The Official Hard Rock / Classic Metal Music Discussion and Memorabilia Thread!

[TAC]

Just pre-ordered the new Armored Saint and Helloween on Amazon. Both should be in my mailbox when I get home from work on June 2!

[jjrock88]

Just pre-ordered the new Armored Saint and Helloween on Amazon. Both should be in my mailbox when I get home from work on June 2!

I'm ordering those two together as well! Looking forward to both

[bl5150]

Fans of Malmsteen style might be interested in this metallish release from Melodic Rock Records

The sample below is good but doesn't sound anything special to me - it does feature Mark Boals , his weave and Macro Minnemann so I'll be keeping an ear peeled.

https://youtu.be/3fL8W7XqhWo

Sorry no shirt today - sick as a dog with flu and spent most of the day in bed.  It might surprise you but I don't have red, white and black striped PJs.

I thought that was ok. I have the last album cage Of Infinity, and that was really good. Played it as my workout music tonight (new year resolution still going strong!). Guitarist really wants to be Yngwie but he can write a good song.
Hope you feel better soon mate.

Thanks Paul.   I have Cage of Infinity but , if my ratings are indicative of how I would view it now , I thought it finished strong but didn't like anything much in the first half.

The Cherone album is good.  Plenty of redeeming values on it.  That riff in Ballot of the Bullet alone is beastly.   Once is one of my favorite songs of any VH era, and Dirty Water Dog is particularly very good as well.  I can see why many hate it - it had a new singer AND was too experimental - but on merit alone, instead of comparing it to previous VH records, it is a good record.  Certainly better than the mediocrity they released with Roth a few years ago.

I don't mind Ballot Or The Bullet but listening to it now the production is woeful - not in the way most modern production is but it totally lacks beef.  Once is pretty good too and I think Cherone sounded better when he wasn't belting it out trying to be Sammy (probably not his choice).  He has always sounded better doing a soft vocal or talky/funky rock vocal as per Extreme.

Dirty Water Dog is pretty cool but by the time I heard that it was the third time for me.  The exact same riff was on a 5150 reject called I Want Some Action (86) and then Ed gifted it to Lukather for his track Twist The Knife in 89. (on which Ed played bass)

As far as VH 3 being better than ADKOT......we'll agree to disagree






Today's fashion is a Balance double whammy - Euro tour shirt and (rather daggy) roadies jacket from the Balance tour.  Having light issues in here tonight so it's rather dark.  Those who know their VH trivia would know that the kid on the see-saw (minus the extra head/torso on the left) is reportedly Ed's son Wolfie.

[jjrock88]

Cool didn't know that VH trivia

[BlobVanDam]

So Wolfie's featured on two VH albums then? I also didn't know that bit of trivia.

As far as VH 3 being better than ADKOT......we'll agree to disagree

I think the vast majority would disagree on that one. ADKOT was very well received, unlike VH3.

[KevShmev]

bl5150, I totally agree about Cherone's vocals.  They sound like EVH told him, "Try to sing like Sammy," instead of utilizing all of Cherone's strengths as a vocalist. 

My honest feeling is that a lot of people were excited about VH doing a new album with Roth (if you can call an album filled with mostly songs from 30 years ago that were never more than demos new ) that they wanted to like the album, and they were going to like it no matter what.  You want muddy production, listen to that mess.  Now, it does have several songs that I like quite a bit - Big River and The Trouble with Never - but most of the songs are just generic dribble.  At least VH3 saw them trying some new things instead of trying to sound exactly like they did x-number of years ago.

[King Postwhore]

I've always liked VHIII.  I think is lacked a real producer to reign Eddie in.

[KevShmev]

Can you reign in someone who doesn't want to be?   Seriously, I think at some point EVH's head go so big that he was never going to get a producer who challenged him or didn't let him do exactly what he wanted to.

Speaking of VH, did you all see their performance on Jimmy Kimmel recently?  My God, what an embarrassment.  I am not sure what is worse: Roth's vocals or that stupid ass, creepy grin he always has on his face.

[BlobVanDam]

bl5150, I totally agree about Cherone's vocals.  They sound like EVH told him, "Try to sing like Sammy," instead of utilizing all of Cherone's strengths as a vocalist. 

My honest feeling is that a lot of people were excited about VH doing a new album with Roth (if you can call an album filled with mostly songs from 30 years ago that were never more than demos new ) that they wanted to like the album, and they were going to like it no matter what.  You want muddy production, listen to that mess.  Now, it does have several songs that I like quite a bit - Big River and The Trouble with Never - but most of the songs are just generic dribble.  At least VH3 saw them trying some new things instead of trying to sound exactly like they did x-number of years ago.

Most people here (and other places around the net) were expecting it to be bad based on a weak first single and bad choice of song samples, but the album changed most people's minds on its own merits, so I don't see any evidence that there was a bias in favour of wanting to like the album. I see no basis for that other than you disagreeing with the consensus.

And even though several songs were based on old demos, it still brought new stuff to the table too that turned out well (like Honeybabysweetiedoll, which seems to be well liked here).

And what's the merit in doing something different when the result sounds like total shit?

[King Postwhore]

Can you reign in someone who doesn't want to be?   Seriously, I think at some point EVH's head go so big that he was never going to get a producer who challenged him or didn't let him do exactly what he wanted to.

Speaking of VH, did you all see their performance on Jimmy Kimmel recently?  My God, what an embarrassment.  I am not sure what is worse: Roth's vocals or that stupid ass, creepy grin he always has on his face.

 

Very true and that is why some musicians don't get it and led to Eddie killing his own band.  How much did VH lose as fans after the band seemingly disappearing from this earth?

[KevShmev]

That evidence would require me getting inside peoples' heads and finding out something they would never say out loud. Granted, it is just my theory, but that's my story and I am sticking to it.

There is plenty of merit in trying something different; it shows the willingness to try something different instead of being lazy and trying to churn out something predictable.  I get that most hated the results of VH3, while I think it is a solid record, so it's easy to say it was a failed experiment. 

Honestly, the best thing about the Cherone era was the tour.  He had no problem singing any song from any era, so that tour actually saw VH playing songs from their entire catalogue, instead of ignoring a 10-year span (which they do with Roth) or mostly a 7-year span (which they did with Hagar for the most part, outside of a few songs).

[BlobVanDam]

From what little I've seen of them live with Cherone, he did a pretty good job (and I don't like Cherone at all). That was on DLR stuff though, and I don't have much faith he could convincingly pull off Hagar's best stuff.

It is a shame that both of VH's major vocalists have largely ignored the other's era. At least Hagar played the biggest hits, but I don't think he suited them as well as Roth, and Roth wouldn't have had a chance of singing a lot of the Hagar vocals even if he wanted to. It's even worse that they currently ignore that the Hagar era even exists, so those albums continue to get overlooked for much needed remasters.

[King Postwhore]

I saw that tour and he helped breath life into that band live.  I was an awesome show.

[bl5150]

I agree with a lot of the above sentiments...........VH 3 was close enough to an Eddie solo album with Cherone being pushed to sing how Ed wanted him to sing.  Mike Post was a weird choice for producer who obviously had little to no positive impact - maybe that's why he was chosen .

I agree that the tour was good and that was the one time I met the band.  Ed seemed in a really great place and that was reflected in his playing live which was the best in ages.  The only guy in the band who seemed aloof and up himself a bit was Cherone.  And yes.......it was great to hear them rip through stuff like I'm The One and even Mikey doing Somebody Get Me a Doctor was awesome.  Gary's stage moves/presence didn't suit VH at all though I felt.

As far as the reworking of old demos - yes , that was the case for half of ADKOT and it seems to get a lot of discussion but most of them were significantly reworked , including totally different lyrics in some cases.

What doesn't get the same amount of discussion is that tracks on all of the DLR era albums can be traced back to old demos ..............even some of the Sammy albums. I have a live show somewhere from 76 or something where they're doing Take Your Whiskey Home , House of Pain (very different) , Voodoo Queen (which became Mean St) etc....... Hell - the riff for Top Of The World (from F.U.C.K.) is lifted from the fadeout to Jump.  And as mentioned earlier Dirty Water Dog was from a 5150 reject that became a Lukather song before becoming a VH song again Van Halen have always done that and I have no issue with it.  Nobody would know if the demos weren't so widely circulated.

[TAC]

Today's fashion is a Balance double whammy -

A sucker in a 2 piece!

My honest feeling is that a lot of people were excited about VH doing a new album with Roth (if you can call an album filled with mostly songs from 30 years ago that were never more than demos new ) that they wanted to like the album, and they were going to like it no matter what.  You want muddy production, listen to that mess.  Now, it does have several songs that I like quite a bit - Big River and The Trouble with Never - but most of the songs are just generic dribble. 

I disagree. I was as skeptical as anyone. In fact I wanted to dislike it. I thought that Tattoo sucked but my wife bought me the CD as a present, and I was shocked at how good it was. Probably 4 or 5 songs too long, but it's 7 or 8 songs deep.

[KevShmev]

Oddly enough, my opinion on this sort of changed...today.

I decided to listen to it on my travels today - I redid my VH mp3 CD for the car right after I got the mp3s of this CD and just threw the whole thing on there since VH doesn't have so much material to where there wasn't room for all of it - and actually enjoyed most of it.  I still think there are quite a few songs that are missing a vocal hook, but they have enough energy and rockingness to where they still didn't sound bad or anything.  Granted, it's not classic VH is swimming in melodic glory or anything, but many of their songs have like one or two lines that are enough of a hook to where the rest of the song basically being one long rocking guitar solo works.  Source of Infection from OU812 is a good example of this, since that song is basically one giant guitar solo, but the "Love is the source..of infection...woahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!" part is enough of a hook to make it work.

Back to ADKoT, I can say I like it a lot more than I did at first, or even 12 hours ago.

The back half of the album is much better than the front half.  The best songs here are The Trouble with Never, Outta Space, Big River and Beats Workin'.

[bl5150]

A sucker in a 2 piece!

      Think yourself lucky I didn't reply with Kip Winger in a one piece



To finish off VH week(s)......I present in traditional DTF style .......................Van Halen IV   






And yes even the shirts for VH 3 were shit 

I actually made up a really nice frame with some of the signed stuff from that tour (they would only sign VH 3 stuff  ) but can't find it at the minute.  And that 1976-77 VH show I mentioned before also had Loss Of Control and In A Simple Rhyme on it 

Time to brush up on my Dio ratings........

[Evermind]

Time to brush up on my Dio ratings........

Bring it on! 

[jjrock88]

They would only sign VH3 stuff from that tour?? Bunch of jerk stores

Bring on the might Dio!!

[bl5150]

They would only sign VH3 stuff from that tour?? Bunch of jerk stores

Yeah.........and it wasn't as if anything was being sold at the place I met them (a Hard Rock Cafe ), so I think it was just a case of using that rule to promote album sales in general rather than a store thing.  I wish I could find the photo of me and EVH     There was no cameras allowed but Ed and I were having a good chat and so the Hard Rock photo guy snapped us and then of course I drove him  nuts in the days following until he did me a copy

I'm doing some Dio listening as my (now old) rankings have 3 of the top 5 Dio albums ranked exactly the same    And my top 15 Dio songs are very clear , but not so much the top 10.
 

[jjrock88]

Are you doing just Dio solo? Or is Rainbow/Sabbath included?

Never could get into Elf though; I did try, but not my thing

[bl5150]

Just the band Dio for now - the Top 10's (and albums) are hard enough without not using clear boundaries where I can   If some want to I could do a top 10 at a later stage for anything Ronnie was on.

Also, when we get to some of these other bands with large discogs and multiple vocalists/eras then I may request some input on whether we want to divide them into eras like we did with Van Halen

[wolfking]

Just the band Dio for now - the Top 10's (and albums) are hard enough without not using clear boundaries where I can   If some want to I could do a top 10 at a later stage for anything Ronnie was on.

Also, when we get to some of these other bands with large discogs and multiple vocalists/eras then I may request some input on whether we want to divide them into eras like we did with Van Halen

That might work, good idea.

[bl5150]

Welcome to Dio Week    It'a appropriate that we do this now with the 5th anniversary of his passing only recently ......I can't believe it's 5 years   

We'll be ranking albums (and songs contained on) the albums branded as DIO - as per Van Halen we'll keep it to studio albums rather than "best of" style live albums.  In the case of Dio,  Intermission would be near the top for me if included as it's a great collection of live songs and "We Rock" in particular is one I prefer as a live version as the production on the studio version is woeful - I can hardly hear the guitars .  It's even better on Evil or Divine with Aldrich.

 

 As I mentioned above I had some old Dio ratings that were way too uniform to allow a proper ranking and so I've had a bit of a "Dio Day' today listening to the top half dozen albums.   I've never taken any real notice of Angry Machines or Master Of The Moon and therefore I am going to take the Top 5 option when it comes to ranking albums.  Those of you who are all over the whole discography - feel free to rank the whole lot.

I have always loved Dio as a singer but when it came time for my Top 50 the Dio band just missed out as I never quite found the consistent perfection on a single Dio album that I did on the best platters from the likes of Queensryche, Ozzy , Judas Priest etc...  Having said that the best Dio songs are all time faves.

We've had the discussion before about the Dio era that I grew up with (Lock Up The Wolves and the tail end of Sacred Heart )  - on listening to LUTW today I have downgraded it  a bit .  The best songs on it remain some of my all time best (and it's the most prevalent in my Top 10) but the filler is pretty damn ordinary.    Holy Diver is the same for me - awesome best tracks but a few I don't care for at all which makes it hard to rate an album right up there.  To me the most consistently good are Sacred Heart , Dream Evil and The Last In Line and they received big upgrades after today's listen.  Their relative lack of filler along with a couple of classics each has them at the top of the pile for me.  Magica is something I've never really listened to properly but it surprised me with it's consistent high quality - just missing some standouts.


There are supposedly demos of Jake E Lee with Dio in 1982 too which I would love to hear - he was Ronnie's original choice as axe man but it didn't work out. It's said that Don't Talk To Strangers may be a Jake "write" which I can believe listening to the riff.   

I would also note that if we were to call "Stars" a Dio song with a million guests (which it basically is) then it would make my Top 10 songs. 



TOP 5 ALBUMS

1. Sacred Heart
2. The Last In Line
3. Dream Evil 
4. Lock Up The Wolves
5. Holy Diver/Magica (TIE)

All the Dio albums in my Top 5 are rated between 80 and 90% , so it was all pretty close.

TOP 10 SONGS - chronological order

Stand Up And Shout
Don't Talk To Strangers
We Rock
Sacred Heart
Another Lie
Sunset Superman
Walk On Water
Wild One
Hey Angel
Why Are They Watching Me


Two of my lower rated albums  (LUTW and Holy Diver) make up more than half the Top 10 between them but the album ratings are as much about consistency as anything.

And today's shirt............my only Dio shirt but a good'un.  It has the chorus to The Last In Line on the back.

[BlobVanDam]

1. Holy Diver
2. The Last in Line
3. Killing the Dragon
4. Lock Up The Wolves
5. I don't have a 5th


In no particular order because I'm lazy and because ranking things is kinda trivial when you have to think that hard about it.

Stand Up and Shout
Holy Diver
Gypsy
Don't Talk to Strangers
Rainbow in the Dark
The Last in Line
I Speed at Night
We Rock
Born on the Sun
Killing the Dragon


honorable mentions-
One Night in the City
Wild One

[Lowdz]

Last In Line
Sacred Heart
Dream Evil
Holy Diver

None of the others get any airplay chez Lowdz.

[bl5150]

Wow - for some reason I just assumed that I would be the only one with any album above Holy Diver let alone all three of those.  The final standings may not be the lay down misere I was thinking 

[BlobVanDam]

Anyone who doesn't rank Holy Diver at least top 2 is doing it wrong.

[Lowdz]

Anyone who doesn't rank Holy Diver at least top 2 is doing it wrong.

Well I Have to  say I loved HD when it came out, and its still a great album . I just scored it on which albums I'm more likely to reach for now.

[wolfking]

1. Sacred Heart
2. Magica
3. Holy Diver
4. The Last in Line
5. Killing the Dragon

Always loved Magica, never understood the hate.

[wolfking]

Sorry to take this off topic, but I had to share.  This popped up in my subscriptions and I have no idea who this band are, but this is killer, listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa84JoowXuY

[bl5150]

Borealis are pretty good Kade - I have their two previous albums and both have a couple of really good tracks.  The more recent one Fall From Grace is the more consistent I think.

[wolfking]

Borealis are pretty good Kade - I have their two previous albums and both have a couple of really good tracks.  The more recent one Fall From Grace is the more consistent I think.

Fuck yeah man, I'll check them out.

Also, loved seeing Sacred Heart top your list too, easily the best IMO.

[Evermind]

The Top 3 was easy, but I had to think about the last two spots for a few minutes. If I want to listen to Dio solo stuff, in almost every case I pick one of these Top 3 albums.

1. Holy Diver
2. The Last in Line
3. Sacred Heart
4. Lock Up the Wolves
5. Dream Evil

Stand Up and Shout
Holy Diver
Don't Talk to Strangers
Rainbow in the Dark
Shame on the Night
We Rock
The Last in Line
Sacred Heart
Another Lie
Wild One

As you can see, I really like Holy Diver - it makes half of my Top 10 songs list.

[jjrock88]

1) Holy Diver 2) Last in Line 3) Sacred Heart 4) Dream Evil 5) LUTW

1) Don't Talk to Strangers 2) Stand Up & Shout 3) We Rock 4) Hungry for Heaven 5) Sacred Heart 6) Holy Diver 7) Last in Line 8) Breathless 9) caught in the middle 10) mystery

Everything from the first two albums are perfect and all could be in this list