The PC thread

[Duppies_Don_Dacid]

I am working on convincing myself I need a new computer. I probably do not need one, but mine has been crashing periodically, and I just saw Steam will soon stop running on Win7, which is what I have. I bought this machine in... checking... 2009. Plus I haven't bought anything gadget-y for myself in ages. I have been doing some research and half the time I don't even know what I am reading. I end up having to look up terms I've never encountered before.

Budget? Software and games you will be running?

[XJDenton]

And will you also need a screen/keyboard etc?

[faizoff]

I am working on convincing myself I need a new computer. I probably do not need one, but mine has been crashing periodically, and I just saw Steam will soon stop running on Win7, which is what I have. I bought this machine in... checking... 2009. Plus I haven't bought anything gadget-y for myself in ages. I have been doing some research and half the time I don't even know what I am reading. I end up having to look up terms I've never encountered before.

The possibilities are endless!

but like mentioned, settle on a budget and go from there. These days the main components are very capable and performant. Are you building this yourself?

[El Barto]

Aside from crashing all the time, and the Steam thing, does it do what you want it to do? Since you've got Steam you presumably play a couple of games. Does it run them adequately? As I understand it, W11 is right out without a new build, but simply updating to W10 will solve both of the problems you've mentioned, and will only set you back $100-150.

[cramx3]

Speaking of, are people here using Windows 11?  I haven't upgraded and don't really want to.  My one friend has nothing but issues since he upgraded with games crashing.  Could be another issue, who knows with this friend, but I haven't actually read or heard anything positive that I can recall from W11.

[El Barto]

Speaking of, are people here using Windows 11?  I haven't upgraded and don't really want to.  My one friend has nothing but issues since he upgraded with games crashing.  Could be another issue, who knows with this friend, but I haven't actually read or heard anything positive that I can recall from W11.

It's unlikely I'll upgrade until it's to Win13 or 14, and only then after it's well established. I make it a point to be the last onboard with OS "upgrades," and I normally skip one or two of them. There's also the fact that, as I understand it, I'll need new hardware to move up, and that's hopefully another 8 years or so. Lastly, everything works right now. Everything looks the way I want it. Everything's laid out the way I want it. I've got Macrium backups saved off to a spare HDD. I don't want to spend two years trying to get a new OS where I want it.

Hell, the hardest part for me is keeping my W10 machines from upgrading themselves while I sleep. I'm scared that one of the machines at work will update itself and then propagate through the network to update everybody else, like Skynet. 

[ReaperKK]

Yea, I've been using it on my main gaming rig since public launch. It's really Win 10.5. It fixes a ton of annoying things that I had to deal with window 10 such as audio switching. HDR support is way better and a lot of the QOL improvements are nice like tabbed file explorer.

I haven't experienced any crashing, slowdowns, or weirdness with Win 11 (current specs are i9-9900k + 3080). Did your buddy upgrade or do a full format to win 11?

[nobloodyname]

I've been using it since launch, too. All fine here.

It's worth it just for the win+alt+b HDR shortcut for me. Or has that been added to Windows 10 now?

[ReaperKK]

I only discovered win+alt+b a few weeks ago

[El Barto]

Yea, I've been using it on my main gaming rig since public launch. It's really Win 10.5. It fixes a ton of annoying things that I had to deal with window 10 such as audio switching. HDR support is way better and a lot of the QOL improvements are nice like tabbed file explorer.

I haven't experienced any crashing, slowdowns, or weirdness with Win 11 (current specs are i9-9900k + 3080). Did your buddy upgrade or do a full format to win 11?

Audio switching in W10 does indeed suck (though still far better than XP). What did they fix?

[ReaperKK]

It'll stop automatically changing audio sources when it detects new ones (like doing a driver update will sometimes change you to your monitors HDMI audio output). Additionally when you disable an audio source it'll stay disabled until you re-enable it again.

[cramx3]

Audio switching is shit, agreed.  That's could be a good enough reason alone to upgrade  but like El Barto, my interest isn't to screw up with my build.  I had to reinstall windows last year (I ran out of space on my C M.2 so upgraded to a new one) and now I'd rather not do that again for a bit.  I'll likely just wait until I upgrade my mobo/CPU again in a year or so and do the required rebuild. 

I haven't experienced any crashing, slowdowns, or weirdness with Win 11 (current specs are i9-9900k + 3080). Did your buddy upgrade or do a full format to win 11?

He's done a lot of clean installs, I'm starting to think it's something hardware related with him, but its just weird how he can't consistently play COD with me for example.  His game wouldn't even load for awhile until he did another reinstall, and then he's still got crashes.  I don't know, I just relate his issues to Windows 11 because he didn't have any of this until he upgraded.  But I also told him not to be the guinea pig.

[Duppies_Don_Dacid]

I've had zero OS-related issues since moving to Windows 11 about 8 months ago. No problems with games or any other software. Haven't crashed once. No blue screens.

I get waiting before moving to a new OS, hell I was on XP until the very last second when all support was pulled. However, I've been impressed with 11 so far. Unless you have hardware issues I see no reason not to upgrade.

[faizoff]

That's a new one about audio switching issues in Win 10. I've been using it since its release and have never had any audio-switching issues. It's been very smooth for me even with the different sound cards I've used.

I've had Win 11 on a VM and have been casually using it. The only reason I haven't made the switch for my main PC is due to not being able to pin things on the start menu the way I want it to be arranged. They've made decent progress so far but some taskbar changes also prevent me from making the switches. It's nothing gregarious but small things that would annoy me no end as I've gotten used to doing them on a daily basis.

[El Barto]

I've had zero OS-related issues since moving to Windows 11 about 8 months ago. No problems with games or any other software. Haven't crashed once. No blue screens.

I get waiting before moving to a new OS, hell I was on XP until the very last second when all support was pulled. However, I've been impressed with 11 so far. Unless you have hardware issues I see no reason not to upgrade.

That's kind of an odd stance. It seems to me that if you have no reason to upgrade, why would you? Hell, just finding new versions of all of the programs you have installed is enough of a PITA to make me skip it. Case in point, I've got two monitors and a 57" TV plugged in. I've got 3 profiles set up based on the direction and orientation of the monitors. I've got shortcuts setup to expedite that. I've got a program that resizes and snaps programs to specific sections of monitors. Just figuring out how to recreate that on a new OS would take hours. If I don't have any problems, why bother? Factor in settings within programs, like hotkeys for two different media players, and such. Reinstalling games and mod managers. It goes on and on. When it's something I need to do I'll suck it up and do it. It's not something I'll do for no particular reason.

Also, I've spent way, way too much time making sure that Windows can never update itself without me making it happen. I'm sure it's even harder now, if not outright impossible. That's enough of a reason for me to put it off.

[El Barto]

That's a new one about audio switching issues in Win 10. I've been using it since its release and have never had any audio-switching issues. It's been very smooth for me even with the different sound cards I've used.

My issue is that I'll sometimes change the output of a media player or Firefox, and even though Win10 remembers the change, I'll have to re-do it to actually get sound. However, it's quite possible that's a problem with the programs rather than Windows. There's also an issue where it won't differentiate instances of the same program. I might want football output to the HDMI, while other instances of Firefox stay with the speakers so I can hear Youtube and whatnot. While Windows will show the different instances in that dialouge, and even let you set them separately, functionally they're all the same. (I've taken to using Edge for football now so-as to not change the Firefox settings.)

Windows has always sucked at handling separate audio sources. Each version makes it slightly better, but it's never right, and sometimes screws up something else along the way. This goes all the way back to my All In Wonder Pro days.

[cramx3]

It's also not a simple click to change audio outputs.  I had an app I downloaded that added this to the task bar and was so useful, but who ever made it never kept it up to date and it eventually stopped working.

I've had a few audio issues with windows 10 as well, specifically when doing audio driver updates. One time it corrupted my entire windows.  I have no idea how and I had to reinstall windows to fix it.  Also some windows updates would mess with my audio settings.  I dont know how or why.  It's just very frustrating as someone who often switches between headphones and speakers on my windows PC.  It should be a lot simpler.

[faizoff]

I've been using it since launch, too. All fine here.

It's worth it just for the win+alt+b HDR shortcut for me. Or has that been added to Windows 10 now?

I only discovered win+alt+b a few weeks ago

Oh wow I had no idea that existed and I'm a shortcuts junkie. Though honestly I had the Windows HDR implementation. I like the monitor hardware setting to turn on HDR a lot better. Plus I don't really have a true HDR monitor, it's those fake turn up the brightness really high HDRs.

[ReaperKK]

The real OP of shortcuts is shift+win+S. Shoutout to win+. as well

[El Barto]

It's also not a simple click to change audio outputs.  I had an app I downloaded that added this to the task bar and was so useful, but who ever made it never kept it up to date and it eventually stopped working.

You have to research how to do it, it's not at all intuitive, but you can create a desktop shortcut to the application audio menu. I think it might be "advanced audio settings." I often have to go into the thing several times a day to change stuff, so it's a real help.

[Duppies_Don_Dacid]

I've had zero OS-related issues since moving to Windows 11 about 8 months ago. No problems with games or any other software. Haven't crashed once. No blue screens.

I get waiting before moving to a new OS, hell I was on XP until the very last second when all support was pulled. However, I've been impressed with 11 so far. Unless you have hardware issues I see no reason not to upgrade.

That's kind of an odd stance. It seems to me that if you have no reason to upgrade, why would you? Hell, just finding new versions of all of the programs you have installed is enough of a PITA to make me skip it. Case in point, I've got two monitors and a 57" TV plugged in. I've got 3 profiles set up based on the direction and orientation of the monitors. I've got shortcuts setup to expedite that. I've got a program that resizes and snaps programs to specific sections of monitors. Just figuring out how to recreate that on a new OS would take hours. If I don't have any problems, why bother? Factor in settings within programs, like hotkeys for two different media players, and such. Reinstalling games and mod managers. It goes on and on. When it's something I need to do I'll suck it up and do it. It's not something I'll do for no particular reason.

Also, I've spent way, way too much time making sure that Windows can never update itself without me making it happen. I'm sure it's even harder now, if not outright impossible. That's enough of a reason for me to put it off.

Ah, I misspoke. I didn't mean everyone should just upgrade to 11 regardless of what they have going on with their PCs. I just meant if you've been thinking of upgrading or want to upgrade, I personally have not seen any reason to wait at this point. I definitely understand the issues with certain programs and hardware being a pain to set up in new operating systems. Also getting a new OS setup the way you like is also time consuming. And like you said, if your PC and OS is doing everything you need it to, then there is no reason to upgrade.

[faizoff]

That's a new one about audio switching issues in Win 10. I've been using it since its release and have never had any audio-switching issues. It's been very smooth for me even with the different sound cards I've used.

My issue is that I'll sometimes change the output of a media player or Firefox, and even though Win10 remembers the change, I'll have to re-do it to actually get sound. However, it's quite possible that's a problem with the programs rather than Windows. There's also an issue where it won't differentiate instances of the same program. I might want football output to the HDMI, while other instances of Firefox stay with the speakers so I can hear Youtube and whatnot. While Windows will show the different instances in that dialouge, and even let you set them separately, functionally they're all the same. (I've taken to using Edge for football now so-as to not change the Firefox settings.)

Windows has always sucked at handling separate audio sources. Each version makes it slightly better, but it's never right, and sometimes screws up something else along the way. This goes all the way back to my All In Wonder Pro days.

Interesting.. like I said I have a DAC right now that's connected through USB and I also have speakers connected directly via the audio panel to the board and anytime I switch between the two I have never had to do anything other than turn on and off and it auto switches. I don't use HDMI output for sound but I did test it and even then there was no issue.

[faizoff]

The real OP of shortcuts is shift+win+S. Shoutout to win+. as well

I use those daily and in my line of work do it a 100 times a day. People are always amazed at how many shortcuts I use and not need the help of my mouse for so many things.

[El Barto]

That's a new one about audio switching issues in Win 10. I've been using it since its release and have never had any audio-switching issues. It's been very smooth for me even with the different sound cards I've used.

My issue is that I'll sometimes change the output of a media player or Firefox, and even though Win10 remembers the change, I'll have to re-do it to actually get sound. However, it's quite possible that's a problem with the programs rather than Windows. There's also an issue where it won't differentiate instances of the same program. I might want football output to the HDMI, while other instances of Firefox stay with the speakers so I can hear Youtube and whatnot. While Windows will show the different instances in that dialouge, and even let you set them separately, functionally they're all the same. (I've taken to using Edge for football now so-as to not change the Firefox settings.)

Windows has always sucked at handling separate audio sources. Each version makes it slightly better, but it's never right, and sometimes screws up something else along the way. This goes all the way back to my All In Wonder Pro days.

Interesting.. like I said I have a DAC right now that's connected through USB and I also have speakers connected directly via the audio panel to the board and anytime I switch between the two I have never had to do anything other than turn on and off and it auto switches. I don't use HDMI output for sound but I did test it and even then there was no issue.

Now that is interesting. I've never seen Windows auto-switch jack shit.  I mean, certainly not when it would make sense to do so.

That said, what you're describing does make since, though. When you power off the DAC it presumably disappears as a sound device, so it would necessarily move to a different one. My DAC (connected w/Toslink and external power), speakers, and my receiver are always "connected," whether they're powered on or not. That's by design. I use a power strip to completely power off my receiver,* but since the HDMI out is actually part of the graphics card it never actually goes away as a sound device.

BTW, don't know what you're using the DAC for, but USB power is supposed to be rather dirty for DACs. I doubt it's anything 99% would ever notice, but people who use DACs are probably looking for the best sounding audio possible. I know in headphone circles it's frowned upon.



*Turns out that at normal listening volume my receiver pulls about 120w. When it's powered off, what they call standby mode, it pulls 90w. That surprised the hell out of me. Unplugging it (by switching off the power strip) is saving me about $8/mo. The more you know. . .

[faizoff]

I'm using a FiiO K5Pro, not a very flashy DAC/AMP combo but it drives my Sennheiser 6xx quite well plus I got it used so paid half of what it was new. It has its own power source, the USB is just the audio passthrough from the board to the DAC.

[El Barto]

Reading up on Starfield is kind of pissing me off. I was unaware of the partnership with AMD. One of the nice things about playing games on a PC is that I don't have to worry about platform wars. Except, now I do, apparently. It seems that those of us with Nvidia GPUs (in other words, all of us) now get the short end of it as a consequence. It's not necessarily that Beth intentionally borked their RTX support, although that might well be the case, or that they wouldn't implement DLSS in favour of AMD's inferior FSR, but the optimization for AMD GPUs is massively better. We're talking about as much as 46% across otherwise comparable graphics cards. Same issues with Intel CPUs, where their HT support is bungled, while the AMD HT equivalent works well. For a lot of people this might be the difference between playing on medium instead of high, or high instead of ultra, because they chose an arguably better card than Beth's corporate partner.

In the past it always seemed like game developers were trying to perform well for all gamers. Now it would seem that, as is so often the case, taking care of your corporate partners is more profitable than taking care of your customers. Suffice it to say, I'm not at all excited about giving those people $75 for their game (and I was 24 hours ago).

[Cool Chris]

Aside from crashing all the time, and the Steam thing, does it do what you want it to do? Since you've got Steam you presumably play a couple of games. Does it run them adequately? As I understand it, W11 is right out without a new build, but simply updating to W10 will solve both of the problems you've mentioned, and will only set you back $100-150.

Yes, it basically does. So I am just trying to justify buying something that I do not really need, just because I want one and haven't treated myself to anything in a long while.

[nobloodyname]

The real OP of shortcuts is shift+win+S. Shoutout to win+. as well

Yes! I had to try both of those to remember what they were. Which is funny because I use both of them virtually every day Just goes to show how important muscle memory is!

[nobloodyname]

Reading up on Starfield is kind of pissing me off. I was unaware of the partnership with AMD. One of the nice things about playing games on a PC is that I don't have to worry about platform wars. Except, now I do, apparently. It seems that those of us with Nvidia GPUs (in other words, all of us) now get the short end of it as a consequence. It's not necessarily that Beth intentionally borked their RTX support, although that might well be the case, or that they wouldn't implement DLSS in favour of AMD's inferior FSR, but the optimization for AMD GPUs is massively better. We're talking about as much as 46% across otherwise comparable graphics cards. Same issues with Intel CPUs, where their HT support is bungled, while the AMD HT equivalent works well. For a lot of people this might be the difference between playing on medium instead of high, or high instead of ultra, because they chose an arguably better card than Beth's corporate partner.

In the past it always seemed like game developers were trying to perform well for all gamers. Now it would seem that, as is so often the case, taking care of your corporate partners is more profitable than taking care of your customers. Suffice it to say, I'm not at all excited about giving those people $75 for their game (and I was 24 hours ago).

Yup.

Even my 4090 can't provide 60 FPS at 5120x1440. Digital Foundry did a piece on how hamstrung Nvidia cards are through Bethesda's relationship with AMD. Still, at least official DLSS support is on the way. It's not even doing anything particularly impressive graphically.

[faizoff]

Wow didn't realize it was that bad, I mean if a 4090 can't get 60 fps at 1440 then what chance does any other card have.

[nobloodyname]

Well, it's double the width of standard 1440, to be fair, but still lower than 4k in terms of total pixel count. It's ridiculous. And it's doing nowhere near as much graphically as Cyberpunk, for example. I'm getting about 90 FPS, admittedly with DLSS on quality, but it's doing a metric shit tonne of raytracing in that, too.

[cramx3]

I wasn't aware of Bethesda's relationship to AMD.  That's lame.

[El Barto]

Yeah, that's a lot of what I'm seeing. Cyberpunk is doing a whole lot more, including lots of RT that Starfield doesn't use, and getting far better performance. It's not necessarily that Nvidia cards are sucking, but rather that AMD cards are punching way, way outside of their weight class. Clearly Beth just spent all of their efforts optimizing it for AMD with little or no emphasis on Nvidia.

For me it's just the principle of the thing. I don't mind Beth shipping buggy games. With the games they're producing they're not going to get them working right without millions of man hours played. I do think they're taking advantage of their customers, though. Frankly, AMD is worth more to them than the customers they lose because of this.

[faizoff]

IIRC wasn't AMD sponsoring part of the game development? It's probably why some of it was meant to work well with just the AMD components. I'm going to get gamepass for a month and install and see how it play on my UW with a 3440x1440 resolution.

[cramx3]

I dont think they are losing too many customers from this though.  It's already Bethesda's biggest game at launch with over 10 million players. It does just suck because, and I dont have a stat just a gut feeling, that AMD GPUs are much less than Nvidia.  So that would sound like they prioritized their corporate partner over their customers which sucks. 

I remember Cyberpunk being one of the first games to really use ray tracing.  The whole RTX on/off meme.  But I do ask, would you rather the game be in a very good playable shape but not the best graphically like Starfield or look great but have a lot of issues like Cyberpunk? 

Apparently Cyberpunk got a big free update that makes the game completely different and recommended people to play a new game of it to see all the differences.  I'm not interested because Im digging into Starfield, but damn, makes me wonder what Cyberpunk could have been if it was released in this state.