Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[El Barto]

What fascinates me is that the people who don't care for Haken generally cite the same two reasons. They don't like the singer and they feel like there's pointless wankery. Those are my two biggest problem with DT. Haken to me is a big improvement. I suspect my bewilderment for the people who adore DT and don't get Haken is pretty evenly reciprocated. Eh, there are some weird people in the world. SMH

[me7]

James LaBrie in his prime is way above anything I expect Ross Jennings to achieve, but in terms of prog-wankery DT are the worse offenders IMO.

The weird sections of Haken songs may seem jarring at first but I always find them refreshing in the flow of the album. I can't say the same about Rudess' wankery and his solo tradeoffs with Petrucci.

[goo-goo]

The weird sections of Haken songs may seem jarring at first but I always find them refreshing in the flow of the album. I can't say the same about Rudess' wankery and his solo tradeoffs with Petrucci.

I find the wankery in Haken more interesting and original than in DT. The wankery in DT has become very predictable as me7 said.

[KevShmev]

James LaBrie in his prime is way above anything I expect Ross Jennings to achieve, but in terms of prog-wankery DT are the worse offenders IMO.

I totally agree with both points.

Jennings cannot touch LaBrie when it comes to greatness as a singer (in the studio).

And I have never thought Haken was that wanky.  Maybe it's because their wankery comes in the form of full band rhythmic blast-offs, as opposed to long sections with trading solos being a regular thing.

[MinistroRaven]

Here's Rodrigo Altaf latest interview. This time with Charlie Griffiths from Haken.
Enjoy.

https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/each-album-is-its-own-fresh-start-and-you-shouldnt-compare-it-to-what-weve-done-before-charlie-griffiths-of-haken-talks-about-their-new-album-vector

[425]

What fascinates me is that the people who don't care for Haken generally cite the same two reasons. They don't like the singer and they feel like there's pointless wankery. Those are my two biggest problem with DT. Haken to me is a big improvement.

I think it might be fair to say that in Haken, generally, the wankery is more of a "here's some completely different musical style that you didn't expect" sort, while in DT it's generally more of a "here's a bunch of fast solos and some weird time signatures" thing. And then some people would prefer one or the other.

FWIW, between the two bands, I prefer Dream Theater. I think James is a stronger singer, I like that the keyboards have a stronger lead presence (whether it's KM, DS or JR), and I think DT's catalogue captures a greater range of styles and moods that line up with what I see as significant (while it's possible that could change as Haken's discography grows, I would say the same thing if DT's discography only included WDADU/IAW/Awake/ACOS/FII—four albums and an EP, the same as Haken's pre-Vector).

But that isn't to sell Haken short at all. I would put The Mountain and Aquarius right up among the top 4 or so DT albums. And I would actually disagree that Aquarius feels derivative of DT. That album has a distinct style all of its own. With Visions, I think the comparison has some real legitimacy.

[Evermind]

And I would actually disagree that Aquarius feels derivative of DT. That album has a distinct style all of its own. With Visions, I think the comparison has some real legitimacy.

I agree with this. There are a few DT moments on Aquarius, but it definitely has its own style.

[me7]

Rudess has a stronger lead presence (for better or worse) but what Tejeida does for the music in the background with his tasteful patches is IMO unparalleled in the modern prog world.

[425]

Oh, Tejada does some awesome stuff for sure. I think it's again a matter of preference in terms of which approach one prefers. I just happen to prefer DT's.

[Train of Naught]

First listen of Puzzle Box I thought it was kind of annoying but I'm starting to enjoy it, could've been shorter though but the chorus is but I probably like The Good Doctor even better. This album is shaping up pretty nicely

[ToT-147]

The weird sections of Haken songs may seem jarring at first but I always find them refreshing in the flow of the album. I can't say the same about Rudess' wankery and his solo tradeoffs with Petrucci.

I find the wankery in Haken more interesting and original than in DT. The wankery in DT has become very predictable as me7 said.

Besides the fact that I hate the word "wankery" (is an insulting word and concept to the musician and the people that actually likes those sections, where I personally focus on the riffs so I don't care about the million per seconds notes nonsense anyways)... I've always felt that the predictable band regarding these kind of sections is Haken.. They not only seem to create those sections just for the sake of it, but some of the riffs beneath the solos are very inspired in DT riffs.. The vibe of some sections sounds so similar... The same happens with BtBaM.. It's like they're trying to imitate (or maybe doing a homage, who knows, to) sections that are some of DT's quintessences..

When DT does it, maybe it could sometimes be like a little repetitive, but it feels anyways right because it sounds like them... when another band tries to do what they do, it feels a bit awkward... Not saying I don't like those sections.. I like them.. But every time I'm listening to them I think more in DT and the inspiration they gave to others band than the band that I'm actually listening to..

[El Barto]

James LaBrie in his prime is way above anything I expect Ross Jennings to achieve, but in terms of prog-wankery DT are the worse offenders IMO.

I totally agree with both points.

Jennings cannot touch LaBrie when it comes to greatness as a singer (in the studio).

And I have never thought Haken was that wanky.  Maybe it's because their wankery comes in the form of full band rhythmic blast-offs, as opposed to long sections with trading solos being a regular thing.

JLB is certainly the more gifted singer. Yet I'll happily trade a reasonable amount of talent to get to somebody that I don't find shrill and annoying. The criticism I hear of Jennings is that he's bland or generic. Compared to JLB that's very definitely true, but under the circumstances I'm obviously cool with that. Where I will give JLB props is for being the more expressive of the two. Jennings couldn't pull of SDoIT. By and large I'd take RJ any day, but he does limit the band somewhat with what they can do. JLB's versatility gives them opportunities that Haken won't get.

As for the wankery (and that is the most applicable term), with Haken I often find it to be stylistically linked to the story in some way. That's a good thing. It never seems to be there simply because that's what the fanbase expects.

[jammindude]

Jennings is his own thing. He’s the modern day Jon Anderson, and you either dig that style, or you don’t. Lots of people don’t like JA either.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Jennings is his own thing. He’s the modern day Jon Anderson, and you either dig that style, or you don’t. Lots of people don’t like JA either.

He's far more annoying to me than Jon Anderson, but I get the analogy.

[gzarruk]

I don’t understand how Ross’ voice can be annoying to some of you, it’s fine to me and it works well with Haken’s music. Don’t like when he growls, but I’m glad it’s only happened on a couple songs.

[425]

He has a distinctive way of pronouncing some words. Particularly, it sometimes sounds like he's inserting an "R" sound into places where there is no "R" (I feel like this tendency has reduced over time). I can see how that would bother some people, though it does not bother me.

[RoeDent]

I've never understood the criticism over Jennings' voice. At least it's not ridiculous like the bloke from ACDC or Axl Rose or whoever. It's a somewhat neutral, but still unique voice, absolutely perfect for Haken.

[Mladen]

I've never had issues with vocals in Haken. It sounds like your typical progressive metal singer. And I don't mean typical in a negative way, it's more that I don't find it any more different or controversial than other singers in the genre.

[Zydar]

I've never had any issue with Ross' vocals either. And I'm usually very picky when it comes to the vocals whenever I'm getting into a new band.

[KevShmev]

He has a certain tone that still makes me wince (like when he sings the line "free from your burden" during Falling Back to Earth's chorus), but those moments are rare enough that I can deal with them.  And he does the background/wordless stuff really well.  The instrumental section in the middle of Celestial Elixir is still the greatest section of music they've ever done and his wordless singing at the very end is fantastic.

[jammindude]

The second half of Drowning in the Flood is among my favorite vocal moments in prog history.

[GasparXR]

The second half of Drowning in the Flood is among my favorite vocal moments in prog history.

Same! The "will we live to tell the taaaaale?" Part is SO good. The really low, powerful guitar there really brings it to another level too.

[NoseofNicko]

Generic? Typical? I can’t think of a single singer that sounds like him.

[gzarruk]

Generic? Typical? I can’t think of a single singer that sounds like him.

This. Ross' voice is unique imo.

[GasparXR]

Generic? Typical? I can’t think of a single singer that sounds like him.

This. Ross' voice is unique imo.

Same. I really don't think he has a typical prog/metal voice.

[Estiui]

I've just come to say that The Mountain is still the best album I've ever listened to, my mind has not changed for the last 5 years.

About the new stuff, I like The Good Doctor as a single, but Puzzle Box is just OK for me, it's like they've written it in auto mode. They can do much better, for sure.

[Rattlehead]

I just listened to Puzzle Box for the first time and I really enjoyed it. I can't wait for the new album, I really need something new to listen to these days. So excited to see them in NYC in less than a month 

[Nekov]

He has a distinctive way of pronouncing some words. Particularly, it sometimes sounds like he's inserting an "R" sound into places where there is no "R" (I feel like this tendency has reduced over time).

That's probably because British people don't usually pronounce r's and he's trying to cater to the American audience 

[jammindude]

Wait...British people don’t pronounce R’s?
People who come from gReat bRiton don’t pronounce R’s?

[Nekov]

Wait...British people don’t pronounce R’s?
People who come from gReat bRiton don’t pronounce R’s?

They pronounce less r's than American people do. Have Arich send you an audio of him saying, car, care, nurse, poor and you'll see 

[cramx3]

I just listened to Puzzle Box for the first time and I really enjoyed it. I can't wait for the new album, I really need something new to listen to these days. So excited to see them in NYC in less than a month 

  I can't believe how quickly this is coming up, definitely looking forward to binging the album before the show

[ariich]

Wait...British people don’t pronounce R’s?
People who come from gReat bRiton don’t pronounce R’s?

They pronounce less r's than American people do. Have Arich send you an audio of him saying, car, care, nurse, poor and you'll see 

This isn't quite correct. It's true for some accents (like BBC English and most other accents from south east England). But most other regional accents have quite strong pronounciations of Rs, even in words that don't have Rs in them. The west country in particular is famous for it.

[Podaar]

Wait...British people don’t pronounce R’s?
People who come from gReat bRiton don’t pronounce R’s?

They pronounce less r's than American people do. Have Arich send you an audio of him saying, car, care, nurse, poor and you'll see 

This isn't quite correct. It's true for some accents (like BBC English and most other accents from south east England). But most other regional accents have quite strong pronounciations of Rs, even in words that don't have Rs in them. The west country in particular is famous for it.

Hmmm, I had no idear.

[Nekov]

Also, British people are no fun.....

[MinistroRaven]

Fritzinger review of the new album was published today at LotsOfMuzik:

https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/effortlessly-skipping-every-prog-cliche-our-review-of-hakens-new-album-vektor