The PC thread

[faizoff]

I've had my PC for about 2.5 years now, and I think I'd like to upgrade it if possible. Basically looking to improve graphics in game, not stream or anything like that. What should I do?

Like cram said for game improvements you'll need to upgrade the video card and the market is overpriced in the 3rd party market and severely understocked at retail.
Basically people are just buying whatever they can get their hands on.

A viable option is to buy a prebuilt machine or if you have a microcenter near you they will help you build it plus they seem to have the best stock availability for graphic cards.

I'm going to assume you're currently playing at 1080 and want to push to 1440? with maybe a high refresh monitor? The 3070 or even 3060 Ti would be the sweet spot. Are you looking to upgrade your entire setup or just do it part by part?

[ReaperKK]

I'm getting really close to hitting my queue for a evga 3080 ftw3 so if I get one I'll be selling my evga 2080. Just depends on when I hit the queue.

[cramx3]

I'm getting really close to hitting my queue for a evga 3080 ftw3 so if I get one I'll be selling my evga 2080. Just depends on when I hit the queue.

The card I really wish I could have

[faizoff]

I'm getting really close to hitting my queue for a evga 3080 ftw3 so if I get one I'll be selling my evga 2080. Just depends on when I hit the queue.

That's really great! The card is really good and has run really quiet and not as hot as the 3080 Ti FE I previously had.

Didn't EVGA also do something odd/funny with their queue recently? I think they stopped accepting any new requests and then reversed it. Or something of that nature. I recall vaguely there being some outrage of the changes.

[lonestar]

Just got the notification to upgrade to 11. I'm a computer novice, my system is just 1 month old (mid level Dell Inspiron), and has basically nothing on it so far. I also have been using, and use a chromebook for my home web browsing/video streaming etc, this is basically a work computer. Thoughts on upgrade?

[cramx3]

I wouldn't unless you really need to for some reason. 

Personally, I will avoid 11 as long as possible.

[Orbert]

I always wait as long as possible before upgrading the operating system.  Right now, you're the guinea pigs.  We know that MS doesn't do proper testing on Windows, and that's not entirely their fault; with virtually infinite variations on hardware and software configurations out there, they can't test every single possibility.  But you can at least wait until a few months after rollout, by which time there will be plenty of info on techie forums and social media about problems common were certain setups, and hopefully MS has patched a few things.  Being an early adopter for an operating system is just asking for trouble.  Why upgrade when it's basically a given that they haven't worked out most of the bugs?

[faizoff]

Just got the notification to upgrade to 11. I'm a computer novice, my system is just 1 month old (mid level Dell Inspiron), and has basically nothing on it so far. I also have been using, and use a chromebook for my home web browsing/video streaming etc, this is basically a work computer. Thoughts on upgrade?

I've been running windows 11 on a Virtual environment since it got release on the dev channel to see the visual aspects and check out other features. There are some nice aesthetics to it and under the hood changes. Most obvious change is the start menu is by default in the middle of the taskbar and can be moved to the original spot. If you're a power user I think most of the changes will annoy you. Like cram I will try and hold out a while. I've done the same for many previous versions, for 7, 8 and 10. Oddly enough Vista was the only OS I jumped on right away lol. I'm one of the very few who had zero issues with it.

That said if you've got nothing to lose and aren't attached to the way you like to do things on the desktop then by all means you should be ok. You're typically given a set number of days to return to the previous version should you not like the new OS.

[El Barto]

I went from XP to 10, and I'll go from 10 to 14 if I can pull it off. 

[Herrick]

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the "last" Windows OS but they'd keep upgrading it?

[cramx3]

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the "last" Windows OS but they'd keep upgrading it?

Now where's the money in that?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I wouldn't unless you really need to for some reason. 

Personally, I will avoid 11 as long as possible.

100% this. I always tell my clients, unless you have a specific reason for needing to upgrade to 11 (and lets be honest here, there isn't really any good reason yet), don't upgrade.....at least not yet. Let the shitstorm surrounding a new OS settle for at least a year.

[lonestar]

Cool guys, good info all around, thank you. I'll wait for the bugs to shit themselves out at least.

[ReaperKK]

I'm getting really close to hitting my queue for a evga 3080 ftw3 so if I get one I'll be selling my evga 2080. Just depends on when I hit the queue.

That's really great! The card is really good and has run really quiet and not as hot as the 3080 Ti FE I previously had.

Didn't EVGA also do something odd/funny with their queue recently? I think they stopped accepting any new requests and then reversed it. Or something of that nature. I recall vaguely there being some outrage of the changes.

They've changed a lot with their queue such as now new requests and now only sending two invites out (I know some people have hopped in the queue for ever 30xx card)

[ReaperKK]

Welp a year later and my queue for my evga 3080 ftw3 ultra just hit. Gonna order when I get home.

[cramx3]

Welp a year later and my queue for my evga 3080 ftw3 ultra just hit. Gonna order when I get home.

 

How quick will you get it then?  Maybe just in time for Battlefield 2042

[ReaperKK]

Just ordered it, it'll be here in 3-5 days. I'm so pumped. I'm going to pick up battlefield and test this thing out.

[faizoff]

Congrats! I love my 3080 FTW3 Ultra, so quiet and cool the whole time I've used it.

[El Barto]

It occurs to me that GPU prices are probably never going to normalize, which sucks. Seems like they may well just keep supply limited for the duration of a series lifespan and then start the same process for the next. They've already stopped making most RTX2000 series cards, save for the 2060, and those are selling for high markups as the budget option. All they have to do is make sure there still aren't enough 3000 series cards to go around when Lovelace launches and the process begins anew. People will clamor to get the last, now obsolete 3000 cards at insane markups. And while this would ideally create a thriving market in used cards, those prices are artificially high because the market supports it. Non working 2060s are selling for right at what they were when they were new, and used but working ones are about double the original price, as people try to recoup the markups on the newer cards. Yeah capitalism!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

It occurs to me that GPU prices are probably never going to normalize, which sucks. Seems like they may well just keep supply limited for the duration of a series lifespan and then start the same process for the next. They've already stopped making most RTX2000 series cards, save for the 2060, and those are selling for high markups as the budget option. All they have to do is make sure there still aren't enough 3000 series cards to go around when Lovelace launches and the process begins anew. People will clamor to get the last, now obsolete 3000 cards at insane markups. And while this would ideally create a thriving market in used cards, those prices are artificially high because the market supports it. Non working 2060s are selling for right at what they were when they were new, and used but working ones are about double the original price, as people try to recoup the markups on the newer cards. Yeah capitalism!

The biggest problem with this is it's starting to trickle over into a lot of other things. Pretty soon everything is going to be double the price because of artificial shortages. Again, YAY CAPITALISM! 

[faizoff]

Yeah the prices of GPU will likely not normalize for some time. If people are willing to pay the high price now, it doesn't matter what they price it at. The product could suck or not offer any value but if they work, people will buy. It's crazy to think the demand is still insanely high with us now well over a year into the lockdown.

[cramx3]

I very much worry about my GPU frying like my 1080 did last year. 

I'm almost wondering if it's worth it to get on a waiting list for one of the GPUs (like a 3080 FTW) as a "just in case" and even if I don't need it when it's my turn, maybe still worth buying and then I could sell my 3070?

But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if I signed up for a waiting list and by the time it was my turn, a new product was already released or soon to be released that I'd rather have. 

[El Barto]

Does anybody have a signup queue other than EVGA (which currently does not)? I'm sure not seeing one, and the reality is that it's probably better to be fleeced now than fleeced later.

[cramx3]

Does anybody have a signup queue other than EVGA (which currently does not)? I'm sure not seeing one, and the reality is that it's probably better to be fleeced now than fleeced later.

Even though I wrote what I previously did, I have not done any actual research into getting onto a wait list.

[faizoff]

Does anybody have a signup queue other than EVGA (which currently does not)? I'm sure not seeing one, and the reality is that it's probably better to be fleeced now than fleeced later.

I don't know if anyone else has setup a queue system other than EVGA in the US. The prices are only trending upwards for the the board partners and that's why I decided to take the plunge as I'll be making use of it now rather than wait.  I was very lucky to snag one in the Newegg shuffle.

[El Barto]

Does anybody have a signup queue other than EVGA (which currently does not)? I'm sure not seeing one, and the reality is that it's probably better to be fleeced now than fleeced later.

I don't know if anyone else has setup a queue system other than EVGA in the US. The prices are only trending upwards for the the board partners and that's why I decided to take the plunge as I'll be making use of it now rather than wait.  I was very lucky to snag one in the Newegg shuffle.

EVGA has suspended theirs. Newegg actually has some cards in stock, but they're leading the pack insofar as scalping goes. They're selling 1660s for $500+, FFS.

edit:  (Plus $50-70 S/H)

[faizoff]

Time to time, EVGA has these flash sales of their B-stock cards and those go out super quick too. But I believe those are reasonably priced.

[faizoff]

Just ordered it, it'll be here in 3-5 days. I'm so pumped. I'm going to pick up battlefield and test this thing out.

Hopefully this theft of EVGA cards doesn't affect your order.

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that on October 29, 2021, a shipment of EVGA GeForce RTX 30-Series Graphics Cards was stolen from a truck en route from San Francisco to our Southern California distribution center.
 
These graphics cards are in high demand and each has an estimated retail value starting at $329.99 up to $1959.99 MSRP.
 
 
PLEASE TAKE FURTHER NOTICE that under state and Federal law:
It is a criminal and civil offense to “buy or receive” property that has been stolen. Cal. Penal Code section 496(a).
It is also a criminal and civil offense to “conceal, sell, withhold, or aid in concealing selling or withholding” any such property.
 
PLEASE TAKE FURTHER notice that:
If you are able to successfully register your product and see it under My Products, then your product is NOT affected by this notice, you can also check the serial number at the EVGA Warranty Check page to see if it is affected.
EVGA will NOT REGISTER or HONOR ANY WARRANTY or UPGRADE claims on these products.
 
 If you have or receive any information relating to these products, please share that with us at stopRTX30theft@evga.com.
 
We appreciate your attention to this issue.


Thank you,
EVGA Management

[ReaperKK]

My buddy just sent me this morning, funny enough my card shipped the same day. UPS says it's coming today so we'll see.

[cramx3]

Wow, what are the chances lol

[El Barto]

The used graphics card market is rather interesting. I can't tell, but it almost seems like bots and sellers are bidding on their own stuff. It's probably also the case that people are flipping them, as prices have increased quite a bit over the last month.

What I can tell is that the market is flooded with used 3060s, selling for over twice what they cost new. At the same time, the bargains are on the higher end 2000 series cards. Those are selling for a little less than their new price. The TI cards are still out of reach, but with a little luck you can pick up a 2080, for < $750 or so. 2070 Supers are about $100 less. Since their really seems to be no way to buy new cards, save for the old Ticketmaster model of camping out and rushing the door, that's probably as good as it gets for a while.

Looks like the 12th gen Intel chips are going to change the landscape a bit. They compete very well, or beat the comparable Ryzen chips, but bring a whole lot of new MOBO tech with them. I'm honestly not sure what the point of PCIe 5 is since PCIe 4 is barely being utilized, but streamlining the chipsets with DDR5 will certainly matter. In the end, though, I'm thinking it's a good time for a budget build with 11th gen architecture. The Intel 11 series was so poorly received, really only for not being newer tech, that a high end CPU and Z590 MoBo should come in pretty damned cheap in the coming weeks.

[faizoff]

The used graphics card market is rather interesting. I can't tell, but it almost seems like bots and sellers are bidding on their own stuff. It's probably also the case that people are flipping them, as prices have increased quite a bit over the last month.

What I can tell is that the market is flooded with used 3060s, selling for over twice what they cost new. At the same time, the bargains are on the higher end 2000 series cards. Those are selling for a little less than their new price. The TI cards are still out of reach, but with a little luck you can pick up a 2080, for < $750 or so. 2070 Supers are about $100 less. Since their really seems to be no way to buy new cards, save for the old Ticketmaster model of camping out and rushing the door, that's probably as good as it gets for a while.

Looks like the 12th gen Intel chips are going to change the landscape a bit. They compete very well, or beat the comparable Ryzen chips, but bring a whole lot of new MOBO tech with them. I'm honestly not sure what the point of PCIe 5 is since PCIe 4 is barely being utilized, but streamlining the chipsets with DDR5 will certainly matter. In the end, though, I'm thinking it's a good time for a budget build with 11th gen architecture. The Intel 11 series was so poorly received, really only for not being newer tech, that a high end CPU and Z590 MoBo should come in pretty damned cheap in the coming weeks.

I too was reading the 12th gen Intel reviews and it does change things up and brings them back on the top of sorts. AMD is expected to release a turbo-charged version of their Ryzen 5000 series early next year which I believe will compete directly with the 12th gen Intel CPUs and maintain momentum. AMD's CPU share the past couple of years has really skyrocketed and I hope they continue to do so to keep this competition going.

Like you said the 12th gen comes with a bunch of new tech namely DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 but is going to have some growing pains. DDR5 is expensive and will take at least a year to offer its potential. I think the move to PCIe 5.0 is more to create extra available lanes rather than offer bandwidth. It's true PCIe 4.0 bandwidth barely got utilized as 3.0 was plenty and hardly saturated, but the extra lanes are what really help I suppose.

My friend a few months back upgraded to a 10th gen 10900k with a Z590 board from a Haswell i5 which I thought was a better move than going for the gen 11. If you're doing a mixed workload of multi-threaded applications plus some gaming the 10th gen i9 would undoubtedly be a better value when compared to the 11th gen. I think the main issue with the 11th gen is how power-hungry they are while delivering a minimal performance boost over the 10th gen while costing a lot more.

With regards to the used GPU market, I sold my RX 580 8GB card a few months ago for over 3 times the cost I bought it. Plus it was used for a year at that point so I don't see prices backing down. the budget GPU segment looks to be all but decimated for the time being. Even though I paid retail for my EVGA RTX 3080 it's a fortune I never thought I'd spend on. Prior to my upgrade, in the past 15 years I've bought a total of 3 GPUs and the most I'd spent was $150. All that is out the window. Times have changed for me.

[El Barto]

The used graphics card market is rather interesting. I can't tell, but it almost seems like bots and sellers are bidding on their own stuff. It's probably also the case that people are flipping them, as prices have increased quite a bit over the last month.

What I can tell is that the market is flooded with used 3060s, selling for over twice what they cost new. At the same time, the bargains are on the higher end 2000 series cards. Those are selling for a little less than their new price. The TI cards are still out of reach, but with a little luck you can pick up a 2080, for < $750 or so. 2070 Supers are about $100 less. Since their really seems to be no way to buy new cards, save for the old Ticketmaster model of camping out and rushing the door, that's probably as good as it gets for a while.

Looks like the 12th gen Intel chips are going to change the landscape a bit. They compete very well, or beat the comparable Ryzen chips, but bring a whole lot of new MOBO tech with them. I'm honestly not sure what the point of PCIe 5 is since PCIe 4 is barely being utilized, but streamlining the chipsets with DDR5 will certainly matter. In the end, though, I'm thinking it's a good time for a budget build with 11th gen architecture. The Intel 11 series was so poorly received, really only for not being newer tech, that a high end CPU and Z590 MoBo should come in pretty damned cheap in the coming weeks.

I too was reading the 12th gen Intel reviews and it does change things up and brings them back on the top of sorts. AMD is expected to release a turbo-charged version of their Ryzen 5000 series early next year which I believe will compete directly with the 12th gen Intel CPUs and maintain momentum. AMD's CPU share the past couple of years has really skyrocketed and I hope they continue to do so to keep this competition going.

Like you said the 12th gen comes with a bunch of new tech namely DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 but is going to have some growing pains. DDR5 is expensive and will take at least a year to offer its potential. I think the move to PCIe 5.0 is more to create extra available lanes rather than offer bandwidth. It's true PCIe 4.0 bandwidth barely got utilized as 3.0 was plenty and hardly saturated, but the extra lanes are what really help I suppose.

My friend a few months back upgraded to a 10th gen 10900k with a Z590 board from a Haswell i5 which I thought was a better move than going for the gen 11. If you're doing a mixed workload of multi-threaded applications plus some gaming the 10th gen i9 would undoubtedly be a better value when compared to the 11th gen. I think the main issue with the 11th gen is how power-hungry they are while delivering a minimal performance boost over the 10th gen while costing a lot more.

With regards to the used GPU market, I sold my RX 580 8GB card a few months ago for over 3 times the cost I bought it. Plus it was used for a year at that point so I don't see prices backing down. the budget GPU segment looks to be all but decimated for the time being. Even though I paid retail for my EVGA RTX 3080 it's a fortune I never thought I'd spend on. Prior to my upgrade, in the past 15 years I've bought a total of 3 GPUs and the most I'd spent was $150. All that is out the window. Times have changed for me.

Ironically, the reason I'm leaning towards gen 11 rather than gen 10 is that the former allows the Z590 chipset to utilize PCIe 4.0 and double the PCI lanes. The added lanes and 4.0 will only work with 11th gen processors. As you know, I got 10 years out of my current CPU/MOBO, and I'm shooting for something similar, so PCIe 4 will someday matter.

Also, presumably because the 11th gen got panned for not being much of an improvement, they're far more competitively priced now. 11700s are actually significantly cheaper than 10700s,  and the I9s are fairly close. Insofar as I can tell, the only difference between the I7 and I9 is two extra cores, and I'll sacrifice those to save a hundred bucks. Since I'm upgrading from 4+0, 8+8 should be a nice enough upgrade. 

That said, you seem to have researched this stuff, so if there's a bug in my reasoning by all means point it out.

[faizoff]

I have researched a ton lol! You've got it right with your path I hadn't checked the prices lately of the 11th gen and they are very competitive and might fall even more. The 11700k is a great buy, it's virtually the same as the 11900k in terms of core and thread count, only difference is some minor clock boost and I think some cache levels. Outside of a very few limited scenarios I honestly can't figure out the use of that i9 CPU.

 I did want to mention the PCIe 4.0 advantage for the 11th gen and it makes more sense when keeping it for the long term and that makes sense. I too got 10 years out of my old system and plan to use my current one for at least the same amount of time.

Upgrading after a decade and esp using an NVMe SSD is a worthy upgrade. The speed of program installs is something to behold.

[El Barto]

I have researched a ton lol! You've got it right with your path I hadn't checked the prices lately of the 11th gen and they are very competitive and might fall even more. The 11700k is a great buy, it's virtually the same as the 11900k in terms of core and thread count, only difference is some minor clock boost and I think some cache levels. Outside of a very few limited scenarios I honestly can't figure out the use of that i9 CPU.

I did want to mention the PCIe 4.0 advantage for the 11th gen and it makes more sense when keeping it for the long term and that makes sense. I too got 10 years out of my old system and plan to use my current one for at least the same amount of time.

Upgrading after a decade and esp using an NVMe SSD is a worthy upgrade. The speed of program installs is something to behold.

Right. You and I had/have the same i5-2500 wonderchip. Mine was a BF 2011 deal, and with the MOBO and RAM I was out about $260. 

Honestly, the only reason I'm even upgrading the thing is because it'll no doubt bottleneck a modern graphics card, and that's where everything is happening nowadays.