Author Topic: The Journey Thread  (Read 28324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 32238
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #385 on: May 28, 2020, 06:28:51 PM »
Considering how much I have read that leads me to believe that Schon is not a good guy, where is his karma?  Helluva guitar player, but seems like a shitty person.  (I don't remember where I read these things, for anyone wanting to ask me what I mean, but it was in numerous different articles and spots)

Somewhere, Steve Perry, who apparently still gets a percentage of what they make when they tour, probably sits at home, laughing and counting his money, and thankful to be away from the drama-fest that is now Journey.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 21400
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #386 on: May 28, 2020, 08:07:22 PM »
Then again, in his segment on Sammy Hagar's show, it was like long lost brothers.   I'm not arguing with you, Kev, but making the point that it's hard to tell, even though there always seems to be drama circling around him. 

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #387 on: May 28, 2020, 08:23:55 PM »
I think it just depends on who you talk to and when.  There seems to be a lot of drama surrounding Schon, Cain, Valory, and Perry at various times and in various contexts.  I'm not sure any of those 4 are completely innocent, but I'm equally not sure any of them are truly "bad" guys either.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Architeuthis

  • Posts: 2532
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #388 on: May 29, 2020, 12:18:16 AM »
Can't Tame A Lion is an excellent album cut.
Agreed, great guitar solo too. Trial by Fire is a really strong album.

"Arrival" is also such a great album over all.  I still feel that Steve Augeri was the better replacement for Perry than Arnel Pineda.
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Online bl5150

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8493
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #389 on: May 29, 2020, 01:02:29 AM »
I think it just depends on who you talk to and when.  There seems to be a lot of drama surrounding Schon, Cain, Valory, and Perry at various times and in various contexts.  I'm not sure any of those 4 are completely innocent, but I'm equally not sure any of them are truly "bad" guys either.

Cain's missus is a B-A-D bad chick :biggrin:
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 01:12:59 AM by bl5150 »
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 32238
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #390 on: May 29, 2020, 12:17:20 PM »
Then again, in his segment on Sammy Hagar's show, it was like long lost brothers.   I'm not arguing with you, Kev, but making the point that it's hard to tell, even though there always seems to be drama circling around him.

Is Perry to whom you are referring? If so, I don't doubt it, as I am sure he was a monster pain in the ass with wanting to do things his way and steering the band in a direction maybe the others weren't wild about, ala Dennis DeYoung. 

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #391 on: May 29, 2020, 12:41:04 PM »
And he kinda held the band and their schedule hostage back when he was dealing with his hip issues way back when, and apparently didn't and still doesn't see how or why that was a problem.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Online T-ski

  • Posts: 1544
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #392 on: May 29, 2020, 01:29:04 PM »
And he kinda held the band and their schedule hostage back when he was dealing with his hip issues way back when, and apparently didn't and still doesn't see how or why that was a problem.

If Perry is to be believed, he couldnít tour with his pain at the time and wanted to get his hip fixed and then go tour. If Schon or Cain had an issue which hindered their performance would it have been any different?

I understand the idea of capitalizing on the momentum of their reunion at the time but what was Perry to do?
Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 2675
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #393 on: May 29, 2020, 03:39:15 PM »
I understand the idea of capitalizing on the momentum of their reunion at the time but what was Perry to do?
I don't know...maybe get the operation done?    ;)

From what I remember, he was dragging his feet on doing it, which is why Schon and Cain ultimately decided to move on without Perry.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #394 on: May 29, 2020, 03:43:57 PM »
I understand the idea of capitalizing on the momentum of their reunion at the time but what was Perry to do?
I don't know...maybe get the operation done?    ;)

From what I remember, he was dragging his feet on doing, which is why Schon and Cain ultimately decided to move on without Perry.

Yeah, exactly.  I don't fault him for the fact that he needed time off to take care of it.  But I don't think he disputes the story about how it actually went down, which was:  It dragged on for years, and he kept putting off getting it taken care of, and he eventually put the band on hold completely.  When the band approached him and asked for some (any) sort of timeline, he declined to give one and just said he would do it when he was ready to do it. 

Again, I don't fault him for the health issue, or for wanting to take care of it.  But I do fault him for having everyone else (band, crew, management, etc.) put their lives on hold seemingly indefinitely without giving any sort of timeline.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10361
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #395 on: May 29, 2020, 05:20:12 PM »
I don't know how many people here have read it (I'm sure at least some of you...in fact it may have been posted at some point in this page).  But Matt Carty's interview with Journey's manager Herbie Herbert is absolutely one of the most intriguing interviews I have ever read about any band.   It's extremely long.  You'd need to pull up a chair for awhile to read it all, but I promise it's worth it. 

This is a link to the archived interview, which in in four parts.   I almost wish I could just post it, but that would be an incredibly long post. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20070127121512/http:/members.cox.net/mrcarty/

EDIT - Basically, it gives a ton of history into the drama, clashes, and personalities of the players involved.   
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Online HOF

  • Posts: 510
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #396 on: May 29, 2020, 06:28:04 PM »
Link wasnít working for me. Is it the same one as this?

https://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/herbieherbert.html

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10361
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #397 on: May 29, 2020, 07:22:10 PM »
Link wasnít working for me. Is it the same one as this?

https://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/herbieherbert.html

No...but if you read this really quick, it references the interview in my link. Not sure why itís not working for you. Iím getting on both my computer and my phone.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 1158
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #398 on: May 29, 2020, 08:55:31 PM »
I don't know how many people here have read it (I'm sure at least some of you...in fact it may have been posted at some point in this page).  But Matt Carty's interview with Journey's manager Herbie Herbert is absolutely one of the most intriguing interviews I have ever read about any band.   It's extremely long.  You'd need to pull up a chair for awhile to read it all, but I promise it's worth it. 

This is a link to the archived interview, which in in four parts.   I almost wish I could just post it, but that would be an incredibly long post. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20070127121512/http:/members.cox.net/mrcarty/

EDIT - Basically, it gives a ton of history into the drama, clashes, and personalities of the players involved.
Wow, it's a big interview! I read just some of it, very interesting... Herbie's perpective seems heavy against Steve Perry. Anyway, I found interesting that apparently "Raised on Radio" was meant to be "Freedom" and that album was recorded by Smith and Valory. Does this version exist and is archived somewhere?
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10361
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #399 on: May 29, 2020, 09:10:54 PM »
What I got out of it was that the PLAN was for that, and the artwork/packaging/schedule/promotion were planned out far in advance, but Steve Perry forced the game change before they could actually write or record *that* album and ROR happened instead.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 1158
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #400 on: May 29, 2020, 09:23:18 PM »
Thanks for the response! I asked that because of this part of your interview, where Herbie said (http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/page13.html):
"... I'm sitting there with Neal Schon, Jon Cain, and Steve Perry.  They inform me, 'We're struggling, and Steve doesn't feel right about these recordings.'  And I go, 'All the tracks are finished!'  'Yeah, he doesn't like them.  He wants to replace Smith and Valory.' ..." maybe just demos?
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Online HOF

  • Posts: 510
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #401 on: May 29, 2020, 09:27:09 PM »
Link wasnít working for me. Is it the same one as this?

https://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/herbieherbert.html

No...but if you read this really quick, it references the interview in my link. Not sure why itís not working for you. Iím getting on both my computer and my phone.

So the text was so small on my phone when I opened it I didnít even see the links to the different parts of the interview. Iíve read the melodic rock interview several times in the past, but wasnít sure if what you posted was something different or not.

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 10361
  • Gender: Male
    • The Jammin Dude Show
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #402 on: May 29, 2020, 10:00:26 PM »
Thanks for the response! I asked that because of this part of your interview, where Herbie said (http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/page13.html):
"... I'm sitting there with Neal Schon, Jon Cain, and Steve Perry.  They inform me, 'We're struggling, and Steve doesn't feel right about these recordings.'  And I go, 'All the tracks are finished!'  'Yeah, he doesn't like them.  He wants to replace Smith and Valory.' ..." maybe just demos?

Iíve read the interview a couple of times, but my last read hasnít been in a few years. But that sounds about right.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Online T-ski

  • Posts: 1544
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #403 on: May 30, 2020, 09:28:00 AM »
I don't know how many people here have read it (I'm sure at least some of you...in fact it may have been posted at some point in this page).  But Matt Carty's interview with Journey's manager Herbie Herbert is absolutely one of the most intriguing interviews I have ever read about any band.   It's extremely long.  You'd need to pull up a chair for awhile to read it all, but I promise it's worth it. 

This is a link to the archived interview, which in in four parts.   I almost wish I could just post it, but that would be an incredibly long post. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20070127121512/http:/members.cox.net/mrcarty/

EDIT - Basically, it gives a ton of history into the drama, clashes, and personalities of the players involved.

interesting read for sure.  seems Herbie was the real reason the band ever became successful.

I was intrigued by the notations that Rush ripped off the song "Nickel and Dime" (Tom Sawyer) and Kansas ripped off the song "I'm Gonna Leave You" (Carry on my Wayward Son).
Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 32238
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #404 on: May 30, 2020, 09:33:33 AM »


I was intrigued by the notations that Rush ripped off the song "Nickel and Dime" (Tom Sawyer) and Kansas ripped off the song "I'm Gonna Leave You" (Carry on my Wayward Son).

I remember hearing that Schon talked about that live a few years ago. Given how desperate he is for money to pay alimony to his dozen ex-wives :lol, I am sure he was probably trying to find a way to sue.

Online HOF

  • Posts: 510
Re: The Journey Thread
« Reply #405 on: May 30, 2020, 09:44:13 AM »


I was intrigued by the notations that Rush ripped off the song "Nickel and Dime" (Tom Sawyer) and Kansas ripped off the song "I'm Gonna Leave You" (Carry on my Wayward Son).

I remember hearing that Schon talked about that live a few years ago. Given how desperate he is for money to pay alimony to his dozen ex-wives :lol, I am sure he was probably trying to find a way to sue.

This was asserted in the Time 3 booklet as well (the Kansas and Rush references, not the alimony part!). The Kansas one has always seemed pretty apparent. The Rush one is a little more subliminal (itís there itís just not obvious). I doubt either band intentionally ripped Journey off, but I suppose itís possible they were aware of those tracks and that influenced them in some way.