Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Nick]

I love how someone created a new account to post this.

Looks like a solo album announcement.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah I wonder.  He didn't even introduce himself.

The original quote is from Diego's IG and is legit.

[Northern Lion]

I love how someone created a new account to post this.

Looks like a solo album announcement.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah I wonder.  He didn't even introduce himself.

The original quote is from Diego's IG and is legit.

I'm sure it's legit, it's just an odd first post.  But then again, what do I know .

[allewartenaufdaslicht_]

Sorry, I didn't create a new account, I am new to the forum. Did not know we do introducements here. I am from Germany and I like progressive music. Back to the discussion though:

Diego posted this on Facebook and Instagram today, I just can't seem to find the posts anymore. It seems he deleted them. Here is a screenshot of what it looked like:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Haken/comments/hs63s7/diego_tejeda_hinting_at_something_on_his_instagram/

Anyway I would be very much looking forward to a solo record and hope I interpreted to much into his statement. With 6 musical geniuses in a conglomerate like Haken, I can easily imagine there are differences of opinion when creating a new album. I have had the pleasure of listening to Virus in its entirety for a couple months now and I love everything about it. I hope Diego does too or at least wasn't dissatisfied with how it turned out...

[cramx3]

Ah this all makes sense seeing the actual post now.  Sounds like some Deigo music, not sure if I could say it has any meaning towards Haken though just because he mentions different sonic choices.  Those could be his own choices he initially made and now changed for whatever project this is. 

[Northern Lion]

Sorry, I didn't create a new account, I am new to the forum. Did not know we do introducements here. I am from Germany and I like progressive music. Back to the discussion though:

Diego posted this on Facebook and Instagram today, I just can't seem to find the posts anymore. It seems he deleted them. Here is a screenshot of what it looked like:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Haken/comments/hs63s7/diego_tejeda_hinting_at_something_on_his_instagram/

Anyway I would be very much looking forward to a solo record and hope I interpreted to much into his statement. With 6 musical geniuses in a conglomerate like Haken, I can easily imagine there are differences of opinion when creating a new album. I have had the pleasure of listening to Virus in its entirety for a couple months now and I love everything about it. I hope Diego does too or at least wasn't dissatisfied with how it turned out...

My apologies man.  Welcome to the forums!  If you like progressive music you are certainly in the right place 

Folks call me Lion or Brother Lion, what would you like to be called?

[KevShmev]

That Instagram post seems like Diego is talking about a solo album or a different project, not expressing any kind of bitterness about Haken.  That said, I perused through his FB and Twitter pages and he hasn't said a thing about Haken in a while.  You would think he would say something about his main band releasing a new studio album.  Granted, Ross Jennings posts a lot more often on his Twitter account and hasn't said a lot about it either lately outside of a post about a month ago about how much the delays sucked, but it's just an observation.

[allewartenaufdaslicht_]

My apologies man.  Welcome to the forums!  If you like progressive music you are certainly in the right place 

Folks call me Lion or Brother Lion, what would you like to be called?
[/quote]

Alright man thanks. Brother Lion it is. I am Marjeaux.

I heard a while back that the many delays for the launch of Virus were not exclusively due to the pandemic. Those were total rumours so pls don‘t quote me on it but back then I read that Diego and the band disagreed on some characteristics of the album. Which is completely understandable with 6 guys all taking part in the writing and recording equally... Anyway I hope they sort it out, if it is true in the first place.

On that note, considering the style change Haken have gone through since Affinity with the last two albums, where do you guys think they will move next, genre-wise? And what would you like to happen?

[Northern Lion]

I'm kinda hoping they move back toward the Direction they had with The Mountain.  Or at least something with a few more mellow areas.  Don't get ne wrong, I loved Vector and so far I love what I've heard of Virus, but that's a lot of heavy two albums in a row.

[allewartenaufdaslicht_]

I can relate to that. Vector was hard and restless, but when I heard Virus for the first time I had to laugh out loud several times because they really took it to another level. The sheer force, brutality and power this album comes across with makes it not easy for the listener to get into it right away, at least that's how it was for me. After 2 or 3 complete runs it really exploded for me and I've been listening to it on heavy rotation ever since.. But, not unlike Vector did before, Virus sacrificed some more of Hakens earlier melodic qualities in order to produce this heaviness. It seems to be where they wanna go right now. I will follow them anywhere of course but if I had the choice, I would love it if they gravitated towards jazzier, lighter and maybe more polyharmonic songs next. That would also give Ross the opportunity to really thrive if he didn't have to assert himself against this huge wall of sound the whole time. I don't know if this will ever happen though. Ever since Affninity, Rich Henshall stepped down from his place as solo-songwriter and Haken turned into a kind of multilateral think tank, coming up with so many great ideas that they seem to have a hard time fitting them all into their songs. I doubt that they will ever return to the (relatively) simple and breezy arrangements we know from their first 3 albums. It seems to me they are yet to reach their climax when it comes to speed, technical advancement and complexity...

Virus isn't even out yet so I don't wanna come across as ungrateful. Let's enjoy this album first but with Haken I always enjoy fantasizing where they could go next...

[RoeDent]

I can't help but think that Diego wouldn't have posted something that specific if he wasn't at least a little bit upset about the sonic choices made on said Haken track. I'm also curious whether he's referring to Clear or The Good Doctor as "the first track on Vector", because Clear *is* the first track on Vector even though it's an intro track.

[ariich]

He's definitely talking about Clear. His False Memories track is up on Spotify if you want to give it a listen. It's actually pretty cool, although musically it's not related to Clear at all apart from the wump wump at the start.

My guess, which is only speculation, is that he's produced something new based on an old demo that was discarded in favour of having the intro be based on a theme from Host. Haken do love their recurring themes, as we know.

[RoeDent]

Clear is based on Host? I never noticed that! I'll have to listen again.

[ariich]

Clear is based on Host? I never noticed that! I'll have to listen again.

Yeah, the "Where I end, you begin" etc bit.

[Elite]

Oh, I thought that was quite obvious. Haken do a lot of recurring themes, in songs, but also across albums.

[RoeDent]

Huh. I've genuinely never spotted that before. Tbh, if two occurrences of the same theme are in different keys or rhythmically different, I won't always notice them. For example, it took me years to figure out the famous idée fixe from Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique.

[me7]

Well, then Virus will keep you occupied for years, trying to spot all the nuggets.

[Buddyhunter1]

Clear is based on Host? I never noticed that! I'll have to listen again.

Me neither, but I blame Host for not being memorable enough.

[RoeDent]

This is the most promising sign I've seen that 24th July will be the final release date. https://twitter.com/Haken_Official/status/1284133957378936835

[Zydar]

And someone just posted on the official FB group Haken Haven that it has been shipped to him.

[KevShmev]

I can relate to that. Vector was hard and restless, but when I heard Virus for the first time I had to laugh out loud several times because they really took it to another level. The sheer force, brutality and power this album comes across with makes it not easy for the listener to get into it right away, at least that's how it was for me. After 2 or 3 complete runs it really exploded for me and I've been listening to it on heavy rotation ever since.. But, not unlike Vector did before, Virus sacrificed some more of Hakens earlier melodic qualities in order to produce this heaviness. It seems to be where they wanna go right now. I will follow them anywhere of course but if I had the choice, I would love it if they gravitated towards jazzier, lighter and maybe more polyharmonic songs next. That would also give Ross the opportunity to really thrive if he didn't have to assert himself against this huge wall of sound the whole time. I don't know if this will ever happen though. Ever since Affninity, Rich Henshall stepped down from his place as solo-songwriter and Haken turned into a kind of multilateral think tank, coming up with so many great ideas that they seem to have a hard time fitting them all into their songs. I doubt that they will ever return to the (relatively) simple and breezy arrangements we know from their first 3 albums. It seems to me they are yet to reach their climax when it comes to speed, technical advancement and complexity...

Virus isn't even out yet so I don't wanna come across as ungrateful. Let's enjoy this album first but with Haken I always enjoy fantasizing where they could go next...

Ugh, the first bolded is not what I wanted to hear.  I like Vector, but it definitely seemed like an album where melody took a back seat, while technique and complexity made themselves comfortable in the front seat, and if Virus is similar in that regard, the odds of me loving it are not great.

And to tie that into the second bolded, I fear that the band is so focused on improving their complexity, speed and playing that they are going to lose the plot when it comes to writing memorable melodies.  I hope I am wrong.

[jammindude]

+1 to everything Kev just said

[ariich]

I disagree quite strongly there's any sacrificing of melody. Melodic approach and heavy instrumentation/production are two entirely separate factors. The core sound/production is much the same as Vector because it's a direct sequel, it's a very melodic album too. Though I do agree that, like most Haken albums, it takes a few listens to really get into some of the melodic hooks, and if as a listener you're less inclined towards the heavy sound, it might not come across as immediately melodic in the way that, say, Affinity did.

[MinistroRaven]

agree

[ariich]

One other thing I'll add actually, for what it's worth. I do love Vector for it's punchiness, but I do agree that there's a bit less focus on big melodies. I mean, there are lots of really good hooks, but very few of those big glorious Haken choruses we love so much (the final section of Puzzle Box, the climax of Host... that might even be it). I don't feel it's less melodic, but there were fewer big cathartic melodic moments that we had loads of particularly on The Mountain and Affinity.

All that is to say that (while reiterating the point that like all Haken albums this one needs time to grow), as someone who has been lucky enough to listen to the album for quite a while, I think there are more of those big melodies again. The run of Invasion, Carousel, The Strain and Canary Yellow is all very melodic IMO, and Messiah Complex is bonkers in the same way that Visions (the song) was but does have some big melodic moments throughout it too. Even Prosthetic, which is the NBM-style "heavy and technical" track this time is a lot more melodic than that was.

[Buddyhunter1]

I mean, there are lots of really good hooks, but very few of those big glorious Haken choruses we love so much (the final section of Puzzle Box, the climax of Host... that might even be it).

Veil: "Am I a joke to you?"

[Evermind]

I've heard the album for a couple of times (10+) now, and I can say it is very much like Vector for me—in a sense that there is some of the best Haken material on it up to date, but there is also a few duds which bring the album down. It is definitely a grower; I wasn't all too fond of it during my first listen, but the songs continued to click with me and I think I still haven't discovered all this album has to offer.

I'll post my full thoughts when it's out, but there are a couple of things I can safely say right now and please keep in mind I'm a big Haken fan:

- for now, this album ranks the second worst for me, only topping Visions, but it's not because it's bad, it's because everything else the band released is very good
- Haken tends to write the songs that are difficult to digest, and before Virus, most of them were a big success with me. Somehow, I can't get into the two big tracks of this record
- my favourites from this record are The Strain and Invasion, and my other favourites are weirdly Canary Yellow and Only Stars
- the album absolutely flows better when you listen to it with Vector first. Magnificent job with the flow from the band, great idea and great execution

More spoilers below:

- the death metal tremolo-shred or whatever it's called in Carousel is fantastic. The song had awesome ideas but Ross' vocal melodies pretty much ruined it for me. More than ten listens and I still think the vocal melodies here suck.
- Messiah Complex feels like - I mean, alright, I'm probably wrong but that's how I feel - but it feels like the band wrote a couple of hooks before which later evolved into songs (Puzzle Box, Host/Clear) and then added another couple of hooks as gimmicks from their previous albums (CK, Shapeshifter), and then just filled in the gaps. It probably is my biggest disappointment from Haken since Crystallised. For the grand final of the two album suite, it feels lifeless, boring, it feels contrived and it feels like it was constructed to fill this role, and it doesn't work for me at all. Only Stars is a great finisher though.

I can't help but subconsciously compare Celestial Elixir to Messiah Complex and man, did the band know how to write an epic album closer back then.

[Evermind]

One other thing I'll add actually, for what it's worth. I do love Vector for it's punchiness, but I do agree that there's a bit less focus on big melodies. I mean, there are lots of really good hooks, but very few of those big glorious Haken choruses we love so much (the final section of Puzzle Box, the climax of Host... that might even be it). I don't feel it's less melodic, but there were fewer big cathartic melodic moments that we had loads of particularly on The Mountain and Affinity.

I absolutely disagree with this. I think Vector had by far the best choruses and some of the best melodies Haken came up with, except for maybe Aquarius. Every chorus on Vector is memorable and at least half of them are big as hell (Puzzle Box, Veil, Host, A Cell Divides).

[Northern Lion]

One other thing I'll add actually, for what it's worth. I do love Vector for it's punchiness, but I do agree that there's a bit less focus on big melodies. I mean, there are lots of really good hooks, but very few of those big glorious Haken choruses we love so much (the final section of Puzzle Box, the climax of Host... that might even be it). I don't feel it's less melodic, but there were fewer big cathartic melodic moments that we had loads of particularly on The Mountain and Affinity.

I absolutely disagree with this. I think Vector had by far the best choruses and some of the best melodies Haken came up with, except for maybe Aquarius. Every chorus on Vector is memorable and at least half of them are big as hell (Puzzle Box, Veil, Host, A Cell Divides).

I think the melodies on Vector are good as well, but I think Affinity takes the cake for great melodies in Haken's work.

[me7]

I too perceived Vector as less cathartic, it builds more pressure than it releases afterwards.

Stylistically, Virus feels to me like a middle ground between Affinity and Vector. If Vector/Virus were a double album, it would be among the most diverse and least bloated double albums out there.

[Northern Lion]

I too perceived Vector as less cathartic, it builds more pressure than it releases afterwards.

Stylistically, Virus feels to me like a middle ground between Affinity and Vector. If Vector/Virus were a double album, it would be among the most diverse and least bloated double albums out there.

If that's the case then you have just hightened my excitement for the albums release .

[ariich]

- the death metal tremolo-shred or whatever it's called in Carousel is fantastic. The song had awesome ideas but Ross' vocal melodies pretty much ruined it for me. More than ten listens and I still think the vocal melodies here suck.

Tastes are a funny thing as we seem to have the opposite reactions to these two songs. Well, ok I don't think Veil's melodies suck, but they're not among my favourite, whereas I love them on Carousel.

- Messiah Complex feels like - I mean, alright, I'm probably wrong but that's how I feel - but it feels like the band wrote a couple of hooks before which later evolved into songs (Puzzle Box, Host/Clear) and then added another couple of hooks as gimmicks from their previous albums (CK, Shapeshifter), and then just filled in the gaps. It probably is my biggest disappointment from Haken since Crystallised. For the grand final of the two album suite, it feels lifeless, boring, it feels contrived and it feels like it was constructed to fill this role, and it doesn't work for me at all.

I understand why you feel that way because of all the references, but I strongly disagree that they just filled in the gaps, because the main themes are entirely new.

It also jump around a lot, which is why from very early on I've been saying that it's more of a suite than a song. Each part is it's own thing with no link to the other parts (other than they all segue from one to the next) except the final part reprising the first part. It doesn't really have the structure of a song when taken all together - apart from the one reprise there aren't recurring themes, there isn't a build as such. Instead of a verse-chorus ABABCA structure, it's basically ABCDEA. They don't tend to do that these days - not since the Visions title track really. Anyway I'm going off on a tangent a bit - the suite is pretty mad and I can definitely see some people not really digging it, but I'm really enjoying it.

Only Stars is a great finisher though.

Yeah it's great, glad some others are appreciating it too!

I can't help but subconsciously compare Celestial Elixir to Messiah Complex and man, did the band know how to write an epic album closer back then.

Weird comparison, structurally the songs are nothing like each other. If anything Visions is a closer comparator in the way it works through lots of different unrelated ideas before eventually reprising the original theme. Celestial Elexir is a much more normal song structure.

I too perceived Vector as less cathartic, it builds more pressure than it releases afterwards.

Stylistically, Virus feels to me like a middle ground between Affinity and Vector. If Vector/Virus were a double album, it would be among the most diverse and least bloated double albums out there.

This is a great description. Vector is the build, Virus is the release.

[Evermind]

I agree that CE and Messiah Complex are very different in structure, but I mostly compared them as the long closers of their albums. Apparently Visions is really a better comparison, because I don't like Visions too.

[Elite]

Ya’ll in here talking like you already heard the album.

[RoeDent]

Yes. I thought leaks weren't allowed to be discussed here.

[Evermind]

You realise there are other ways to listen to the album besides downloading a leak, right?