Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.

[erwinrafael]

Am I the only one who thinks that the albhm has one production flaw: the bass drums are low. It's hard to discern Marco's footwork.

[PixelDream]

Am I the only one who thinks that the albhm has one production flaw: the bass drums are low. It's hard to discern Marco's footwork.

What are you listening the album on? Make sure to listen on some good equipment and turn off EQ.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, though the physical letter to her brother is only in the book, the text of it is exactly the same as the song lyrics, except the letter has a date on it, which coincides with the journal entry where she says she barely knows her brother.

Do we have ANY idea what "Ascendant Here On..." means? Either the title or the weird (though lovely) pictures?

It's her disappearing, we don't know if she dies, she completely isolates herself or gets abducted by those strange "visitors"

I think the photos serve the purpose of being intentionally ambiguous but meant to evoke images of alien/space-type stuff. The last photo in the book (which isn't in the blog) almost looks like an actual space photo, but may just be a very starry night sky.

As for the title, it obviously refers to some sort of ascension, which could be literal or figurative. If there are "visitors" it could mean she's actually ascended with them, or that in death she believes she will be ascending, or if she's crazy that she thinks in her isolation/hallucinations she's reaching some sort of higher plane. The "here on" could mean "from here on out" oooor even possibly be referring to wherever she has gone or thinks she has gone. Like "here on Mars." Who the hell knows, but it's fun to speculate 

[erwinrafael]

Am I the only one who thinks that the albhm has one production flaw: the bass drums are low. It's hard to discern Marco's footwork.

What are you listening the album on? Make sure to listen on some good equipment and turn off EQ.

I am listening on good earphones, but not in-ears. I damaged my in-ears. I have been comparing the bass drums to those of Haken's The Mountain and some DT albums, and I think I prefer the more audible bass drums in those albums.

[Nick]

Had to stop at home today and...

IT HATH ARRIVED.

Can't wait to get out of work. This thing is going to be on a loop tonight and tomorrow night.

[BRGM]

Am I the only one who thinks that the albhm has one production flaw: the bass drums are low. It's hard to discern Marco's footwork.

What are you listening the album on? Make sure to listen on some good equipment and turn off EQ.

I am listening on good earphones, but not in-ears. I damaged my in-ears. I have been comparing the bass drums to those of Haken's The Mountain and some DT albums, and I think I prefer the more audible bass drums in those albums.

Yeah those albums've got some pretty loud bass drums, I do however find the bass drums to be alot more audible on this release than on the Raven.

[Nihil-Morari]

Yeah, though the physical letter to her brother is only in the book, the text of it is exactly the same as the song lyrics, except the letter has a date on it, which coincides with the journal entry where she says she barely knows her brother.

Do we have ANY idea what "Ascendant Here On..." means? Either the title or the weird (though lovely) pictures?

It's her disappearing, we don't know if she dies, she completely isolates herself or gets abducted by those strange "visitors"

I think the photos serve the purpose of being intentionally ambiguous but meant to evoke images of alien/space-type stuff. The last photo in the book (which isn't in the blog) almost looks like an actual space photo, but may just be a very starry night sky.

As for the title, it obviously refers to some sort of ascension, which could be literal or figurative. If there are "visitors" it could mean she's actually ascended with them, or that in death she believes she will be ascending, or if she's crazy that she thinks in her isolation/hallucinations she's reaching some sort of higher plane. The "here on" could mean "from here on out" oooor even possibly be referring to wherever she has gone or thinks she has gone. Like "here on Mars." Who the hell knows, but it's fun to speculate 

I will not have your alien stuff, I'm sorry 

There's a big difference in the ghost stories of Raven, and stories of alien abduction. Ghost stories are classic, they have been written for ages, and though there are stories of extra-terrestrial beings going back a long time, most of them have been written by lunatics, ghost stories by writers.

[BlackInk]

If this album is confirmed to be about alien abductions I will definetaly like the album a lot less. For now I will just ignore all that and stick to my own interpretation.

[Nekov]

I'm eagerly waiting for SW to announce more shows in South America, so far Chile is the only country where the shows are confirmed..... WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG??!!!

[rumborak]

With all those different packaging options, I'm still missing the "adult diaper package". For that first listen.

[King Postwhore]

So Rumbo it's true then that Hands.Cannot.Erase. that mess.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I love this album so much I shelled out $150 for an unopened copy of the Deluxe Edition on eBay. It's my compensation for not being able to see Wilson live this year.

[rumborak]

*wrong thread*!

[YtseJamittaja]

So Rumbo it's true then that Hands.Cannot.Erase. that mess.

 

[rumborak]

Once you regret #2, the stench is ascendant, from there on.

[Sacul]

I was wondering, what do you think of the title now? Do you still hate it? I've got used to it, and kind of like it - it gives it a modern artistic air, which fits considering how modern it sounds, and the character's job as a painter.

[BlackInk]

I always liked it. Still like it.

[Tom Bombadil]

I always liked it. Still like it.

Yup

[bout to crash]

Still neutral on the title here. It's fine.

Once you regret #2, the stench is ascendant, from there on.

 

Yeah, though the physical letter to her brother is only in the book, the text of it is exactly the same as the song lyrics, except the letter has a date on it, which coincides with the journal entry where she says she barely knows her brother.

Do we have ANY idea what "Ascendant Here On..." means? Either the title or the weird (though lovely) pictures?

It's her disappearing, we don't know if she dies, she completely isolates herself or gets abducted by those strange "visitors"

I think the photos serve the purpose of being intentionally ambiguous but meant to evoke images of alien/space-type stuff. The last photo in the book (which isn't in the blog) almost looks like an actual space photo, but may just be a very starry night sky.

As for the title, it obviously refers to some sort of ascension, which could be literal or figurative. If there are "visitors" it could mean she's actually ascended with them, or that in death she believes she will be ascending, or if she's crazy that she thinks in her isolation/hallucinations she's reaching some sort of higher plane. The "here on" could mean "from here on out" oooor even possibly be referring to wherever she has gone or thinks she has gone. Like "here on Mars." Who the hell knows, but it's fun to speculate 

I will not have your alien stuff, I'm sorry 

There's a big difference in the ghost stories of Raven, and stories of alien abduction. Ghost stories are classic, they have been written for ages, and though there are stories of extra-terrestrial beings going back a long time, most of them have been written by lunatics, ghost stories by writers.

Well, for the record in the post you quoted I was presenting several different options, not saying "It's definitely aliens, yo." But I'll still debate you on this because I find it very interesting 

I'm still not sure why it would be soo out of the blue for someone like Steven Wilson to cover that topic, considering his track record. Even if ghost stories are "classic" there's just as little evidence to back them up AND true or not, the whole alien thing has become almost as much a part of culture. It's a very common topic in books, in film, on TV... why not music? What if he finds the concept interesting? Writing about the topic doesn't mean he's a crazy person who thinks he's going to be abducted by aliens, it just means he wanted to write about it. The songs in Raven imply that ghosts are real, so why can't this album imply that aliens are among us? Why does it have to be realistic or logical? It's art!

And really, whether or not it's all in her head or it's real, one read through the blog and there is no denying that it's full of references to "visitors" and her leaving the world with them... so I'm not sure why it's so far-fetched to think aliens are a possibility for a fictional concept written by the same man who's responsible for On The Sunday of Life and a song that samples Richard Nixon's phone call to the moon 

[bout to crash]

Ghost stories are classic, they have been written for ages, and though there are stories of extra-terrestrial beings going back a long time, most of them have been written by lunatics, ghost stories by writers.

Also, the more I read it the more I completely disagree with this point. (First of all, you're implying that ghost stories are inherently more legit, but this just doesn't make sense.) There are tons of respectable alien/space stories out there in so many different venues. I can't even begin to list them, but just think of all the movies/books/shows you can name that involve aliens. Sure, the people who created some of these might be (awesomely) weird, but they're not all lunatics. They're people interested in the subject matter, from an artistic perspective, from a sociological perspective, from a money-making perspective, from the perspective I hold which is "There's no fucking way Earth has the only life in this giant fucking universe. Maybe it's like this..."

Whether or not you believe in aliens, they exist in our consciousness, if that makes sense. And they're a part of society. Therefore, ART!

Also, even IF you were right about the ghosts vs. aliens thing... so what? Why would that discount SW's interest in the topic and/or the possibility that he wanted to include it in his album? I just don't actually see why this is relevant, the more I think about it.

[mikemangioy]

Anyways, I don't give too much importance on how she disappears, the album's not about that. So i simply ignore any speculation of sorts 

[Sacul]

I believe she's schizophrenic, and sees and perceives these visitors. That explains a lot of her visions, and how she finds new photos from time to time.

[Buddyhunter1]

Yeah, I simply interpreted all the weird/supernatural stuff towards the end of the blog as her finally losing her mind from the isolation. No aliens. She isolates herself, she slowly goes insane, she dies. That's it.

[bout to crash]

I believe she's schizophrenic, and sees and perceives these visitors. That explains a lot of her visions, and how she finds new photos from time to time.

Okay... so who took the photo of her and her sister sitting by the water, and how did she post it on a blog if it doesn't actually exist? Is the reader also hallucinating? 


(Also, there's not nearly enough info here for a DSM diagnosis, but the odds of schizophrenia onset at such a young age-considering these visitors have been coming since she was 13 or younger-are very unlikely.)

[Onno]

Yeah, though the physical letter to her brother is only in the book, the text of it is exactly the same as the song lyrics, except the letter has a date on it, which coincides with the journal entry where she says she barely knows her brother.

Hmm, that's interesting. Having read only the blog (I don't have the deluxe) and listened to the album, I thought the 'Happy Returns' bit was supposed to be after she disappeared and came back. Why? Because the 28th February entry of the blog says 'You can come back if you want to...' which is also in Ancestral, which of course is the song before Happy Returns. I also interpreted the lyrics to 'Happy Returns' as having a positive/optimistic side to them: it always seemed to me she realised while writing that letter that she wanted to change how she lived (because of the 'I feel I'm living in parentheses' and 'do the kids remember me?' parts). That, of course, meant for me that the story ended with her disappearing/dying/whatever after not finishing that letter.

However, with the letter (21 December 2014 then, isn't it?) being dated before the 'Ancestral' (28th February 2015) part means that she decides to leave in the end after all? Or dies, or gets abducted, or whatever. I found a quote in this interview:

Interviewer: 'Joyce Carol Vincent's story didn't end well. But your story seems to end on a hopeful note on "Happy Returns" and "Ascendant Here On"—the protagonist of your story is trying to reconnect with her loved ones. The music is bright rather than melancholy. Take me into your decision to end the album on that note rather than end on a downbeat, like Joyce Carol Vincent's story.'

Steven Wilson: 'I think it would've been a real downer and depressing to base the story exactly on Joyce Carol Vincent. It had a tragic ending. In my story, [the ending] is definitely ambiguous. It's interesting—we talked a little bit about science fiction earlier on—there's actually a little frisson of sci-fi possibility in there. In her blog, she talks about visitors in the night and people talking to her about some other place so there's little hint of that. I like the fact that it's ambiguous.

I think you're right, it has got a hopeful ending. You can make up your own mind about where this character goes.'

Regarding the alien abduction stuff: I think I agree with Buddyhunter here, at least on the supernatural stuff being hallucinations. I do find it very intriguing though. The 'they visited today' etc. parts give the story a really cool David Lynch-like quality, especially with them never being explained properly.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, definitely some Lynch in there. Like I said, I'm not discounting the possibility of her being crazy, but it simply doesn't explain the photograph and other things.

The letter, I believe is dated December 22nd 2014, so the day after the blog entry.

Thanks for sharing that interview, haven't read it yet but the fact that he says there's sci-fi "possibility" shows that I'm not completely fucking crazy for interpreting this the way I do, as some folks here would like to have me think 

[Onno]

The alien stuff doesn't bother me much; I find it interesting. What I find frustrating is that now in the blog and the book it seems to me as if 'Ancestral' and 'Happy Returns' have swapped places regarding their lyrics. It's great to have a story/concept to speculate about and to discuss, but now it almost seems to me we have two different versions of the story...

[425]

A non-alien-related lyrical question I've been thinking about: From whose perspective is 3 Years Older written? Is it the guy that the main character dated in college who fell in love with her?

[bout to crash]

I assumed it was for her sister, who was three years older.

edit: also, in the deluxe book those lyrics are included in with her little teenage journal from when her sister lived with her.

The alien stuff doesn't bother me much; I find it interesting. What I find frustrating is that now in the blog and the book it seems to me as if 'Ancestral' and 'Happy Returns' have swapped places regarding their lyrics. It's great to have a story/concept to speculate about and to discuss, but now it almost seems to me we have two different versions of the story...

Well, the blog technically doesn't have either song, because the lyrics are only in the book/album. Yeah, there's a blog entry about her brother and one saying "You can come back," but I don't think the latter should be taken as a one-time thing. She's obviously talked to these "visitors" (whoever they are) maaany times and been told a lot of the same things. So I don't think anything is swapped, necessarily, because I don't think it needs to be in a particular order.
Anyway, the story is supposed to be ambiguous as he says, so it's no wonder we are getting it from different angles... but I don't really think it's two whole different versions.

[425]

That makes more sense than what I thought, probably.

[Nick]

Well, interesting first day with this album, but in a word I'd say I'm underwhelmed. With Raven I loved the album from listen 1 and it only grew from there. Here I just have a problem latching on to much after the title track. I feel a track similar to the title track thrown in half way and nearer the end of the album could have really balanced it more.

Soundwise, it is of course pristine, and I enjoy the ambient sections a good bit, it just seems to wander musically and lyrically into nowhere. I usually don't read into lyrics much, but I read everything, and even read the online journal thing, and was just kinda left pissed off. Like, this is all very cool, but what the fuck does it all mean? I suppose it's why I hate poetry most of the time, I hate open ended bullshit. I want to be told a story and have some clue what the hell is going on. I realize that's not Wilson's style, but since I took a rare investment into that realm of things I was kinda annoyed.

I full expect the album will grow on me, but I can't even fathom this touching Raven.

[425]

How many times have you heard it? The first time I heard it I wondered what the fuck was even going on. The second time it started to come together a little clearer, and within a few hours I was craving listen #3. For me, it grew massively. No idea if it'll beat Raven; it's way too early to say, but they're both fantastic in my opinion.

I have to say that I have no idea what the fuck it all means either, but I'm used to Steven writing lyrics that are far from my cup of tea. When the music is THIS good, I'll take it.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I didn't love it on first listen but it definitely grew on me a lot and still is growing.

Nick, I don't think the story is THAT ambiguous. Sure, we don't know how it ends, but the blog and all of that give you a really interesting glimpse into the life of a person, at the very least. It's not like the language is hard to follow or understand- it just leaves you not knowing if this woman is crazy or has actually left the earth with some visitors. But it's not like you have absolutely no idea what's going on. You know a lot about her and her life, her past, her art, etc. Everything doesn't need to be spelled out for it to be enjoyable IMO. I rather enjoy the discussion we've been having here, which wouldn't be possible had things been laid out more obviously.

[mikemangioy]

IF YOU DIDN'T WATCH BIRDMAN AND PLAN TO PLEASE DPN'T READ THIS MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD





It's like Birdman, we don't know if he died or flied or hell, even hallucinated the whole scene, IMO it's the last one.

[Onno]

Well, the blog technically doesn't have either song, because the lyrics are only in the book/album. Yeah, there's a blog entry about her brother and one saying "You can come back," but I don't think the latter should be taken as a one-time thing. She's obviously talked to these "visitors" (whoever they are) maaany times and been told a lot of the same things. So I don't think anything is swapped, necessarily, because I don't think it needs to be in a particular order.
Anyway, the story is supposed to be ambiguous as he says, so it's no wonder we are getting it from different angles... but I don't really think it's two whole different versions.

I see your point. Nonetheless, as I said, my view on the story was that 'Ancestral' showed the part where she decides to leave or at least hits a low in her mental situation. Following that, 'Happy Returns' could be seen as a semi-positive turn, where she wants to reconnect with her family, but failing to do so because she gets drowsy and 'disappears' after that. With the blog having the stories in different orders, I think my view on the story is disproven