Author Topic: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.  (Read 369416 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3395 on: March 31, 2018, 08:09:02 AM »
Buying New Soul is incredible and definitely one of the best songs PT ever did.  Of course, PT had so many great songs that trying to narrow down a list is extremely difficult (although a certain handful are pretty much always going to top the list).

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3396 on: April 01, 2018, 04:59:39 PM »
I would've loved to of heard buying new soul played a few nights ago.

Why did PT have to end :(

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3397 on: April 02, 2018, 09:05:42 AM »

Why did PT have to end :(

I hear ya. I just cannot get into Steven Wilson solo. Granted, I didn't get into PT until In Absentia. But I did travel back and get the whole catalog. But for me, the golden period of IA - Fear of a Blank Planet is just all sorts of awesome (although my favorite tune is still Even Less from Stupid Dream). I am halfway through Rich Wilson's biography on the band (about to hit the IA period), and all I can think about is how I wish PT was still around. I totally respect Steve's solo work, but PT just had this edge...and its gone.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3398 on: April 02, 2018, 09:33:05 AM »
Still flogging that dead horse again, are we?

Porcupine Tree got stale. Thankfully they only went one album too far rather than just keeping going for the sake of it. SW is making the best music of his career right now, and it's the music he wants to make. The PT ship sailed long long ago.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3399 on: April 02, 2018, 09:46:23 AM »
Still flogging that dead horse again, are we?

Porcupine Tree got stale. Thankfully they only went one album too far rather than just keeping going for the sake of it. SW is making the best music of his career right now, and it's the music he wants to make. The PT ship sailed long long ago.

So let me get this straight -- conversation regarding preferring Porcupine Tree to Steven Wilson solo is a "dead horse," because...some have the opinion his solo music is "the best music of his career right now," right?  ::)

Nah, I think we'll continue to discuss PT when we feel like it. Thanks.

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Offline Sacul

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3400 on: April 02, 2018, 09:56:49 AM »
It's not that, just that PT is dead now and we've all discussed how much we'd like them to reunite and such, and have overanalized everything SW has said about them. That's the dead horse, and I think most of us would love to discuss anything about the band but that again.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3401 on: April 02, 2018, 10:25:20 AM »
It's not that, just that PT is dead now and we've all discussed how much we'd like them to reunite and such, and have overanalized everything SW has said about them. That's the dead horse, and I think most of us would love to discuss anything about the band but that again.

Well, honestly, I think that's pretty stuck up. I get it, but if people want to discuss PT, they shouldn't be made to feel it is unwelcome. I very much respect SW's work. I prefer his work as a member of PT, as do many others.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3402 on: April 02, 2018, 07:34:41 PM »
To me, I just don’t understand how someone could be that dismissive of SW’s solo work. 

I mean, ya....Insurgents was very different, but then Grace for Drowning had some stuff that sounded more PT on it, but more than half didn’t.   Then Raven started to seriously sound a lot more like PT to my ears.   As in, 2/3rds of it could have been on any PT album from IA to Fear.   And then Hand Cannot Erase just plain sounds like a straight up wall to wall PT album from start to finish.   I think that’s probably why he wanted to do something more drastic with To the Bone.   Because for all of his talk about trying to do something different, he has started off drastically different, and then over four albums had turned into an exact PT clone.    And even now there are about 3 or 4 songs from To the Bone that I could picture PT doing in a heartbeat. Detonation in particular. 
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3403 on: April 02, 2018, 07:42:48 PM »
Still flogging that dead horse again, are we?

Porcupine Tree got stale. Thankfully they only went one album too far rather than just keeping going for the sake of it. SW is making the best music of his career right now, and it's the music he wants to make. The PT ship sailed long long ago.

So let me get this straight -- conversation regarding preferring Porcupine Tree to Steven Wilson solo is a "dead horse," because...some have the opinion his solo music is "the best music of his career right now," right?  ::)

Nah, I think we'll continue to discuss PT when we feel like it. Thanks.

I think we actually have a Porcupine Tree thread.

And I don't think anyone has a problem discussing PT generally, it's just when the thread (nominally about SW's solo career) starts to get full of 'BRING PT BACK' it gets kind of annoying, especially since Steven's been really clear about his feelings on the matter.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3404 on: April 02, 2018, 07:46:33 PM »
To me, I just don’t understand how someone could be that dismissive of SW’s solo work. 

I mean, ya....Insurgents was very different, but then Grace for Drowning had some stuff that sounded more PT on it, but more than half didn’t.   Then Raven started to seriously sound a lot more like PT to my ears.   As in, 2/3rds of it could have been on any PT album from IA to Fear.   And then Hand Cannot Erase just plain sounds like a straight up wall to wall PT album from start to finish.   I think that’s probably why he wanted to do something more drastic with To the Bone.   Because for all of his talk about trying to do something different, he has started off drastically different, and then over four albums had turned into an exact PT clone.    And even now there are about 3 or 4 songs from To the Bone that I could picture PT doing in a heartbeat. Detonation in particular.

Huh?  Hand Cannot Erase sounds like PT from start to finish?  That's a new one. 

It feels like I have been disagreeing with you a lot lately. Stop saying crazy stuff I have to post and disagree with. :P :biggrin:

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3405 on: April 02, 2018, 08:18:28 PM »
If SW doesn't want to bring PT back then he doesn't have to, it's his choice to put PT to rest.

That said very little, if any, of his solo work sounds like PT.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3406 on: April 02, 2018, 08:56:23 PM »
I think Jammindude brings up a good point honestly. At the start of SW's solo project there was all this talk of "now I can do more things and I'm not limited" and I think it showed especially on Insurgentes but even Grace/Raven, but we're now 5 albums into his solo career and it doesn't seem like he wants to do anything that different to what he was doing after all.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3407 on: April 02, 2018, 09:21:08 PM »
Just why Bollywood dancers of all things to bring when associated it to a song like Permanating?  Nothing wrong with that.  It's a nice touch to a song like that.  I just don't understand why.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3408 on: April 03, 2018, 05:10:10 AM »
Jimmy, I think you are looking for harsh changes like we saw from  Insurgentes through Raven but the last few were subtle.  Like the 80's influence.  It's still SW but just the tinge of difference.
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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3409 on: April 03, 2018, 05:45:40 AM »
Jimmy, I think you are looking for harsh changes like we saw from  Insurgentes through Raven but the last few were subtle.  Like the 80's influence.  It's still SW but just the tinge of difference.

I'm not denying the changes are there, it's just that to me there hasn't been enough distinction to warrant the "I gotta leave PT to do my own thing". Especially the last two albums have plenty of songs that could have been PT songs, and he's started playing a lot of PT songs live again, which I think strengthens that because SW feels like those PT songs fit into the set that's mostly HCE and TTB songs.

Overall I'm somewhere in the middle as I think PT is probably the best SW has done, but he has made really good albums in his solo career (I would put Insurgentes and Grace over half of the PT albums at least) and with The Incident being somewhat of a disappointing end to PT (not bad, just a lesser PT album compared to earlier ones) and him getting a bit of a spark with the solo stuff initially, I'm somewhere in the middle I guess. I haven't LOVED any of his last 3 albums (though they were all good) but I don't know if a new PT album would have turned out any better either, at least if The Incident was anything to go by.

I do miss PT and would like new PT stuff at some point but I think SW is equally capable of delivering a good solo album as a new PT album.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3410 on: April 03, 2018, 05:54:48 AM »
Could it be also for financial reasons that he canceled PT?

In a band the individual band members get maybe more of the record and tour money, even though SW is almost the lone songwriter, than the hired musicians he takes on tour nowadays.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3411 on: April 03, 2018, 06:03:10 AM »
Jimmy, I think you are looking for harsh changes like we saw from  Insurgentes through Raven but the last few were subtle.  Like the 80's influence.  It's still SW but just the tinge of difference.

I'm not denying the changes are there, it's just that to me there hasn't been enough distinction to warrant the "I gotta leave PT to do my own thing". Especially the last two albums have plenty of songs that could have been PT songs, and he's started playing a lot of PT songs live again, which I think strengthens that because SW feels like those PT songs fit into the set that's mostly HCE and TTB songs.

Overall I'm somewhere in the middle as I think PT is probably the best SW has done, but he has made really good albums in his solo career (I would put Insurgentes and Grace over half of the PT albums at least) and with The Incident being somewhat of a disappointing end to PT (not bad, just a lesser PT album compared to earlier ones) and him getting a bit of a spark with the solo stuff initially, I'm somewhere in the middle I guess. I haven't LOVED any of his last 3 albums (though they were all good) but I don't know if a new PT album would have turned out any better either, at least if The Incident was anything to go by.

I do miss PT and would like new PT stuff at some point but I think SW is equally capable of delivering a good solo album as a new PT album.

I totally get what you are saying.   I also think he is so hands on in the music the other in PT were complaining about their input and in the end. Steven wanted his vision where he writes it all or plays a lot of it.  No one can tell me Steven is a better bass player than Nick Beggs yet Steven plays a lot of the bass on the albums.
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Offline ganpondorodf

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3412 on: April 03, 2018, 06:05:07 AM »
Just why Bollywood dancers of all things to bring when associated it to a song like Permanating?  Nothing wrong with that.  It's a nice touch to a song like that.  I just don't understand why.

Because it's a nice touch maybe?

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3413 on: April 03, 2018, 06:50:54 AM »
Could it be also for financial reasons that he canceled PT?

In a band the individual band members get maybe more of the record and tour money, even though SW is almost the lone songwriter, than the hired musicians he takes on tour nowadays.
SW has stated that none of his solo tours have been profitable yet, because the big production and the musicians's salaries cost so much. In fact, staying with PT would've been more safe and reasonable from a financial point of view, because they were on an upward trend and were even told that the next album would be their big break and the tour would gross $5 million.

I'm pretty sure it simply boils down to creative control in the end: SW started doing the solo stuff to break away from PT for a while, but then he realized he was having more fun being 100% in charge and decided to stay on that path. That's probably why he didn't return to the band even though he got the jazz/retro prog out of his system and the latest two solo albums are closer to the PT sound - he can do slightly similar things musically, but without compromises now. As a fan who got into PT after the band was put on ice, I'd love to see them live at least once and I think they deserve a better swansong than The Incident, but I don't want them to reunite out of obligation - SW is doing well right now, and working on his own is more natural for him anyway, as Rich Wilson's book points out. Maybe if he gets stuck in a rut with his solo career at some point and feels the need to branch out and collaborate with other people again to get his mojo back, the time may come for PT again.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3414 on: April 03, 2018, 07:19:50 AM »
PT was basically just Steven Wilson anyway, he wrote nearly everything so makes no difference to me whether it's Porcupine Tree or SW solo.  The solo band live completely smokes Porcupine Tree in my opinion though and I also agree that The Incident was the sound of them going stale as SW was maybe pandering to the other band members and/or PT fans.

I will admit that I went away from SW during the Grace For Drowning, Storm Corrosion period and didn't even buy Raven as I thought I wouldn't like it.  Hand Cannot Erase brought me back as it is basically classic Porcupine Tree in all but name and I went back and bought Raven which is also brilliant, as is the new record.  I really don't pine for Porcupine Tree to be honest as much as love their stuff, I just really see it as part of Steven Wilson's back catalogue and he is still making great music with better musicians imo.  He is also doing much better as a solo artist than he ever did with PT so no reason for him to go back unless, as he has said in the past, they pull their fingers out and bring something to him rather than him having to carry them.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3415 on: April 03, 2018, 07:27:27 AM »
I see the argument that he's making music with better musicians now a lot and while I think that's true, to me the heart and soul of his music has always been him. Listening to a more bare-bone song like Last Chance to Evacuate Planet Earth Before It Is Recycled or something like A Smart Kid - there's a type of magic there that SW has the ability to capture no matter who he is working with. If you want a more recent example I think the title track of Raven stands head and shoulders above other songs on the album that feature more stand-out musicianship, whereas the title track is very "basic" in comparison.

Listening to the older PT albums I especially like SW's guitar playing. I don't think there's anyone here who would say he's a better guitarist than Guthrie Govan, but to me he has a personal sound and it adds something to the music which I've missed a bit from some of his solo albums. There's something to be appreciated about being limited and pulling off something great compared to someone like Guthrie who can play just about anything and I'm still not as impressed. 

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3416 on: April 04, 2018, 07:36:23 AM »
Totally agree, particularly about his guitar playing, he's one of my favourite guitar players.  It was one of my issues with Porcupine Tree in the later years when I went to see them live he had John Wesley playing most of his guitar solos and he is not good at all imo.  At least with the SW solo stuff, he is not generally playing all the guitar solos on the record so I have no problem when he is not playing them all live.  SW does play most of the guitar on the new record though.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3417 on: April 04, 2018, 05:26:41 PM »
Yep, that is one major advantage SW's live band as a solo artist has over PT; a far better 2nd guitarist next to SW.  I cringed every time John Wesley would play a solo live with PT, as it was always...not good.

As for comparing PT to SW solo, sure, it is easy to look at a few songs from the last few albums and say, "Sounds like PT," but really, that means, "Sounds like classic SW."  If you look at it from a micro level, not a macro one, the differences are pretty evident. 

Offline jammindude

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3418 on: April 04, 2018, 09:25:34 PM »
I think it depends on how much of PT you’re looking at.  I mean ya, if you only look at the classic period (IA-Fear) then you’re going to hear a lot of differences.   But I also hear his solo stuff harkening more back to the Signify-SD-LS era.   Of course, you’re also venturing back into a time when Steven was a bit more of a driving force.   I got the impression that it all started with just him...then as the band came on board, it slowly became more and more of a “band effort” (for example, Steven explicitly stated later on during the classic era of the band that there were certain jazz elements that he had been wanting to try that Richard was flatly against.).  This statement leads me to believe that he found the group dynamic limiting, even though it had all started with just him and no band. 

To tell you the truth, I must echo the sentiments of what was said earlier.   I have a feeling that it was more of a legal thing.   If Steven Wilson had 100% of a share in the Porcupine Tree name, he could have just told the hired guns to play what he wrote....or even just replaced members as he saw fit.  But I have a feeling that it was drawn up with Richard, Colin and Gavin having a say in what happened.   So he just had to throw the baby out with the bath water in order to regain full control. 
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3419 on: April 05, 2018, 05:03:25 AM »
Sometimes being restricted can be a good thing, I think the nice thing about PT was the band did have some say it seems, even if it might have been very little say. To me there was a sense of cohesion in PT that his solo work lacks to my ears. I think the only SW album that came close was The Raven.

I'm happy he is happy doing what he loves, but tt would've been interesting to hear what the next PT releases would've sounded like post PT if he kept it going.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3420 on: April 05, 2018, 05:14:48 AM »
Sometimes being restricted can be a good thing, I think the nice thing about PT was the band did have some say it seems, even if it might have been very little say. To me there was a sense of cohesion in PT that his solo work lacks to my ears. I think the only SW album that came close was The Raven.


This I can actually agree with and hadn't thought about. But when I think about Stupid Dream or Signify, or Lightbulb Sun - I think of very cohesive albums that has a "sound" or style that oozes through the whole album and everything feels like it fits. I feel like that's something I miss from his last few albums. I think Insurgentes, Grace and even Raven works in that regard cause they create like their own worlds where the music just fits, but HCE and TTB have both felt more like "anything goes" albums. As much as I like Permanating, Detonation and Song of I for example, I don't think those three songs should be on the same album.

But I don't wanna be too harsh about it either because if you're branching out and trying new things and other musical styles you're also sacrificing the cohesion of the album at the same time so it's kinda like a "cant have the cake and eat it too" scenario.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3421 on: April 16, 2018, 06:32:33 PM »
Great mini documentary regarding the tour and the stage setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrvkSZu0mac&feature=youtu.be

I so wish I had gone somewhere to see a show.  Can't wait for the blu-ray now.
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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3422 on: April 18, 2018, 12:41:56 AM »
Hello, simple question from a SW noob (but I liked lot of things on youtube from his solo work).

What songs or album do you recommend me in the Luminol kind ?
I'm very proggy, so I'm not searching in the ambient or pop vibes (lol SW pop)

Or maybe PT had some more rock tunes ?

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3423 on: April 18, 2018, 12:54:14 AM »
Hello, simple question from a SW noob (but I liked lot of things on youtube from his solo work).

What songs or album do you recommend me in the Luminol kind ?
I'm very proggy, so I'm not searching in the ambient or pop vibes (lol SW pop)

Or maybe PT had some more rock tunes ?

Cheers !

The Raven That Refused to Sing (And Other Stories) is his most proggy album and also his best (imo). Luminol is from it.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3424 on: April 18, 2018, 03:05:18 AM »
I'd go with Hand Cannot Erase and Grace For Drowning. The former has some catchy tunes but it also has Ancestral and Home Invasion/Regret.

The latter one is very Crimso-Like and obscure.
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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3425 on: April 20, 2018, 12:50:28 PM »
I know some will find it stupid, but I came across this again today and I can never not watch it and laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGtUyDznsr4&feature=youtu.be&t=5m17s
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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3426 on: April 20, 2018, 12:56:19 PM »
what

the

fuck
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3427 on: April 20, 2018, 04:21:10 PM »
I was laughing at the terrible attempt to do SW accent, not even close!

I picked up the SW 12" RSD 2018 single today, looks nice, haven't opened it yet.

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3428 on: April 20, 2018, 06:18:34 PM »
Hello, simple question from a SW noob (but I liked lot of things on youtube from his solo work).

What songs or album do you recommend me in the Luminol kind ?
I'm very proggy, so I'm not searching in the ambient or pop vibes (lol SW pop)

Or maybe PT had some more rock tunes ?

Cheers !

Luminol is really the only song like it that SW has.  Sure, the rest of The Raven is proggy in the classic sense, but Luminol is what I would say almost all other SW songs are not: showy (from a playing standpoint).

If you want the prog, get The Raven, Grace for Drowning and Hand Cannot Erase, as far as solo SW.

As for PT, if you want prog, get The Sky Moves Sideways, Signify and Fear of a Blank Planet.

If you want ROCK, get Deadwing and In Absentia.

Or just get it all, which you will eventually anyway. :coolio

Offline Lax

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Re: Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.
« Reply #3429 on: April 21, 2018, 03:05:53 PM »
Thank you all for your insight, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy your recommendations :)
Cheers
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