Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Lethean]

The cellist touring with Leprous is most likely Raphael Weinroth-Browne. He played cello on the Leprous albums Coal and Malina.

That's him, but he wasn't on Coal.  Just Malina.

[DTA]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous' drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

[Fritzinger]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous'Haken's drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

Sorry, I had to.

[DTA]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous'Haken's drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

Sorry, I had to.

Ray is unreal as well! Affinity is easily in my top 3 recorded drum performances ever. But to my ears, Baard is doing shit that is on a whole other rhythmically complex level.

[frogprog]

Philly show was great last night. After seeing Haken 5 times i can say they just keep getting better. Everybody was on point but I would have to say Ray was ON FIRE!! Man, I thought his arms and legs were going to go flying off ,he was drumming with such measured spasticity some times! The stage was pretty small so the guys were somewhat cramped in their movements but boy did they rock the house. I also had the added bonus of reuniting with my old guitarist who i haven't seen in probably 5 or 6 years. It was his first Haken show and I know he was floored so it just made the evening that much more special. Thanks Lads, see you again soon!

[KevShmev]

Nil by Mouth definitely seems like their Dance of Eternity: A technical, syncopated mathematical exercise that will undoubtedly wow fans with the skill it takes to perform a song like that, but one severely lacking in melody. To me, the best full band prog instrumentals (featuring bands of players) are always almost the ones that do a great job of balancing melody and chops, like Erotomania (DT) or La Villa Strangiato (Rush), and, for me, Nil By Mouth tilts way too far to the side of chops at the (largely) absence of melody.

[Nachtmerrie]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous' drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

Second that, Baard is amazing!

[gzarruk]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous' drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

Second that, Baard is amazing!

Indeed. His playing is the only reason I’m considering to give Leprous a chance (never cared for them before). Without derailing the thread too much, which Leprous songs do yo recommend me that have great drumming from Baard?

[cramx3]

Leprous drummer is pretty cool from what I've been listening to during my discovery of them over the last couple of weeks.  Looking forward to the NYC show tonight  I don't see many youtube videos out yet so seems like a good opportunity to capture a new song or something.  Looks like no rain which is great for walking through the city today to get there. 

I'm thinking I am going to hunker down at a nearby bar to watch the first half of the PSU game at 3:45 today.  If anyone wants to meet up, otherwise I'm sure I'll see some of you at the venue.  I have a seat so I'll be along the edge somewhere. 

[devieira73]

Listening to the new album a lot last week and enjoyind it a lot! But it isn’t better that The Mountain neither Affinity IMO. It does sound short because, to me, besides the actual lenght, the last 2 songs are a bit weaker compared to the first 5, wich makes me feel like the album ends at Nil by Mouth (tremendous instrumental, by the way) and have 2 bonus tracks. On a side note, Ray’s drumming is stellar, he’s still getting better every album, very impressive his evolution.

[Elite]

Nil by Mouth and Dance of Eternity comparison

I agree completely, although I’d say DoE had more melody than NbM.

[gzarruk]

Nil by Mouth and Dance of Eternity comparison

I agree completely, although I’d say DoE had more melody than NbM.

To me, their TDOE is Portals, not NBM.

[Zydar]

Yeah I'd say Portals too.

[Elite]

Portals is so much better than Nil by Mouth.

[Evermind]

I'm five listens in and I still think this album is awesome. Pretty much every song is great. I like it way more than Affinity and Visions.

Also I just realized that the middle section of Veil (4:00 - 7:00) reminds me of some Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson song. I don't remember which one though, but the vocal melodies are almost exactly the same if I recall correctly. Anyone?

Yes I heard it too, Hag - Storm Corrosion

Hell yes, that's it. This has been bugging me for days.

[jammindude]

Ok.  I've listened to it several times over this last week.   It's gone through my "5 spin" rule, and I've come to the conclusion that it's very good.    I really like every song, and I am enjoying the replays so far. 

For any other band, this would be a dynamite album.   I suppose the problem is that with Haken, the bar is set so unbelievably high, that the expectations can never be met.      In other words, this is the very first Haken album ever released that did not make me go  on the first few spins.   With album number 5, I got the feeling for the very first time that, "Yup....this sure is a Haken album."    Not in a bad way.    It's just that Aquarius had its quirks, and then Visions was like SFAM 2.0, and then The Mountain was a huge 90 degree turn, and then Affinity was another sharp shift in sounds and experimentation....but Vector is just a very nice blend of things that they've done before.   A sortof "This is encapsulating everything we have done and learned up to this point."   And it succeeds on that level.    Like a really good flashback episode of your favorite TV show.   

But ya, it's going to be my least favorite from them.   But that really just speaks to the strength of the rest of the albums, not to any weakness on the part of Vector.

[me7]

Very well said, I agree with every word.

[cramx3]

Concert was awesome

I was on the side of the stage, so my angle was not great but certainly cool enough to see the action

Haken - The Good Doctor LIVE @ Highline Ballroom NYC

Haken - Nil by Mouth LIVE @ Highline Ballroom NYC

Also got an extended high five from Ross during the set

[Fritzinger]

Portals is so much better than Nil by Mouth.

Don't agree at all. The technical level of NBM is just amazing and I really don't understand people who say that there is no melody/harmony at all in this song.
There is melody/harmony in this song. Plus, the band specifically announced that this album would be heavier, more riff- oriented. And when they finally released it, people went all "oh no this is way too riff oriented and there is no melody here, I didn't expect that from a Haken album".

It's natural, Haken is a band that evolves and never does the same twice. It's only normal that there will be people that don't like the new style they explore. But just stating that [this older song] is just so much better than [this never song] just because the band doesn't do the same music they did 3,5 albums ago anymore? Sorry, but that's not what the progressive genre is all about for me.

[NoseofNicko]

Portals is so much better than Nil by Mouth.

Don't agree at all. The technical level of NBM is just amazing and I really don't understand people who say that there is no melody/harmony at all in this song.
There is melody/harmony in this song.

Yeah like the part at 1:16. It’s unfortunate it isn’t repeated later in the song.

[Nachtmerrie]

Saw them in Philly last night. I actually think Leprous upstaged them a bit and from where I was standing, they also seemed to have a bigger crowd presence. I can see how people would like Bent Knee, but they just were not my thing at all. There's just something about some female vocalists where it feels like their voices sit above the music and never quite "blend" and that's what I heard. Overall, it was an excellent show. Haken's set flew by and all the bands played really well. Leprous' drummer is from another planet...that guy is incredibly good.

Second that, Baard is amazing!

Indeed. His playing is the only reason I’m considering to give Leprous a chance (never cared for them before). Without derailing the thread too much, which Leprous songs do yo recommend me that have great drumming from Baard?

I'm still discovering Leprous myself (mainly listened to Malina & The Congretation).
At this point I would say Slave and Rewind are some pretty good examples

[Elite]

Portals is so much better than Nil by Mouth.

Don't agree at all. The technical level of NBM is just amazing and I really don't understand people who say that there is no melody/harmony at all in this song.
There is melody/harmony in this song.

Of course there is melody and harmony in the song. All music has that. The technical level being amazing is something that doesn't especially interest me. You can make extremely technically challenging music that's boring to listen to. Nil by Mouth goes too far on the technical scale for me. I think Portals is a more interesting song/composition and I like it better than nil by Mouth.

Plus, the band specifically announced that this album would be heavier, more riff- oriented. And when they finally released it, people went all "oh no this is way too riff oriented and there is no melody here, I didn't expect that from a Haken album".

This doesn't apply to me.

It's natural, Haken is a band that evolves and never does the same twice. It's only normal that there will be people that don't like the new style they explore.

Are they really doing new stuff on the album though? I don't really feel like they're doing anything 'new' at all. That said, how does my initial statement warrant a reply that suggests I don't 'like the new style they explore'?

But just stating that [this older song] is just so much better than [this never song] just because the band doesn't do the same music they did 3,5 albums ago anymore? Sorry, but that's not what the progressive genre is all about for me.

If this progressive genre is about innovation, then there's bands out there who do far more 'new' stuff than Haken does in their music. Then again, why am I not allowed to think Portals is better than Nil by Mouth? I prefer to listen to that one a lot. Am I supposed to enjoy Nil by Mouth more, simply because 'the band doesn't do the same music they did 3,5 albums ago'? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[ariich]

This whole discussion seems predicated on Nil By Mouth being super-technical. Which it isn't.

[KevShmev]

The technical level of NBM is just amazing and I really don't understand people who say that there is no melody/harmony at all in this song.

Who said that?

There is melody/harmony in this song.

There is, yes, but the technical wizardry is so overpowering that it kind of drowns out what melody is there (for most of the song).  The balance is not there.

It's natural, Haken is a band that evolves and never does the same twice. 

This cliche, really?  This album has plenty of things Haken has done before (and there is nothing wrong with that). 

[KevShmev]

This whole discussion seems predicated on Nil By Mouth being super-technical. Which it isn't.

I would categorize it more as a (mostly) non-stop riff-fest. The song pretty much runs from one heavy riff to another for the majority of it.  The little mellow part a minute in is really cool and I wish that would have been explored more as a theme that appeared more often in the song; it could have given the song a main melodic theme that it ended up lacking.

[ariich]

Yeah, "riff-heavy" is certainly a better descriptor than "technical".

I love it but (or possibly because) it's pretty intense. I can see why some people won't dig it so much.

[cramx3]

Seem the crowd really loved it last night.  I know I did. 

[Scorpion]

With some more listens, Nil by Mouth is growing me. It's not as good as the best that this album has to offer, but the better I understand it, the more I appreciate it as well. Some of the riffs are absolutely massive in a way that Haken have rarely been before.

Sadly, Puzzle Box and A Cell Divides still haven't really clicked for me. I like them when I listen to them, but nothing is really memorable. If I weren't listening to A Cell Divides right now, I couldn't tell you what it sounds like.

Because this is DTF: tentative rankings!

1. Veil
2. Host
3. Clear/The Good Doctor
4. Nil by Mouth
5. A Cell Divides
6. Puzzle Box

[jammindude]

Interesting.  Because Puzzle Box and A Cell Divides are the two that are the most stuck in my brain.   Specifically, the main riff for PB, and the chorus for ACD.   

Everything you described is what I've been thinking about Host. 

[jammindude]

Subject to change:

Veil
Puzzle Box
Clear/The Good Doctor
A Cell Divides
Nil By Mouth
Host

[KevShmev]

I would go:

Veil
Puzzle Box
Host
Clear/A Good Doctor
Nil by Mouth
A Cell Divides (which I am pretty sure will become only the 3rd Haken song I delete from my iTunes)

[Evermind]

Host

Puzzle Box
A Cell Divides
Clear / The Good Doctor

Veil (still very good)

Nil By Mouth (not very good)

[Zydar]

My previous ranking still stands:

1. Puzzle Box
2. The Good Doctor
3. Veil
4. A Cell Divides
5. Host
6. Nil By Mouth
7. Clear

[Nick]

The new material slays live, especially TGD and NBM imo.

[cramx3]

I might have liked the setlist better last time (more diversity and longer) but I think last night was my favorite of the three times I have now seen them.  Thought they sounded fantastic and seemed tight all around.  Great performance and lots of energy.  Leprous was really good too, seemed they ended on an energetic high note and then Haken took it from there.  I'd agree that the new material slays live, probably better than the album IMO.  Some of the songs just had that added live energy.  No real surprises though, the same set they've been playing.  But during Crystilized, there were a couple crowd surfers.  The first one getting helped on stage by Ross who then said it was officially the first crowd surfer of the tour    I had a VIP seat ticket, it was sold out but there were lots of open spots along the side of the stage.  I think everyone who had this type of ticket spent their time on the balcony which was packed so I ended up having a full booth to myself which was kind of awkward for a bit, but then they moved the side mixing board during Leprous which allowed me to then get super close essentially just on the side of their stage.  Not the best view, but at least I wasn't sitting in a booth alone and I was rocking out with my own space and closeness with the band (and a Mom who rocked out with me the entire Haken set).  At one point Ross reached over and there was just enough room from the barrier to get a high five.  Was a pretty cool moment.  Also was nice to catch up with El Barto before and after the show for a bit 

Just finished making my full video of the concert, hope you enjoy:

Haken and Leprous live at sold out Highline Ballroom NYC