Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[King Postwhore]

But Rich, its it riffy acapella?

[Enigmachine]

Good that it's going in a heavier direction. I felt that Affinity was a little too disjointed in its sound, radically switching the mood almost every single track. Hopefully the increased heaviness will mean more consistency.

[jammindude]

Affinity was deep.   It didn't really come across as "disjointed" to me, but I can kinda get what you're saying.   

I tend to like albums more when they don't necessarily maintain a single sound all the way through.   Using DT as an example, I really love Train of Thought for having a singular vision all the way through it, but I much prefer something like IAW which starts off super balls and chunk riff heavy, goes directly into a nearly Kenny G level of ballad, then goes into this hyper jazzy, exercise in musical gymnastics.   The variety of sounds, to me is what keeps the album interesting on repeated listens. 

[ariich]

Affinity was deep.   It didn't really come across as "disjointed" to me, but I can kinda get what you're saying.   

I tend to like albums more when they don't necessarily maintain a single sound all the way through.   Using DT as an example, I really love Train of Thought for having a singular vision all the way through it, but I much prefer something like IAW which starts off super balls and chunk riff heavy, goes directly into a nearly Kenny G level of ballad, then goes into this hyper jazzy, exercise in musical gymnastics.   The variety of sounds, to me is what keeps the album interesting on repeated listens. 

For me, I don't think either approach is inherently superior, but I do find I need more variety in long albums, whereas albums that stick with one mood (sometimes for artistic merit) are better if they're not too long so they still pack the punch they're going for. For me ToT's problem is it's a bit too long to sustain such a similar vibe all the way.

[KevShmev]

Despite the variety, Affinity manages to sound very cohesive to me, probably because the songs all kind of have, for lack of a better term, that slightly electronic 80's backdrop.  That identifiable production cannot be found on any other Haken record, so when you hear it, you know it is from that album.

[Enigmachine]

Affinity was deep.   It didn't really come across as "disjointed" to me, but I can kinda get what you're saying.   

I tend to like albums more when they don't necessarily maintain a single sound all the way through.   Using DT as an example, I really love Train of Thought for having a singular vision all the way through it, but I much prefer something like IAW which starts off super balls and chunk riff heavy, goes directly into a nearly Kenny G level of ballad, then goes into this hyper jazzy, exercise in musical gymnastics.   The variety of sounds, to me is what keeps the album interesting on repeated listens.

I get that and still like the album, but I think that from song-to-song it never really gets a chance to rest, with some sort of stylistic / mood whiplash almost every single song.

Like this: 'Initiate' - subtle and dark, then '1985' - Quirky epic that doesn't take itself seriously. 'The Architect' to 'Earthrise' is another jolt, as is every other song from then. Great album, but the song-to-song progression of 'The Mountain' or 'Visions' makes them feel more cohesive in my mind. The shifts in an album like IaW don't sound quite as strong to my ears, as 'Pull Me Under' and 'Another Day' are both pretty serious and deep tracks, even though they're musically very different.

[King Postwhore]

In all honesty I don't want bands to have the same formulas for every album.  That's just boring. 

[Heretic]

I mean, I'm all for a heavier direction, but it's the melodious and lighter sections that I find really allow the music to breathe, and I hope it isn't just entirely one sound for the duration of the album. I trust Haken to make quality music, though-- easily my favorite prog band, but I just hope that they don't forgo an aspect of their music that they are extremely talented at.

[ariich]

I hope it isn't just entirely one sound for the duration of the album.

Don't worry, it isn't. Don't expect much of what I'd call "pretty" stuff like BBG, but plenty of respite and lots of great melodies and harmonies. Every Haken album is pretty different, but I'd say things like that are a core part of their identity and aren't going away any time soon no matter what new things they try or how the balance of styles shifts on any particular album.

[KevShmev]

Yep, I don't expect the strong melodies to disappear just because the music is heavier.

Looking ahead, what songs do you think they'll play on the tour this fall?  With it being a co-headlining thing, is it fair to assume they will get 90-105 minutes a night?  If so, I would guess we'll get 30 minutes or so of new music.  I would be surprised if they hit the new album too heavy on a tour with a shorter set list. Once they tour as a solo headliner, then I would think more new stuff would get played since the set list will be longer.  Cockroach King and The Endless Knot are gimmes, since I think those are already two songs I think they will play at every show for years.  I think 1985 is the other Affinity tune likely to get played again this year, and since it wasn't played much on the NA tour last year, I could see Falling Back to Earth being a regular.  I would bet the first two albums won't be featured much, outside of maybe a song or two combined.  I would guess for another song or two from The Mountain, In Memoriam being the most likely.  I'd be surprised to see any of their longest epics (Visions, Crystallized, Celestial Elixir, The Architect) get played on this tour.

[Nick]

Yep, I don't expect the strong melodies to disappear just because the music is heavier.

Looking ahead, what songs do you think they'll play on the tour this fall?  With it being a co-headlining thing, is it fair to assume they will get 90-105 minutes a night?  If so, I would guess we'll get 30 minutes or so of new music.  I would be surprised if they hit the new album too heavy on a tour with a shorter set list. Once they tour as a solo headliner, then I would think more new stuff would get played since the set list will be longer.  Cockroach King and The Endless Knot are gimmes, since I think those are already two songs I think they will play at every show for years.  I think 1985 is the other Affinity tune likely to get played again this year, and since it wasn't played much on the NA tour last year, I could see Falling Back to Earth being a regular.  I would bet the first two albums won't be featured much, outside of maybe a song or two combined.  I would guess for another song or two from The Mountain, In Memoriam being the most likely.  I'd be surprised to see any of their longest epics (Visions, Crystallized, Celestial Elixir, The Architect) get played on this tour.

The Endless Knot I'd LIKE to be that song, but it wasn't even played at every possible show on the last tour tours, so I wouldn't automatically set it as a definite piece.

[jammindude]

Agreed. Cockroach King and 1985 are the only automatic “gimmies” that I can think of.

Strong probably’s would be Endless Knot, In Memorium, and I think at least one song from Visions with Deathless being a top contender.

Agreed that I don’t think we will see any epics at all unless it’s the new one.

[ariich]

Agreed that I don’t think we will see any epics at all unless it’s the new one.

I'd be pretty surprised if they don't play it, to be honest.

EDIT: But it's also not as long as the "epics" in Kev's list.

[Nick]

Agreed. Cockroach King and 1985 are the only automatic “gimmies” that I can think of.

Strong probably’s would be Endless Knot, In Memorium, and I think at least one song from Visions with Deathless being a top contender.

Agreed that I don’t think we will see any epics at all unless it’s the new one.

Firstly, I'm going to assume 90 minutes since this is a co-headlining run, want more, but logistics might not make it possible. Keep in mind on the Affinity tour Haken played usually two hours while TYS played one hour. So 90 minutes each for Leprous and Haken would make sense. And with Bent Knee a nationwide opening you'll likely not have enough time for two hour sets in most places.

In specific reference to Deathless, highly doubt that. They only played one song from Visions the whole of the Affinity tour (minus ProgPower), and that was Deathless. While I loved seeing that song live there is no reason for them to bring it back into the fold as a nightly staple so soon.

As for staples that will be in, there is definitely an Affinity problem to navigate around. They cemented certain things as "moments" during the very extensive touring they did for that. 1985, The Endless Knot, and The Architect all had big live moments, Red Giant had specific merch dedicated to it, and Bound By Gravity is the only song they haven't played yet. Because of that last point I really hope they do play BBG, but with the new album probably taking up at least 30 minutes of the set, and realistically more like 45, and Cockroach King likely taking up 8 minutes, you probably have about 40 minutes of that to dedicate to all the other material.

So the big question for me is, given that they JUST played so much of that material so often how much set time does it get this time around? Personally I hope BBG gets in, and while I have preferences for more Affinity material beyond that if they are playing more, I kinda hope they keep it to just BBG and hit some lesser played stuff from the other albums.

[Elite]

Why not just drop Cockroach King from the set for one tour? They've played that one on basically all the past tours.

Not that I would gain anything from it, but I'd like to see a random Aquarius song in the set, like Drowning in the Flood or - if it ever happens again - Streams.

[Nick]

Why not just drop Cockroach King from the set for one tour? They've played that one on basically all the past tours.

Not that I would gain anything from it, but I'd like to see a random Aquarius song in the set, like Drowning in the Flood or - if it ever happens again - Streams.

I would also prefer Cockroach King gets dropped for awhile, but don't know if it'll happen.

And yes, I'm happy with any and all Aquarius inclusions, but given that we got the big medley last tour, and two of the guys aren't overly fond of playing from it, my guess is that the album gets heavily shafted this tour.

[Elite]

and two of the guys aren't overly fond of playing from it

is that so? I didn't know that!

[mike099]

and two of the guys aren't overly fond of playing from it

is that so? I didn't know that!

Those 2 guys do not like circus music.

[DTA]

I'd like to see them give all of their previous epics a rest and focus on the new album's epic and regular album tracks. I think live debuts of Earthlings and/or Bound By Gravity are likely, and I also think Lapse will get a decent amount of play since it was ignored on the Affinity tour. I really think the setlist will focus heavily on Vector and Affinity with no Aquarius tracks and a shorter Visions track if any is even included (Mind's Eye or Insomnia). 1985 and Cockroach King are pretty much guaranteed as CK is the closest thing they have to a "hit" and 1985 is just a damn good song that represents Affinity well.

My guess would be something like this:

1. New Song (or album intro)
2. New Song
3. 1985
4. Insomnia (or Mind's Eye)
5. New Song
6. Lapse
7. Bound By Gravity (or Earthlings)
8. In Memoriam
9. New Song
10. Earthrise
11. Cockroach King
----
12. New Song (Epic)

[GasparXR]

^ I would LOVE to see Earthlings. It does not get much love.

Also I'm 99% sure I'm gonna be going to the Montreal show!

[gzarruk]

More than two years after the release of Affinity and I still don't know what is it that people like about Earthrise or BBG. Those two songs never clicked with me, and I don't think they ever will. And I think that's why I don't rank Affinity higher, since it's the first album, since Aquarius, that has songs that don't work well for me, in contrast with Visions or The Mountain that are just perfect listening experiences from start to finish

[axeman90210]

I'd like to see them give all of their previous epics a rest and focus on the new album's epic and regular album tracks. I think live debuts of Earthlings and/or Bound By Gravity are likely, and I also think Lapse will get a decent amount of play since it was ignored on the Affinity tour. I really think the setlist will focus heavily on Vector and Affinity with no Aquarius tracks and a shorter Visions track if any is even included (Mind's Eye or Insomnia). 1985 and Cockroach King are pretty much guaranteed as CK is the closest thing they have to a "hit" and 1985 is just a damn good song that represents Affinity well.

My guess would be something like this:

1. New Song (or album intro)
2. New Song
3. 1985
4. Insomnia (or Mind's Eye)
5. New Song
6. Lapse
7. Bound By Gravity (or Earthlings)
8. In Memoriam
9. New Song
10. Earthrise
11. Cockroach King
----
12. New Song (Epic)

I wouldn't be so sure about Lapse, they were pretty disappointed with the crowd reaction when they busted it out for CttE 2017.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

It would be sick if they did a Visions medley like the one they did for Aquarius. Also I think As Death Embraces is a fantastic song to keep in the set - kind of a Ross solo spot thing. I was bummed they had omitted it before I saw them in Hollywood in their 10th anniversary tour.

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't be so sure about Lapse, they were pretty disappointed with the crowd reaction when they busted it out for CttE 2017.

I am not sure a cruise crowd is a good judge of how songs go over live, though.

The Endless Knot I'd LIKE to be that song, but it wasn't even played at every possible show on the last tour tours, so I wouldn't automatically set it as a definite piece.

That surprises me.  Given how the crowd goes bonkers over "we know which part," I will still be surprised if it doesn't become a mainstay.

As for staples that will be in, there is definitely an Affinity problem to navigate around. They cemented certain things as "moments" during the very extensive touring they did for that. 1985, The Endless Knot, and The Architect all had big live moments, Red Giant had specific merch dedicated to it, and Bound By Gravity is the only song they haven't played yet. Because of that last point I really hope they do play BBG, but with the new album probably taking up at least 30 minutes of the set, and realistically more like 45, and Cockroach King likely taking up 8 minutes, you probably have about 40 minutes of that to dedicate to all the other material.

So the big question for me is, given that they JUST played so much of that material so often how much set time does it get this time around? Personally I hope BBG gets in, and while I have preferences for more Affinity material beyond that if they are playing more, I kinda hope they keep it to just BBG and hit some lesser played stuff from the other albums.

I'd love to see Bound by Gravity. That would be a great last song of the set.  Same goes for Somebody, which I still think is a top 5 Haken tune, but I don't expect that one any time soon.

^ I would LOVE to see Earthlings. It does not get much love.

Hell yeah.  That is a good one that needs to get played.

[cramx3]

I don't understand why they made a music video for Lapse if they weren't going to play it live, but they didn't.  I'd rather see BBG personally.

And I'd be cool if they dropped Cockroach King.  It's good, but I think it's a bit overrated.  I'd rather 1985 be the setlist staple if Haken were to have one (although I understand CK has been that song longer)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

My complete shot in the dark guess....

1. Clear
2. The Good Doctor
3. Insomnia
4. In Memoriam
5. Veil
6. Earthrise
7. Pareidolia
8. Nil By Mouth 
9. A Cell Divides
10. The Endless Knot


Encore
Bound by Gravity
1985

[RoeDent]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

[jammindude]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

COMPLETELY agree!

[me7]

Sums up how I've been feeling about Haken for the past seven years.

[cramx3]

It is pretty cool to see this band grow, I just hope there is a lot more room to grow.  The genre is very niche, but would be cool to see them make it to the next level.  Consistent touring will help.  It's nice that they are doing a 3rd tour of the US in 3 years.  Bands like Sabaton and Delain have come to the US every year for like 7 years in a row and their attendance shows that it helps.

[mike099]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

Mike Portnoy could not have said it better.

[DTA]

I'd like to see them give all of their previous epics a rest and focus on the new album's epic and regular album tracks. I think live debuts of Earthlings and/or Bound By Gravity are likely, and I also think Lapse will get a decent amount of play since it was ignored on the Affinity tour. I really think the setlist will focus heavily on Vector and Affinity with no Aquarius tracks and a shorter Visions track if any is even included (Mind's Eye or Insomnia). 1985 and Cockroach King are pretty much guaranteed as CK is the closest thing they have to a "hit" and 1985 is just a damn good song that represents Affinity well.

My guess would be something like this:

1. New Song (or album intro)
2. New Song
3. 1985
4. Insomnia (or Mind's Eye)
5. New Song
6. Lapse
7. Bound By Gravity (or Earthlings)
8. In Memoriam
9. New Song
10. Earthrise
11. Cockroach King
----
12. New Song (Epic)

I wouldn't be so sure about Lapse, they were pretty disappointed with the crowd reaction when they busted it out for CttE 2017.

That sucks, but I'd hate for them to make a judgment based on just one performance at such an odd venue as a cruise.

[me7]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

Mike Portnoy could not have said it better.

The quote doesn't contain any spin that redirects the spotlight on MP or his son, therefore: NO, your joke falls flat.

[mike099]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

Mike Portnoy could not have said it better.

The quote doesn't contain any spin that redirects the spotlight on MP or his son, therefore: NO, your joke falls flat.

Sorry, Did not mean any harm.  I actually agree with RoeDent's post.

I am just getting into Leporus and the song forced entry off of Bilateral has that Haken sound.

[KevShmev]

I find it remarkable that, at least as far as studio albums (and thus wider recognition) goes, Haken are entirely a product of this decade. Aquarius, their first album, came out in 2010. Now 8 years later, the arrival of album number 5 is on horizon, and it feels like a significant release in the progressive music world for this year, with plenty of anticipation for it, as this thread is currently demonstrating. Haken are certainly a contender to be among the defining prog bands of this decade, the way that Porcupine Tree defined the first decade of this 21st century.

As good a decade as Haken as had, I can't put them ahead of solo Steven Wilson, Devin Townsend or Neal Morse.