The end of the iPod Classic

[TAC]

So what would an alternative be now?

[rumborak]

Yeah, I think you guys are a bit of a dying breed. I for one have all my music on Google Music, and I only pin a few albums here and there. Otherwise I just listen to it straight from their server.

[ariich]

So what would an alternative be now?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-X5-MP3-Player-DAC-Black/dp/B00I4Q9S32

Apparently a very good option. Takes two 128GB SD cards, and plays HD audio like FLAC as well as MP3.

EDIT: That's the X5. The X3 is cheaper I think but only takes one 128GB card.

[TAC]

So what would an alternative be now?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-X5-MP3-Player-DAC-Black/dp/B00I4Q9S32

Apparently a very good option. Takes two 128GB SD cards, and plays HD audio like FLAC as well as MP3.

EDIT: That's the X5. The X3 is cheaper I think but only takes one 128GB card.

Oh that's perfect. $350. Holds 256G. Nice, thank you.

Yeah, I think you guys are a bit of a dying breed. I for one have all my music on Google Music, and I only pin a few albums here and there. Otherwise I just listen to it straight from their server.

I don't even know what Google Music is. I use my iPod all the time. I never listen to music on my computer. I don't have that kind of time.

[rumborak]

I don't even know what Google Music is.

o_O?

Google lets you store 20k songs on their servers, for free. From there you can listen to it from your browser or Android device (and probably also iPhone), and for offline use you can "pin" albums on your device.
Note also that they don't recode your files. They have a maximum of 300MB per song allowed, but that's it.

[Fluffy Lothario]

How do you folks remember what you paid for things five or ten years ago? I went clothes shopping two weekends ago, and I can barely remember what most of the shit cost me. 

I had an 80G. It tanked about a year ago. Stopped holding a charge. I tended to use my Touch more often anyway, which is only 32G. I do have to be a bit more selective about what's on there, but I generally have most of what I've been listening to lately, plus some favourites, and it's enough.

Why do all the companies refuse to make large-capacity mp3 players?

I think the new idea is to stream music, although I personally love having my entire music collection on me at all times. I helps me rediscover things all the time when I shuffle.

I feel like there was a phase when mp3s / mp3 players first hit, and people realised you could have shit-tons of music on one device, that it became an in thing to just hoard everything you liked, but that that has passed, and, especially because everything's on the net and every device under the sun has internet access now, most people don't really give a shit anymore. I feel like musicheads like us who devotedly maintain a music collection are kind of in the minority, especially amongst under 25s these days. The large majority of people have no need for a huge mp3 player.

[rumborak]

I'm a music head. I just don't mind that my music is only accessible through the internet.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I've never even lived in a place where the internet could even be relied on to that extent. What do you do when you lose your connection?

[Fluffy Lothario]

I'm a music head. I just don't mind that my music is only accessible through the internet.

Well, there you go, there's another option.

[rumborak]

I would say 95% of the time I know beforehand that I will lose internet connection. Those would be camping trips and airplane rides. That's when I pin albums on my device beforehand. It's actually a fun to choose beforehand which albums you want to listen to.

[Dr. DTVT]

Or not have a connection?  The great thing about the iPod is that I am not tethered to the internet.  I can use it driving, in a store, when I travel, when I walk.  I'm used to having all my options available to me all the time and I don't want to sacrifice any of my music listening freedom.  I realize that people at DTF take their music more seriously than most people, but it still shocks me that there isn't more demand for iPod like devices.  I don't like the phone idea because A) I have more music than my phone's memory, B) I have a ton of apps on my phone that take up that memory, further reducing the space available to music and C) Change is scary and I don't want to change if I don't deem it necessary, and I don't think planned obsolescence is necessary or even good.  American car makers tried it because they thought that having people buy cars every 6 years would make them more money.  What did people do when they realized that their car American car was a money pit once it hit 100,000 miles?  They bought Japanese cars, and the American auto makers are still trying to recover from that miscalculation.

[Orbert]

What about in the car?  Some of my friends have satellite radio, and my car audio supports it, but you pay a monthly fee for that, and I won't pay a monthly fee for music.  At some point, total amount paid will exceed the flat cost of a device, and that doesn't even include the fact that it's far less convenient.  I can't take it to the gym, or listen at home through my stereo, or any of that.

In other words, I'm still not seeing anything nearly as convenient as actually having your music stored on a mobile device you can take with you.

[Dr. DTVT]

In other words, I'm still not seeing anything nearly as convenient as actually having your music stored on a mobile device you can take with you.

This.

[rumborak]

It's all about the operating point.
I mean, you could also say "I always have a gallon of water with me. What if there's no water where I go?". But of course it's absurd, because the infrastructure is such that you can expect water to be available almost everywhere.
In my experience, I am barely ever without internet connectivity at this point. So, to me the operating point has shifted enough that I don't need to lug that gallon of music with me at all times. I can expect to get it wherever I go.
And to me, carrying yet another device that needs to be charged regularly is a clear disadvantage.

[Orbert]

I'll grant you that Internet can be about as ubiquitous as water, provided you're willing to pay for it.  My wife and now both my kids have smart phones, so they basically always have Internet, but that costs them each thirty bucks a month "data service fee" or whatever it's called.  I won't pay that.  Satellite has the issues I already outlined.  And there's still the bandwidth issue and data quality issue, which are actually probably related now that I think of it.  Can you stream CD-quality over a smart phone?  Or at least the quality of an mp3 @256k?  If that's common these days, then it solves part of the issue.  But the "pay to play" still bugs me and is, for now, a show-stopper.

[ariich]

Streaming over the internet is such a drain on battery, and as others have said, you have to pay for these streaming services anyway.

And mobile internet quality is incredibly unreliable.

I'm not saying that the Spotify/GoogleMusic/whatever approach doesn't suit a lot of people, clearly it does, but I think there are still a lot of people who want a proper mp3 player as well that doesn't cost a shitload of money. As long as some other companies take up the mantle and keep creating these then I couldn't care less whether Apple exits the market.

Apple's operating model is basically built on guaranteed obsolescence (this applies to some of the other big tech companies as well). They're so highly profitable because people only own their iPhone or iPad for a year or two before they get the next one, either because its cool or more commonly because their one just isn't working very well anymore. The iPod Classic just didn't fit with that model - it was basically too good at doing what people needed it to do that they would buy one and then use it for YEARS. And they couldn't bring out new models because there was nothing else we needed it to do. I know so many people who own an iPod Classic, but sales have been low because they actually last a long time.

Very disappointing. But I'm confident that there's still a market for these devices and so hopefully they will continue to be made.

[Bolsters]

FiiO are already working on an X7, I'm waiting to see what that turns out to be.

[XJDenton]

The last dedicated music play I bought was a minidisc player. While I don't think large capacity players will ever die out, they are becoming a niche market. For far too many people their phone is now their music player.

[TAC]

Streaming over the internet is such a drain on battery, and as others have said, you have to pay for these streaming services anyway.

And mobile internet quality is incredibly unreliable.

I'm not saying that the Spotify/GoogleMusic/whatever approach doesn't suit a lot of people, clearly it does, but I think there are still a lot of people who want a proper mp3 player as well that doesn't cost a shitload of money. As long as some other companies take up the mantle and keep creating these then I couldn't care less whether Apple exits the market.

Apple's operating model is basically built on guaranteed obsolescence (this applies to some of the other big tech companies as well). They're so highly profitable because people only own their iPhone or iPad for a year or two before they get the next one, either because its cool or more commonly because their one just isn't working very well anymore. The iPod Classic just didn't fit with that model - it was basically too good at doing what people needed it to do that they would buy one and then use it for YEARS. And they couldn't bring out new models because there was nothing else we needed it to do. I know so many people who own an iPod Classic, but sales have been low because they actually last a long time.

Very disappointing. But I'm confident that there's still a market for these devices and so hopefully they will continue to be made.

That's interesting.

I LOVE my iPod Classic. basically have most of my albums and a ton of bootlegs on it, all at my fingertips. Between work and family, I don't have a ton of time to spend messing with my computer, nor do I ever sit at my computer to listen to music. Also, I cannot store all of that music on my computer or iTunes as it takes up way too much space.

I use my iPod for things like cutting the grass, laying in bed, on long trips etc.. A lot of times discussions will arise here on DTF comparing things even at certain timestamps, and I can easily bust out my iPod to check it out.

[Bolsters]

It's true they built the Classics to last. I'm on my second one but my first lasted eight years.

[rumborak]

The thing for me is also, I use my phone for podcast listening. It pulls the latest podcasts automatically, something the iPod only can do with explicit synching.

[TAC]

I have never listened to a podcast!

[rumborak]

Then you are missing out. Some of the highest quality stuff is happening through podcasts. Radiolab, This American Life, Planet Money etc. I also subscribe to Nature and Science podcasts. I have completely stopped watching TV because in terms of quality the podcasts are in a different league. I think the inability to dazzle the audience with visuals forces people to do better reporting.

[TAC]

Then you are missing out. Some of the highest quality stuff is happening through podcasts. Radiolab, This American Life, Planet Money etc. I also subscribe to Nature and Science podcasts. I have completely stopped watching TV because in terms of quality the podcasts are in a different league. I think the inability to dazzle the audience with visuals forces people to do better reporting.

I don't doubt it.  I guess I just don't have the time.  Once we get the kids down after dinner/homework, it can be close to 9:00pm.
I wouldn't even know where to go to sign up for a podcast.

[Orbert]

Apple's operating model is basically built on guaranteed obsolescence (this applies to some of the other big tech companies as well). They're so highly profitable because people only own their iPhone or iPad for a year or two before they get the next one, either because its cool or more commonly because their one just isn't working very well anymore. The iPod Classic just didn't fit with that model - it was basically too good at doing what people needed it to do that they would buy one and then use it for YEARS. And they couldn't bring out new models because there was nothing else we needed it to do. I know so many people who own an iPod Classic, but sales have been low because they actually last a long time.

I was just saying this to my wife yesterday.  We both got iPods in 2007 (my first, her second) and they're both still going.  Hers is getting glitchy, but that's because she treats it like hell.  I'm surprised it's lasted this long, but those suckers are really well made.  And yep, that is ultimately their downfall.  They do what they do very well, they last a long time, and therefore Apple can't sell enough of them because once you buy one, you're set for years.  You don't have to replace the thing every year or two unless you want a bigger one, but I started with the top model and there's nowhere to go.  So I've bought exactly one Apple product in the last 20 years.

[jjrock88]

I have two IPod classics and love them. For the amount of music storage, it's just the best thing for me.

So is the iPod touch 64gb the next best option overall right now? That's a fairly big downgrade in storage but I'm assuming I would have to stick with an apple product to have it sync with my iTunes

[Orbert]

The 64GB Touch is the next best Apple option.  There are better options in terms of storage capacity, if iTunes isn't a big issue.

I plan to look into a FiiO when my iPod Classic finally kicks.

[TAC]

Yeah, so do I. I only use iTunes as a vehicle to load my iPod. I could never store that much music on my computer.

[Orbert]

Why not?  Hard drives are really cheap these days.  My hard drive at work is 3 TB and cost $100.

I only use iTunes to load tunes on my iPod, but all the tunes themselves are on the hard drive anyway.  I haven't checked recently, but if I had to guess, I've probably got half a TB, way more than will fit on any player.

[TAC]

Why not?  Hard drives are really cheap these days.  My hard drive at work is 3 TB and cost $100.

I only use iTunes to load tunes on my iPod, but all the tunes themselves are on the hard drive anyway.  I haven't checked recently, but if I had to guess, I've probably got half a TB, way more than will fit on any player.

Oh I have an external hard drive. Usually, I rip the CD to iTunes. Load my iPod, and then drag to my hard drive, then I delete it out of iTunes and off my computer.

[Orbert]

Ah, got it.  One of my greater fears is lost work (or lost time, which is basically the same thing), such as having to re-rip everything and re-tag everything if something happens to my iPod.

I made the decision long ago to always back up my iPod and got SharePod (freeware) to do just that.  It "decodes" the filing encryption of your iPod and copies the contents, or just selected songs/albums/genres, to your hard drive.  Everything copies, including album art and all tags, and you can organize the results any way you want.  In my case, that's folder levels for genres, artists, albums, and songs within the folder.  Folder name for the album includes year of release as a "prefix" (so they appear in chronological order), and filenames for songs include track number.

If that sounds like a lot of work, it's not.  It takes two minutes to set up the application, then every time I put new tunes on my iPod, I back them up and everything is done automatically.  I can now remove songs, albums, artists, or entire genres from my iPod, or load them back on just as easily, and again, all tags and album art are preserved.

Someday, I'll have some other mp3 player and I'll drag and drop to load/unload tunes.  That'll be nice.  But even then, having everything organized is the key.  Yeah, I'm pretty anal, but the amount of time saved has already far outweighed the initial investment in setup time, by several hundredfold I'm sure.  And this is music we're talking about.