Author Topic: The Official Hard Rock / Classic Metal Music Discussion and Memorabilia Thread!  (Read 909492 times)

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Offline Kwyjibo

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Ok, here's my try:

1. Operation: Mindcrime
2. Empire
3. Rage For Order
4. The Warning
5. Promised Land
6. Queensryche (the Todd LaTorre thing)
7. Queensryche (EP)
8. Q2K
9. Hear In The Now Frontier
10. American Soldier
11. Operation: Mindcrime II
12. Tribe

I haven't listened to Take Cover, Dedicated To Chaos and Tate's FU, nor do I intend to do so in the near and far future.

Maybe we should divide the rankings into the good, the bad and the ugly?

Song ranking maybe later, ranking individual songs is always harder for me than ranking whole albums.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline jjrock88

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Albums:

O:M
Warning
Promised Land
EP
RFO
Empire
S/T
Tribe
OM2
HITNF
Q2K
American Soldier
DTC (probably the biggest piece of shit I've ever listened to)

SONGS:

Queen of the Reich
Whisper
NM156
I Don't Believe in Love
Eyes of a Stranger
En Force
Prophecy
Promised Land
Damaged
Walk in the Shadows
Silent Lucidity
Spreading the Disease
Lady Wore Black
Road to Madness
Take Hold of the Flame
Screaming in Digital
Empire

Love everything from the first six and the latest s/t.  Everything else is hit and miss.  Queensryche is a strange situation.  Almost flawless for the first six and then a major drop.  It can't be all Tates fault, but it really is mind boggling what happened to the band for almost two decades.  But I can always forgive them based on the first six and the rejuvenation of the band.  Looking forward to the new one.

Offline bl5150

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I like your enthusiasm guys -looks like JJ wins the prize :lol   Unless you tell me otherwise JJ I'll take your Top 10 songs as the first 10 in your list.

Off to listen to the new Armored Saint  :xbones


EDIT.........good album.  Solid metal with no duds but also not much I expect to consider "classic" in the future.  Favourite tracks were the title track and the last one called "Up Yours" :metal :lol

It may well improve with more listens but at the moment I'd give it around 83%


Helloween now..................opening track has a bit of a Painkiller vibe
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 08:31:42 AM by bl5150 »
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Offline Kwyjibo

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I'm probably away for the weekend so here's my song ranking for now:

1. Revolution Calling
2. I Don't Believe In Love
3. NM 156
4. Silent Lucidity
5. Eyes Of A Stranger
6. Jet City Woman
7. Roads To Madness
8. Lady Jane
9. Walk In The Shadows
10. Where Dreams Go To Die

Queensryche for me is an absolute album band, meaning I rarely listen to single songs, but almost always to whole albums. It didn't even occur to me to create a mix for my MP3-Player, which I have done for almost every other band I like.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline bosk1

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Ah, this will be fun.  Queensryche was my favorite band from 1990 to 1999.  I LOVE the first 6 albums listed.  I like the next 4, but they are each flawed in some way.  The last 2... :(  This is going to be a long post...

1.  Empire - So many good tracks.  One and Only is the only one I don't particularly care for, and I don't mind hearing that one.  There is a good reason why this album burned up the charts.  It was nice to see good music actually get some mainstream recognition. 

2.  Promised Land - I think Promised Land is actually a "better" album than Empire.  For the longest time, I had it ranked #1.  But I just find myself listening to Empire more nowadays if I reach for an older Queensryche album.  But great collection of songs.  And the tour was just stunning.  It took this album awhile to click, but when it did, I was sold.

3.  Hear In the Now Frontier - I know I am in the minority, but I love this album.  To me, Queensryche had been a band that was able up through this album to find a trend they liked at any given point in popular music and blend it with their style without outright copying that style.  This album is a great example.  It is not grunge.  But it is a good reflection of grunge in the same way the EP and Warning were a good reflection of NWOBHM without being NWOBHM.  You can hear the influence, but it is still something different.  This album took the more simplistic, stripped down, dirty grunge style and made it Queensryche.  And the album has so many great, memorable songs because of that.

4.  Mindcrime - This album was really my gateway into the band.  It took me awhile to get it, but as with other albums, once it finally clicked, it hit home in a big way and really helped shape my taste in music and take it in a different direction.  I used to rank this album a lot higher.  I probably still would if the concept/story hadn't worn a little thin on me.

5.  Queensryche - My only trepidation about ranking this album so high is that the album as a whole (as well as many of the individual songs) is just too short.  But what a stellar return to form.  Despite its flaws, this was a VERY solid effort.  If a few of the songs were a bit more fleshed out, and there were a couple of more songs, this would be top 3.

6.  Rage - Fantastic album.  It seems a shame to rank it so low.  It's just that the ones before it are so good.

7.  Warning - This is where ranking starts to get tricky.  This next grouping all have some really good songs, and some songs that fall flat.  Here, the band were still finding their sound.  There is also a lot of same-yness for me.  But I give this album a slight bump over the others in this group simply because of some of the classic songs that came from it, like Roads To Madness and NM156.

8.  American Soldier - This album is...challenging for me.  Jason Slater wrote some great songs and had really captured the Queensryche sound, IMO.  I also generally REALLY like the concept.  But there are a few flaws that drag it down.  First and foremost is Tate's singing.  He sounds awful in too many places.  This is the first album where I felt like his performance was truly the weakest link.  If not for that, I could overlook the other flaws and would rank this album a LOT higher.  Second, the flow of the album is not good at the end, and the album really loses steam because of it.  The Voice is a pretty good album closer.  But it does not have quite the big, epic feeling of a lot of their closers.  It tries, but just doesn't quite get there.  And having the two ballads back to back right before it is a problem.  The album just seems to die with a whimper despite closing with some pretty good songs.  Third, Home Again.  I love the concept of this song.  And the lyrics are truly tear jerking.  I even like the concept of having a child sing the child's part.  The problem is that Tate's daughter is just not a good singer, notwithstanding that she was just a kid when it was recorded.  Fourth, while the concept of the album is a really cool idea, the very subtle slant to it is, unfortunately, very glaring to me.  I remember having a short conversation with Tate during the Take Cover tour when he was working on the concept for this album where I talked about my military service.  The things he said just seemed off at the time, but did not register as that big a deal.  But over time, after letting this album soak in, and piecing together other things he has said, it just leaves me feeling like Geoff Tate is utterly clueless about military life and what service people go through.  And given how many he supposedly interviewed as part of this album project, that is very troubling to me and casts an unfortunate shadow over this album.

9.  Tribe - Oh man, what could have been.  There are some truly stellar songs on this album.  But there are also some of the band's worst (not including D2C).  This album really gave a glimpse into what could have been had Tate not driven DeGarmo away.  The problem is that this album is just so inconsistent. 

10.  Mindcrime II - Man, as bad an idea as it was to even try to do a sequel to Mindcrime, this album really had potential.  I think it starts off great, actually, and has some great songs.  Slater had not quite really gotten Queensryche's sound, but he wasn't far off.  The songs and story start off pretty strong through the first half of the album.  It has great hooks.  Nice heaviness at times.  Great callbacks to the original.  An interesting story that really feels logical from the standpoint of looking at where the characters are almost 20 years later.  But things start to become a mess at The Chase, both in terms of spotty song quality and the story going off the rails.  This album would not have been quite up there with the classics.  But with relatively few changes it could be a LOT better.  There is a lot I like about the album.  But as a whole, it fails.

11.  Q2K - Oh well.  They were my favorite band.  At least I have the history, right?  DT releasing SFAM and then Queensryche following that with this meant that they were now out of the top spot for good.  But at least we got 2 good songs (The Right Side of My Mind and Liquid Sky) and a few decent ones.  And my wife and I had a fun, memorable trip flying into Seattle for the recording of Live Evolution and then road tripping across western Canada.  So...thanks for the memories, Queensryche.

EDIT:  I do have to say, it was cool that they did a reissue that included some bonus tracks.  Until There Was You is not very good.  And while Howl is better than a lot of songs on the album, I seem to be in the minority in terms of not thinking it is that great either.  But still cool that they released this material.

12.  Dedicated 2 Chaos - There is nothing likeable about this album.  I waited until I found a copy in the used bin just so I could have it for completeness.  I listened to it once and have no desire to repeat the exercise.


Unranked:

EP - Some solid songs.  I just don't rank it because it seems unfair to rank a 4 song debut EP against full albums.  I immediately really liked Queen of the Reich and The Lady Wore Black.  Blinded took awhile.  It wasn't until I heard the live version from Tokyo that made me really take notice of what a cool song this is.  Nightrider never really clicked.  If we are counting The Prophesy, which was included on the re-release, that is a solid track as well.

Take Cover - I can't really rank a covers album with their originals.  A few decent efforts.  Lots of bombs.  And many of the bombs simply fail because of Tate.  Too bad.  Fun tour though.

I do not include FU because, despite having "Queensryche" on the album sleeve, it is NOT a Queensryche album.  It just isn't.  It has no original members of the band performing on it, and the band was still an active, viable entity at the time.  It is a Geoff Tate album that was intentionally mislabeled to cause confusion among the fanbase and capitalize on the established band name. 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 11:28:41 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline jjrock88

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Nothing wrong with Hear in the Now Frontier at all, it's a solid straight up rock album. But to me it's such a down grade from the first six and it's hard to comprehend it's the same band. Some good tunes on it.

Some solid tunes in Q2K as well; especially Right Side of My Mind. That song is what later Queensryche should be all about

Offline Lowdz

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Queensryche wewre my favourite band until Images & Words appeared.

1. O:M
2. Rage For Order
3. Empire
4. Warning
5=Promised Land
5=QR


O:M II
HITNF - wow to say I was disappointed was an understatement. Little was I to know at the time that this would be as good as it got for many years

The rest is complete shite.

Offline Kwyjibo

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HITNF was a huge letdown, I tried and tried to like it, thinking there must be something I was missing. How could a band release such an album? Now I've come to the conclusion that it's just barely mediocre. There a two tracks I like, the rest is not really bad (that came later) but just bland and forgettable.

Q2K for me was a step in the right direction, I really liked it and I still do, it doesn't come close to the great albums, but was solid. But I think I'm almost alone with that point of view. Falling Down, Sacred Ground, One Life, When The Rain Comes, Right Side Of My Mind are all good to great tracks.

Tribe for me showed that Chris DeGarmo couldn't turn things around. Hearing about his involvement, the expectations were high, but QR fell short again. As shown in my ranking Tribe is the worst of them (not counting D2C). Slater then did a better job in writing tunes that sound at least little bit like QR and at least a little bit interesting. Tribe just angers me because of what could have been.  :angry: But again not many share my feelings towards Tribe.

On a related note: A friend of mine got the QR Logo as a tattoo on her right shoulder after Promised Land and just before HITNF came out. At first we all envied her because of it and because it really was a work of art. Bit it quickly moved to the top of the list of things she wished she hadn't done. I think it's now removed for some time  :biggrin:
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline bosk1

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Tribe for me showed that Chris DeGarmo couldn't turn things around. Hearing about his involvement, the expectations were high, but QR fell short again. As shown in my ranking Tribe is the worst of them (not counting D2C). Slater then did a better job in writing tunes that sound at least little bit like QR and at least a little bit interesting. Tribe just angers me because of what could have been.  :angry: But again not many share my feelings towards Tribe.

I don't completely disagree about Tribe as a whole, even though I rank it higher than you do.  But as far as DeGarmo not being able to help, keep in mind that his involvement was limited.  He only has writing credits on 5 of the songs on the album (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, The Art of Life, and Doing Fine), three of which I consider to be the best on the album, and NONE of those songs were finished when he departed.  To me, it is obvious that his musical influence could still have contributed to something really good, had he been emotionally invested and able to stay and finish things (i.e., if the band dynamic weren't already so toxic that he left before the songs were even done).  The strength of those songs, plus the two that were NOT included (Justified and what eventually became Hostage), show that he still had a lot to say musically that was pretty amazing. 

Honestly, if you give me an album with those 7 songs, with the opportunity for Chris to have polished them a bit more by working them to completion, and remove Blood and Losing Myself, that's a pretty solid album in my opinion, notwithstanding still having a few weak tracks.  Not among their best, but a solid album nonetheless.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 03:25:08 PM by bosk1 »
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Online TAC

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HITNF was a huge letdown, I tried and tried to like it, thinking there must be something I was missing. How could a band release such an album? Now I've come to the conclusion that it's just barely mediocre. There a two tracks I like, the rest is not really bad (that came later) but just bland and forgettable.
I could appreciate what they tried to do with HITNF. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to the songs, and these were just not up to snuff. I do like a couple of tracks, but my favorite tracks off of it would still be considered weak tracks on their better album.


I rank the QR albums like this:
Warning/ Mindcrime tie
Rage/Empire tie
EP

Everything else

I did find American Soldier decent. At least it felt like a focused and committed project.

Fave QR tracks:
Roads To Madness
NM 15
Deliverance
Suite Sister Mary
Queen Of The Ryche
Speak
Anybody Listening?
Revelution Calling
Surgical Strike
No Sanctuary


I would also add, that while I am not a Promised Land guy at all, that tour was one of the best shows I've ever seen, and I had never really considered them a strong live band, save for Scott Rockenfield.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online wolfking

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OM
Empire
Warning/EP
Tribe
Promised Land
S/T
Rage For Order
American Soldier
HITNF
Q2K
Mindcrime 2
DTC
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Online wolfking

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New Virgin Steele - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di-vXNwOOGI

Absolutely nothing new here, but it's actually pretty solid metal.  Production doesn't sound too bad either.  Will pick this up.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Online TAC

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I haven't followed Virgin Steele, and THAT will not prompt me to do so. :)
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online wolfking

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I haven't followed Virgin Steele, and THAT will not prompt me to do so. :)

They are definitely an acquired taste.
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Online wolfking

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Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXW_2ECC67I

 :rollin

Never was a big Rhapsody fan, but they were okay.  This is a fucking joke lol.
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Online TAC

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I haven't followed Virgin Steele Rhapsody, and THAT will not prompt me to do so. :)
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online wolfking

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Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline jjrock88

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That Rhapsody is not good.

As far as the new Virgin Steele goes, that's basically Virgin Steele by the numbers.  Decent.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Rhapsody are awesome, bu this song was random scifi sounding words thrown together.
I hope the future science concept doesn't affect the music too much, because this song lacks their typical medieval fantasy sound. But they've got an orchestra, so it can't be all bad. And the production sounds top notch as usual, which already puts it ahead.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Evermind

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this song was random scifi sounding words thrown together.

Absolutely this. :rollin
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Lowdz

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Rhapsody are awesome, bu this song was random scifi sounding words thrown together.
I hope the future science concept doesn't affect the music too much, because this song lacks their typical medieval fantasy sound. But they've got an orchestra, so it can't be all bad. And the production sounds top notch as usual, which already puts it ahead.

I thought Luca's sci-fi solo album Prophets Of The Last Eclipse was really good so I'm not too worried by the switch. The song reminds me of something in the chorus - not sure what yet.
I do enjoy his orchestral stuff.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Rhapsody are awesome, bu this song was random scifi sounding words thrown together.
I hope the future science concept doesn't affect the music too much, because this song lacks their typical medieval fantasy sound. But they've got an orchestra, so it can't be all bad. And the production sounds top notch as usual, which already puts it ahead.

I thought Luca's sci-fi solo album Prophets Of The Last Eclipse was really good so I'm not too worried by the switch. The song reminds me of something in the chorus - not sure what yet.
I do enjoy his orchestral stuff.

I've actually never heard his stuff outside of Rhapsody. He's been very consistent with Rhapsody though, and the last album was very good, so I'm still interested.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline bl5150

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I haven't followed Virgin Steele, and THAT will not prompt me to do so. :)

I wouldn't call that track representative of their best by any means - in fact I haven't caught up with their most recent releases myself.  Perhaps that's why I found it rather weird.  Defeis' voice has totally changed and that falsetto at the start was fucking awful.  The riff , basic as it is , is pretty cool but the chorus is underwhelming.

I'm not sure what to make of that.

Try this TAC  (from 1988) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WILhJWgfz7M

If you don't like that (I do) then I wouldn't bother.


I got through one minute of the Rhapsody and CUT!  From the comments below "What happens when Sheldon Cooper writes songs of power metal"  :lol  I can't say I've ever taken much notice of Rhapsody tbh.
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Offline Lowdz

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I haven't followed Virgin Steele, and THAT will not prompt me to do so. :)

I wouldn't call that track representative of their best by any means - in fact I haven't caught up with their most recent releases myself.  Perhaps that's why I found it rather weird.  Defeis' voice has totally changed and that falsetto at the start was fucking awful.  The riff , basic as it is , is pretty cool but the chorus is underwhelming.

I'm not sure what to make of that.

Try this TAC  (from 1988) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WILhJWgfz7M

If you don't like that (I do) then I wouldn't bother.


I got through one minute of the Rhapsody and CUT!  From the comments below "What happens when Sheldon Cooper writes songs of power metal"  :lol  I can't say I've ever taken much notice of Rhapsody tbh.

Better production than we're used to for VS but not a great song. And his falsetto has always been a bit of an acquired taste. His songs with Eric Adams singing and ManOwaR's production would be a great thing.

AndDawn of Victory is a great album Brent. Awesome riffage on that one, dodgy Italian pronunciations aside  ;D

Offline bl5150

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AndDawn of Victory is a great album Brent. Awesome riffage on that one, dodgy Italian pronunciations aside  ;D

I just checked my collection and I have the two before that only - Legendary Tales and Symphony of Enchanted Lands - can't say I remember anything about them though.  I'll check out Dawn of Victory Paul.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 07:37:23 AM by bl5150 »
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Offline King Postwhore

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My turn with the Ryche.


Empire
OM
Warning/EP
HITNF
Promised Land
Rage For Order
Tribe
S/T
Q2K
American Soldier
Mindcrime 2
DTC
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Honestly, if you give me an album with those 7 songs, with the opportunity for Chris to have polished them a bit more by working them to completion, and remove Blood and Losing Myself, that's a pretty solid album in my opinion, notwithstanding still having a few weak tracks.  Not among their best, but a solid album nonetheless.

Tribe could and should have been better, but there's to many "if"s that weren't fulfilled. Regarding Chris DeGarmo: Maybe he could have made it a better record if he had been involved till the end. On the other hand DeGarmo was the main songwriter on HITNF, so not everything he touches turns to gold. And his musical contributions since leaving QR are minimal at best. That raises the question if things would have been that much better if he was still with the band.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline WebRaider

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My album rankings for Queensryche:

Promised Land
OM
Empire
EP/Warning
S/T
Tribe
Rage For Order
HITNF-Q2K (Tie)
American Soldier
Mindcrime 2
DTC

I like Tribe more than most. I think it was their last real shot to pull it together with Tate ruling the band and in the end it fell through and they went to crap completely afterwards *w/Tate*  but there was some good material there.

Online TAC

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You know, I feel like I have some pretty experienced ears, but I have no idea why people with just as experienced ears as I do love Promised Land. I absolutely do not get it. The love for Promised Land makes absolutely no sense to me.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline WebRaider

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Forgot to add QR song rankings! Will add ASAP.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 07:21:35 PM by WebRaider »

Offline jjrock88

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You know, I feel like I have some pretty experienced ears, but I have no idea why people with just as experienced ears as I do love Promised Land. I absolutely do not get it. The love for Promised Land makes absolutely no sense to me.

Is there any songs on the album that you like?  How about the title track and Damaged?

Offline bl5150

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You know, I feel like I have some pretty experienced ears, but I have no idea why people with just as experienced ears as I do love Promised Land. I absolutely do not get it. The love for Promised Land makes absolutely no sense to me.

Is there any songs on the album that you like?  How about the title track and Damaged?

I feel the same way as Tim about Promised Land - and I can't even get through the title track.  Damaged and a few others are solid songs - there's perhaps one song on it that gives me the same feeling as the older albums(which will make my top 10) .  I listened to it today to refresh the memory and , although I liked it a bit better than I remember , it's still not even in the same ballpark for me as the albums that came before it.
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Offline WebRaider

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We know that QR is at least one of the cornerstone bands of the "prog metal" genre. Given that, it seems some may prefer the earlier and more metal-ish material? I like it all to varying degrees but Promised Land does seem to have more of a "Prog" sound/feel to it and less of the metal aspect. Maybe that is what leaves some feeling disconnected;D
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 10:29:13 PM by WebRaider »

Offline bl5150

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We know that QR is at least one of the cornerstone bands of the "prog metal" genre. Given that, it seems some may prefer the earlier and more metal-ish material? I like it all to varying degrees but Promised Land does seem have more of a "Prog" sound/feel to it and less of the metal aspect. Maybe that is the disconnect;D

I am I and Webraider........you're Someone Else  ;D

That's probably fair .  Having said that I don't think that Promised Land is clearly more proggie style than Rage For Order but there's certainly a whole lot less "metal"and that is a big issue for me I suppose.  I don't like the vast majority of "prog rock", "neo prog" etc...... so when it comes to prog for me it's "prog metal or forget it" for the most part.  And even then there needs to be lots of melody and structure to go with the prog.

Having said that I certainly don't think Promised Land is a total dog - it gets a rating from me in the high 70's- it's just that I don't consider it a good Queensryche album. I tend to prefer some of the softer more melodic songs on Promised Land. Add the full band version of Someone Else and Real World and it might creep into the 80's

At least everyone agrees on Dedicated to Crap. :)

I need to have a refresher listen on the recent s/t album and then I'll get my thoughts up.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 11:09:38 PM by bl5150 »
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au

Offline bl5150

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A few news tidbits (apologies if already noted):


- Stryper's newie "Fallen" due in October
- Saxon's newie "Battering Ram" out Sept/Oct
- crap audio but Skid Row doing STTG with Harnell.......I reckon they're looking/sounding pretty good. https://youtu.be/y7WEizWAo_w
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au