Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.

[YtseJamittaja]

I've never understood how you can spoil music. I mean it's not a movie. It's not like reading "I love the guitar-riff towards the middle" completely ruins the song because you know what will happen.

This. Reading something like that^^ would just got me more excited. It's not like spoiling at all.

[ariich]

I've never understood how you can spoil music. I mean it's not a movie. It's not like reading "I love the guitar-riff towards the middle" completely ruins the song because you know what will happen.

Indeed. Though most people do get their expectations raised by hype and positive reviews, or are more inclined to see negative things if someone else has pointed them out to you. I think if you tend to be like that, then avoiding "spoilers" can be a good way to hear something without preconceived expectations.

[King Postwhore]

It's always people's preconceived notions that ruin music and films.  i see it all the time.  That's why when someone sees a film that wmost say is poor and you see it and think, "It wasn't as bad as everybody said", because your expectations were so low.

[Zantera]

With music I guess it's more of an expectation problem. With movies, spoilers can cause some damage. Certain movies whether it's Sixth Sense or Memento (just to name two examples), spoiling the twist to someone will actually kinda ruin their experience. With music it's a bit different. I guess you could potentially spoil cameos, like "I didn't expect Devin Townsend to sing guest vocals on the new SW album" (just an example) and that "surprise" might be spoiling it. On the other hand, in the day and age we live now, those kind of cameos rarely happen, and if someone is a guest on an album, we pretty much know about it months before hearing the actual music.

I do respect other's opinion if they feel discussing unreleased music (or released singles) might be spoilers, but just from a personal PoV, the only person who can spoil it is myself, by listening to it.

[King Postwhore]

Well, you can say that samples for new albums are like spoilers themselves.  Some avoid them like the plague for the same reasons.

[rumborak]

I think the difference how movies and music are consumed is key. Movies are a story to be told, and that usually means that once you've heard it, there's little point to hearing it again. If you get told a key aspect beforehand, it can take away the whole thing.
Music is *meant* to be listened to over and over. So, there isn't really that amount of spoil going on. IMHO.

[bout to crash]

Reading that I caught a couple of PT references. Nice.

Yeah, it's interesting.

Though most people do get their expectations raised by hype and positive reviews, or are more inclined to see negative things if someone else has pointed them out to you. I think if you tend to be like that, then avoiding "spoilers" can be a good way to hear something without preconceived expectations.

Exactly. This is how The Incident was partially spoiled for me, by someone giving me information I did not ask for before I had the album and totally hyping it up.

I don't understand why people are getting so pissy about some of us not wanting to discuss the album before it's out. If it was a DT album, on this forum, people would be getting warnings about discussing it before it came out. It's actually against the rules.
In the past, folks have opened separate "spoiler" threads for this purpose (like the last Opeth album) and it's worked out just fine. Don't tell me that I should be avoiding the thread about my favorite artist because you can't fucking wait until the album comes out. There's a lot more to discuss- tour, website/creepy blog, etc. I shouldn't have to avoid the thread completely because I don't want to hear about the album two months before it comes out.

[King Postwhore]

I think the difference how movies and music are consumed is key. Movies are a story to be told, and that usually means that once you've heard it, there's little point to hearing it again. If you get told a key aspect beforehand, it can take away the whole thing.
Music is *meant* to be listened to over and over. So, there isn't really that amount of spoil going on. IMHO.

Movie lovers would differ with your assessment.  Some watch movies like we listen to music.  I'm more in your corner but I can understand where they come from.

[rumborak]

It's definitely not a black-and-white distinction. Some movies are certainly more on the visually-artistic side (say, 2001 A Space Odyssey), so you can watch those over and over again. But then there are movies like Memento, where having seen the movies once, and thus knowing the twist, takes away a big piece of the movie on the second watching.

[Mister Gold]

I think the difference how movies and music are consumed is key. Movies are a story to be told, and that usually means that once you've heard it, there's little point to hearing it again. If you get told a key aspect beforehand, it can take away the whole thing.
Music is *meant* to be listened to over and over. So, there isn't really that amount of spoil going on. IMHO.

Uh, no not really. Not to be rude, rumborak, but as a Film Studies major, I actually take a bit of offense to that.

Many of the best films are the ones that improve/reveal more with repeated viewings. Practically any film by Stanley Kubrick, for example, improves upon multiple views because the point of the film goes beyond the immediate narrative. It's the themes and concepts that lie underneath everything that keeps you going back.

Take The Shining, for example. On the surface, it's a film about a haunted house or an analysis of an extremely dysfunctional family. The more you watch and analyze the film over again and again, the more you'll notice how there are more things at play than what initially appeared to be there. Just how much of the film is 'real' within itself?

Or how about Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo? The initial film is a romantic noir-thriller, but with each repeated viewing, it becomes less and less of a film and more and more of a dream. Something that evokes the sense of deja vu.

It's definitely not a black-and-white distinction. Some movies are certainly more on the visually-artistic side (say, 2001 A Space Odyssey), so you can watch those over and over again. But then there are movies like Memento, where having seen the movies once, and thus knowing the twist, takes away a big piece of the movie on the second watching.

I actually haven't watched Memento a second time, but I have a feeling it'd be a pretty different viewing this time around, considering how the ending of the film shakes up the entire definition of the whole film. I'd wager it'll probably be akin to The Sixth Sense, in which you see more and more going on within the film to indicate how that twist holds up.

[Orbert]

I can see both sides.  With movies, if it's a good one, I can watch it over and over, and appreciate the acting, the writing, the cinematography, everything, all over again.  To me, it's very much like listening to a favorite piece of music again and again.

With music, that first listen is very important to me.  I want to hear the song unfold naturally, I want to be surprised if there's a key change or a mood change or something, and when I think they're going to come back to a chorus or verse but instead it goes into an instrumental, I want to be surprised by that, too.  When I was younger and had more time, I'd sit and absorb it all while listening to it; reading the lyrics and liner notes, checking out of the pictures and/or artwork.  Today, I listen to most "new" music (new to me) in the car, and it's great to just let it unfold.  I don't even know the song lengths.  When I get to the epic, I don't know it's the epic, I just keep getting blown away by the changes and the different parts, and later I look and it was a 17-minute song or whatever.  I let it take me on the journey.

On a similar note, if everyone's raving about the guitar solo or the bad vocals or something in a particular song, when I get to that song, I'm going to hear it and think "eh, it's not that bad" or "eh, it's not that good" or maybe it is that bad or good, but either way, I'm going to be comparing my impression with what others have said, not just forming my own impression first.


So... for those reasons, I try to keep music "unspoiled" similar to how I try to keep movies unspoiled.  But I also understand that these are music discussion boards, and I can either skip over the discussions I can see are going in that direction, or avoid them completely.  I don't go to IMDb and complain about people spoiling movies that have been out for years, and I wouldn't complain about people discussing new music here.

[rumborak]

Again, I'm saying it's a spectrum. Movies, even though they can clearly be as artistic as any other art form, primarily have a story to tell. Stories have a plot, and once you heard the plot, you know it.
That issue doesn't really exist with music.

[Mister Gold]

Again, I'm saying it's a spectrum. Movies, even though they can clearly be as artistic as any other art form, primarily have a story to tell. Stories have a plot, and once you heard the plot, you know it.
That issue doesn't really exist with music.

Fair enough. I initially missed the bit about spoilers in comparison between films and music, so that's my bad there.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't understand why people are getting so pissy about some of us not wanting to discuss the album before it's out. If it was a DT album, on this forum, people would be getting warnings about discussing it before it came out. It's actually against the rules.
In the past, folks have opened separate "spoiler" threads for this purpose (like the last Opeth album) and it's worked out just fine. Don't tell me that I should be avoiding the thread about my favorite artist because you can't fucking wait until the album comes out. There's a lot more to discuss- tour, website/creepy blog, etc. I shouldn't have to avoid the thread completely because I don't want to hear about the album two months before it comes out.

This is kind of where I lean, especially the bolded part. 

[Zantera]

If people are truly spoiling it, they should either stop it until the album comes out, or make a separate thread for it. I really don't think this album will leak early though, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. SW has usually done a good job together with K-scope/Burning Shed, and while it may leak early, I doubt it will leak more than a week in advance. So hopefully spoilers won't be an issue.

[rumborak]

Just checked the venue SW is playing at in Boston. YES, it's the Berklee Performance Center!! The venue for bands that care about their sound.

[RoeDent]

Music can be very vague. Someone could say "I liked the guitar solo in the middle", and you'd still have no idea exactly how it goes. However, if they said "The guitar solo sounds like Brian May", it automatically puts that into your head. That is probably more of a "spoiler" than the first quote.

[Buddyhunter1]

Just checked the venue SW is playing at in Boston. YES, it's the Berklee Performance Center!! The venue for bands that care about their sound.

Thanks for the heads-up, just bought my ticket.
A bit pricey, but well worth it considering the show I saw on the Raven tour was fantastic.

[rumborak]

Same here. I saw him there for the Raven tour, and was blissfully ignorant of the Raven. My jaw dropped to the floor once they started playing.

[bout to crash]

How much are the Boston tickets? Not that there's any chance of me seeing him there. It'll either be here or the pacific northwest, if he doesn't come to CO. The Portland/Seattle tickets were both around $35, which is absolutely reasonable.

I can see both sides.  With movies, if it's a good one, I can watch it over and over, and appreciate the acting, the writing, the cinematography, everything, all over again.  To me, it's very much like listening to a favorite piece of music again and again.

With music, that first listen is very important to me.  I want to hear the song unfold naturally, I want to be surprised if there's a key change or a mood change or something, and when I think they're going to come back to a chorus or verse but instead it goes into an instrumental, I want to be surprised by that, too.  When I was younger and had more time, I'd sit and absorb it all while listening to it; reading the lyrics and liner notes, checking out of the pictures and/or artwork.  Today, I listen to most "new" music (new to me) in the car, and it's great to just let it unfold.  I don't even know the song lengths.  When I get to the epic, I don't know it's the epic, I just keep getting blown away by the changes and the different parts, and later I look and it was a 17-minute song or whatever.  I let it take me on the journey.

On a similar note, if everyone's raving about the guitar solo or the bad vocals or something in a particular song, when I get to that song, I'm going to hear it and think "eh, it's not that bad" or "eh, it's not that good" or maybe it is that bad or good, but either way, I'm going to be comparing my impression with what others have said, not just forming my own impression first.


So... for those reasons, I try to keep music "unspoiled" similar to how I try to keep movies unspoiled.  But I also understand that these are music discussion boards, and I can either skip over the discussions I can see are going in that direction, or avoid them completely.  I don't go to IMDb and complain about people spoiling movies that have been out for years, and I wouldn't complain about people discussing new music here.

Yeah, totally agree with all of this.
I guess I just became a busy "grown up" but I don't really give new albums the attention and time I used to. Like you, I'm often listening in the car. Though with albums I'm really anticipating, I sort of still make an event out of the first listen. With Raven, I turned down the lights and put it on my record player and laid on the floor while it played 
For that reason I like it to remain as "unspoiled" as possible because like you, I like to be totally surprised by everything.

[Nick]

Guys, this is confirmed, presale began this morning.

Thursday, May 28th, Keswick Theater in Glenside.

I was able to pull a pair of row G tickets, $50 after charges. I only have myself going for now, but felt confident someone here would appreciate the heads up and good seat and hopefully buy the second one. Let me know!

[senecadawg2]

Where did you find out about that show, Nick? Kind of odd that it's not on SW's page... as far as I can tell. Makes me wonder if there are other (closer) shows that might slip by me.

Anyways, if I lived within a couple hours of Glenside I'd gobble that second ticket right up!

[countoftuscany42]

I got an email from the Keswick this morning letting me know about the presale, although a bit more notice would have been nice...
Managed to get a great seat though, looking forward to my first SW show!

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I wish this whole tour date thing was a little more organized. They're popping up here and there but he hasn't actually announced any, just posted three on his site.

[rumborak]

Jackie, I paid $41 for my mezzanine ticket.

[jammindude]

The more solo stuff I hear....the more I'm just *so* disappointed with myself for never having checked out any SW solo material until Raven came out.    I've still never heard Insurgentes or GfD.   


I know...I know.   You may now commence the beatings.

The thing is, I just hardly have any money right now, but I am going to be pre-ordering this.   Though I still don't know if I can afford the deluxe version.  (I want it ***SO BADLY***)   But maybe I'll just pick up the CD/DVD version and then maybe get one of the first two...

[bout to crash]

What is wrong with you?! Go get those first two albums!

[Dark Castle]

What is wrong with you?! Go get those first two albums!

This 4 shore.

[jammindude]

What is wrong with you?! Go get those first two albums!

[mikemangioy]

I'm the same as Jammindude. I want to check those babies out asap.

[King Postwhore]

Wow, another Steven Wilson remix/5.1 of a band and album I love from the 80's!!

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/simple-minds-sparkle-in-the-rain-five-disc-super-deluxe-edition-box/


Damn him.  He's killing my savings account!

[Orbert]

Pretty cool!  I like Simple Minds a lot.  Great band.

[RoeDent]

Yeah, I wish this whole tour date thing was a little more organized. They're popping up here and there but he hasn't actually announced any, just posted three on his site.

Much like the apparent appearance of a song on iTunes. You'd expect at least a tweet from his team saying that it's available. That's what made/makes me question it, even though it is on the biggest music site.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, very strange.

What is wrong with you?! Go get those first two albums!

[Nearmyth]

Title track is   I like it a lot.

This is Steven Wilson's first title track that isn't a piano ballad, which kind of shows me the shift in direction and sound with this album.