Author Topic: Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)  (Read 437281 times)

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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3990 on: April 05, 2020, 10:43:11 AM »
Instead of listening to the single, Vector has been playing for a few days now and I still absolutely love it. I don't understand why so many people criticise it. To me, it's far superior to f.e. Visions. Probably my second favourite Haken album, closely after Affinity.

In particular, I absolutely love Nil By Mouth. Showcases what a machine of a band Haken is. Especially Ray Hearne. For example, I love how the last theme is introduced quietly, then the band sets in, but Ray plays a very open/broken rhythm for two full rounds of the theme, until he finally breaks the tension and the whole band explodes into one final run-through of the theme. It took me so many times to figure out that this is a 17/16 to 4/4 polyrhythm. It pops into my head very often, even when I'm not in a Haken-binge phase.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3991 on: April 05, 2020, 11:02:17 AM »
I like Nil by Mouth, but to make a DT comparison, it's a little too much Dance of Eternity.  In other words, it tilts way too far to the technical side.  Haken, like DT, is at their best when there is a good balance of melody and technical skill.  And if they are going to tilt too far to one side, I prefer the melodic side, which is why I will take songs like Host, Deathless and Somebody (all melodic gems) over a technical showcase like Nil by Mouth every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3992 on: April 05, 2020, 01:43:41 PM »
I like Nil by Mouth, but to make a DT comparison, it's a little too much Dance of Eternity.  In other words, it tilts way too far to the technical side.  Haken, like DT, is at their best when there is a good balance of melody and technical skill.  And if they are going to tilt too far to one side, I prefer the melodic side, which is why I will take songs like Host, Deathless and Somebody (all melodic gems) over a technical showcase like Nil by Mouth every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

SO MUCH OF THIS!

That's not to say I don't appreciate the technical side.  One of the reasons I love Falling Back to Earth so much is because the first half of the song tends to showcase their technical side, and then the second half of the song we get that BRILLIANT harmonious "groove" riff with Ross' vocals that really highlight the harmonies.    It's all of what makes Haken so amazing in a single track. 
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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3993 on: April 05, 2020, 02:00:43 PM »
Just listened to the new single.  WOW... pretty damn heavy!  Love it.  Looking forward to the album release and I'm assuming they chose the name of the album prior to the madness.  Sure hope it doesn't give them bad optics.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3994 on: April 05, 2020, 09:13:48 PM »


SO MUCH OF THIS!

That's not to say I don't appreciate the technical side.  One of the reasons I love Falling Back to Earth so much is because the first half of the song tends to showcase their technical side, and then the second half of the song we get that BRILLIANT harmonious "groove" riff with Ross' vocals that really highlight the harmonies.    It's all of what makes Haken so amazing in a single track.

I don't rate Falling Back to Earth quite as high as many Haken fans do (still a borderline top 10 Haken song for me), but I agree that it does a great job of showing off all sides of the band.   :tup :tup

Offline GasparXR

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3995 on: April 05, 2020, 11:15:06 PM »
I like Nil by Mouth, but to make a DT comparison, it's a little too much Dance of Eternity.  In other words, it tilts way too far to the technical side.  Haken, like DT, is at their best when there is a good balance of melody and technical skill.  And if they are going to tilt too far to one side, I prefer the melodic side, which is why I will take songs like Host, Deathless and Somebody (all melodic gems) over a technical showcase like Nil by Mouth every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Agree with all of this as well! Both Haken and DT share that ability to use their technicality in a way that suits the emotion and tension in a song, but there have been a couple moments where I feel it veers too far into the "wankery" for lack of a better term. That stuff is still very fun in a live setting, and in those instances there can be a lot of emotion coming from that, but just listening to the studio version, it's more like "neat, they can play really fast  :lol )

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3996 on: April 06, 2020, 12:30:03 AM »
They strike the balance right nearly every other time. Nil by Mouth is one song in which they absolutely can (and do) show off their technical ability, and it's brilliant for that! For me it's absolutely the most thrilling song on Vector. I love Good Doctor, Puzzle Box and Veil, but for different reasons.

Now for what I was originally going to post:

I just realized that Virus is the first Haken album where track 1 is a proper song (not just an intro) since Aquarius. Going backwards, we had Clear and affinity.exe, then The Path, and even though Premonition is 4 minutes, it's essentially an overture/preview of Visions, the closing epic.

Offline DTA

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3997 on: April 06, 2020, 09:24:06 AM »
They strike the balance right nearly every other time. Nil by Mouth is one song in which they absolutely can (and do) show off their technical ability, and it's brilliant for that! For me it's absolutely the most thrilling song on Vector. I love Good Doctor, Puzzle Box and Veil, but for different reasons.


Same. I'm not really a huge fan of overly technical music, and Nil By Mouth is easily my favorite song on Vector. There's still a lot of atmosphere in the track so it's not just a barrage of notes.

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3998 on: April 06, 2020, 12:22:33 PM »
Prosthetic fuckin rips! I really love the effects they put on Ross's voice during the verses.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #3999 on: April 06, 2020, 01:07:49 PM »
I really like Prosthetic, but I remain patiently waiting for new Nova Collective.
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4000 on: April 07, 2020, 09:41:53 AM »
@goo goo
Not sure if it matters.... But I had ordered a cool Mountain shirt a few years ago and when it arrived I found that the XL fit like a medium. I couldn't even get it on😤
I gave it to my daughter and she wears it to school!
Don't know if it's the same manufacturer so I guess it's a crapshoot.

I'm on the same boat. I have two Haken shirts size L and XL and can't used them. So I guess I'll shoot for the XXL and see if those fit better.

Stupid question here: if my measured chest size is 46 inch (XL), would I need to select a bigger shirt size (xxl)?

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4001 on: April 07, 2020, 10:13:17 AM »
The following is just an idea of mine (and I'm not a fan of Haken. Yet. It may happen at some point): Would anyone here have liked for Vector and Virus to entirely be released this year and for it to be a real double album ? (and then having to wait 4 years between Affinity and the present day in the process) I would have. (but that's because I find it strange to do separate releases)
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4002 on: April 07, 2020, 10:22:29 AM »
I've listened the hell out of Vector (and I still listen to it somewhat regularly) and saw them on tour for Vector for the first time, so no, I wouldn't change a thing.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4003 on: April 07, 2020, 11:11:26 AM »
The following is just an idea of mine (and I'm not a fan of Haken. Yet. It may happen at some point): Would anyone here have liked for Vector and Virus to entirely be released this year and for it to be a real double album ? (and then having to wait 4 years between Affinity and the present day in the process) I would have. (but that's because I find it strange to do separate releases)

I like the idea of it being a sequel rather than the second-half of a double album, like Pain Of Salvation's Road Salt or Ayreon's Universal Migrator. Haken may have started the writing process for both around the same time, but they obviously had planned to release them apart from each other, which I think was a good idea, to allow fans to digest the first part well enough before giving us the second part. Honestly, though, I need to start spinning Vector again because it's been awhile since I've listened to it, and with Virus due out in less than 2 months, I should really re-familiarize myself with it!

Also, releasing them separately means that the eventual performance of both albums back-to-back will make it an extra special concert (whenever that happens). I hope they do it a couple of times, and record it for audio and video release. It'd be one hell of a show, but I'm sure the encore set would be full of classic stuff, though I'm sure given its connection to Virus (and Vector), "Cockroach King" would definitely be a part of that show's encore set.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 11:17:20 AM by The Letter M »
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4004 on: April 07, 2020, 11:49:51 AM »
I'm excited for this release, I don't even mind the concept, but I hate that it's tied to The Cockroach King.   It almost ruins that song for me. 

My interpretation of CK from my first listen was that the Cockroach King was self delusion.   Turning him into an actual person with a 2 album concept is....meh.   It's like when they turn "John Harrison" into Kahn.    It would have been better if the new villain would have been kept separate from the old villain. 
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4005 on: April 07, 2020, 12:12:18 PM »
I'm excited for this release, I don't even mind the concept, but I hate that it's tied to The Cockroach King.   It almost ruins that song for me. 

My interpretation of CK from my first listen was that the Cockroach King was self delusion.   Turning him into an actual person with a 2 album concept is....meh.   It's like when they turn "John Harrison" into Kahn.    It would have been better if the new villain would have been kept separate from the old villain.

It's the King of Delusion. The new album features all the members of Sons of Apollo.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online hefdaddy42

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4006 on: April 07, 2020, 12:27:18 PM »
Would anyone here have liked for Vector and Virus to entirely be released this year and for it to be a real double album ?
Not me.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4007 on: April 07, 2020, 02:15:06 PM »
Turning him into an actual person with a 2 album concept is....meh.
Except that, exactly like Cockroach King, Vector is on the surface a story about real events but is metaphorical/allegorical/whatevorical underneath.

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4008 on: April 07, 2020, 03:03:28 PM »
But has anyone ever figured abut what it's really about then? (Both CK and Vector)
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4009 on: April 07, 2020, 03:24:50 PM »
But has anyone ever figured abut what it's really about then? (Both CK and Vector)

My interpretation of CK from my first listen was that the Cockroach King was self delusion. 

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
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Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4010 on: April 07, 2020, 04:19:43 PM »
Wait... Cockroach King and Vector / Virus are linked?


Mind = blown.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline mike099

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4011 on: April 07, 2020, 04:44:39 PM »
@goo goo
Not sure if it matters.... But I had ordered a cool Mountain shirt a few years ago and when it arrived I found that the XL fit like a medium. I couldn't even get it on😤
I gave it to my daughter and she wears it to school!
Don't know if it's the same manufacturer so I guess it's a crapshoot.

I would get the XXL.  Better a bit large than too tight

I'm on the same boat. I have two Haken shirts size L and XL and can't used them. So I guess I'll shoot for the XXL and see if those fit better.

Stupid question here: if my measured chest size is 46 inch (XL), would I need to select a bigger shirt size (xxl)?

I would get the XXL
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Offline mike099

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4012 on: April 07, 2020, 04:51:04 PM »
After I heard the new album title I automatically thought of Covid 19 then ‘Host’ from Vector.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4013 on: April 10, 2020, 04:27:53 PM »
I've been interested in giving Haken a shot for a while, mostly because they're highly praised and compared to Dream Theater a lot. What would be some good songs to start out with?

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4014 on: April 10, 2020, 04:35:22 PM »
I've been interested in giving Haken a shot for a while, mostly because they're highly praised and compared to Dream Theater a lot. What would be some good songs to start out with?

Falling Back to Earth is very DTish IMO and really good song.  But you can really just start with the new single IMO.  Most will say The Mountain is their best album (Falling Back to Earth is from that album).  I think Visions is the most DT like and maybe why I like it the most, but they don't have a bad album so that's why I think you can kind of start with wherever. 

Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4015 on: April 10, 2020, 05:16:58 PM »
I think Visions is the best place to start for any DT fan.   It's virtually an homage to SFAM, from the story, right down to the songs.  I think I even hear an intentional recreation of the notes from the SFAM overture in at least one spot.   I don't mean any of this in a bad way.   I think it's brilliant. 

But after mirroring their DT heroes to perfection, they definitely became their own "thing" with The Mountain.
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4016 on: April 10, 2020, 05:22:19 PM »
Speaking of DT and Haken, I watched/listened to some of their live chat the other day and I don't remember who said it, but they were asked about their favorite DT album and most said Awake or SFAM but one of them (this is who I forget) said ToT was becoming one of their favorites more recently.  Since others here have mentioned their newer heavier stuff being influenced by some of the heavier DT stuff, that's some good supporting evidence if ToT has been getting listens by them.

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4017 on: April 11, 2020, 01:55:18 AM »
I've been interested in giving Haken a shot for a while, mostly because they're highly praised and compared to Dream Theater a lot. What would be some good songs to start out with?

I'd start from the beginning, with Aquarius and go forward chronologically. As a DT Fan, I heard Aquarius the first time back in 2010 and I was a fan after 4 seconds and never looked back.

Also, this way you can follow the changes they've gone through.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4018 on: April 11, 2020, 03:08:02 AM »
Yep. Haken is one of the bands that starting from the debut and moving forwards chronologically is the best way to discover them.

Offline Zydar

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4019 on: April 11, 2020, 03:29:32 AM »
I've been on kind of a Haken period these last few days. I listened through The Mountain last night for the first time in a while, and it just confirmed for me that it's a masterpiece of an album.

1. The Mountain
2. Aquarius
3. Affinity
4. Vector
5. Visions
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4020 on: April 11, 2020, 03:54:54 AM »
1. Visions
2. Affinity
3. The Mountain
4. Vector
5. Aquarius

But all of them are really good, although I'm still not very fond of the vocals.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4021 on: April 11, 2020, 04:00:03 AM »
1. Aquarius
2. The Mountain
3. Vector
4. Visions
5. Affinity

Offline Nick

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4022 on: April 11, 2020, 06:55:48 AM »
The Mountain > Aquarius > Affinity = Vector > Visions
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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4023 on: April 11, 2020, 08:00:48 AM »
Affinity
The Mountain
-these two are really close-

Vector
Visions
Aquarius

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Virus (June 5th)
« Reply #4024 on: April 11, 2020, 08:06:54 AM »
It is tough for me to rate Visions too low, but I guess I look at this way:

Tracks 3-6 from that record (and track 1) are all good, but they are songs I all merely like; I don't consider any of them essential.

On the flip side, the title track and Deathless are two of their best songs IMO (both would be in my top 6-7 probably), and they take up over 30 minutes of the total 71 minutes.  Throw in Nocturnal Conspiracy, which is damn good and pretty essential, and you now have 43 minutes of 71 being essential. 

Ultimately, I might give it the slight edge over Affinity for 3rd place since it has more essential minutes (Affinity has probably three essential tunes in my book, which take up less than 25 minutes), plus it doesn't have any throwaways like Affinity does in Initiate.  I do think most of the songs on Affinity, though, aside from Initiate, are better than every song on Visions except for the title track, Deathless and Nocturnal Conspiracy.

The Mountain and Aquarius are the obvious 1a and 1b, if you ask me.