Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Implode]

I dunno, man. Haken's first 4 albums +1 EP are probably even better over all than DT's first 4 +1 EP. And if not, it's pretty close.

That said, Haken is in no way ever going to be as big as DT is. That just isn't happening unless they have a mainstream hit like DT.

[King Postwhore]

So one song them?  Lol

[darkshade]

I dunno, man. Haken's first 4 albums +1 EP are probably even better over all than DT's first 4 +1 EP. And if not, it's pretty close.

That said, Haken is in no way ever going to be as big as DT is. That just isn't happening unless they have a mainstream hit like DT.

As good as Haken's first 4 albums are, none are as progressive, innovative, or just plain as good as I&W, Awake, or ACOS.

[KevShmev]

I'm not even sure Haken's 4 studio albums are as good as DT's 4 least best albums.  Some will laugh, but that is how I see it.  And remember, I think Haken is a solid band with a handful of really good tunes; I do not genuflect to them like others do.

[NoseofNicko]

I'm not even sure Haken's 4 studio albums are as good as DT's 4 least best albums.  Some will laugh, but that is how I see it.  And remember, I think Haken is a solid band with a handful of really good tunes; I do not genuflect to them like others do.

^This.

[Implode]

That's just an outrageous statement. The Mountain and Affinity aren't as good as Systematic Chaos? BC&SL? DT? WDADU???

That makes sense to me if you don't like Haken, but...I can't comprehend someone liking both bands and thinking that.

[KevShmev]

Collectively.  Haken's 4 studio albums taken as a whole are not as good as DT's least best 4 as a whole.  At least albums like SC and BC&SL are mostly good, with only a few meh songs on the two combined.  I think there are two songs from the first two Haken albums that I have any use for, maybe three.

Oh, and DT12 a) isn't one of DT's least best 4, and b) is much better than any album Haken has done to date.

[Implode]

This is how they stack up for me:

If I had to rank Haken albums with DT albums in between it'd be like this:

1. The Mountain
2. Affinity
3. SFAM
4. I&W
5. SDOIT
6. Visions
7. Awake
8. ADTOE
9. Aquarius

Some of these are very and hard to rank, but I think it's close enough. In all reality, right now I feel like Affinity should be at the top of the list, but I'll admit I'm still in the honeymoon phase with it.

[Crow]

DT12 is significantly less inspired than any Haken album

that being said iirc only one haken album made my top 50, while three DT albums made it, Awake up at like #4 or something

it doesn't help that i've been moving away from prog metal a bit lately and affinity isn't doing as much for me as it probably should be, since i can recognize it's pretty great while also not really falling in love with it like the mountain

[Mosh]

It's a bit unfair to compare DT12 to the first four albums from a new, younger band.

[KevShmev]

I agree.  DT12 sounds like a seasoned effort by a veteran band firing on all cylinders, while even the new Haken still sounds like a band still trying to find its way.  The talent is there; we'll see if they can get better as time goes on. 

[Crow]

>seasoned effort
>firing on all cylinders

what

[Outcrier]

DT12 is significantly less inspired than any Haken album

Agreed. I'm not even a fan of Haken but Aquarius and Visions at least are miles ahead of DT12 and an handful of DT albums.

Also, DT firing on all cylinders would be SFAM for me, definitely not DT12.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I love Haken's output thus far, but I don't think I could ever really say that they've had a masterful work on the level of I&W or SFAM, at least not yet.

[Outcrier]

I love Haken's output thus far, but I don't think I could ever really say that they've had a masterful work on the level of I&W or SFAM, at least not yet.

Also agree with this.

[Mosh]

The Mountain comes close, but it is way too young to be even considered next to those albums. Honestly comparing DT to Haken in general seems a bit silly to me. There is room for both and Haken clearly wouldn't exist without DT.

[darkshade]

I'm not even sure Haken's 4 studio albums are as good as DT's 4 least best albums.  Some will laugh, but that is how I see it.  And remember, I think Haken is a solid band with a handful of really good tunes; I do not genuflect to them like others do.

I like any of Haken's albums over DT12 or The Astonishing, easily.

[darkshade]

SDOIT
SFAM
I&W
Awake
The Mountain
Visions
ADTOE
Affinity
8vm
(ACOS)
BC&SL
(Restoration EP)
TOT
Aquarius
FII
SC
WD&DU
The Astonishing
DT12

[Heretic]

Like I said earlier, everything Haken have made I prefer over DT. Images and Words and SDOIT are on par with any Haken album besides The Mountain  for me, though.

[Estiui]

I'd say The Mountain is at the same level as I&W and SFAM, and the other 3 albums might be at the same level as SDOIT, Awake, ToT, TA, ADToE... Haken still has no low-tier album, DT has some of them.

[ariich]

Hmm, bit weird to rank all the DT & Haken albums as there's no particular connection between the two. I prefer Haken, personally, because their quirkier and more varied style (harmonically, sonically) sits more comfortably with my tastes than DT's which is more straightforward, but plenty of people will be the other way round. The two bands have quite a different approach, really.

But here goes anyway.

1.
The Mountain
Affinity

2.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

3.
Visions
Restoration
Images & Words
A Dramatic Turn of Events

4.
Aquarius
Awake
A Change of Seasons
Falling Into Infinity
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
The Astonishing

5.
Haken demo
Scenes from a Memory
Train of Thought
Octavarium
Systematic Chaos
Dream Theater

6.
When Dream and Day Unite

[Mladen]

Scenes from a memory
Images and words
Awake
A Dramatic turn of events
The Astonishing
Six degrees of inner turbulence
Systematic chaos
Aquarius
Black clouds & silver linings
Train of thought
The Mountain
Octavarium
Dream Theater
When dream and day unite
Visions
Affinity
Falling into infinity

[Cyclopssss]

I like the new album, but vocals-wise it sounds a lot like the last Anathema albums to me....

[Enigmachine]

Honestly comparing DT to Haken in general seems a bit silly to me. There is room for both and Haken clearly wouldn't exist without DT.

This. I don't get the obsession with them 'dethroning' DT. If we're talking objectively (sales, popularity, innovation etc.), they won't even touch them.

>seasoned effort
>firing on all cylinders

what

IMO DT12 is this.

[Train of Naught]

Why has this thread turned into a DT vs Haken thread?




.. It's clearly The Mountain>Aquarius>Affinity>DT12>Visions

[krands85]

I'm not even sure how I rank Haken's albums by themselves, let alone throwing in DT's as well 

What Haken have done with their first 4 albums and EP though, is made a very high quality and consistent collection of music - but DT's first 4/EP have plenty of low points. On the other hand, I can't see Haken ever making anything close to I&W. Also, even on most of their weaker albums, DT have this knack of managing to write one or two incredible tracks. As much as I love Haken, DT's best individual tracks are almost untouchable to me and that's part of why they've lasted so long I think. If Haken's consistency starts to drop, it might be a struggle to match that longevity that DT has.

[Nekov]

This discussion again? Come on

Anyways, I can't believe how much I'm enjoying this album. I thought it was the retro vibe that did it for me but I've been paying a lot more attention to it lately and I'm finding so many King Crimson moments which I love so much.

[KevShmev]

>seasoned effort
>firing on all cylinders

what

I can repeat it for you:

DT12 sounds like a seasoned effort by a veteran band firing on all cylinders.

That better?

[Implode]

It's all in good fun and completely subjective! I'm not exactly trying to pit them against each other. It's not like we can't listen to both after all.

[mikeyd23]

Honestly comparing DT to Haken in general seems a bit silly to me. There is room for both and Haken clearly wouldn't exist without DT.

This. I don't get the obsession with them 'dethroning' DT. If we're talking objectively (sales, popularity, innovation etc.), they won't even touch them.

Bingo. Everything else in the "dethroning" (whatever the hell that means) debate comes down to personal taste.

Haken's 4 studio albums taken as a whole are not as good as DT's least best 4 as a whole.

I think I'd agree with that. And that's not a knock on Haken, I think they are a really good band, I'm a little surprised at the level of responses in this thread ranking Haken albums above I&W, SDOIT, SFAM, etc... In my book that's not even close. But opinions...

[Tomislav95]

I still love Visions and The Mountain more but Affinity is one of the best albums of the year so far. I can't say I love all songs but every is at least good.

[Outcrier]

SDOIT
SFAM
Images
Awake
ToT
-
Octavarium
ADTOE

I would probably put Aquarius and Visions just below ToT and together with Octavarium and ADTOE.

[425]

I'm always astounded (astonished? ) by how quickly people are able to rank new releases. I'm not at a place where I feel comfortable ranking either The Astonishing or Affinity in the respective bands' discographies. I mean, Affinity is an album I've known for like three weeks up against albums I've known for years? And The Astonishing is just ridiculously long.

But without those two involved, I'd probably do this.

• Images and Words
• The Mountain
• A Dramatic Turn of Events
• Scenes from a Memory
• Black Clouds & Silver Linings
• Dream Theater
• Aquarius
• Train of Thought
• Awake
• Octavarium
• Falling Into Infinity
• Visions
• Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
• Systematic Chaos
• When Dream and Day Unite

But my DT rankings are constantly shifting and changing, so who knows. Pretty certain about #1-4 on this list, but that's about it.

[Crow]

I already know I can rank affinity above visions but not other haken albums 

[425]

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't beat The Mountain. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you.