Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[KevShmev]

And yet the band still says nothing about it?  That is kinda poor to announce a new tour and not acknowledge a significant member departure.  This isn't 1990.  This is 2021 where you can keep fans in the loop easily via social media.

As I've also said earlier in this thread, I highly doubt the band is keeping us from an announcement simply because they don't want to let us know. It should tell you something that Diego also hasn't said anything publicly.

I will take your word for it, but it just seems bizarre. 

[Kocak]

There might be some ongoing legal stuff that prevents any party from making a statement.

[Fritzinger]

Haken eats Symphony X for breakfast and poops it around 11am.

ftfy

[Fritzinger]

A friend of mine had brief contact with Ray via social media messages and just asked him about Diego. He just replied that unfortunately he is legally not allowed to talk about it.

[ariich]

A friend of mine had brief contact with Ray via social media messages and just asked him about Diego. He just replied that unfortunately he is legally not allowed to talk about it.

Interesting, well that's pretty clear really.

[Kwyjibo]

If Diego left there sure is a lot of legal stuff to work out.

But what I don't understand is, what legal obligation is keeping them from saying, yeah, Diego left. Not more and not less, just this annoucement. I would have thought that much is possible, but then I'm no lawyer.

[me7]

Maybe there is a dispute whether he left or was let go? And making public statements would compromise that party as the initiator of the split?

[cramx3]

Maybe there is a dispute whether he left or was let go? And making public statements would compromise that party as the initiator of the split?

There must be some nasty break up ramifications that come down to money and neither party is going to say anything to potentially jeopardize what's at risk.  Just my thoughts. 

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

[Ben_Jamin]

I am not going to speculate. And even at that, when they announce Diego has left Haken, what makes one believe they will be completely honest in their statement and won't say something like, "Due to personal differences".

I am awaiting that day, and see people discuss their upset about the band not being more upfront. When in fact, the fans do not need to know and the band has no obligation to inform the fans as to why.


It's only recently that Paul McCartney spoke about why the beatles broke up. 

[gzarruk]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

[cramx3]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

Backing tracks would really suck, this is just not the type of music that can get away with using backing tracks to replace a prominent member IMO.   I've got to think it is an option though because the band probably would rather tour with backing tracks than not tour at all.

[ariich]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

Backing tracks would really suck, this is just not the type of music that can get away with using backing tracks to replace a prominent member IMO.   I've got to think it is an option though because the band probably would rather tour with backing tracks than not tour at all.

They did have to use backing tracks for Hen's parts on one previous US tour, when there was some visa issue I think and he couldn't end up touring with them. I agree it's not desirable at all, but would be a last resort and there is some precedent for it.

[gmillerdrake]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

If they just stick to playing songs off of VIRUS they don't even need a keyboardist   

Of course I'm only (partially) kidding......I really dig HAKEN and their music but I can completely see how Diego could have been a bit peeved about essentially not even being on the last album. Whatever the reason....HAKEN IMO 'needs' a live keyboardist.....it's who they are and it'd feel weird being there live and not having that aspect of their music be visceral and in the moment.

[King Postwhore]

I saw them without Hen. They sounded great but a big piece of the puzzle was missing live.

[bosk1]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

[Elite]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time

[ariich]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

*smacks*

[GasparXR]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

I might go just for the opener (well not the actual opener, I don't know them, but the second opener. you get what I'm trying to say )

[jammindude]

Just heard Lambs by Trope on YT.

It's not bad. But man...these guys REALLY want to be a female fronted Tool. So badly.

[Fritzinger]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

If they just stick to playing songs off of VIRUS they don't even need a keyboardist   

Of course I'm only (partially) kidding......I really dig HAKEN and their music but I can completely see how Diego could have been a bit peeved about essentially not even being on the last album. Whatever the reason....HAKEN IMO 'needs' a live keyboardist.....it's who they are and it'd feel weird being there live and not having that aspect of their music be visceral and in the moment.

I don't think Diego being less present on Virus lead to him leaving. I think it was already on the horizon that they would part ways and he just contributed to one last album. But ended up putting less effort into his contribution.

[Fritzinger]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

*smacks*

I wouldn't dare to smack mighty boskaryus but man am I tempted.

[gmillerdrake]

However, what if it's not resolved by the time the tour starts?  I mean, I guess they still don't have to say something but when someone else (or no one) is playing keys, it'll be beyond obvious that just saying "Diego, for reasons we will not speak about, is no longer in the band" would really make things slightly less confusing for those who aren't following along.

That'd be quite a mess if they can't get it settled by then, since Diego will definitely not be there. They have a few options, though. Maybe Richard plays the keys, maybe they go the Periphery route and just have the keys play through the backing tracks and they only play the solo sections, maybe they get some touring keyboardist and say nothing...

If they just stick to playing songs off of VIRUS they don't even need a keyboardist   

Of course I'm only (partially) kidding......I really dig HAKEN and their music but I can completely see how Diego could have been a bit peeved about essentially not even being on the last album. Whatever the reason....HAKEN IMO 'needs' a live keyboardist.....it's who they are and it'd feel weird being there live and not having that aspect of their music be visceral and in the moment.

I don't think Diego being less present on Virus lead to him leaving. I think it was already on the horizon that they would part ways and he just contributed to one last album. But ended up putting less effort into his contribution.

I suppose someday we will know the reason(s) behind it all. Speculation is all we have at the moment.

[gzarruk]

Don't know anything about this sort of legal stuff, but what if they aren't allowed to bring in a full time replacement before having everything settled in?

[bosk1]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

*smacks*

I wouldn't dare to smack mighty boskaryus but man am I tempted.

  I can't stand Haken, but (1) I certainly can't begrudge anyone for liking them, and (2) it isn't for lack of trying.  Some may remember me posting awhile back that I was asked to review one of their albums.  I spun it relentlessly and tried to stay objective and find positive things I could say about it.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't like it, and didn't feel that I could review it without being pretty negative.  So I passed on the review altogether because I don't think it is helpful at all for fans or potential fans of the band to have someone who doesn't like them publicly reviewing their album.  They just aren't for me, and I'm fine acknowledging that.

EDIT:  And nothing against the band members and their abilities.  They can clearly play.  I watched video of one of the Shattered Fortress shows, and I thought they did a great job with the material.  I just don't like their songs. 

[ariich]

  I can't stand Haken, but (1) I certainly can't begrudge anyone for liking them, and (2) it isn't for lack of trying.  Some may remember me posting awhile back that I was asked to review one of their albums.  I spun it relentlessly and tried to stay objective and find positive things I could say about it.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't like it, and didn't feel that I could review it without being pretty negative.  So I passed on the review altogether because I don't think it is helpful at all for fans or potential fans of the band to have someone who doesn't like them publicly reviewing their album.  They just aren't for me, and I'm fine acknowledging that.

EDIT:  And nothing against the band members and their abilities.  They can clearly play.  I watched video of one of the Shattered Fortress shows, and I thought they did a great job with the material.  I just don't like their songs. 

I vaguely remember that, but don't remember which album. Do you happen to recall which one it was? Just curious as while there's something consistent about their music, each album is fairly different (except the latest two which were essentially a two-parter).

[gzarruk]

Haven't been to a show in a LONG time where I intentionally missed the opening act and showed up for just the headliner, but this may be the one.  I might just be able to cross SX off the bucket list at long last. 

*smacks*

I wouldn't dare to smack mighty boskaryus but man am I tempted.

  I can't stand Haken, but (1) I certainly can't begrudge anyone for liking them, and (2) it isn't for lack of trying.  Some may remember me posting awhile back that I was asked to review one of their albums.  I spun it relentlessly and tried to stay objective and find positive things I could say about it.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't like it, and didn't feel that I could review it without being pretty negative.  So I passed on the review altogether because I don't think it is helpful at all for fans or potential fans of the band to have someone who doesn't like them publicly reviewing their album.  They just aren't for me, and I'm fine acknowledging that.

EDIT:  And nothing against the band members and their abilities.  They can clearly play.  I watched video of one of the Shattered Fortress shows, and I thought they did a great job with the material.  I just don't like their songs.

I get you, Bosk. I completely lost all my interest in Haken's music after Virus and now only hang around this thread because of the Diego situation

[cramx3]

Well the last thing to potentially change your mind would be to see them live and if you do go for SX, I'd say it's still worth it to get there earlier and see Haken.  I feel like if you bought a ticket and make the effort to get to the venue, you might as well maximize that and at least see what they are about in person.  Lots of live performances have changed my opinion of bands.  Not always and it's no guarantee, but since it's part of a tour and not just going to see Haken, it's worth it IMO.

[bosk1]

  I can't stand Haken, but (1) I certainly can't begrudge anyone for liking them, and (2) it isn't for lack of trying.  Some may remember me posting awhile back that I was asked to review one of their albums.  I spun it relentlessly and tried to stay objective and find positive things I could say about it.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't like it, and didn't feel that I could review it without being pretty negative.  So I passed on the review altogether because I don't think it is helpful at all for fans or potential fans of the band to have someone who doesn't like them publicly reviewing their album.  They just aren't for me, and I'm fine acknowledging that.

EDIT:  And nothing against the band members and their abilities.  They can clearly play.  I watched video of one of the Shattered Fortress shows, and I thought they did a great job with the material.  I just don't like their songs. 

I vaguely remember that, but don't remember which album. Do you happen to recall which one it was? Just curious as while there's something consistent about their music, each album is fairly different (except the latest two which were essentially a two-parter).

I think it was Virus.  I had heard some of their songs previously and didn't care for them.  But I figured that having time to digest an entire album, I could probably find enough that I liked about it to be able to put together a somewhat-positive review.  But I just couldn't do it, and didn't want to do the band the disservice of having a pre-release negative review out there in the press.  It's one thing to debate about such things on a discussion forum.  But I wouldn't want to give them actual negative press that could hurt their livelihood or legitimately irritate their fan base.  That isn't cool. 

[ariich]

  I can't stand Haken, but (1) I certainly can't begrudge anyone for liking them, and (2) it isn't for lack of trying.  Some may remember me posting awhile back that I was asked to review one of their albums.  I spun it relentlessly and tried to stay objective and find positive things I could say about it.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't like it, and didn't feel that I could review it without being pretty negative.  So I passed on the review altogether because I don't think it is helpful at all for fans or potential fans of the band to have someone who doesn't like them publicly reviewing their album.  They just aren't for me, and I'm fine acknowledging that.

EDIT:  And nothing against the band members and their abilities.  They can clearly play.  I watched video of one of the Shattered Fortress shows, and I thought they did a great job with the material.  I just don't like their songs. 

I vaguely remember that, but don't remember which album. Do you happen to recall which one it was? Just curious as while there's something consistent about their music, each album is fairly different (except the latest two which were essentially a two-parter).

I think it was Virus.  I had heard some of their songs previously and didn't care for them.  But I figured that having time to digest an entire album, I could probably find enough that I liked about it to be able to put together a somewhat-positive review.  But I just couldn't do it, and didn't want to do the band the disservice of having a pre-release negative review out there in the press.  It's one thing to debate about such things on a discussion forum.  But I wouldn't want to give them actual negative press that could hurt their livelihood or legitimately irritate their fan base.  That isn't cool. 

Fair enough. Although I remember it being quite a while ago, so it's more likely it was Vector. That and Virus (the sequel) have been somewhat polarising even within the fanbase, so actually I don't think you'd have really rocked any boats. But very cool of you nonetheless.

If you do find yourself hearing any of their earlier albums (particularly The Mountain or Affinity) I'd be really interested to hear what you think, but given your reaction to Vector I completely appreciate you probably don't want to actively seek them out.

[bosk1]

Yeah, it was actually Vector.

[Elite]

Yeah, it was actually Vector.

Ah, their worst album.

[Revenge319]

Yeah, it was actually Vector.

Ah, their best album.

I know right?? 

[Buddyhunter1]

Vector and Virus (the sequel) have been somewhat polarising even within the fanbase

[ariich]

[Buddyhunter1]

Vector has Puzzle Box and Veil which are two of their best songs but the rest is very meh. Virus is very meh overall.

Affinity best (though even that has a few meh songs too).