each match up? eg:
1. Learning to Live
1. Scarred
---Next Match below---
2. Metropolis
2. Fatal Tragedy
---Next Match below---
etc. etc.

Not sure what the max number of poll options is, but it might help separate things a little better for people's eyelines or something? Or maybe people just aren't reading the isntructions properly at all anyway  I wonder if the 'blank' options would get any votes 

This is worth a shot. I'll try it next week. Thanks for the idea.

Don't cancel it, Doc. Let us just treat it as a controversial win with a blown call.

This

Disagree.  I don't see the point in continuing this way if we can't get accurate results.  This isn't a football game with multiple variables.  We're talking about voting for 1 song in each matchup.  It's that simple and the sum of the votes in each matchup should equal total members voted.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not going to let one or two people ruin the fun for everyone...if I can help it.

^ "Belay that. Let her run, straight and true."

Aye, what that pirate said.