Author Topic: The Official Hard Rock / Classic Metal Music Discussion and Memorabilia Thread!  (Read 909692 times)

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Offline TAC

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Taken as a DT album you're right, but I realised long ago it wasn't going to be a regular DT album and reset my expectations accordingly. I certainly didn't know if I'd like it but I really love it for what it is, not dislike it for what it isn't.

 

It is a change of pace for DT. But one I was ready for. And it was brave as fuck.

I agree.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline bl5150

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My Windows 7 PC is in the process of dying and so now I have to order,set up a new one/learn new OS in the middle of moving etc..............so my 80% completed podcast is going to stay that way for a while I am afraid.

Hoping I can nurse this one through the next few weeks but am losing functionality by the day with various programs etc.....

I will try and listen to The Astonishing one more time before attempting to rate it , but to this point i basically agree with Bolsters and jj.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Mac, FTW. If Ya gotta learn a whole new OS anyway, make it an easier one.  :)
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline BlobVanDam

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Mac, FTW. If Ya gotta learn a whole new OS anyway, make it an easier one.  :)

OSX isn't any easier to use at all. Get outta here, fanboy. ;)

And you don't have to learn a new OS anyway. Windows 10 isn't that different to 7.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline bl5150

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Mac, FTW. If Ya gotta learn a whole new OS anyway, make it an easier one.  :)

OSX isn't any easier to use at all. Get outta here, fanboy. ;)

And you don't have to learn a new OS anyway. Windows 10 isn't that different to 7.

Good to hear.    I need to get this stuff set up pronto and also have a multi monitor setup that I have planned out with an Ergotron sit/stand thingy where I can walk in and just lift/drop the whole setup (to help my back).........so there's a few barriers to a whole new Apple set up.   A Windows desktop system will be easier to set up like that and , although I am no PC nerd by any means , my 15 years experience with Windows will help me a bit with getting this done as quick as possible.    The PC I have in mind to order will be faster/cheaper than anything I can get from Apple (within reason) but I go into it with the knowledge that I may well need to upgrade again much sooner than if I had gone with Apple and I'm cool with that.

Hopefully I'll be up and running soon.  Getting myself an SSD for the system drive this time which should help things along.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Cool. I'm looking to get a standing desk myself, so I adjust the whole desk height rather than a thing on the desk itself.  If you're already used to your setup with recording/making your podcasts, you don't want a whole new system to deal with on top of moving and everything else.

I still haven't checked out your podcasts, but seeing some of the songs you've included that I love, I really need to get on that. :tup Is there a post with every link in it?
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Bolsters

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I still haven't checked out your podcasts, but seeing some of the songs you've included that I love, I really need to get on that. :tup Is there a post with every link in it?
If I recall, they're all in the OP.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Well duh @ me. :lolpalm: I forgot that bl5150 started the thread, so that would make too much sense. Thanks.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Lowdz

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Yeah Brent. DT really didn't make this one for you :lol
Not much here will work outside the concept though there are great standalone tracks. I absolutely love Our New World. What a chorus.

Online wolfking

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Yeah just got home and it's 9:30pm, and only sitting up for another half hour.  Should I just put TA in the car and listen to it disjointedly, or wait until I can sit and listen to the whole thing?
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Offline bl5150

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Before bed - don't put it on in the car for God's sake - safety first  :biggrin:
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Online wolfking

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 :lol

Alright, maybe tomorrow.  I don't think it's a good sign that I'm not even eager to check it out, and will only sit through it when I have the time. 
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Online wolfking

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I'm having a listen to a couple of tracks from the new ARP.  There is simply no reason that anyone would need to purchase this album.  ARP has become the metal version of ACDC, nothing new at all.  The title track is pretty good and overall, there's nothing wrong with it, but Jesus, even Blackie can vary it up more than this.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Yeah just got home and it's 9:30pm, and only sitting up for another half hour.  Should I just put TA in the car and listen to it disjointedly, or wait until I can sit and listen to the whole thing?

If you can get at least a sitting with each disc, that would suffice - that's all I've been able to do so far.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Online wolfking

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Yeah just got home and it's 9:30pm, and only sitting up for another half hour.  Should I just put TA in the car and listen to it disjointedly, or wait until I can sit and listen to the whole thing?

If you can get at least a sitting with each disc, that would suffice - that's all I've been able to do so far.

Yeah, that was my plan, will aim for tomorrow with the first disc.
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Offline Lowdz

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My first full listen was in the car but it didn't make any sense until I sat with the album on and the track by track on the iPad.

But it's not a normal DT album and you probably need to go in with that in mind.


Offline TAC

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I've spent the last week listening to The Astonishing and I just want to say that I think it is absolutely brilliant. I can see easily why the metal crowd could be put off, as it does get quiet and slow in many places. The first CD does take a while to get through.

Two things that I have begging for from a new DT album were more piano and James going off. This album has both in spades. James is amazing here. No idea how it'll sound live, but he nails this album.

Definitely has a soundtrack feel, as opposed to a rock album, but I think that's cool. A huge gamble for the band, but I think it works perfectly. So many great songs on this album. And so many great parts of songs.

The only criticism I have, and I don't know if it's even fair for an album like this, is that there are so many parts and lines that I wish would go on so much longer than they do, but the music does really fit with the action.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 01:00:37 PM by TAC »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jingle.boy

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^ This I did not expect.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline TAC

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^ This I did not expect.

Chad, I LOVE Dream Theater. They ARE my favorite band. But I don't need my metal from them. The reason I loved them was that they brought in parts of different types of music and presented them in a hard rock manner. And I love that.

Plus:
Two things that I have begging for from a new DT album were more piano and James going off. This album has both in spades. James is amazing here. No idea how it'll sound live, but he nails this album.
I mean this. I've been so disappointed with the vocals now for a long time. Not that they haven't been sung perfectly, but I've felt that James is an untapped resource for the band. Jordan too for that matter. They both shine so much on this and it is really refreshing to hear.

I loved ADTOE and was lukewarm on DT12. Things like Far From Heaven have just been so scarce on DT albums.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Prog Snob

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^ This I did not expect.

Chad, I LOVE Dream Theater. They ARE my favorite band. But I don't need my metal from them. The reason I loved them was that they brought in parts of different types of music and presented them in a hard rock manner. And I love that.


This is kind of how I feel. I don't go to Dream Theater for my metal. It's an added bonus that they incorporate it in a lot of their music, but I go to DT for something different, unorthodox, adventurous, mind-blowing. I think that's the mistake people sometimes make with Dream Theater. It's like misusing a short-reliever in a baseball game and then complaining you didn't get what you wanted out of him.

Offline TAC

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This is kind of how I feel. I don't go to Dream Theater for my metal. It's an added bonus that they incorporate it in a lot of their music, but I go to DT for something different, unorthodox, adventurous, mind-blowing. 

Well said. I agree.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online wolfking

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Interesting opinions.  I guess DT have been doing the metal thing for so long, you just come to expect it in their music I suppose.  I am going to go into it with an open mind and no real expectations at all to be honest.
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Offline TAC

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Probably a good idea Kade. There's a ton to chew on. But you have to be able to accept the ballad-y stuff to get through this album. There's a lot of it. But it's story, so a lot of it is reflective kind of stuff. But there are definitely heavy moments but all in all, it is still Dream Theater.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 01:55:05 PM by TAC »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Prog Snob

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It's the "lightest" release they've ever put out.

Offline jingle.boy

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I hear ya Tim/John.  I just wasn't expecting you (given your tastes) to pop a chubby over this.  I'm all about diversity when it comes to DT, and I appreciate the 'less' metal albums (8vm, ADTOE) moreso than the 'more' metal ones (BCSL, SC).  And I love me my complex/concept albums.  I think I'll love this one, once I'm able to give it it's due.  So far, only 1 listen in to it, as I just haven't had the consecutive disposable time to put into this.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Prog Snob

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There aren't any epic style tracks on here that I think will be the next Metropolis or A Change of Seasons, but most of the songs have hooks and you'll be singing them in your head. Our New World is NOT the typical Dream Theater song. It reminds me of a hair metal riff. I don't know. That's the feeling I get. It's catchy as hell though.

Online wolfking

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as I just haven't had the consecutive disposable time to put into this.

This will be my main issue too and I haven't even listened to it yet.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Prog Snob

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I think that's the main struggle for anyone with a job and/or a family.  :lol   I just split it into two acts. There's no way I'll have two plus hours of uninterrupted time. Even traveling into work is only 90 minutes.

Offline TAC

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The worst thing about getting older is never having the time to just sit and listen to music. Honestly, that's what I miss most about my youth. When nothing mattered except what album I was listening to.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jingle.boy

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My next trip isn't until Feb 23rd too.  That's probably the only time in the near future I'll have 2:10 to me uninterrupted.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline jjrock88

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What I may try and do is listen to songs seperately on my ipod and see if anything catches on by doing that.  I will say that playing TA, not one song stuck in my head or stood out to me.  It just felt like a blur, but I still could sense some quality stuff on it.  Maybe just playing a song randomly might trigger something for me.

Online King Postwhore

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The worst thing about getting older is never having the time to just sit and listen to music. Honestly, that's what I miss most about my youth. When nothing mattered except what album I was listening to.

Amen to this. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Bolsters

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I've been wanting DT to tone down the metal side of their music for a long time. I like the older stuff that's heavy, but I think the last few albums (SC and onward) the heavier tracks have been stale, predictable, and boring, so I enjoyed the softer tracks more for the mostpart. Infact a couple of years ago I realised that I'd be all for them doing an entire album in the style of Beneath The Surface and Far From Heaven (but I'm well aware that it will never happen). So I was excited when I heard that this album wasn't going to be wall-to-wall metal and that it was going to be lighter. I heard that Jordan was playing more piano than ever - another thing that I really wanted them to do. But while I don't really dislike this album and I still need to listen to it more (I'm three listens in), I still think they've made something that is quite bland. The album has its very few moments, but they are lost in a two hour and ten minute sea of mediocrity.

Offline bl5150

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OK.............I have now listened to The Astonishing three times , last time reading along with the story on dt.net and I must admit that it did boost the listening experience.  So , as I originally surmised , if you're not prepared to get involved in the story there ain't much there in terms of individual songs.  I normally wouldn't even bother , as if I don't like the music right off the bat I generally don't bother with concepts or rock operas at all.   That's why I never got into SFAM as it just sounded too focused on forcibly squeezing the story into a song format and I felt it dragged down the quality of the music/songs.

Paul was right in saying that DT didn't write this for me.  My normal response to anything on TV or stage that involves drama combined with people breaking out into song is to throw up.  The whole idea of musicals etc.....just does nothing for me.  So when you take into account that I am rating this 75% (which is higher than I rate most albums from FII through to SC) then I think they have done a decent job.  For what it is , it's very good and far more appealing to me than anything I have heard from Ayreon or the like.........I just don't hear the musical genius that others do there (or here really).



The highlights for me generally involved something resembling a full song and some good guitar playing - A Better Life, Chosen,A New Beginning and Moment of Betrayal.    Of the 34 tracks they are likely the ones I would return to individually - other than that it's pretty much a "listen to the whole thing or not at all" for me and that won't be happening much I'm afraid .

The lack of heaviness doesn't bother me at all - I probably have more wimp rock in my collection than most of you guys :lol  And when it comes to DT my taste generally doesn't follow the rules:

- I&W supposedly is very Rush like  :)
- metalheads should like ToT (I don't rate it at all - 2nd lowest ranking above SC)

etc......

POSITIVES:

- it is definitely the more melodic DT here , which is the style I like best.  Having said that it's a bit light on the prog even for me.
- JLB does really well
-  I think they did a good job within the chosen format.  My preferred concept album style is an album full of genuine songs that loosely tell the story , with verbal interludes etc....( Mindcrime, Crimson Idol, Streets)  rather than an ongoing conversation between characters /rock opera etc...

With that in mind I am glad that JLB did the lot.  I am not observant enough to pick up all the cues for his various characters in this so I am not fussed.  If it was a whole load of other singers I think I would've liked it less.

- the album has good production , but there's also the odd downside IMHO


NEGATIVES


- once I decided to be a sport and give the cheesy storyline a go , the music flowed a lot better (as expected).  However after listening to it 3 times I could probably only hum you 5-10 mins in total.   Memorable musical moments are few and far between for me , despite it being a nice enough listen.  I get more from one song on Images and Words than this whole album

- Jordan has been given the keys to the DT car here and IMHO has confirmed what I have always felt - that he's a gun of a player but not quite as good as a composer.  I realise that there are recurring themes in the music that are done on purpose , but that doesn't account for all of the lack of variety.  The soundscapes that I might have expected (I would love to know how Kev Mo' would've approached this......) just aren't there and the slow , plodding epic moments all have the same feel.

- I mentioned in the positives that the production is good in terms of clarity but I would've liked this album to have its own personality/sound (which all their other albums do).  Aside from the improvement in clarity , to me this is close enough to a carbon copy of the DT 12 sound , which even further emphasises the familiar sounding epic moments , many of which can also be heard in very similar fashion in songs like The Bigger Picture (When Your Time Has Come/Ravenskill) ,   Illumination Theory (2285)   Come to think of it Ravenskill also brought to mind Savatage , which is no bad thing.


Those are the main thoughts that were running through my head as I listened.  To get a mark bordering on an 8/10 from me for this style of album is probably some sort of achievement.  Part of that rating is an appreciation of the effort/guts it took to go this way and do a good job in a format that I don't really like.   It won't be getting much play from me , but I do appreciate what they have done.

Do you think the fanboys over on DT side would get offended it I posted my 4 song abridged version ?  :biggrin:


« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 08:30:22 PM by bl5150 »
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Online wolfking

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That was a good read Brent.  Gonna dive into the first act tonight.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.