The PC thread

[faizoff]

Would a surface laptop work? They fall in your price range. They look good for video editing.

Around 20 years ago; a computer genius told me to never buy hardware from a company that mainly makes software. Sounded like good advice at the time, is it not the case anymore? I mean, it's the main reason I haven't considered these.

20 years is a lifetime in tech. Things change so much in just a year. I personally don't have any of the surface products but my father in law uses a surface 4 tablet and vouches for it. I've read good things about the surface line esp since they are in so many iterations now.


The Asus laptop that Puppies linked looks great and one I'd probably consider as well. The Ryzen line has basically turned AMD's fortune the last few years and they've championed highly efficient CPUs with fantastic performance and the new Ryzen 4000 series powered laptops I've read are fantastic.


Oddly I've only ever owned AMD laptops and my desktops have all been Intel. Just turned out that way.


With regards to VGA vs HDMI display being sharper, I'm surprised you've had better results with VGA. It could be several things like native resolution scaling from laptop to monitor which is why you may have found VGA to be easier on the eyes. And as prior mentioned, you can disable the HDMI audio from the volume control panel.

[cramx3]

Personally, if you want a fantastic laptop for basic editing and not gaming.  I'd look at the low end Macbook Pros.  I've never been an apple fan, but I use a macbook pro for work and absolutely love it.  It's a total beast for pretty much everything (but gaming) and just works.

Having said that, I'm also a big fan of ASUS so I'll +1 on Puppies recommendation.  But I didn't see anyone mention the macbook route, but for basic laptop use, I think they are hard to beat other than in price but I believe the low end is in your range.  My one friend hounds me every 3 years on which laptop to get because he always buys low end ones that just start breaking down after a couple years.  For the last few rounds I was saying to him, spend a little more and stop having issues.  He finally this year got a macbook and has so far loved it. 

My work laptop has traveled over 100k miles with me, gets carried in a backpack every day, has been dropped off a ladder, you name it... and NO ISSUES.  OK, fine, when I dropped it off the latter the screen broke and I had to get a new screen (our internal help desk was able to do that for me), but the guts of the sucker were still fine and I'm dreading the day I have to return it.

[XJDenton]

I use a thinkpad, because I like a laptop that is sturdy enough to use as an improvised weapon.

On a related note, I think with the release of the 3xxx series, and Cyberpunk on the way, I will be building a new PC for the first time since 2010.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Personally, if you want a fantastic laptop for basic editing and not gaming.  I'd look at the low end Macbook Pros.  I've never been an apple fan, but I use a macbook pro for work and absolutely love it.  It's a total beast for pretty much everything (but gaming) and just works.

Having said that, I'm also a big fan of ASUS so I'll +1 on Puppies recommendation.  But I didn't see anyone mention the macbook route, but for basic laptop use, I think they are hard to beat other than in price but I believe the low end is in your range.  My one friend hounds me every 3 years on which laptop to get because he always buys low end ones that just start breaking down after a couple years.  For the last few rounds I was saying to him, spend a little more and stop having issues.  He finally this year got a macbook and has so far loved it. 

My work laptop has traveled over 100k miles with me, gets carried in a backpack every day, has been dropped off a ladder, you name it... and NO ISSUES.  OK, fine, when I dropped it off the latter the screen broke and I had to get a new screen (our internal help desk was able to do that for me), but the guts of the sucker were still fine and I'm dreading the day I have to return it.

Unless you need the MacOS environment for something in particular, I couldn't in good conscience recommend an Apple laptop. It all boils down to, you will get worse specs for WAY more money. And if you aren't used to the MacOS environment, it's going to be a lesson in frustration. Add to that their extremely questionable cooling solutions and I just don't ever see them as a viable option. But that's just me. I use one for work because I have to for certain software. I also have an Asus laptop that I love.

[cramx3]

Personally, if you want a fantastic laptop for basic editing and not gaming.  I'd look at the low end Macbook Pros.  I've never been an apple fan, but I use a macbook pro for work and absolutely love it.  It's a total beast for pretty much everything (but gaming) and just works.

Having said that, I'm also a big fan of ASUS so I'll +1 on Puppies recommendation.  But I didn't see anyone mention the macbook route, but for basic laptop use, I think they are hard to beat other than in price but I believe the low end is in your range.  My one friend hounds me every 3 years on which laptop to get because he always buys low end ones that just start breaking down after a couple years.  For the last few rounds I was saying to him, spend a little more and stop having issues.  He finally this year got a macbook and has so far loved it. 

My work laptop has traveled over 100k miles with me, gets carried in a backpack every day, has been dropped off a ladder, you name it... and NO ISSUES.  OK, fine, when I dropped it off the latter the screen broke and I had to get a new screen (our internal help desk was able to do that for me), but the guts of the sucker were still fine and I'm dreading the day I have to return it.

Unless you need the MacOS environment for something in particular, I couldn't in good conscience recommend an Apple laptop. It all boils down to, you will get worse specs for WAY more money. And if you aren't used to the MacOS environment, it's going to be a lesson in frustration. Add to that their extremely questionable cooling solutions and I just don't ever see them as a viable option. But that's just me. I use one for work because I have to for certain software. I also have an Asus laptop that I love.

Sure you pay a lot more for "less" but the thing just works well.  No issues at all.  For basic laptop usage, it's hard not to recommend it.  The macos is different but its also very simple so once you get the flow, it's super easy.  I think it's great for people who need basic usage (or are big in media editing), have the money, and aren't technically savy to deal with issues that may arise from a Windows based laptop.

[Progmetty]

With regards to VGA vs HDMI display being sharper, I'm surprised you've had better results with VGA. It could be several things like native resolution scaling from laptop to monitor which is why you may have found VGA to be easier on the eyes. And as prior mentioned, you can disable the HDMI audio from the volume control panel.

Make sure when it's connected that the laptop is outputting the native resolution of the display through HDMI. It could be as simple as the laptop defaulting to 1920x1080 when the display is something else, then the display scales it and it isn't as sharp. If it has its own brightness/contrast controls and such see if they're set to the same values on both VGA and HDMI.

Most laptops default to HDMI audio when one is plugged in but it can be changed. I'm still on Windows 7 (you might be too though?), you can right-click the speaker icon in the tray (while HDMI is up and running), select playback devices, and switch back to the speaker output. While in there, also make speaker output the default, so that it won't automatically switch to HDMI anymore.

Thanks for the tips guys! I'll try that out this weekend.

The Asus laptop that Puppies linked looks great and one I'd probably consider as well. The Ryzen line has basically turned AMD's fortune the last few years and they've championed highly efficient CPUs with fantastic performance and the new Ryzen 4000 series powered laptops I've read are fantastic.

Yeah they do look great! well they're pretty ugly looking but I mean the specs and reviews look great, from my research so far!
Which is kinda weird cause I've always thought that Asus to laptops is like Vizio to TV's, you get it when you're broke and you know it won't live long but it's better than nothing. But I guess things have changed.

Personally, if you want a fantastic laptop for basic editing and not gaming.  I'd look at the low end Macbook Pros.  I've never been an apple fan, but I use a macbook pro for work and absolutely love it.  It's a total beast for pretty much everything (but gaming) and just works.

I've considered that for a split second then I was hit by the horrors of having to deal with a new operating system, having lived under Bill Gates thumb for my entire adult life.

On a related note, I think with the release of the 3xxx series, and Cyberpunk on the way, I will be building a new PC for the first time since 2010.

Somebody told me to wait on buying a new computer specifically for that reason, new tech coming out soon and it should drive the current generation down in price, but he may have been talking about desktop computers.

I'm also seriously considering stretching my laptop's life to reach Cyber Monday, it could bring some out-of-reach options to my lap, like the Dell 15 or 13. But for now; that Asus takes the cake as my best option.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

The Asus laptop that Puppies linked looks great and one I'd probably consider as well. The Ryzen line has basically turned AMD's fortune the last few years and they've championed highly efficient CPUs with fantastic performance and the new Ryzen 4000 series powered laptops I've read are fantastic.

Yeah they do look great! well they're pretty ugly looking but I mean the specs and reviews look great, from my research so far!
Which is kinda weird cause I've always thought that Asus to laptops is like Vizio to TV's, you get it when you're broke and you know it won't live long but it's better than nothing. But I guess things have changed.

Asus has made some really quality stuff over the last 6-8 years.

[XJDenton]

They are certainly excellent when it comes to base components. I think every motherboard I've bought since about 2004 was an Asus. The one laptop I used by them was also decent.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Reviews for the 3080 FE are now rolling out. From my limited knowledge about gpus in general it seems that the 3080 FE is a really good card for the price if you compare to previous generations however it's not that consistently better than NVIDIA claims in every benchmark (surprise surprise) but that's also where things gets so damn complicated, atleast for me. The numbers usually don't tell the full story if you know what I mean. So many diffrent factors are in play like cpu bottleneck and so on, to much for me to process. 

I'll add that in general Ray Tracing is the way to go for the proper next gen graphics and DLSS is amazing.

I'm looking forward to the 3090 reviews next week.

[faizoff]

Yeah I was just looking at some of the reviews, each reviewer has their own approach. I'm really liking how Gamers Nexus does it. They deep dive into so much stuff and where people get led down the wrong assumption path etc.. They just upgraded their bench and have some really cool stuff to measure thermals.

Their 3080 review to me is like the Anandtech version on video.


I might consider this card sometime next year after building my new PC.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Yeah I was just looking at some of the reviews, each reviewer has their own approach. I'm really liking how Gamers Nexus does it. They deep dive into so much stuff and where people get led down the wrong assumption path etc.. They just upgraded their bench and have some really cool stuff to measure thermals.

Their 3080 review to me is like the Anandtech version on video.


I might consider this card sometime next year after building my new PC.

I like Gamer Nexus alot, he's very knowledgable and informative. I found this to be great too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbk7sC2vAkU&t=0s&ab_channel=Paul%27sHardware

The end of the year will be interesting for PC gamers. Looking forward too the third party versions, 3090, Ti versions? but also what AMD will bring to the table, exciting times ahead. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Yeah, I'm definitely getting the 3080 after all the rush has died down in a couple months.............unless AMD releases something amazing with RDNA2, which by early leaks and reports is not going to come close, so................

[cramx3]

A few of my gamer friends were up early to refresh webpages to try and snag a 3080, it seems impossible    I'm in no rush myself so I can wait

[faizoff]

Reddit is on a meltdown on how no one was able to snag one. I wanted to see myself during release and the stock at Best Buy went instantly from Coming Soon to Sold Out.

Nvidia didn't take any preorders, wonder if there isn't much stock availability to begin with. Or they grossly underestimated the demand.

Either way I'm in no rush as well so will just wait and see how things are next year.

[cramx3]

I'm not entirely sure of the strategy here either, unless it's just to create hype and demand which I guess may work?  My one friend really needs an upgrade so he's been trying really hard to get one including taking today off work 

[Evermind]

I'm not entirely sure of the strategy here either, unless it's just to create hype and demand which I guess may work?  My one friend really needs an upgrade so he's been trying really hard to get one including taking today off work 

I suspect it's that. They'll claim it was sold out for its original price and the next wave will probably cost more.

Either that or somebody screwed up and the product wasn't ready I guess.

[faizoff]

Another theory I read is that Nvidia wanted to get ahead of the AMD/PS5/Xbox launch with some product availability. It more or less looks like a paper launch. Though there are several being listed on Ebay for twice the price.

[ReaperKK]

Yeah, I'm definitely getting the 3080 after all the rush has died down in a couple months.............unless AMD releases something amazing with RDNA2, which by early leaks and reports is not going to come close, so................

I wanted the 3090 myself but really I don't need it nor do I have the monitor utilize it. Plus for the price of a 3090 I can snag a 3080 and ps5.

[faizoff]

Steve from Gamers Nexus had a pretty good video on the reported availability of the 3080. Basically it boiled down to unprecedented demand this time round due to various factors as supply remained about the same as last 2080 launch.

It is quite extraordinary that within a 30 sec window pretty much all launch stock seemed to have been obliterated. More stock is to be expected soon.

[ReaperKK]

I'm not surprised that things sold out so quickly. Lots of people skipped the 20xx series of cards because it was debuting more of a feature set rather than raw power. This new 30xx is now immensely more powerful at a better price point than previous gen. Lots of people are going to make the jump from 10xx to 30xx.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Not to mention, the majority of cards were picked up by bots/resellers/scalpers. 

[Progmetty]

I was able to extend my 10-year old laptop's life a little bit, hoping it will get me to Cyber Monday.
I did install fresh Windows 7, first time since I got the laptop in 2010.
Re-installing all my software, I came across two interesting revelations:
1- True Crypt is gone! Their website says it's not safe anymore since they stopped working on it two years ago. I feel like they should have started a massive email campaign to let everybody know, I've been using it! Now there's something called Vera Crypt so I got that and it looks exactly like True Crypt, I don't get it.
2- Kaspersky has apparently become an enemy of the state. I knew it was Russian but I never thought much of it! Some of the discussions I've been reading as a result of that, people are saying well we don't need an antivirus anymore since Windows has an integrated one now.
I'd love to stop paying $230/year, but can I really trust Microsoft with quality anti-virus? I mean Kaseprsky has been such a peace of mind thus far.
Are you Windows 10 folks using the Windows antivirus or still on third-party software?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I was able to extend my 10-year old laptop's life a little bit, hoping it will get me to Cyber Monday.
I did install fresh Windows 7, first time since I got the laptop in 2010.
Re-installing all my software, I came across two interesting revelations:
1- True Crypt is gone! Their website says it's not safe anymore since they stopped working on it two years ago. I feel like they should have started a massive email campaign to let everybody know, I've been using it! Now there's something called Vera Crypt so I got that and it looks exactly like True Crypt, I don't get it.
2- Kaspersky has apparently become an enemy of the state. I knew it was Russian but I never thought much of it! Some of the discussions I've been reading as a result of that, people are saying well we don't need an antivirus anymore since Windows has an integrated one now.
I'd love to stop paying $230/year, but can I really trust Microsoft with quality anti-virus? I mean Kaseprsky has been such a peace of mind thus far.
Are you Windows 10 folks using the Windows antivirus or still on third-party software?

I use the Windows anti-virus because it's lightweight and it works well. I also use the free version of Malwarebytes to catch the occasional thing that Microsoft misses, which is rare.

[cramx3]

I was able to extend my 10-year old laptop's life a little bit, hoping it will get me to Cyber Monday.
I did install fresh Windows 7, first time since I got the laptop in 2010.
Re-installing all my software, I came across two interesting revelations:
1- True Crypt is gone! Their website says it's not safe anymore since they stopped working on it two years ago. I feel like they should have started a massive email campaign to let everybody know, I've been using it! Now there's something called Vera Crypt so I got that and it looks exactly like True Crypt, I don't get it.
2- Kaspersky has apparently become an enemy of the state. I knew it was Russian but I never thought much of it! Some of the discussions I've been reading as a result of that, people are saying well we don't need an antivirus anymore since Windows has an integrated one now.
I'd love to stop paying $230/year, but can I really trust Microsoft with quality anti-virus? I mean Kaseprsky has been such a peace of mind thus far.
Are you Windows 10 folks using the Windows antivirus or still on third-party software?

I use the Windows anti-virus because it's lightweight and it works well. I also use the free version of Malwarebytes to catch the occasional thing that Microsoft misses, which is rare.

Yea, I never paid for a anti-virus because I used to always use the free Malwarebytes, but these days I just use the windows basic defender.  I can't recall the last time it's ever even caught a virus.  The best prevention from a virus is to just be smart about your own actions.  I would totally say not to put any money into anti-virus software unless you know someone who uses that laptop is going to click on anything they see.

[faizoff]

I was able to extend my 10-year old laptop's life a little bit, hoping it will get me to Cyber Monday.
I did install fresh Windows 7, first time since I got the laptop in 2010.
Re-installing all my software, I came across two interesting revelations:
1- True Crypt is gone! Their website says it's not safe anymore since they stopped working on it two years ago. I feel like they should have started a massive email campaign to let everybody know, I've been using it! Now there's something called Vera Crypt so I got that and it looks exactly like True Crypt, I don't get it.
2- Kaspersky has apparently become an enemy of the state. I knew it was Russian but I never thought much of it! Some of the discussions I've been reading as a result of that, people are saying well we don't need an antivirus anymore since Windows has an integrated one now.
I'd love to stop paying $230/year, but can I really trust Microsoft with quality anti-virus? I mean Kaseprsky has been such a peace of mind thus far.
Are you Windows 10 folks using the Windows antivirus or still on third-party software?

I extended the life of my wife's 11 year old laptop by putting an SSD and free upgrade to windows 10 from 7. Win 10 runs a lot lighter than win 7 and even boots up much faster. It's still got legs for a Toshiba Satellite 2009 laptop.

[Grappler]

I just replaced my 2015 Toshiba Satellite with an HP.  It's a work owned laptop and the thing is much, much better.  I have a subscription to Trend Micro anti-virus that my boss pays, and is required by my company if I'm going to be using the laptop for work purposes. 

I also just replaced my home desktop, which was a 2010 Dell.  I found a Lenovo tower on Best Buy's site, with a 1TB hard drive and 8 gigs of memory.  I was using Kaspersky, but just switched to Webroot and added it to the subscription that we have for my wife's laptop.  Why subscribe to two different ones, when we can get 3 devices on one subscription? 

I wouldn't trust going without a subscription anti virus.

[pg1067]

Here's a question for folks more knowledgeable than I (which is probably anyone reading this thread):

My 18-year old wants a new computer for digital music production (rap and hip hop stuff).  He sent me a list of parts and is thinking of trying to build it himself.  He has no experience or particular learning in this area, but one or more of his friends has told him that it's not that difficult to do.  I googled "how hard is it to build a PC," and the first couple search results seemed to support that.  Nonetheless, my concern is that he/I will buy a bunch of expensive components and he'll mess something up or he'll do it right and it still won't work.

So...

Am I being overly concerned?  Is it really not that difficult?  Is it really possible just to buy a case, a mother board, a processor, etc. and put them together and get a computer that will kick ass?

What are the pitfalls?  Traps to avoid?

What is he likely to have overlooked with his list of parts (I copied his list below, and this is obviously just the PC and doesn't include any software or peripherals)?

Thanks!


His list:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700x 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor

Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition 42 CFM CPU Cooler

MSI B450 Tomahawk Max ATX AM4 Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL 16 Memory

Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive

MSI Radeon RX 580 8 GB Armor OC video card

Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case

Corsair CXM 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX power supply

Windows 10 Pro

A monitor

So...we started building this thing yesterday.  A completely different parts list (in part based on recommendations here (thanks again) and in part based on my son's own further research).

Everything went pretty smoothly, but we won't know if it actually works since the graphics card is still on order, so we didn't finish.  A couple things:

1.  We had a bunch of screws left over.  I assume that's normal.

2.  We were not entirely sure where to plug in some of the case controls.  Specifically, I wasn't entire sure where to plug in the power, reset and LCD +/- connectors.  Also, the case we got has a bunch of built in fans, and I we couldn't figure out where those go either.  I plugged in the power/reset/LCD connectors but am not completely confident about where they go.  The fan connectors we just left hanging for now.

We got this case -- https://www.bestbuy.com/site/corsair-icue-220t-rgb-airflow-atx-mid-tower-smart-case-black/6370550.p?skuId=6370550 -- and this motherboard -- https://www.newegg.com/asus-prime-x570-p/p/N82E16813119199

Any help in trying to figure out the inputs?

[cramx3]

You have the manual for the motherboard?  That should tell you where the plug ins on the motherboard are for the fans.  It's possible, you have more fans than interfaces on the motherboard though.  I know I do.  Plugging them into the motherboard will give you some control over them, but you can also just plug them into the power from the PSU if you have some of the connectors.  That will at least get them spinning.  Also you'll need to reference the manual for the case buttons.  They should pretty much all go into the one chunk of pins.  If you plug them in incorrectly, it just wont work but I dont think you risk breaking anything.  You can try flipping them (there's a +/- on some of them). 

Also, usually, the motherboard has some small labels so you can look closely on the board itself for guidance on where to connect things.

[The Walrus]

Have you checked the motherboard manual? There should be a diagram in there re: connections.

EDIT: ninja'd by cram

[faizoff]

Any help in trying to figure out the inputs?

I looked up the manual for your board here


On page 15 it shows a diagram of where all the connectors go.





The leftover screws are fine, they are usually extra in case you lose some. The fan connectors I will take a look at the case manual, they usually mention where they go.


Fan layout is the next page and shows this, you'll have to match the case fan plugs to the sockets listed below

[pg1067]

You have the manual for the motherboard?

Have you checked the motherboard manual?

LOL.  Yeah...I'm not THAT dumb.

We got to this point right at the end of the time we wanted to spend on this, so we were both kind of burned and not in the mood to try and figure out the manual (much less the minuscule printing on the board itself).

Once again, you guys are awesome!  Much appreciated!!!  I'll throw up some pics at some point.  I have to admit it looks pretty cool.

[The Walrus]

Connecting those really small connectors can be a PITA sometimes.

[pg1067]

HOLY SHIT, IT WORKED!!!!!!!

We were a bit confused with the fan connections mentioned in faizoff's post since the plugs from the fan are 3-pin, and the motherboard spots marked are 4-pin, but my son figured that out during the day yesterday.  He also did a bit of "cable management

Then the graphics "card" arrived yesterday -- a couple days ahead of schedule -- so we popped that in and hooked it up and then took it into my son's room for the moment of truth.

He plugged it in and then hit the power switch on the case...  and nothing happened, which we kind of both expected.  He then remembered that there's a power switch on the power supply (which I didn't know) and flicked that on.  Immediately, something on the motherboard lighted up, and then he hit the power switch on the case and the whole damn thing lighted up!  By the time I went to bed, he had Windows and Norton installed.  The ONLY negative was that he had a Funko Pop figure that he wanted to put in the case, but the head was too big.  Oh well.

The first picture below is obviously pre-graphics card, and the others are post-completion and post-startup.  THANKS AGAIN, YOU GUYS (and my son specifically said to let you know he also said thanks)!

[The Walrus]

That is awesome, dude! Glad it all worked out. Hell yeah. Happy gaming!!

[pg1067]

That is awesome, dude! Glad it all worked out. Hell yeah. Happy gaming!!

Hopefully more music than gaming, but yeah.  In a million years, I never would have thought we could do this without any significant snags.

After our hand writing battle, I owe you and faizoff a beer or two.