Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.

[PixelDream]

Personal Shopper was okay for me, but this is really the first time SW releases a track where I'm genuinely getting worried if I'm going to like the album. But we'll see. I'm allowing him one self indulgent pop record before getting back to teh pr0gz 

[IDontNotDoThings]

I disliked these singles pretty strongly, but I actually don't have a problem with To The Bone at all.

I've been trying to dismantle why that's the case, but I haven't gotten very far. 

[Buddyhunter1]

I disliked these singles pretty strongly, but I actually don't have a problem with To The Bone at all.

I've been trying to dismantle why that's the case, but I haven't gotten very far. 

I mean, To The Bone really doesn't sound like either of the two recent singles. Sure, there's Permenating, but that's just one song and hardly a good representation of the album's overall sound. There's a handful of other songs that aren't overtly-proggy, but they're not overtly-poppy either. And that's not new territory for Steven Wilson by any means.

I like To The Bone a lot - I think it's his second-best solo album behind Hand Cannot Erase.

[HOF]

I disliked these singles pretty strongly, but I actually don't have a problem with To The Bone at all.

I've been trying to dismantle why that's the case, but I haven't gotten very far. 

Because To The Bone could have easily been a PT or Blackfield album. It was very much a regular SW album in my opinion.

[Kram]

I disliked these singles pretty strongly, but I actually don't have a problem with To The Bone at all.

I've been trying to dismantle why that's the case, but I haven't gotten very far. 

To The Bone was a bit more "poppy" than his previous albums, but it was still pretty proggy as well.  Plus they're well written, well crafted songs, IMO.  I'm sorry, but these two singles - let's just say they're far from his best.  I'm still going to support him and give the album a try, but these two songs just are not the type of music I enjoy.  I'm happy for those of you who can find enjoyment out of this "style" - but unfortunately that's not me.

[Fritzinger]

I don't really understand all the hate for Steven's "poppier" direction of To The Bone and the new singles (haven't heard those two though). He has put out songs like Piano Lessons and Four Chords That Made A Million before. He has been part of a project making poppy music called Blackfield and he put out disco music on his last album with Tim Bowness (Love You To Bits by no-man). No one complained. Everyone completely freaked out over To The Bone though, but I don't see how that album goes into a more pop-oriented direction than f.e. Stupid Dream or Lightbulb Sun. In fact, I agree with HOF: I think, To The Bone could have very well been a PT album.

[IDontNotDoThings]

On reflection, I agree that To The Bone is comparable to Stupid Dream/Lightbulb Sun, but I don't think the same applies to The Future Bites. They may both be "pop" but they're very different types of pop.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't really understand all the hate for Steven's "poppier" direction of To The Bone and the new singles (haven't heard those two though). He has put out songs like Piano Lessons and Four Chords That Made A Million before. He has been part of a project making poppy music called Blackfield and he put out disco music on his last album with Tim Bowness (Love You To Bits by no-man). No one complained. Everyone completely freaked out over To The Bone though, but I don't see how that album goes into a more pop-oriented direction than f.e. Stupid Dream or Lightbulb Sun. In fact, I agree with HOF: I think, To The Bone could have very well been a PT album.

They are pop, but also different styles of pop. To The Bone, Stupid Dream/Lightbulb Sun, Blackfield, are more songwriter-esque pop, with To The Bone leaning a bit to the dance side.

Personal Shopper, is pop with Disco, Funk, and some EDM bits. I personally love the way he's using these genres with his lyrics. It's like he made it this way to show exactly how people buy this shit up. It's why he had Elton John saying the shopping list.

[Kram]

I don't really understand all the hate for Steven's "poppier" direction of To The Bone and the new singles (haven't heard those two though). He has put out songs like Piano Lessons and Four Chords That Made A Million before. He has been part of a project making poppy music called Blackfield and he put out disco music on his last album with Tim Bowness (Love You To Bits by no-man). No one complained. Everyone completely freaked out over To The Bone though, but I don't see how that album goes into a more pop-oriented direction than f.e. Stupid Dream or Lightbulb Sun. In fact, I agree with HOF: I think, To The Bone could have very well been a PT album.

You haven't heard the new singles yet.  Would be interested to hear your opinion after you do..

[Anguyen92]

Personal Shopper, is pop with Disco, Funk, and some EDM bits. I personally love the way he's using these genres with his lyrics. It's like he made it this way to show exactly how people buy this shit up. It's why he had Elton John saying the shopping list.

That part was pretty weird.  You had Elton John say ok to work with you on a song.  He could have wrote/sung some lyrics.  He could have played something on the piano.  Nope, Steven Wilson had a list of things on a shopping list and asked Elton to just say those things without any hint of emotion. It's mind-boggling.

[kirksnosehair]

I don't really understand all the hate for Steven's "poppier" direction of To The Bone and the new singles

Let me help you understand that 1.) I don't really "hate" anything except maybe eggs.  2.) I don't listen to Steven Wilson for "pop" just like I don't go to a shoe store for pancakes. 


Now that Steven Wilson has moved off in a direction that doesn't interest me, I won't be getting his new CD.  It's disappointing because as I mentioned in #2 I didn't get into Steven Wilson because I wanted to listen to pop music.


It's just a taste thing.  I have less than no interest in pop music. It's just not my thing.   No hate needed.

[Setlist Scotty]

2.) I don't listen to Steven Wilson for "pop" just like I don't go to a shoe store for pancakes. 

But pancakes have eggs in them, which you say you hate, so duh!   

[jammindude]

I was going to start a new thread for this but it’s probably best suited here.

If an artist that you had known to be “prog” for a long time suddenly shifted direction and did a completely different style *that you were otherwise a fan of* and happened to do it really well...would you accept it?

For example. Let’s say that you REALLY liked ELO, and then Dream Theater released an album in the style of ELO, but they happened to do a pretty damn good job of it...could you accept it on its own merit? Or would you be constantly hung up on the idea that “it’s not DT”?

[Moor]

Honestly, and with all my respect to a musician that I truly admire, that new song makes you ask yourself "is this a joke"? Seriously, my first impression is the same when I saw MP playing on the Hello Kitty drum kit or Corey Taylor singing Sponge Bob square pants 

[MoraWintersoul]

I was going to start a new thread for this but it’s probably best suited here.

If an artist that you had known to be “prog” for a long time suddenly shifted direction and did a completely different style *that you were otherwise a fan of* and happened to do it really well...would you accept it?

For example. Let’s say that you REALLY liked ELO, and then Dream Theater released an album in the style of ELO, but they happened to do a pretty damn good job of it...could you accept it on its own merit? Or would you be constantly hung up on the idea that “it’s not DT”?

Anyone playing any genre well, I usually don't have much of a problem with. But it's just about what you come to people for. I'm generally pretty game for taking things at face value and accepting what my music library throws at me when it's next album time. But some or even most genre enthusiasts look at the music market as an actual market, where they come to pick up what they need. They aren't into DT to follow DT's artistic impulses, but to hear the DT kind of music played really well.

[Elite]

Prog should be a broad church. Anything's prog if you let it be.

While I like the general idea of this, in my experience that's absolutely not how the usual prog fan approaches music.

[Ben_Jamin]

Prog should be a broad church. Anything's prog if you let it be.

While I like the general idea of this, in my experience that's absolutely not how the usual prog fan approaches music.

That's how a Music Fan approaches music. 

Prog Snobs and Metalheads are the same, if not worse than the other genres of fans. Because they feel a sense of musical dominance, my music is better than yours type of attitude.

I personally will listen to any style of music. I do have my favorites and dislikes. But I will find songs I do like within those styles.

If you want to evolve as a musician and grow, you need to explore other styles of music, if it's good then great. If not then oh well. In this case Steven thought it was good enough to release. Or maybe it's a contract thing. Who knows in this music business world.

Honestly, and with all my respect to a musician that I truly admire, that new song makes you ask yourself "is this a joke"? Seriously, my first impression is the same when I saw MP playing on the Hello Kitty drum kit or Corey Taylor singing Sponge Bob square pants 

I see it as a Joke that's Serious. Meaning he's serious in the music he's making, and the joke is how he's using the popular style of Dance and Electronic music to sell his product.

[Peter Mc]

Steven Wilson has always done pop songs though from the days of Stupid Dream onwards. Not all of his songs are prog epics.  I really didn’t find Personal Shopper a particularly big departure at all, it would fit pretty comfortably on most of his albums including PT.  The new one is a bit more of a departure and grated a little at first but it’s pretty sophisticated pop in a Prince/Peter Gabriel kind of way.  It’s not teeny bopper chart music and probably much less commercial than a song like Hand Cannot Erase which is pure pop.

Would I want SW to make albums full of jagged falsetto pop songs like Eminent Sleaze for the rest of his career? No.  At the moment though, it’s one song on one album and it’s grown on me quite a bit.

[Fritzinger]

Steven Wilson has always done pop songs though from the days of Stupid Dream onwards. Not all of his songs are prog epics.  I really didn’t find Personal Shopper a particularly big departure at all, it would fit pretty comfortably on most of his albums including PT.  The new one is a bit more of a departure and grated a little at first but it’s pretty sophisticated pop in a Prince/Peter Gabriel kind of way.  It’s not teeny bopper chart music and probably much less commercial than a song like Hand Cannot Erase which is pure pop.

Would I want SW to make albums full of jagged falsetto pop songs like Eminent Sleaze for the rest of his career? No.  At the moment though, it’s one song on one album and it’s grown on me quite a bit.

Well... Hand. Cannot. Erase. (the song) is quite pop-influenced, but because of its odd time rhythms alone I wouldn't call it "pure pop"...

[devieira73]

https://www.facebook.com/StevenWilsonHQ/videos/2710969272564837/
Steven Wilson new interview.

[RoeDent]

It's on Youtube as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9L5JF7oKoY

[devieira73]

I love SW interviews, all of them are very informative and he's such a intelligent guy and also a regular, nice person. Thanks for youtube link, there's english subtitles, it helps a lot!

[HOF]

Speaking of SW interviews, does anybody else listen to his podcast with Tim Bowness? They basically pick a year and then talk about all the albums they know from that year. It’s very well done and highly entertaining even if you don’t know all the music they’re talking about (and it’s a cool way to learn about new stuff).

What makes it really cool (I think) is you get their perspective as fans/music enthusiasts, but also as musicians and producers/engineers. So they can talk about all levels of an album articulately and intelligently.

[SoundscapeMN]

yes, The Album Years podcast has been a go-to podcast since it launched.

[RoeDent]

So I learnt from the interview that SW has made some adjustments to the album, including a different closing track which bumps the album up over the crucial 40-minute mark. I can't tell if the running order has changed at all. I thought Personal Shopper was right in the middle of the original tracklist rather than third-from-last.

[IDontNotDoThings]

It was originally track 6, but now it's track 7. I assume this was just to make it more vinyl-friendly, because otherwise, with the added length of the closing track, side 2 would have either been too long for vinyl or PS would've had to have been split across the two sides.

[kirksnosehair]

2.) I don't listen to Steven Wilson for "pop" just like I don't go to a shoe store for pancakes. 

But pancakes have eggs in them, which you say you hate, so duh!   

Well played, young man 

[SystematicThought]

We are getting punished with a new Steven Wilson song tonight. King Ghost

People that have heard this one said it sticks out for the better compared to the rest. I have been excited for each track though, nothing has changed for this one. How do people already have the lyrics though?

[IDontNotDoThings]

We are getting punished with a new Steven Wilson song tonight. King Ghost

People that have heard this one said it sticks out for the better compared to the rest. I have been excited for each track though, nothing has changed for this one. How do people already have the lyrics though?

The song leaked many months ago. I think it was supposed to be the 2nd single, but it got taken down & the song's "real" release got pushed back when the album delayed.

[Ben_Jamin]

Listening to Welcome To My DNA, and noticed that Oxygen sounds familiar...

It's Hand. Cannot. Erase.

[Zantera]

Listening to Welcome To My DNA, and noticed that Oxygen sounds familiar...

It's Hand. Cannot. Erase.

Oxygen is better though, and came out earlier.

[Ben_Jamin]

Listening to Welcome To My DNA, and noticed that Oxygen sounds familiar...

It's Hand. Cannot. Erase.

Oxygen is better though, and came out earlier.

Me, being me, played them back to back, and I don't know which one I want to come first. They both go into each other really well, and it's like, you have Avivs Section, where he takes the lead role, and then Stevens section, where he takes the lead role.

[Buddyhunter1]

King Ghost is easily the best of the three singles thus far, though that's a bit of a low bar. The electronic production is really nice on this one.

[Fritzinger]

Listening to Welcome To My DNA, and noticed that Oxygen sounds familiar...

It's Hand. Cannot. Erase.

Don't hear it at all.

And while I think Oxygen is a good tune, Hand. Cannot. Erase. is miles ahead of it in every way imo.

[RoeDent]

sigh...it's like that time when people had the ridiculous idea that Same Asylum was Prodigal again...

This thread is insanely toxic.