Author Topic: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.  (Read 371628 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4060 on: January 01, 2021, 09:35:57 AM »
It's a nice cover, with the added bonus of aggravating the fans who are still crying themselves to sleep every night because he has the nerve to make new music that isn't prog.   :biggrin: :biggrin:

Offline Zantera

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4061 on: January 01, 2021, 09:38:51 AM »
As someone who has zero interest in Taylor Swift (then again as a 29 y/o man i'm hardly the target audience anyways) I don't get why people get so upset over things like this. An artist covering another artist is interesting to me not because of who they cover but how they do it. If SW wants to do a Jay-Z cover next, that's cool. Let's see what he does. Not being familiar with the original Taylor Swift song, I can't say if this is better or worse than the original but just judging it on its own it's like a B-tier SW song but it's not bad. It's alright.

Online nobloodyname

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4062 on: January 01, 2021, 10:19:37 AM »
As someone who has zero interest in Taylor Swift (then again as a 29 y/o man i'm hardly the target audience anyways)

Well, I'm 47 and couldn't care less what her perceived target audience is. If I like the music, I like the music.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4063 on: January 01, 2021, 12:10:36 PM »
It seems to me that Taylor Swift now is so big that she doesn't have to worry about a target audience, otherwise I doubt she would have done the two 2020 albums that she did.

But let's face it, SW has always covered a wide range of styles, like in his cover series back in the 00's where he covered (among others) The Cure, Prince, Alanis Morissette and ABBA (among others), so I wasn't really surprised at all when I saw this yesterday about him covering a Taylor Swift song. 

Online nobloodyname

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4064 on: January 02, 2021, 12:30:51 AM »
Agreed. As it relates to Taylor Swift, the concept of a target audience is outdated.

Substantial parts of both Folklore and Evermore sound like they could have been written by Steven. Right in his wheelhouse.

I just don't understand why people lose their shit over this kind of thing. I mean, this is a chap who's repeatedly said he doesn't belong conform to one specific genre and his career-long body of work confirms that is indeed the case.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 02:01:23 AM by nobloodyname »
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4065 on: January 02, 2021, 12:51:01 AM »
I think it's an ego thing, really. A big part of the prog aesthetic is being "more advanced" than the norm, so some (emphasis on SOME) fans of the genre tend to interpret that as the genre being objectively better, & by extension, them being smarter for enjoying it. When something shatters that (like a prog artist paying tribute to a pop one), I think there's some cognitive dissonance at play there, which combined with the ego element of it, makes for a very emotional response.

That's not a justification btw, but it is kind of a sad reality (if I'm correct in assuming that's what's happening). :-\
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Offline Xanthul

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4066 on: January 02, 2021, 03:19:50 AM »
I think it's an ego thing, really. A big part of the prog aesthetic is being "more advanced" than the norm, so some (emphasis on SOME) fans of the genre tend to interpret that as the genre being objectively better, & by extension, them being smarter for enjoying it. When something shatters that (like a prog artist paying tribute to a pop one), I think there's some cognitive dissonance at play there, which combined with the ego element of it, makes for a very emotional response.

That's not a justification btw, but it is kind of a sad reality (if I'm correct in assuming that's what's happening). :-\

It does indeed happen. I've read some astounding mental gimnastics on certain forums from prog fans trying to justify why they love a pop/rock artist by saying they have prog elements in their music.

EDIT: maybe it's not clear from my post, I'm not saying it's necessary to justify yourself, quite the opposite. Just enjoy whatever you like, if someone is critizicing your taste and acting superior because of it they're probably a huge asshole to begin with. Normal people generally just don't care what you like or why you like it, don't waste your time trying to adhere to a perceived "norm".

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4067 on: January 02, 2021, 03:38:28 AM »
I think it's an ego thing, really. A big part of the prog aesthetic is being "more advanced" than the norm, so some (emphasis on SOME) fans of the genre tend to interpret that as the genre being objectively better, & by extension, them being smarter for enjoying it. When something shatters that (like a prog artist paying tribute to a pop one), I think there's some cognitive dissonance at play there, which combined with the ego element of it, makes for a very emotional response.

That's not a justification btw, but it is kind of a sad reality (if I'm correct in assuming that's what's happening). :-\

This is absolutely at play and the same thing happens with metal fans when a metal band throws in something unexpected.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4068 on: January 02, 2021, 09:10:04 AM »
I think it's an ego thing, really. A big part of the prog aesthetic is being "more advanced" than the norm, so some (emphasis on SOME) fans of the genre tend to interpret that as the genre being objectively better, & by extension, them being smarter for enjoying it. When something shatters that (like a prog artist paying tribute to a pop one), I think there's some cognitive dissonance at play there, which combined with the ego element of it, makes for a very emotional response.

That's not a justification btw, but it is kind of a sad reality (if I'm correct in assuming that's what's happening). :-\

This is absolutely at play and the same thing happens with metal fans when a metal band throws in something unexpected.

Don't get me started on "Pussy" songs. Or the "chick" songs.  :lol

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4069 on: January 02, 2021, 09:20:09 AM »
I think it's an ego thing, really. A big part of the prog aesthetic is being "more advanced" than the norm, so some (emphasis on SOME) fans of the genre tend to interpret that as the genre being objectively better, & by extension, them being smarter for enjoying it. When something shatters that (like a prog artist paying tribute to a pop one), I think there's some cognitive dissonance at play there, which combined with the ego element of it, makes for a very emotional response.

That's not a justification btw, but it is kind of a sad reality (if I'm correct in assuming that's what's happening). :-\

Regrettably, I used to have that prog snob mentality (thank goodness I grew out of it a long time ago), so I agree with this take. 

Offline Orbert

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4070 on: January 02, 2021, 10:14:50 AM »
We had the radio on the other day :omg: while playing board games with the kids and some song comes on, kinda catchy, whatever, I'm not really paying much attention, and my wife says "You can change it if you want".  It hadn't occurred to me to change the station, so I asked her why.  It was a Taylor Swift song, and she assumed I hated Taylor Swift, so it was okay with her if I changed the station.

I don't hate Taylor Swift.  Actually, I think she's cute, but she wears way too much makeup.  But as far as her music goes, I wouldn't recognize it from any of a thousand other pop singers.  Mrs. Orbert just assumed that I don't like "that kind of music".  What is that, reverse prog snobbery?  Assuming someone doesn't like something because it's not prog?  Pop music isn't my bag, but it's not like I hear the first two chords and reach for the remote.  If I recognize the song and know it's something I don't like, sure, I'll switch to something else, but honestly I've never really listened to most popular artists, so I have no real opinion of any of them.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4071 on: January 02, 2021, 02:26:46 PM »
We had the radio on the other day :omg: while playing board games with the kids and some song comes on, kinda catchy, whatever, I'm not really paying much attention, and my wife says "You can change it if you want".  It hadn't occurred to me to change the station, so I asked her why.  It was a Taylor Swift song, and she assumed I hated Taylor Swift, so it was okay with her if I changed the station.

I don't hate Taylor Swift.  Actually, I think she's cute, but she wears way too much makeup.  But as far as her music goes, I wouldn't recognize it from any of a thousand other pop singers.  Mrs. Orbert just assumed that I don't like "that kind of music".  What is that, reverse prog snobbery?  Assuming someone doesn't like something because it's not prog?  Pop music isn't my bag, but it's not like I hear the first two chords and reach for the remote.  If I recognize the song and know it's something I don't like, sure, I'll switch to something else, but honestly I've never really listened to most popular artists, so I have no real opinion of any of them.

I hear ya, but you have never struck me as someone who would dismiss non-prog on site.

It's funny because a friend (whom I have known for 30+ years now) was totally perplexed when I told him that I had discovered that Taylor Swift had some good music and jokingly asked, "What, are you listening to her because she's hot?"  And I was like, "She's hot?"  Sorry, but that "I am wearing tons of makeup" look to me is quite unappealing.  I will take the more natural look.  Taylor is kinda cute, but I would never listen to someone's music solely because she's cute/hot, otherwise I would have been blasting Britney Spears from the rooftops back in the early 00's. :lol :lol

Offline Orbert

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4072 on: January 02, 2021, 05:01:08 PM »
Ever since the advent of music videos, looks have been important, and have continued to become more important.  Not the only factor, often not the most important, but it's in there somewhere.  Countless people out there can sing or write a song; all else being equal, the one with the looks is gonna beat out the one without.  I don't know how much it affects things, but it has to somehow.  So it's no surprise that most pop singers are hot.  My daughter and I were just talking about this this afternoon, and she completely agrees.  No question that looks help.  Way back in the 80's, Frank Zappa spoke against the very concept of music videos because it will lead to "music that looks good, not necessarily music that sounds good" (or something very close to that).  He also admitted that they were the future and were here to stay, and eventually he embraced music video as a medium, but as a purist, he was most definitely against it and what it meant for the music industry.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4073 on: January 02, 2021, 08:09:46 PM »
Fair points by Mr. Zappa, but you have to adjust with the times.  The 80's were loaded with artists who made their bones in the 70's (or even the 60's) and continued to flourish due to making good, memorable videos - Billy Joel, Yes, Genesis, ZZ Top, Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, etc. The list goes on and on.  Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Debatable for sure, but if the last 20-30 years as told us anything, it's that the music industry is ever-changing.  In a perfect, pure world, the music would be all that matters, but it is rarely that simple anymore.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4074 on: January 21, 2021, 07:06:35 PM »
The Future Bites is out in a little over a week!!! :coolio :coolio

Online nobloodyname

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4075 on: January 21, 2021, 11:22:43 PM »
It's sure been a long time coming. Truth be told, I can't even remember what editions I ordered. Aside from the SUPER DELUXE EDITION BOX SET :lol
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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4076 on: January 22, 2021, 05:23:07 AM »
Apparently I will still get that limited tour edition vinyl. I got refunded the tickets, but not the entire amount. After an email toward customer service I was told another company (the label?) will send that edition to me. But I haven't seen any info on it on the internet regarding this edition.

(when ordering the tickets, you got the option to preorder this special vinyl edition, which could be picked up during the concert).

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4077 on: January 22, 2021, 06:16:37 AM »
The Future Bites is out in a little over a week!!! :coolio :coolio

I had all but forgotten that I already ordered this thing back in early 2020.  :D
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4078 on: January 22, 2021, 03:43:42 PM »
While I find this format very odd, SW is interviewed by two guys at the prog report and they all give their top 5 audiophile albums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHABfwrVwc


Without spoiling too much, I find it funny that Steven was totally unfamiliar with Devin Townsend and his music (and I am huge fan of both!), and even funnier that he just sat there and didn't say a word while one of the hosts sat there and gushed over Transatlantic, a band SW criticized in the early 00's for being too much of a homage to classic prog, or something to that effect (slight paraphrasing on my part).

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4079 on: January 22, 2021, 04:49:45 PM »
While I find this format very odd, SW is interviewed by two guys at the prog report and they all give their top 5 audiophile albums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHABfwrVwc


Without spoiling too much, I find it funny that Steven was totally unfamiliar with Devin Townsend and his music (and I am huge fan of both!), and even funnier that he just sat there and didn't say a word while one of the hosts sat there and gushed over Transatlantic, a band SW criticized in the early 00's for being too much of a homage to classic prog, or something to that effect (slight paraphrasing on my part).

Doesn't surprise me...

Steven doesn't seem to be interested in listening to Metal or that style of music much.

Just because a musician makes a certain style or makes music at all, does not mean they are familiar with another artists work. Although, what the musician listens to can affect the output of said musicians music. I look at Polyphia and Chon, and how they are incorporating R&B, and Rap style beats into their guitar playing music, and it's a cool blend. Also, Post Malone doing rap, and listening to Metal, and playing Cliffs of Dover live as well. That's all, what a musician listens to affecting their own musical output.
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Offline faizoff

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4080 on: January 24, 2021, 09:47:27 AM »
Got an email from Amazon that my blu-ray will arrive on Tuesday Feb 2nd.

I'll wait to listen to the album when the blu-ray comes.
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Offline pfillion

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4081 on: January 25, 2021, 12:00:58 PM »
http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/steven_wilson_on_the_future_bites

In recent years it seems fair to say that your interest in electric guitar has waxed and waned—much like the attitude toward guitar in Western culture. Last year, Rolling Stone magazine published an article with the headline “Is the Guitar Solo Finished?” On this new album the guitar has a more textural approach. But there are guitar solos on “Eminent Sleaze” and “Follower.” Tell me about your non-traditional approach to those guitar breaks.

I am a bit bored of the guitar right now. But I think there’s a broader thing here, which is we live in the electronic world now. All the sound we hear on a daily basis around us is electronic. My kids, they don’t hear guitars unless they actually go and specifically listen to a guitar song. Everything around them from the sounds that their iPad makes, to the sound coming from the TV, to the doorbell chimes. What place does the guitar or the bass or the drums have in the world like that? Well, increasingly less and less. I like the idea that music continues to evolve and continues to upset old people like me because it’s gone in a direction that is not as familiar to us.

I think the golden era of rock and roll music, rock music, classic rock music that prevailed for about 50 years—from the 1950s through to the end of the 20th century—is going the same way that jazz music went. Because jazz music was the popular mainstream music of the first half of the 20th century. And classic rock and rock music was the popular mainstream music of the second half of the 20th century.

I believe the music of the first half of the 21st century ultimately is going to come down to the sound of urban music, electronic music, R&B music—or at least music that has a strong electronic element to it.

I’ve increasingly felt myself bored by guitar. I feel like I’ve kind of exhausted the possibilities, at least that I’m capable of exploring, on that instrument. And when a band like Greta Van Fleet is the best that the new wave of rock bands has to offer, you know it’s dead. And I say that with the caveat that I’m sure there is some really great guitar music out there. But my point is this: It’s not in the mainstream.

So, I think Rolling Stone is absolutely right, music moves on, it evolves. And that means that the musical vocabulary, the musical palette also dies and is reborn in different ways. And I think the reality is that the guitar is going to become a bit like a saxophone or the trumpet before it. It’s going to be something that is still passionately pursued by some people. But it will be a niche kind of thing. And there’s always casualties along the way. And I might be one of those casualties, you know, but I have to accept that.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4082 on: January 25, 2021, 12:03:03 PM »
He's not wrong though? If anything he's late by at least 10 years.
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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4083 on: January 25, 2021, 12:16:19 PM »

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4084 on: January 25, 2021, 12:58:39 PM »
http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/steven_wilson_on_the_future_bites

In recent years it seems fair to say that your interest in electric guitar has waxed and waned—much like the attitude toward guitar in Western culture. Last year, Rolling Stone magazine published an article with the headline “Is the Guitar Solo Finished?” On this new album the guitar has a more textural approach. But there are guitar solos on “Eminent Sleaze” and “Follower.” Tell me about your non-traditional approach to those guitar breaks.

I am a bit bored of the guitar right now. But I think there’s a broader thing here, which is we live in the electronic world now. All the sound we hear on a daily basis around us is electronic. My kids, they don’t hear guitars unless they actually go and specifically listen to a guitar song. Everything around them from the sounds that their iPad makes, to the sound coming from the TV, to the doorbell chimes. What place does the guitar or the bass or the drums have in the world like that? Well, increasingly less and less. I like the idea that music continues to evolve and continues to upset old people like me because it’s gone in a direction that is not as familiar to us.

I think the golden era of rock and roll music, rock music, classic rock music that prevailed for about 50 years—from the 1950s through to the end of the 20th century—is going the same way that jazz music went. Because jazz music was the popular mainstream music of the first half of the 20th century. And classic rock and rock music was the popular mainstream music of the second half of the 20th century.

I believe the music of the first half of the 21st century ultimately is going to come down to the sound of urban music, electronic music, R&B music—or at least music that has a strong electronic element to it.

I’ve increasingly felt myself bored by guitar. I feel like I’ve kind of exhausted the possibilities, at least that I’m capable of exploring, on that instrument. And when a band like Greta Van Fleet is the best that the new wave of rock bands has to offer, you know it’s dead. And I say that with the caveat that I’m sure there is some really great guitar music out there. But my point is this: It’s not in the mainstream.

So, I think Rolling Stone is absolutely right, music moves on, it evolves. And that means that the musical vocabulary, the musical palette also dies and is reborn in different ways. And I think the reality is that the guitar is going to become a bit like a saxophone or the trumpet before it. It’s going to be something that is still passionately pursued by some people. But it will be a niche kind of thing. And there’s always casualties along the way. And I might be one of those casualties, you know, but I have to accept that.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Why the facepalm? It's a pretty valid and strong argument. The 95% of the music we discuss and enjoy in this place is nowhere close to being considered as mainstream. Electronics are king and that's not an opinion, but a fact. It's cool that he recognizes it as such.

Also, he put an awesome guitar-centric album just a few years ago (Hand.Cannot.Erase) so that's pretty much still in his DNA and it ain't going anywhere. Wilson is the poster boy of incendiary public speaking, so no surprises here. He loves making his most intense followers angry and the debate the hell out of this ideas and positions regarding his own music. Remember the whole iPod destroying ordeal during the early 2010s? lol
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4085 on: January 25, 2021, 01:46:23 PM »
Definitely don't think there's anything wrong about what he's saying.  I certainly sense the same thing, however the shot at GVF (again from him) is just lame.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4086 on: January 25, 2021, 02:14:54 PM »
Dude says some really fucking stupid shit sometimes.  His comment about GVF was helpful to me because I was actually considering buying his new album even though I pretty much despise the direction his music has taken, but he just went out of his way to insult a band he doesn't like for no reason other than to massage his own ego.  Fuck this guy.  Words have consequences you fucking elitist tool  >:(

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4087 on: January 25, 2021, 02:19:05 PM »
Well, not liking GVT is like his opinion dude :P

Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4088 on: January 25, 2021, 02:21:59 PM »
Is it bad that I agree with him about GVF too? :P
It's not even about thinking they're a bad band. It's just a reflection of the state of rock in the mainstream eye at this point that a band that derivative is vastly out-popularizing so many other rock bands that are so much better and more creative (and no, I'm not talking about Steven Wilson necessarily; he can be plenty derivative too which does make him a bit of a hypocrite here).
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Offline DTA

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4089 on: January 25, 2021, 02:24:38 PM »
If I refused to buy an album because a musician said stupid shit I would own precisely 0 albums.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4090 on: January 25, 2021, 02:38:00 PM »
I just personally am turned a bit off by his attitude. He's not bad enough to make me not buy an album I'd otherwise buy though.  I do get his point of saying GVF, as in a popular rock band today that isn't doing anything new, but it's at least the second time he's brought them up in an interview.  It seems they get under his skin for some reason. I personally find their success due to marketing, not because they sound like classic rock bands.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4091 on: January 25, 2021, 02:53:39 PM »
It's not JUST because he says stupid shit, but that comment about GVF was gratuitously mean and completely uncalled for.  It doesn't matter if GVF sucks, I can't honestly say I've heard a single note of their music, but I am a musician and while I will certainly be critical of what I perceive as bad music, I'm not going to go out of my way to bag on another band just to try to make myself look better or smarter like he did here.  That's juvenile shit.  He comes across as a fucking tool and yeah, I probably wasn't going to buy his album anyway since he hasn't made a piece of music I've liked in about 10 years, but his comment about GVF solidified that decision for me.  Fuck this guy.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4092 on: January 25, 2021, 03:11:38 PM »
Wilson is British and has strong opinions, so it's nearly impossible for him to NOT insult someone when he speaks. :P :lol

I get his point, about how guitar-driven music isn't mainstream anymore, although he forgot about Muse whose music is still guitar-driven, even with the added synths and electronics over the years, and of course Foo Fighters, who are huge and have loud guitars as the driving force.  But his point is valid, even if the way he said it wasn't very diplomatic.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4093 on: January 25, 2021, 03:21:24 PM »
Wilson is British and has strong opinions, so it's nearly impossible for him to NOT insult someone when he speaks. :P :lol

I get his point, about how guitar-driven music isn't mainstream anymore, although he forgot about Muse whose music is still guitar-driven, even with the added synths and electronics over the years, and of course Foo Fighters, who are huge and have loud guitars as the driving force.  But his point is valid, even if the way he said it wasn't very diplomatic.

I think GVF makes his point more because they are new, Muse and Foo Fighters started in the 90s which by his definition, was still when guitar driven music was popular.  I do agree with the bolded. 

Offline emtee

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #4094 on: January 25, 2021, 03:31:46 PM »
I have a lot to say but I'll try to keep it short.

He made a living off of aping retro prog. Then he decided  it was cliche. Btw, he completely ripped off the total structure of Dogs.

Saying the guitar is dead and electronic music is the future means trends are important to him. That troubles me. He spent many years bucking trends. Now he wants to be trendy and relevant.

GVF doesn't deserve sagging. He comes off as pretentious.

I've truly loved a lot of his music but from here forward, I might be done. He can follow his muse and seek to be hip and trendy. Nothing wrong with that. But I'll pass on this album and this attitude.