Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

Started by Nick, October 31, 2014, 11:44:22 AM

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nobloodyname

#4970
Quote from: emtee on August 03, 2020, 01:15:09 PM
Such a great album. They really nailed it across the board. Complexity that is appealing. Tightness. Supreme sonic quality. Great solos. Inventive compositions. One of the best prog metal albums in recent years.

Never been a huge fan of Haken, admittedly, but I do agree with this.

I'd also add that the singer's voice finally feels like it fits the music.

Pettor

Same for me. Not a huge Haken fan but this albums really have become an entry to their sound. Maybe the other albums will start opening up somewhat now. Also agree with the singer. This fits better than what I heard previously.

Strangely it was the same with DT. I loved TOT initially and that's not my favourite album with them anymore (SDOIT :hat), but it worked as a entry to their sounds and discography. It was hard to understand DT initially, but the sound was so intriguing that I continued trying. SDOIT and SFAM took a long time to digest but being able to go back to TOT whenever I felt overwhelmed helped. I hope Virus / Vector will be the same for Haken.

me7


Pettor

Haha I am playing Affinity right now. Good album. Can't see it becoming an all time favourite, but who knows, maybe something is hiding there. The growl in The Architect is the most off-putting thing I heard since Mike in A Nightmare to Remember. Really liked the song and then that happened, whyyyyyyyyyy?!?!

Zydar

What do you think of the retro feel of 1985?

Mladen

I used to find it a bit dated back when the album came out, but it grew on me. Nowadays, I kind of like how much it reminds me of Images and words.

Pettor

1985 is nice. I can see some similarities to I&W that I like. It's light, joyous and melodic which are all traits I think prog bands should use more often :lol

Affinity in general feels quite vibrant which I like. Usually that means the keyboards has great emphasis and are using sounds that changes the landscapes of the songs. Need to digest The Architect, Red Giant and Bound by Gravity a bit more to get a better overall feeling about the record.

IDontNotDoThings

Re: Cockroach King

I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain (a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it). It wasn't until Vector/Virus that they turned him into an actual character with a backstory. That's my understanding anyway.

ariich

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 05, 2020, 04:22:17 AM
Re: Cockroach King

I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain (a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it). It wasn't until Vector/Virus that they turned him into an actual character with a backstory. That's my understanding anyway.
I'm not sure about capitalism, or indeed about drugs - but it can definitely be interpreted to specific issues like those. But certainly it's about greed and ambition. And I've said a couple of times before, that's the case for Vector/Virus as well. It has a more fleshed out story, naturally, because it's a two-part concept album and not a single song, but it's similarly metaphorical/allegorical as the original song. Being more fleshed out as a story also means it touches on other themes as well.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

me7

I always viewed it abstractly, but if I had to assign concrete meaning to it, I'd say it is a song about the temptation to stop investing time in prog dreams and turn into a full time cover band for weddings.
Y'know, to actually make money off of music.

FlyingBIZKIT

I feel like Virus is starting to grow on me a little bit, but I still can't say I'm loving it. It's got some fun qualities to it. MESSiah Complex is pretty good but definitely feels like a Shattered Fortress type mix-match to me. Which...isn't necessarily bad. ;) I'm a pretty big fan of jarring transitions in songs, hence why BTBAM is arguably my favorite band.

I think at the moment I still prefer Vector. Songs like Puzzle Box and Veil are better than anything on Virus, at least that's how I feel in this moment. That could change, though.

Didn't feel like going back through this whole thread. But is there anyone that considers Virus to be your favorite Haken album, despite it being so early? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts about why.

Pettor

I see Coackroach King and Vector / Virus kinda like Metropolis Part 1 and Scenes From a Memory. The song is kinda abstract and the CDs a fun interpretation, or possible story, using that concept. Vector/ Virus is more literal even if there's room for interpretation.

In programming Coackroach King would be an interface (maybe abstract class) and Vector / Virus an implementation  :\ .... ehrmmm.

cramx3

Quote from: me7 on August 05, 2020, 04:55:55 AM
I always viewed it abstractly, but if I had to assign concrete meaning to it, I'd say it is a song about the temptation to stop investing time in prog dreams and turn into a full time cover band for weddings.
Y'know, to actually make money off of music.

:lol

Progmetty

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 05, 2020, 04:22:17 AM
I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain

That was my impression on first listen as well. Chasing the capitalist dream and getting close enough to see the cruelness and merciless nature of it.
But then if you're a capitalist; you'd probably be able to see it as something else that fits your world view better and that's kinda the beauty of it all, being open to interpretations.

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on August 05, 2020, 04:22:17 AM
(a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it).

I'm not sure if it's specific to Roger Waters, but he calls these "thematic". Like DSOTM, WYWH & Animals, unlike The Wall which does have an actual plot.
It feels like The Path gives us an overview of what the album is about, pretty clearly too IMO.

QuoteThis life is a dream
A gift we receive
To live and to love
We forge The Path
Our nightmare in birth
Our struggle for worth
In vain we carry on
Our mission to become
Adapt to this world
It's a chance we must take
We'll sing our song
We'll play our hand

So, to me, this reads like all the topics the rest of the songs cover. Life is beautiful, we're meant to use it to give and receive love without being passive, but it's not that simple. There are immense challenges in the way of doing so, primarily; having to engage and adapt to the world without letting it drag us away from life's initial purpose (to give and receive love). So we try and give it our best shot, but there's also emphasis that luck plays a role.

Taking the time to go over the booklet a bunch of times over the last couple of days; I cannot help comparing this album to The Dark Side of The Moon, an album commonly described as being about "how everyday pressures of modern life can lead to madness", although I don't fully agree with that common assessment. Not the same exact theme as The Mountain, but as close as any other work would get to it, thematically that is.
And to stir the same emotions that DSOTM did to me, to even make your album comparable to DSOTM to me, is such a monumental fuckin achievement if I may say so. Fuckin bravo Haken.


Quote from: ariich on August 05, 2020, 04:30:13 AM
I'm not sure about capitalism

Quote from: ariich on August 05, 2020, 04:30:13 AM
But certainly it's about greed and ambition.

:neverusethis:

kirksnosehair

I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about  :lol


cramx3

Quote from: kirksnosehair on August 05, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about  :lol

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: cramx3 on August 05, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Quote from: kirksnosehair on August 05, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about  :lol

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

I don't care about it either, although it is fun to analyze it.



cramx3

Quote from: Ben_Jamin on August 05, 2020, 04:26:31 PM
Quote from: cramx3 on August 05, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Quote from: kirksnosehair on August 05, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about  :lol

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

I don't care about it either, although it is fun to analyze it.

I also really suck at poetry and the like so interpreting words has never been a strong suite for me.  I think it's fun to read other people's analysis though.  I enjoy the discussion.

Destiny Of Chaos

That was quick!

Haken - Messiah Complex - 8-Bit NES-style remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiF_IDewUbE

Crow

i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

Evermind

Quote from: Cyril on August 06, 2020, 10:08:05 AM
i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

B R A V O
   O
   S
   S
Quote from: Train of Naught on May 28, 2020, 10:57:25 PMThis first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

gzarruk

Quote from: Cyril on August 06, 2020, 10:08:05 AM
i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

Called it first:

Quote from: gzarruk on August 01, 2020, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: FlyingBIZKIT on August 01, 2020, 03:46:57 PM
Actually, it's all a trick. Diego is kicking everyone else out of Haken.

Plot twist: Diego is the Cockroach King.

:lol

Buddyhunter1


Crow

kevin moore is the good doctor, buddy, and diego was his pupil/protege

Buddyhunter1

Where does Mike Portnoy fit into this?

cramx3

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on August 06, 2020, 10:39:03 AM
Where does Mike Portnoy fit into this?

I literally was about to say this  :lol

Buddyhunter1

Maybe he's the protagonist of Falling Back To Earth :neverusethis:

me7

Mike Portnoy is the nurse that cries "Calling Dr. Rex to Cell block two".

Progmetty

Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.

me7

Mixed bag. They are not real remixes, but very aggressive remasters that try to sound like remixes. The intentions are good, but it sounds very artificial at times.

Max Kuehnau

Quote from: Progmetty on August 06, 2020, 12:11:58 PM
Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.
No, sounding worse actually IMHO. (Aquarius: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=haken&album=aquarius) (Visions: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=haken&album=visions)
All my natural instincts are begging me to stop
But somehow I carry on, heading for the top
A physical absurdity, a tremendous mental game
Helping me understand exactly who I am

cramx3

Quote from: Progmetty on August 06, 2020, 12:11:58 PM
Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.

If you think they sound fine, why bother?  I'm not a fan of remixes and remasters unless I really disliked the original, otherwise it just feels like a money grab.

me7

The loudness-war database entries don't do the remasters justice tough. The remasters are not just brickwalled as is often the case.

ariich

Yeah, I like the remasters - there's a tiny bit more punch to them. But it's not a significant difference. The other treat is the instrumental versions. But if you're not interested in those and happy with how the originals sound, not sure how much you'd get out of the reissues (assuming you own the originals already).

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

ariich

By the way, completely random but I was browsing through old parts of this thread to try and remind myself when Haken started getting to the stage of some fans not liking their new albums (the answer is essentially it happened a bit with The Mountain but really it started with Affinity - I guess Mountain was their breakthrough album that increased the size of their fanbase, so that's pretty natural), and I came across this gem:

Quote from: darkshade on March 04, 2016, 03:47:31 PM
You can't hate on a band's new album until their 6th album, AND they've been around for at least 10 years. That's the rock and roll rules.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.