DT the League 2015 - Results, Standings and Discussion Thread.

[fischermasamune]

How are the matches calculated? Is it like a swiss tournament?

I would imagine all of the necessary information is in the OP.

But regardless, it's basically an arbitrary thing, done for entertainment purposes.  And DoC does a hell of a job with this every year.

I checked the first post and couldn't find the information on how are the pairings done, and don't know how they are usually done in sports. This format for "DT the League" makes things exciting, and I'm a bit curious about it.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

How are the matches calculated? Is it like a swiss tournament?

I would imagine all of the necessary information is in the OP.

But regardless, it's basically an arbitrary thing, done for entertainment purposes.  And DoC does a hell of a job with this every year.

I checked the first post and couldn't find the information on how are the pairings done, and don't know how they are usually done in sports. This format for "DT the League" makes things exciting, and I'm a bit curious about it.

I use an online schedule maker to generate a round robin tournament, which for 32 songs is 31 rounds numbered 1-31. I then go to random.org to generate a random sequence of numbers 1-31 and take the top 20 numbers to determine which of the 31 rounds I use for the 20 week season. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 3, Week 9 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43243.0

1.   Raise the Knife defeats The Silent Man 15-11
2.   Beneath the Surface defeats Just Let Me Breathe 22-4
3.   Forsaken defeats A Rite of Passage 15-10
4.   Ytse Jam defeats Enigma Machine 16-8
5.   Hollow Years defeats Eve 16-10
6.   The Killing Hand & Vacant draw at 13-13
7.   Repentance defeats Anna Lee 14-13
8.   The Shattered Fortress defeats Only a Matter of Time 18-8
9.   Lost Not Forgotten defeats Along For the Ride 18-8
10.   Constant Motion defeats To Live Forever 17-9
11.   The Dark Eternal Night defeats The Answer Lies Within 14-12
12.   I Walk Beside You defeats Never Enough 15-11
13.   Wither defeats A Fortune in Lies 14-12
14.   The Looking Glass defeats New Millennium  15-12
15.   Far From Heaven defeats Honor Thy Father 16-10
16.   As I Am defeats False Awakening Suite 20-7


Division 3 Rankings after Week 9 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 3 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 2. Red songs are on pace to be demoted out of the league).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   As I Am 9-0 (+107) 
2.   The Shattered Fortress 9-0 (+71)
3.   Lost Not Forgotten 8-1 (+84)
4.   The Looking Glass 8-1 (+36)   
5.   Vacant 7-1-1 (+44)     
6.   The Killing Hand 7-1-1 (+37)
7.   Wither 7-2 (+53) 
8.   Hollow Years 7-2 (+48)   
9.   Honor Thy Father 6-1-2 (+47)
10.   Beneath the Surface 7-2 (+45)
11.   The Silent Man 6-2-1 (+46) 
12.   Ytse Jam 6-2-1 (+18)   
13.   Far From Heaven 6-3 (+13)
14.   I Walk Beside You 5-3-1 (-2)
15.   Raise the Knife 5-4 (+14) 
16.   New Millennium 5-4 (+3)
17.   Along for the Ride 5-4 (-18)   
18.   False Awakening Suite 4-5 (-21) 
19.   A Fortune In Lies 3-6 (-21)
20.   Forsaken 3-6 (-32)   
21.   Repentance 3-6 (-33) 
22.   To Live Forever 2-6-1 (-16)
23.   Constant Motion 2-6-1 (-31)   
24.   Eve 2-7 (-13)     
25.   The Dark Eternal Night 2-7 (-28)
26.   Never  Enough 2-7 (-36)
27.   The Answer Lies Within 1-7-1 (-41)
28.   Only a Matter of Time 1-7-1 (-57)
29.   Anna Lee 0-8-1 (-52)
30.   Enigma Machine 0-9 (-49)
31.   A Rite of Passage 0-9 (-91)
32.   Just Let Me Breathe 0-9 (-137)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 2, Week 9 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43249.0


1.   The Dance of Eternity defeats Wait For Sleep 18-11
2.   Strange déjà vu defeats Innocence Faded 21-8
3.   Lie defeats This Dying Soul 17-12
4.   Peruvian Skies defeats The Enemy Inside 19-10
5.   Surrender to Reason defeats Through Her Eyes 21-8
6.   This Is the Life defeats The Best of Times 20-9
7.   Surrounded defeats Erotomania 21-8
8.   Caught in a Web defeats Behind the Veil 15-14
9.   Endless Sacrifice defeats A Nightmare to Remember 17-13
10.   Misunderstood defeats Another Day 18-12
11.   On the Backs of Angels defeats Panic Attack 16-14
12.   The Bigger Picture defeats One Last Time 21-8
13.   The Root of All Evil defeats Outcry 17-13
14.   Sacrificed Sons defeats 6:00 16-13
15.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream defeats Afterlife 21-8
16.   The Ministry of Lost Souls defeats These Walls 17-12


Division 2 Rankings after Week 9 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 2 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 1. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 3).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   Surrounded 9-0 (+102)   
2.   Misunderstood 9-0 (+94)
3.   The Ministry of Lost Souls 9-0 (+24)
4.   Strange déjà vu 8-1 (+89)
5.   These Walls 7-2 (+50) 
6.   Endless Sacrifice 7-2 (+49)
7.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream 7-2 (+21)   
8.   The Bigger Picture 6-2-1 (+27)   
9.   The Dance of Eternity 6-2-1 (+24)
10.   Sacrificed Sons 6-3 (+54)     
11.   The Root of All Evil 6-3 (+35)   
12.   6:00 6-3 (+21)         
13.   Surrender to Reason 6-3 (+19)
14.   Caught in a Web 5-3-1 (+11)
15.   Another Day 5-4 (+15)
16.   Peruvian Skies 5-4 (+2)
17.   Erotomania 4-4-1 (+7)     
18.   Wait For Sleep 4-5 (+9)   
19.   This is the Life 4-5 (+1)   
20.   This Dying Soul 4-5 (-16) 
21.   On the Backs of Angels 4-5 (-25)
22.   Lie 3-6 (+3)           
23.   Panic Attack 3-6 (+3) 
24.   Outcry 3-6 (-29) 
25.   Innocence Faded 2-7 (-32)
26.   Behind the Veil 1-8 (-27) 
27.   The Enemy Inside 1-8 (-71)
28.   Through Her Eyes 1-8 (-94)
29.   A Nightmare to Remember 0-8-1 (-33)
30.   One Last Time 0-8-1 (-77)
31.   The Best of Times 0-9 (-121)
32.   Afterlife 0-9 (-125)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 1, Week 9 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43254.0

1.   #16 In the Name of God defeats Fatal Tragedy 19-14
2.   In the Presence of Enemies defeats The Mirror 18-15
3.   #14 Space-Dye Vest defeats The Glass Prison 17-16
4.   #9 Voices defeats #12 Finally Free 17-15
5.   #7 Learning to Live defeats Hell’s Kitchen 26-7
6.   Stream of Consciousness defeats Pull Me Under 18-15
7.   Illumination Theory defeats Overture 1928 20-13
8.   #1 Octavarium defeats #5 Lines in the Sand 25-8
9.   #4 Scarred defeats Bridges in the Sky 21-12
10.   #10 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence defeats Beyond This Life 24-9
11.   #13 The Count of Tuscany defeats Under a Glass Moon 20-13
12.   #2 A Change of Seasons defeats Disappear 25-8
13.   Home defeats The Great Debate 24-9
14.   #8 Take the Time defeats Blind Faith 21-12
15.   #15 The Spirit Carries On defeats  #11 Trial of Tears 17-16
16.   #3 Breaking All Illusions defeats #6 Metropolis 22-11


Division 1 Rankings after Week 9 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 1 Tournament. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 2).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)

1.   Octavarium 9-0 (+135) 
2.   A Change of Seasons 9-0 (+125)
3.   Breaking All Illusions 8-1 (+124)
4.   Scarred 8-1 (+57)     
5.   Learning to Live 7-2 (+73)   
6.   Take the Time 7-2 (+60)     
7.   Lines in the Sand  7-2 (+26)
8.   Metropolis 6-2-1 (+72)   
9.   Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 6-2-1 (+37)
10.   Voices 6-2-1 (+34)     
11.   The Count of Tuscany 6-3 (+18)
12.   Space-Dye Vest 6-3 (+5)   
13.   The Spirit Carries On 5-3-1 (-8) 
14.   Trial of Tears 5-4 (+26)     
15.   Home 5-4 (+14)     
16.   Finally Free 5-4 (+12)       
17.   In the Name of God 5-4 (+7)
18.   In the Presence of Enemies 5-4 (-10)
19.   The Glass Prison 3-4-2 (-7)   
20.   Illumination Theory 4-5 (-18)
21.   Fatal Tragedy 3-6 (-50)     
22.   Stream of Consciousness 3-6 (-59)
23.   The Mirror 2-6-1 (-13) 
24.   Blind Faith 2-6-1 (-52)   
25.   Under a Glass Moon 2-6-1 (-58)
26.   Disappear 2-7 (-50)   
27.   Beyond This Life 1-8 (-65)
28.   The Great Debate 1-8 (-73)
29.   Hell’s Kitchen 1-8 (-81)
30.   Bridges in the Sky 0-8-1 (-77)
31.   Overture 1928  0-9 (-85)
32.   Pull Me Under 0-9 (-115)

[RoeDent]

How are we nearly halfway through the regular season already?

[RoeDent]

Sorry for double-posting, but I just noticed Disappear's record hasn't been updated. It still says 2-6 (2 + 6 = 8, not 9). Or did I miss something?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Sorry for double-posting, but I just noticed Disappear's record hasn't been updated. It still says 2-6 (2 + 6 = 8, not 9). Or did I miss something?

Good catch. It has been fixed.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 3, Week 10 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43276.0

1.   Eve defeats The Silent Man 16-15
2.   Vacant defeats Ytse Jam 17-14
3.   Forsaken defeats Repentance 17-15
4.   The Shattered Fortress defeats Just Let Me Breathe 26-6
5.   Beneath the Surface defeats Constant Motion 18-13
6.   The Dark Eternal Night defeats A Rite of Passage 21-8
7.   I Walk Beside You defeats Enigma Machine 16-15
8.   Hollow Years defeats A Fortune in Lies 18-13
9.   New Millennium defeats The Killing Hand 16-15
10.   Honor Thy Father defeats Anna Lee 23-8
11.   As I Am defeats Only a Matter of Time 24-8
12.   Along for the Ride defeats False Awakening Suite 20-10
13.   To Live Forever defeats Far From Heaven 17-13
14.   The Looking Glass defeats The Answer Lies Within 22-10
15.   Wither defeats Never Enough 18-13
16.   Lost Not Forgotten defeats Raise the Knife 19-11


Division 3 Rankings after Week 10 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 3 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 2. Red songs are on pace to be demoted out of the league).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   As I Am 10-0 (+123) 
2.   The Shattered Fortress 10-0 (+91)
3.   Lost Not Forgotten 9-1 (+92)
4.   The Looking Glass 9-1 (+48)   
5.   Vacant 8-1-1 (+47)       
6.   Honor Thy Father 7-1-2 (+62)
7.   Wither 8-2 (+58) 
8.   Hollow Years 8-2 (+53)   
9.   Beneath the Surface 8-2 (+50)
10.   The Killing Hand 7-2-1 (+36)
11.   The Silent Man 6-3-1 (+45) 
12.   Ytse Jam 6-3-1 (+15)   
13.   I Walk Beside You 6-3-1 (-1) 
14.   Far From Heaven 6-4 (+9)
15.   New Millennium 6-4 (+4) 
16.   Along for the Ride 6-4 (-8)   
17.   Raise the Knife 5-5 (+6)   
18.   Forsaken 4-6 (-30)   
19.   False Awakening Suite 4-6 (-31) 
20.   To Live Forever 3-6-1 (-12) 
21.   Eve 3-7 (-12)       
22.   The Dark Eternal Night 3-7 (-15)
23.   A Fortune In Lies 3-7 (-26)
24.   Repentance 3-7 (-35) 
25.   Constant Motion 2-7-1 (-36)   
26.   Never  Enough 2-8 (-41)
27.   The Answer Lies Within 1-8-1 (-53)
28.   Only a Matter of Time 1-8-1 (-73)
29.   Anna Lee 0-9-1 (-67)
30.   Enigma Machine 0-10 (-50)
31.   A Rite of Passage 0-10 (-104)
32.   Just Let Me Breathe 0-10 (-157)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 2, Week 10 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43283.0


1.   Misunderstood defeats The Dance of Eternity 19-13
2.   Endless Sacrifice defeats On the Backs of Angels 20-12
3.   These Walls defeats Behind the Veil 17-13
4.   Erotomania defeats One Last Time 21-9
5.   The Root of All Evil defeats This is the Life 18-14
6.   6:00 defeats Surrender to Reason 16-15
7.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream defeats The Enemy Inside 22-9
8.   This Dying Soul defeats Afterlife 23-9
9.   Innocence Faded defeats Sacrificed Sons 16-15
10.   Wait For Sleep defeats Outcry 20-11
11.   The Ministry of Lost Souls defeats Lie 16-15
12.   Peruvian Skies defeats Panic Attack 18-14
13.   Another Day defeats Through Her Eyes 23-8
14.   A Nightmare to Remember defeats The Best of Times 21-10
15.   Surrounded defeats Caught in a Web 24-6
16.   Strange Déjà vu defeats The Bigger Picture 19-12


Division 2 Rankings after Week 10 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 2 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 1. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 3).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   Surrounded 10-0 (+120)   
2.   Misunderstood 10-0 (+100)
3.   The Ministry of Lost Souls 10-0 (+25)
4.   Strange déjà vu 9-1 (+96)
5.   Endless Sacrifice 8-2 (+57) 
6.   These Walls 8-2 (+54) 
7.   Lifting Shadows off a Dream 8-2 (+34)   
8.   The Root of All Evil 7-3 (+39)   
9.   6:00 7-3 (+22)         
10.   The Bigger Picture 6-3-1 (+20)   
11.   The Dance of Eternity 6-3-1 (+18)
12.   Sacrificed Sons 6-4 (+53)     
13.   Another Day 6-4 (+30) 
14.   Surrender to Reason 6-4 (+18)
15.   Peruvian Skies 6-4 (+6) 
16.   Erotomania 5-4-1 (+19)     
17.   Caught in a Web 5-4-1 (-7)
18.   Wait For Sleep 5-5 (+18)   
19.   This Dying Soul 5-5 (-2) 
20.   This is the Life 4-6 (-3)   
21.   On the Backs of Angels 4-6 (-33)
22.   Lie 3-7 (+2)           
23.   Panic Attack 3-7 (-1) 
24.   Innocence Faded 3-7 (-31)
25.   Outcry 3-7 (-38)   
26.   A Nightmare to Remember 1-8-1 (-22)
27.   Behind the Veil 1-9 (-31) 
28.   The Enemy Inside 1-9 (-84)
29.   Through Her Eyes 1-9 (-109)
30.   One Last Time 0-9-1 (-89)
31.   The Best of Times 0-10 (-132)
32.   Afterlife 0-10 (-139)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 1, Week 10 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43285.0

1.   #4 Scarred defests  Fatal Tragedy 17-14
2.   #10 Voices defeats In the Presence of Enemies 16-14
3.   #6 Take the Time defeats The Great Debate 22-10
4.   #8 Metropolis defeats  #11 The Count of Tuscany 23-8
5.   #13 The Spirit Carries On defeats Disappear 18-14
6.   #3 Breaking All Illusions defeats  #7 Lines in the Sand 24-6
7.   Blind Faith defeats  Bridges in the Sky 21-11
8.   #9 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence defeats #14 Trial of Tears 20-11
9.   #16 Finally Free defeats Illumination Theory 17-14
10.   #15 Home defeats Pull Me Under 27-4
11.   The Glass Prison defeats Under a Glass Moon 18-13
12.   #1 Octavarium defeats In the Name of God 22-10
13.   The Mirror defeats Beyond This Life 17-12
14.   #12 Space-Dye Vest defeats Overture 1928 18-13
15.   Stream of Consciousness defeats Hell’s Kitchen  17-14
16.   #2 A Change of Seasons defeats #5 Learning to Live 16-15


Division 1 Rankings after Week 10 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 1 Tournament. Red songs are on pace to be demoted to Division 2).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)

1.   Octavarium 10-0 (+147) 
2.   A Change of Seasons 10-0 (+126)
3.   Breaking All Illusions 9-1 (+142)
4.   Scarred 9-1 (+60)       
5.   Take the Time 8-2 (+72)     
6.   Metropolis 7-2-1 (+87)   
7.   Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 7-2-1 (+46)
8.   Voices 7-2-1 (+36)     
9.   Learning to Live 7-3 (+72)   
10.   Space-Dye Vest 7-3 (+10)   
11.   Lines in the Sand  7-3 (+8)
12.   The Spirit Carries On 6-3-1 (-4)   
13.   Home 6-4 (+37)       
14.   Finally Free 6-4 (+15)       
15.   The Count of Tuscany 6-4 (+3)
16.   Trial of Tears 5-5 (+17)     
17.   In the Name of God 5-5 (-5)
18.   The Glass Prison 4-4-2 (-2)   
19.   In the Presence of Enemies 5-5 (-12)
20.   Illumination Theory 4-6 (-21)
21.   Stream of Consciousness 4-6 (-56) 
22.   The Mirror 3-6-1 (-8)   
23.   Blind Faith 3-6-1 (-42)   
24.   Fatal Tragedy 3-7 (-53)     
25.   Under a Glass Moon 2-7-1 (-63)
26.   Disappear 2-8 (-54) 
27.   Beyond This Life 1-9 (-70)
28.   Hell’s Kitchen 1-9 (-84) 
29.   The Great Debate 1-9 (-85)
30.   Bridges in the Sky 0-9-1 (-87)
31.   Overture 1928  0-10 (-90)
32.   Pull Me Under 0-10 (-138)

[RoeDent]

The one problem with the division format that's emerging now we're some way into it is this: Songs that don't really deserve it are getting brutally punished. The Great Debate and Bridges in the Sky definitely do not deserve to be winless.

[BlackInk]

It surprised me to see that Bridges In the Sky doesn't have a single win too, hadn't noticed that before. But saying that it "doesn't deserve it" is a weird way to put it, and absolutely doesn't showcase a "problem with the division format". If it gets demoted to D2 next year, maybe it'll kick some more ass there, and maybe be promoted some time in the future. I don't agree with all the results, far from it, but it's all about what everyone votes collectively, and the results are fun to follow.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

In the context of all 96 songs.... it does hurt to see "very good" songs with terrible records in Division 1, while "good to average" songs have great records in Division 3. After the season, 48 songs will advance to one of the three Division Tournaments, but what could be argued as the 17th to 32nd best songs won't be a part of it. But it's all relative, and what we signed up for.

 After the season, we'll vote on which of the two formats we'd like to use in future years. But regardless of format, its safe to say that only 4-5 songs have a legitimate shot of winning it all under the previous format, or Division 1 in this format.

[RoeDent]

For the record, I'm not saying the divisions are a bad thing. Far from it. Victories are more meaningful as they're against fairly equal opposition.

[hefdaddy42]

It surprised me to see that Bridges In the Sky doesn't have a single win too, hadn't noticed that before. But saying that it "doesn't deserve it" is a weird way to put it, and absolutely doesn't showcase a "problem with the division format".

This.  It is what it is.  "Deserve" doesn't have anything to do with it.

[RoeDent]

I don't know what to write anymore. I'm just saying how *I* see things, but clearly I can't do that without a few people having a hissy fit over it. Treating what is merely my (worthless) opinion as if it's objective. The vast majority of what people write here is subjective opinion. I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And yes, I am aware that some people have thicker skin than me. I don't need to be told that.

[BlackInk]

I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And neiher should we.

[?]

I'm shocked TMOLS has won every match in the second division... I thought the song was not that well-liked (I personally consider it a huge mess).

[Evermind]

I'm shocked TMOLS has won every match in the second division... I thought the song was not that well-liked (I personally consider it a huge mess).

Yeah. While I love this song a lot, I thought it was quite polarizing here. Seeing it with 10-0 is indeed surprising.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know what to write anymore. I'm just saying how *I* see things, but clearly I can't do that without a few people having a hissy fit over it. Treating what is merely my (worthless) opinion as if it's objective. The vast majority of what people write here is subjective opinion. I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And yes, I am aware that some people have thicker skin than me. I don't need to be told that.

You started out stating what the problem with the format was.  You weren't just talking about which songs you like best.

[RoeDent]

I don't know what to write anymore. I'm just saying how *I* see things, but clearly I can't do that without a few people having a hissy fit over it. Treating what is merely my (worthless) opinion as if it's objective. The vast majority of what people write here is subjective opinion. I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And yes, I am aware that some people have thicker skin than me. I don't need to be told that.

You started out stating what the problem with the format was.  You weren't just talking about which songs you like best.

OK, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "problem", but I couldn't think of a better word at the time. The idea of great songs being 0-10 wasn't something I'd envisioned when the division format was first mooted.

[Dublagent66]

I'm shocked TMOLS has won every match in the second division... I thought the song was not that well-liked (I personally consider it a huge mess).

Yeah. While I love this song a lot, I thought it was quite polarizing here. Seeing it with 10-0 is indeed surprising.

Well, not really.  Last couple years it came in at #2 on SC and around the middle of the road overall.  Yeah, at first it was polarizing to most but has gained traction in the last few years.  Good to see.  I've always liked TMOLS quite a bit. 

[Evermind]

Well, #2 on SC isn't surprising at all. The fact it won again LSOAD, ANTR, WFS, TROAE, Peruvian Skies; those wins kind of surprised me. Actually, now that I look on TMOLS track record, it has a lot of wins by a really small margin of votes. Lots of 15-14 or 17-14 or that kind of stuff.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know what to write anymore. I'm just saying how *I* see things, but clearly I can't do that without a few people having a hissy fit over it. Treating what is merely my (worthless) opinion as if it's objective. The vast majority of what people write here is subjective opinion. I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And yes, I am aware that some people have thicker skin than me. I don't need to be told that.

You started out stating what the problem with the format was.  You weren't just talking about which songs you like best.

OK, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "problem", but I couldn't think of a better word at the time. The idea of great songs being 0-10 wasn't something I'd envisioned when the division format was first mooted.

It's just about matchups, and who is voting for which song in that particular matchup.

Just like in sports, which is how this competition is rooted.  A team could be considered great, and not lost a game all season.  But then they play this one team that maybe isn't seen as being so great, but they just happen to match up really well against the players on the great team.  So, the great team loses.

Not sure where I was going with that, but it sounded good in my head.

[BlackInk]

I would expect TMoLS to do well in D2, though I'm fairly certain it won't much of a contender in D1.

[Dublagent66]

Well yeah, because it's a middle of the road song like I said before.  It's edging out other middle of the road songs.  That doesn't surprise me.  If it was winning in division 1, then I'd be surprised.

[fischermasamune]

There is the Swiss system. Basically, the first round is random, but starting on the second round the strongest songs are paired with the strongest, and the weakest play the weakest (here strong/weak is according to the wins and losses they have). This way, we separate the songs with similar scores easier as they are forced to play relevant matches instead of beating up weakies or being beaten up by the top ones.

This system allows one to get a decent classification in log_2(n) rounds, rounded up (if there are n participants). In the case, it would be 5 rounds! I think it's a little too short, but it can be extended as we want (always taking care to never repeat the matches). Of course this is a suggestion for future tournaments, not this one.

People use it in thing like open tournaments of chess, for example. And Yu-Gi-Oh!.

For TMOLS, for example, it would be tested: if TMOLS getting such score because it is meeting only weak songs, in the Swiss system it would start being matched up against strongest opponents, allowing us to estimate its strenght against the songs of same performance and see what's the deal.

[hefdaddy42]

There is the Swiss system. Basically, the first round is random, but starting on the second round the strongest songs are paired with the strongest, and the weakest play the weakest (here strong/weak is according to the wins and losses they have). This way, we separate the songs with similar scores easier as they are forced to play relevant matches instead of beating up weakies or being beaten up by the top ones.

This system allows one to get a decent classification in log_2(n) rounds, rounded up (if there are n participants). In the case, it would be 5 rounds! I think it's a little too short, but it can be extended as we want (always taking care to never repeat the matches). Of course this is a suggestion for future tournaments, not this one.

People use it in thing like open tournaments of chess, for example. And Yu-Gi-Oh!.

For TMOLS, for example, it would be tested: if TMOLS getting such score because it is meeting only weak songs, in the Swiss system it would start being matched up against strongest opponents, allowing us to estimate its strenght against the songs of same performance and see what's the deal.

The songs are already grouped that way, that's why there are 3 Divisions, based on how they have performed in past competitions.

[fischermasamune]

The songs are already grouped that way, that's why there are 3 Divisions, based on how they have performed in past competitions.

I thought it was clear, but I was referring to each division individually. (After all, 32 is the only number whose logarithm in base 2 is 5.)

It would be undeserving to a song to get to 4th place if it hadn't played against the top 3. (Even with the Division Tournaments, songs can unfairly fall off the top 16 [or get into it] because the 20 rounds are randomly obtained.)

[erwinrafael]

Now that we're halfway through, I just want to say that I am happy that i participated this year. I found the competition very enjoyable. 

If I had my way, I would love for The Mirror, Illumination Theory, Peruvian Skies and Anna Lee to do much better. But that's the fun of this tournament, we get to see some sort of general forum opinion. I hope that there would be some way of promoting The League in the main forum, though. Only around 30 people regularly participate in DT the League, while we get almost a hundred votes in polls placed in the main forum.

[hefdaddy42]

The songs are already grouped that way, that's why there are 3 Divisions, based on how they have performed in past competitions.

I thought it was clear, but I was referring to each division individually. (After all, 32 is the only number whose logarithm in base 2 is 5.)

It would be undeserving to a song to get to 4th place if it hadn't played against the top 3. (Even with the Division Tournaments, songs can unfairly fall off the top 16 [or get into it] because the 20 rounds are randomly obtained.)

Regardless of your opinion of that, the format is what it is and won't be changed.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I don't know what to write anymore. I'm just saying how *I* see things, but clearly I can't do that without a few people having a hissy fit over it. Treating what is merely my (worthless) opinion as if it's objective. The vast majority of what people write here is subjective opinion. I shouldn't have to add "imo" to every single thing I post out of fear of people treating it objectively.

And yes, I am aware that some people have thicker skin than me. I don't need to be told that.

You started out stating what the problem with the format was.  You weren't just talking about which songs you like best.

OK, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "problem", but I couldn't think of a better word at the time. The idea of great songs being 0-10 wasn't something I'd envisioned when the division format was first mooted.

It's just about matchups, and who is voting for which song in that particular matchup.

Just like in sports, which is how this competition is rooted.  A team could be considered great, and not lost a game all season.  But then they play this one team that maybe isn't seen as being so great, but they just happen to match up really well against the players on the great team.  So, the great team loses.

Not sure where I was going with that, but it sounded good in my head.

What you said makes sense. To give a real life sports example, the infamous 2007 New England Patriots demolished their competition (only two games weren't blowouts) during the regular season on the way to a 16-0 record. They had similar results in the playoffs and entered the Super Bowl at 18-0. They met up with the New York Giants, a team that barely made the playoffs with a 10-6 regular season record. The Patriots were favored by 12 points, which is the third largest spread in Super Bowl history. Of course, the Giants won the game 17-14 because they matched up well against the Patriots and had a well put together game plan. Most people thought that the Giants had no business winning that game, but they did. In anything competition based, no result should be surprising this one included. We don't know what the general forum opinion is at the time so there's no way we can guess what song is going to win each round.

[fischermasamune]

Regardless of your opinion of that, the format is what it is and won't be changed.

Why not? For what I've read, it has changed from 2014 to 2015, so why can't the present format be challenged?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Division 3, Week 11 Results:
Voting Thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43304.0

1.   The Looking Glass defeats The Silent Man 19-11
2.   Far From Heaven & Wither draw at 15-15
3.   False Awakening Suite defeats  Never Enough 15-14
4.   As I Am defeats The Answer Lies Within 23-7
5.   Honor Thy Father defeats To Live Forever 19-11
6.   New Millennium defeats Along For the Ride 19-11
7.   A Fortune in Lies defeats Only a Matter of Time 19-9
8.   I Walk Beside You defeats Anna Lee 16-14
9.   The Dark Eternal Night & The Killing Hand draw at 14-14
10.   Hollow Years defeats Constant Motion 19-11
11.   Lost Not Forgotten defeats Enigma Machine 25-5
12.   The Shattered Fortress defeats A Rite of Passage 23-7
13.   Beneath the Surface defeats Repentance 19-11
14.   Vacant defeats Raise the Knife 16-14
15.   Eve defeats Just Let Me Breathe 20-9
16.   Ytse Jam defeats Forsaken 18-12


Division 3 Rankings after Week 11 (Top 16 at season's end make the Division 3 Tournament. Green songs are on pace to be promoted to Division 2. Red songs are on pace to be demoted out of the league).

Rank/Song Title/Wins – Losses (Vote Differential)
1.   As I Am 11-0 (+139) 
2.   The Shattered Fortress 11-0 (+107)
3.   Lost Not Forgotten 10-1 (+112)
4.   The Looking Glass 10-1 (+56)   
5.   Vacant 9-1-1 (+49)       
6.   Honor Thy Father 8-1-2 (+70)
7.   Hollow Years 9-2 (+61)   
8.   Beneath the Surface 9-2 (+58)
9.   Wither 8-2-1 (+58) 
10.   The Killing Hand 7-2-2 (+36)
11.   Ytse Jam 7-3-1 (+21)     
12.   I Walk Beside You 7-3-1 (+1) 
13.   New Millennium 7-4 (+12)   
14.   The Silent Man 6-4-1 (+37) 
15.   Far From Heaven 6-4-1 (+9)
16.   Along for the Ride 6-5 (-16)   
17.   Raise the Knife 5-6 (+4)   
18.   False Awakening Suite 5-6 (-30) 
19.   Eve 4-7 (-1)         
20.   A Fortune In Lies 4-7 (-16)
21.   Forsaken 4-7 (-36)   
22.   The Dark Eternal Night 3-7-1 (-15)
23.   To Live Forever 3-7-1 (-20)   
24.   Repentance 3-8 (-43) 
25.   Constant Motion 2-8-1 (-44)   
26.   Never  Enough 2-9 (-42)
27.   The Answer Lies Within 1-9-1 (-69)
28.   Only a Matter of Time 1-9-1 (-83)
29.   Anna Lee 0-10-1 (-69)
30.   Enigma Machine 0-11 (-70)
31.   A Rite of Passage 0-11 (-120)
32.   Just Let Me Breathe 0-11 (-168)