Author Topic: Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)  (Read 441132 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4165 on: May 19, 2020, 03:17:51 PM »
Crystallized took some time to grow on me, but I feel it is one of their best songs now.  Not as great as Visions or Celestial Elixir when it comes to "sidelong epics," but still pretty great.  It flows really well and doesn't feel as long as it is, which is not always easy to pull off with a song that long.

Offline Revenge319

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4166 on: May 19, 2020, 11:24:31 PM »
I've done it, I've listened to all the Haken albums! Well, unless you count the demos from 2007-2008, in which case, I will probably get to them around the time that I finally take the time to listen to the Falling Into Infinity demos (so basically, it'll probably never happen). Well, anyway, the last album was Vector. I know I've said this for at least the past two albums, but I can see this one really growing on me. That being said, I quite like this album. All things considered, I think it left a stronger impression than Affinity initially did. I get the feeling my rankings for this one will be particularly controversial... so please feel free to prove me right or prove me wrong.

1. Nil By Mouth
2. Veil
3. Host
4. The Good Doctor
5. A Cell Divides
6. Puzzle Box
7. Clear

I've seen Nil By Mouth compared to The Dance of Eternity before... And after listening to it, I just have one thing to say:
Nil By Mouth is way better than The Dance of Eternity. OK, that's an exaggeration, I do really like The Dance of Eternity, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd actually say Nil By Mouth is the better song (even if I've only heard it once).

Well, now that I've listened to all the albums (and the Restoration EP), I'll give my album rankings as of right now:

1. The Mountain
2. Affinity
3. Aquarius
4. Vector
5. Visions
6. Restoration

I'm very excited for Virus, especially for Messiah Complex. With a title like that, my expectations might be a little too high, but I imagine I'll enjoy it on some level! I'm glad I finally decided to listen to Haken after all this time, every album they've put out is very good.

Offline Zydar

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4167 on: May 20, 2020, 12:00:20 AM »
Look at all this blasphemy. Crystallized is one of Haken's best songs.

I probably still have Celestial Elixir as my number one too, though.

This and this.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4168 on: May 20, 2020, 01:13:09 AM »
Here's my silly ranking for Vector:

1. Puzzle Box
2. A Cell Divides
3. Host
4. The Good Doctor
5. Nil by Mouth
6. Veil
(7. Clear)
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Offline LordCost

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4169 on: May 20, 2020, 02:11:54 AM »
I am not excited about Haken that much anymore, but I post my Vector ranking too.

1. Puzzle Box
2. Nil By Mouth
3. The Good Doctor
4. Host
5. A Cell Divides
6. Veil
7. Clear

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4170 on: May 20, 2020, 02:13:56 AM »
#1. Puzzle Box
#2. Host
#3. Veil
#4. A Cell Divides
#5. The Good Doctor
#6. Nil By Mouth
#7. Clear

I think this album is really underrated among people I talk to. I love it for how dense & hard-hitting it is, but Host is a beautiful contrast to the rest of the album & is imho one of Haken's most emotionally moving songs. That said, & I love all my top 5 songs from this album, & the order could change at any minute. Vector is so good & I'm so hyped for Virus being a sequel to it. :metal
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Offline krands85

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4171 on: May 20, 2020, 05:17:18 AM »
1. A Cell Divides
2. Puzzle Box

3. The Good Doctor
4. Veil
5. Nil By Mouth
6. Host

7. Clear

Positions 3-6 are all very closely matched, not a lot to choose between them. Pretty consistent album really, but still my least favourite of theirs.
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Online Evermind

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4172 on: May 20, 2020, 06:43:13 AM »
#1. Puzzle Box
#2. Host
#3. Veil
#4. A Cell Divides
#5. The Good Doctor
#6. Nil By Mouth
#7. Clear

This is pretty much my rating, although I think I might swap Nil by Mouth and Clear.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4173 on: May 20, 2020, 06:47:33 AM »
Can't decide between Puzzle Box and Host for my top 2.

1= Puzzle Box
1= Host
3. The Good Doctor
4. Veil
5. Nil By Mouth
6. A Cell Divides
7. Clear

Also, now that reviews are publishing so I can't spoil anything, I might put together some thoughts on Virus.

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Offline Nick

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4174 on: May 20, 2020, 09:56:00 AM »
Vector
1. The Good Doctor
2. Veil
3. Nil By Mouth
4. Puzzle Box
5. A Cell Divides
6. Clear
7. Host

A Cell Divides would have likely been higher prior to seeing it live, just wasn't as good in that setting as it was on the album.

Albums
1. The Mountain
2. Aquarius
2. Virus
4. Affinity
4. Vector
6. Visions
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4175 on: May 20, 2020, 10:09:26 AM »
Invasion, coming this Friday!

-Marc.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4176 on: May 20, 2020, 10:19:53 AM »
Invasion, coming this Friday!

-Marc.
Nice, my favourite on the album and one of my favourite Haken songs already.

Ranking Virus is actually quite hard because, similar to The Mountain and Affinity, it works so well as an album and each song brings something a bit different. I didn't feel this way at the start, I think because the general sound is a clear follow-on from Vector, but over time the album has grown on me more and more, and I now understand why they've been describing it as eclectic. While it's not my favourite Haken album, I do actually think it's their most consistent (for my tastes anyway).

I can probably choose a top 3, which I think would be:

1. Invasion
2. The Strain
3. Messiah Complex

Everything else I like pretty equally, and that's a lot.

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Offline Heretic

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4177 on: May 20, 2020, 10:49:06 AM »
RE: The Crystallized discussion -- it's one of my favorite Haken tracks for sure, but I understand the criticism of the meandering nature of the song. It definitely isn't as cohesive as some of their other works, but I just absolutely adore so many different sections - the intro, the a capella section, the reprise at the end that segues into the beautiful melodic close... an example of the individual pieces being greater than the sum of their parts, but still an awesome song overall.

Also, jammindude, we share the same favorite Haken moment. Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.


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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4178 on: May 20, 2020, 11:23:54 AM »
Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.

When is the key change? I'm not very good with musical terminology...

Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4179 on: May 20, 2020, 11:55:49 AM »
Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.

When is the key change? I'm not very good with musical terminology...

That moment when they repeat the chorus and the vocals remain the the same key, and the music switches down a key...thus changing the harmony completely. Brilliant moment.

Are there other examples of this in prog rock/metal that I just never noticed before? Because it’s extremely effective at inducing goosebumps.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4180 on: May 20, 2020, 12:20:51 PM »
Invasion, coming this Friday!

-Marc.
Nice, my favourite on the album and one of my favourite Haken songs already.

Ranking Virus is actually quite hard because, similar to The Mountain and Affinity, it works so well as an album and each song brings something a bit different. I didn't feel this way at the start, I think because the general sound is a clear follow-on from Vector, but over time the album has grown on me more and more, and I now understand why they've been describing it as eclectic. While it's not my favourite Haken album, I do actually think it's their most consistent (for my tastes anyway).

I can probably choose a top 3, which I think would be:

1. Invasion
2. The Strain
3. Messiah Complex

Everything else I like pretty equally, and that's a lot.

I know Carousel is my favorite, but after that it gets tougher. The Strain is probably #2.
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4181 on: May 20, 2020, 12:58:14 PM »
Single no. 3 will be released this Friday and it will apparently be Invasion, see here:https://www.facebook.com/102787549743/posts/10158582572794744?sfns=mo
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4182 on: May 20, 2020, 01:24:16 PM »
Single no. 3 will be released this Friday and it will apparently be Invasion, see here:https://www.facebook.com/102787549743/posts/10158582572794744?sfns=mo

Invasion, coming this Friday!

-Marc.

;)

Looking forward to this! New Haken single and Rise Radiant by Caligula's Horse on the same day, gonna be a good Friday for sure
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Offline Northern Lion

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4183 on: May 20, 2020, 01:47:07 PM »
Single no. 3 will be released this Friday and it will apparently be Invasion, see here:https://www.facebook.com/102787549743/posts/10158582572794744?sfns=mo

Can't wait!  I've really liked the last two singles and considering this one seems to be getting high praise from those who have already heard it, I'm extra excited. :metal
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4184 on: May 20, 2020, 02:06:20 PM »
Single no. 3 will be released this Friday and it will apparently be Invasion, see here:https://www.facebook.com/102787549743/posts/10158582572794744?sfns=mo

Can't wait!  I've really liked the last two singles and considering this one seems to be getting high praise from those who have already heard it, I'm extra excited. :metal
I'm neutral about it. (or not emotional anyway)
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Offline Elite

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4185 on: May 20, 2020, 02:15:39 PM »
Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.

When is the key change? I'm not very good with musical terminology...

That moment when they repeat the chorus and the vocals remain the the same key, and the music switches down a key...thus changing the harmony completely. Brilliant moment.

Are there other examples of this in prog rock/metal that I just never noticed before? Because it’s extremely effective at inducing goosebumps.

Okay, so I was really scratching my head over this since I never heard a really prominent key change in this track at all. I'm assuming you mean the final section of the song where they go
'Will we live to tell the tale?
Is it worth the price we paid?
Are we praying for the sun?
Or are we drowning in the flood?'

So I specifically went out of my way to analyse what is happening there and I don't think you could theoretically call this a key change at all, but it does work. Sorry for maybe coming off as an ass, but I wanted to check it out, so here goes:

What's happening is in the first repetition of the lines (sung the exact same way every time on   G#-F#G#-F#-G#-A  - G#), the chords underneath the vocals alternate between A major and F# minor, last word of every line hitting that 9th (G#) of the F# minor. Then when the backing vocals go 'Drowning in the Flood' after the first repetition the chords change to C# major, A major, C# major and F# minor (repeated twice). The vocal melody stays the same because it works fine, the G# now becomes a major 7th over A major chord and stays a ninth on the F# minor.

In chord symbols it would look like this:

A | F#m | A | F#m  (x2 for first repetition)
C# | A | C# | F#m (x2 for second repetition of lyrics)
A | F#m | C# | C# (coda)

And this works, because the chords in the second repetition are a third apart from the chords in the first one. Technically, all of this could be analysed as being in F# minor, with the A being the relative major of that key and the C# the dominant chord.

But yeah, it's a cool switch there nonetheless :)

EDIT Addition: But yes, I can also understand why one could hear this as a key change, because you theoretically analyse the first half as being in A major, with chords alternating between the I and the vi chord, but the second part is so clearly in F# minor, so from a theoretical standpoint I think personally it would make more sense to view both parts as being in F#m, but hey. The chord switch works, who cares about the background and the why, right?

« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 02:21:17 PM by Elite »
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4186 on: May 20, 2020, 03:58:59 PM »
Actually, that was a really cool explanation! Thank you! You even acknowledge how it could sound like a “key change” to the layman, but the explanation of how it’s technically not is kinda interesting.

 :tup
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Offline Northern Lion

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4187 on: May 20, 2020, 06:08:18 PM »
Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.

When is the key change? I'm not very good with musical terminology...

That moment when they repeat the chorus and the vocals remain the the same key, and the music switches down a key...thus changing the harmony completely. Brilliant moment.

Are there other examples of this in prog rock/metal that I just never noticed before? Because it’s extremely effective at inducing goosebumps.

Okay, so I was really scratching my head over this since I never heard a really prominent key change in this track at all. I'm assuming you mean the final section of the song where they go
'Will we live to tell the tale?
Is it worth the price we paid?
Are we praying for the sun?
Or are we drowning in the flood?'

So I specifically went out of my way to analyse what is happening there and I don't think you could theoretically call this a key change at all, but it does work. Sorry for maybe coming off as an ass, but I wanted to check it out, so here goes:

What's happening is in the first repetition of the lines (sung the exact same way every time on   G#-F#G#-F#-G#-A  - G#), the chords underneath the vocals alternate between A major and F# minor, last word of every line hitting that 9th (G#) of the F# minor. Then when the backing vocals go 'Drowning in the Flood' after the first repetition the chords change to C# major, A major, C# major and F# minor (repeated twice). The vocal melody stays the same because it works fine, the G# now becomes a major 7th over A major chord and stays a ninth on the F# minor.

In chord symbols it would look like this:

A | F#m | A | F#m  (x2 for first repetition)
C# | A | C# | F#m (x2 for second repetition of lyrics)
A | F#m | C# | C# (coda)

And this works, because the chords in the second repetition are a third apart from the chords in the first one. Technically, all of this could be analysed as being in F# minor, with the A being the relative major of that key and the C# the dominant chord.

But yeah, it's a cool switch there nonetheless :)

EDIT Addition: But yes, I can also understand why one could hear this as a key change, because you theoretically analyse the first half as being in A major, with chords alternating between the I and the vi chord, but the second part is so clearly in F# minor, so from a theoretical standpoint I think personally it would make more sense to view both parts as being in F#m, but hey. The chord switch works, who cares about the background and the why, right?

I love the breakdown!  Now I want to go back and listen to the song again.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4188 on: May 21, 2020, 03:26:12 AM »
Drowning in the Flood's key change is just something else.

When is the key change? I'm not very good with musical terminology...

That moment when they repeat the chorus and the vocals remain the the same key, and the music switches down a key...thus changing the harmony completely. Brilliant moment.

Are there other examples of this in prog rock/metal that I just never noticed before? Because it’s extremely effective at inducing goosebumps.

Not the same thing harmonically, but I feel a similar thing during Big Big Train's The Transit Of Venus Across The Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvfTO-mErzM

I love that one theme is introduced in 4:25, slowly building up tension. Then, at 4:55, over the same chord progressions, a different theme is introduced. And then, at 5:15, the same vocal line is put into another harmonic context, and suddenly the sun is coming up. It's just brilliantly composed in my opinion, and it gives me goosebumps every time.

Also, this is a live performance. How good is this band? Okay, I'm done with my off topic now  :biggrin:
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Offline Zydar

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4189 on: May 21, 2020, 07:49:51 AM »
Apparently they've changed the release date to June 19.

https://burningshed.com/tag/Virus&filter_category_id=261


FYI that's the same day my vacation starts  :P
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4190 on: May 21, 2020, 07:56:57 AM »
Apparently they've changed the release date to June 19.

https://burningshed.com/tag/Virus&filter_category_id=261


FYI that's the same day my vacation starts  :P

Yeah, I just saw an email from Burningshed about it...

Quote
Hi
 
Thanks for your order.
 
We are sorry to say that the release date for this album has been put back to June 19th 2020.
 
We apologise for any inconvenience.
 
Kind Regards
 
 
Pete

Kind of bummed about it, but I guess it can't be helped.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 08:16:23 AM by The Letter M »
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Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4191 on: May 21, 2020, 08:05:38 AM »
Do we know if the digital versions have been pushed back too?
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4192 on: May 21, 2020, 08:16:50 AM »
Do we know if the digital versions have been pushed back too?
not as per Itunes and Amazon (and btw, I just checked both Amazon.de and my dealer of choice and the release date didn't change)
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Offline ariich

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4193 on: May 21, 2020, 09:02:27 AM »
Has it changed anywhere else other than Burning Shed?

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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4194 on: May 21, 2020, 09:56:25 AM »
Has it changed anywhere else other than Burning Shed?

I just checked Laser CD and Century Media and both stores still list it as a June 5th street date, so either they haven't updated their pages yet, or they're still releasing at the original date. If the latter is true, I doubt it's an issue with InsideOut and the Mediabook version, because Laser CD still lists the Mediabook version (typically the version that InsideOut Europe gets) as being released on June 5th, along with the digipak version.

So maybe this is just a Burningshed thing? If so, it kind of bums me out because that's where I placed my order because I wanted to be sure to get the Mediabook (so it'll match my copy of Vector). It'd be cool if they could provide a digital download on June 5th if the delay is solely on them and no one else, especially since it probably won't reach my mailbox til near the end of June given the shipping from the UK and how slow postal services have been for transit over the last couple of months.

-Marc.
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Offline me7

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4195 on: May 21, 2020, 10:38:38 AM »
Prosthetic left me quite cold, but Canary Yellow and Invasion are impressive.

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4196 on: May 21, 2020, 10:40:44 AM »
Has it changed anywhere else other than Burning Shed?

I just checked Laser CD and Century Media and both stores still list it as a June 5th street date, so either they haven't updated their pages yet, or they're still releasing at the original date. If the latter is true, I doubt it's an issue with InsideOut and the Mediabook version, because Laser CD still lists the Mediabook version (typically the version that InsideOut Europe gets) as being released on June 5th, along with the digipak version.

So maybe this is just a Burningshed thing? If so, it kind of bums me out because that's where I placed my order because I wanted to be sure to get the Mediabook (so it'll match my copy of Vector). It'd be cool if they could provide a digital download on June 5th if the delay is solely on them and no one else, especially since it probably won't reach my mailbox til near the end of June given the shipping from the UK and how slow postal services have been for transit over the last couple of months.

-Marc.
It would be weird if the actual release date had changed but neither the band nor label had said anything about it.

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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4197 on: May 21, 2020, 10:51:34 AM »
Has it changed anywhere else other than Burning Shed?

I just checked Laser CD and Century Media and both stores still list it as a June 5th street date, so either they haven't updated their pages yet, or they're still releasing at the original date. If the latter is true, I doubt it's an issue with InsideOut and the Mediabook version, because Laser CD still lists the Mediabook version (typically the version that InsideOut Europe gets) as being released on June 5th, along with the digipak version.

So maybe this is just a Burningshed thing? If so, it kind of bums me out because that's where I placed my order because I wanted to be sure to get the Mediabook (so it'll match my copy of Vector). It'd be cool if they could provide a digital download on June 5th if the delay is solely on them and no one else, especially since it probably won't reach my mailbox til near the end of June given the shipping from the UK and how slow postal services have been for transit over the last couple of months.

-Marc.
It would be weird if the actual release date had changed but neither the band nor label had said anything about it.

I agree, which is why I am thinking this is a Burningshed issue ONLY, as I haven't seen any announcement or changes from any other retailers, the band, or the label about it.

-Marc.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4198 on: May 21, 2020, 11:27:35 AM »
I just preordered from their official Facebook page which takes you to Omerch and their release date is the 19th. Maybe other sites haven’t had the chance to update yet?
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4199 on: May 21, 2020, 04:08:05 PM »
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