Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[BlackInk]

I most definetely regret buying DT12. Especially since I bought the damn deluxe super edition.

That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy their music just because I'm a Haken fan though. There are still plenty of DT albums that I think are great. Just not the last few.

[Crow]

i was bored, and

[ariich]

Sometimes I get the feeling on this forum that some people actively want to dislike DT. It's bizarre. Every time Haken does something there has to be a discussion on how much better than DT they are. I don't know why it matters.

I don't get it either.  It's like some Haken fans can't just enjoy their music; they have to make it a contest.  It's weird.

I don't think it really has anything to with Haken. Some people are just down on the recent output from the biggest prog bands (DT, Opeth, etc.), and Haken are one of the most popular among the currently active bands and so are the natural place to turn.

[Estiui]

I think the worst Haken song is probably somewhere between The Point of No Return and Darkest Light.

That being said, I think Haken has not a single bad song. And I think they're never going to reach DT's levels of mainstream because they don't have any media support at all, but they are very talented and their music is just pure awesomeness.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Right now i'm into Haken more than DT because they have a more refreshing sound. I've listened to DT for almost 20 years and Haken only 3-4 years so that says something.

We're on a DT forum so of course the main attraction will always be compared to other prog metal acts, that's just how it is and has always been.

When it comes to DT vs Haken and what everyone likes about their respective music is all about taste which is an opinion not a fact and highly subjective to you.

When it comes to Hakens popularity compared to DT one has to remember that DT is THE biggest prog metal band in the world and that's a fact not an opinion based on the amount of fans attending their shows and record sales. I don't think it's possible for any prog metal band to dethroned them because DT basically wrote the history for prog metal so the amount of respect for DTs legacy across the prog metal community is massive. Even though Haken is popular on this forum keep in mind that this forum is only a tiny speck in the ocean of DT fans across the world.

[ariich]

Even though Haken is popular on this forum keep in mind that this forum is only a tiny speck in the ocean of DT fans across the world.

It's really not limited to this forum; Haken are really popular across the prog community. The big difference though is that they're not really known at all outside the prog community (and parts of the metal one). That's why DT are so successful - they have a much broader reach, despite their technical prowess.

[jakepriest]

I know it has its big fans, but I don't get why you would think that Cockroach King is THE reason people like The Mountain?

DT12 is, in fact, neither bad nor average. It's actually really good.

Mosh, I get that sense sometimes, too. Then again, I think there's a general trend among music fans to describe a band's early material as better than it is and their later material as worse than it is, and I think that may play into how DT12 and TA get talked about.

It was a joke, calm down. 

It is bad. Very. To me.

I don't even like the early material that much. I prefer the SDOIT - Octavarium run.

[darkshade]

Even though Haken is popular on this forum keep in mind that this forum is only a tiny speck in the ocean of DT fans across the world.

I agree, it would be hard for Haken to reach a mainstream audience like DT did in the early 90s, but I see Haken's name here and there now. They definitely have a fan base at Prog Archives. I've even seen their name more than once on Phish forums of all places.

[425]

It was a joke, calm down. 

I figured it might be a joke, but as it was the first answer given to a serious question, I thought I'd push back against it regardless. I don't see why it's so bad of me to do that.

[Dublagent66]

I'm not even sure Haken's 4 studio albums are as good as DT's 4 least best albums.  Some will laugh, but that is how I see it.  And remember, I think Haken is a solid band with a handful of really good tunes; I do not genuflect to them like others do.

You're right about one thing.  It is laughable. 

Sometimes I get the feeling on this forum that some people actively want to dislike DT. It's bizarre. Every time Haken does something there has to be a discussion on how much better than DT they are. I don't know why it matters.

I don't get it either.  It's like some Haken fans can't just enjoy their music; they have to make it a contest.  It's weird.

Also, a big lol and facepalm at the people comparing The Astonishing and Affinity.

Agreed.  The Astonishing is so much better that it is definitely LOL-worthy to compare Affinity to it.

Do you not realize that saying TA is better than Affinity is comparing and competitive?   
At least the Haken fans don't go into the DT forum and say Affinity is better than TA.

[mikeyd23]

At least the Haken fans don't go into the DT forum and say Affinity is better than TA.

Not sure if you are serious or not.... If you are serious, maybe you want to read this thread, haha

[BlackInk]

Affinity is a serious album. Astonishing isn't something I can take seriously. I take it about as seriously as I do the CD with various Smurfs songs I had when I was little. Or like, the soundtrack to a cartoon disney movie. It's fun, and funny at times, but not something I would ever consider even in the same category as Affinity.

[goo-goo]

I've been listening to Affinity non-stop since the release date. It's been a while since an album has caused such an impact...There's only a few: DT- Images, Porcupine Tree - In Absentia, Katatonia - Night is the New Day, among others...I'm probably one of the few that thinks this but for me The Architect is probably one of the weaker songs in the album. Love the chrous though.

My favorites so far are 1985, Endless Knot and Bound by Gravity.

[King Postwhore]

Don't you think that's a little strong BlackInk?  Equating TA to the Smurfs?

That's pushing it.  It's a play and some don't like the format.  I get it but Jesus.  The SMURFS?!?!

I've been listening to Affinity non-stop since the release date.

As have I.

[BlackInk]

Okay fine, not as non-serious as that, but definetely the same type of serious. Like, it's a story for kids. That's fine I guess, but it's just not for me.

[ariich]

I'm probably one of the few that thinks this but for me The Architect is probably one of the weaker songs in the album. Love the chrous though.

Agreed. I'd probably rank it at the bottom to be honest. But it's still great.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

[twosuitsluke]

Okay fine, not as non-serious as that, but definetely the same type of serious. Like, it's a story for kids. That's fine I guess, but it's just not for me.

I think that's my biggest problem with TA, the story is VERY amateur. I appreciate the scope of what they were trying to do but it didn't pay off in my opinion. I love both bands but at this point feel like I'm listening to TA out of duty to a band I have supported and loved for a long time. Whereas I'm listening to Haken a lot because I want to, and can't stop 

You can't compare and DT are obviously always going to be bigger, they came from a time where there wasn't really any competition for the prog metal crown. Haken are great but this is a totally different time in music and I can't ever see them selling like DT unfortunately (although I would love them to).

[ariich]

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

The opening few minutes are brilliant and the end is brilliant (dat Initiate reprise!); it's the middle that I get a little bored with. Falling Back to Earth did that structure much more successfully IMO.

[Mladen]

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

The opening few minutes are brilliant and the end is brilliant (dat Initiate reprise!); it's the middle that I get a little bored with. Falling Back to Earth did that structure much more successfully IMO.

Now that was a great song!

[425]

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

The opening few minutes are brilliant and the end is brilliant (dat Initiate reprise!); it's the middle that I get a little bored with. Falling Back to Earth did that structure much more successfully IMO.

I think they need to move away from the tense building "ascending" first half/calmer "descending" second half song structure. The Architect deviates a little bit, but still. They're already done it on Falling Back to Earth, Nocturnal Conspiracy and Drowning in the Flood. All really good songs, but it might be time to give that structure a couple albums' rest.

[GasparXR]

i was bored, and

Took me a second to get it!!

[jakepriest]

I still don't. 

[home]

I still don't. 

_{Woooohoooohoooo you turned your back, turned your back on Affinity
Woooooohoooohoooooo, now it's turning to, turning to Toxicity!}

[krands85]

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

The opening few minutes are brilliant and the end is brilliant (dat Initiate reprise!); it's the middle that I get a little bored with..

Same here. Such a pity, because the ending is right up there with my favourite passages of music they've done.

[Crow]

aww man don't explain the joke 

[Dublagent66]

At least the Haken fans don't go into the DT forum and say Affinity is better than TA.

Not sure if you are serious or not.... If you are serious, maybe you want to read this thread, haha

Of course I'm serious.  Maybe you should read my post.  I said DT Forum.  This is General Music Discussion.

[KevShmev]

At least the Haken fans don't go into the DT forum and say Affinity is better than TA.

Not sure if you are serious or not.... If you are serious, maybe you want to read this thread, haha

Of course I'm serious.  Maybe you should read my post.  I said DT Forum.  This is General Music Discussion.

Maybe you should go back and re-read this thread.  DT fans aren't charging in here to be spoil sports and rain on the Haken parade; it is the big time Haken fans who are almost always starting the DT comparisons, and given that this is a DT forum and everywhere likes the band to some degree, it only makes sense that those of us in this thread who like DT way more are on their side when the DT vs Haken thing comes up.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

So The Architect is growing on me. Badass song.

[BlackInk]

I love The Architect and it is my favorite for a whole bunch of reasons. The ending being the biggest.

[Dublagent66]

At least the Haken fans don't go into the DT forum and say Affinity is better than TA.

Not sure if you are serious or not.... If you are serious, maybe you want to read this thread, haha

Of course I'm serious.  Maybe you should read my post.  I said DT Forum.  This is General Music Discussion.

Maybe you should go back and re-read this thread.  DT fans aren't charging in here to be spoil sports and rain on the Haken parade; it is the big time Haken fans who are almost always starting the DT comparisons, and given that this is a DT forum and everywhere likes the band to some degree, it only makes sense that those of us in this thread who like DT way more are on their side when the DT vs Haken thing comes up.

No need to re-read anything.  I never said DT fans are charging in here.  I said Haken fans don't go over to the DT side and make those comparisons.  You said the comparisons are silly, yet you are adding fuel to it with your own comparisons.  Pretty silly.

[Estiui]

Guys, Lapse, 2:25. Is it a synth solo or a guitar solo with strange effects? I had reasonably clear that it was a synth solo, as a keyboard player, but I've found some people saying that it's a guitar solo. What do you think?

The Architect's ending is awesome. It has definitely grown since the first time I listened to the album, but it's not still on a 1985 league.

The opening few minutes are brilliant and the end is brilliant (dat Initiate reprise!); it's the middle that I get a little bored with. Falling Back to Earth did that structure much more successfully IMO.

Agreed.

[jakepriest]

Guys, Lapse, 2:25. Is it a synth solo or a guitar solo with strange effects? I had reasonably clear that it was a synth solo, as a keyboard player, but I've found some people saying that it's a guitar solo. What do you think?

It's obviously a synth solo. I've commented on this before.

It was also you who asked this exact same question.

[Mosh]

Yep, no way it's a guitar. Having an actual guitar solo directly after makes it kind of obvious too IMO. 

[425]

Maybe you should go back and re-read this thread.  DT fans aren't charging in here to be spoil sports and rain on the Haken parade; it is the big time Haken fans who are almost always starting the DT comparisons, and given that this is a DT forum and everywhere likes the band to some degree, it only makes sense that those of us in this thread who like DT way more are on their side when the DT vs Haken thing comes up.

No need to re-read anything.  I never said DT fans are charging in here.  I said Haken fans don't go over to the DT side and make those comparisons.  You said the comparisons are silly, yet you are adding fuel to it with your own comparisons.  Pretty silly.

Seems like there may be a bit of a disagreement over whether the Haken thread on the Dream Theater forum is Haken's turf or Dream Theater's turf.



EDIT: I accidentally changed the date on one of the quotes to 1974. I'm just going to leave it.