Anyone tell me if these copies are legit or not?

[UncleBurntApostrophe]

Hi,

I've recently acquired copies of the Official Bootlegs of The Number Of the Beast, and, New York City, 3/4/93, 2nd hand, from sellers on Ebay.

Neither situation jumped out as obviously fraudulant, so I decided to take a chance (knowing that if I then suspected illegitimacy, upon receipt, and could corroborate-confirm that, I should be protected).

So, I've gotten them, and obviously not conclusive, but The Number Of the Beast differs from what's recorded on Discogs (in matrix code run-out, and by the absence of both master, and mould, SID codes; I've recently discerned that the absence of the latter can be a good indicator of an item's in-authenticity), whilst the New York City, 3/4/93 does correspond to what's been registered on Discogs, but is absent master and mould SID codes (and, as just expressed, I've recently come to believe that the absence of mould SID codes can be a good differentiator between real and otherwise ostensibly real, fake copies of releasrs; I did check several other of the Official Bootleg series' listings, on Discogs, and most seemed to bear master and mould SID codes).

The matrix code run-out on my copy of The Number Of the Beast is, GP-05 GT 000178.

If anybody can help me out with determinig that these copies are real, or not, it'd be much appreciated!

Cheers,

Steve

[Setlist Scotty]

Not sure if you're referring to the numbers in the center ring of the CD, the barcode in that center ring or something completely different. However, I looked at the codes imprinted on my copy of TNotB and they don't match anything like what you mentioned.

[rumborak]

I would say first of all, where does discogs get their info from? Is it just regular folks filling it in? Then your IDs might simply have not been entered.
Second question: For such marginal releases, how important is it that they're legit?

[UncleBurntApostrophe]

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks for your supporting evidence, setlist scotty (I did mean the data ring codes, and then the plastic region, inside of that, for the mould SID code- an IFPI number, alike the one found on the data ring)!

Out of interest, I have, also, checked a few other volumea, I had acquired a while back- Made In Japan, and The Falling Into Infinity demos; I have a few others, as well, but they are boxed away, currently- and they don't correspond, either.

I had considered both points you raised, rumborak- I alluded to the first of them, in my OP, of course- and I guess that I wouldn't, ultimately, be all that bothered, if they are counterfeit- but otherwise excellent replications- (assuming pertinents match, e.g. sound quality).

However, these are fitting into a bit of a project I'm currently, open-endedly set upon, in trying to deduce how, and to what level of difference, counterfeit replications are being made.

I've encountered quite a few other suspected-actual counterfeit versions of releases recently- new orders, and older purchases checked back upon, with recently discoveted info (essentially that re mould SID codes)- but ultimately how counteractive I'll be, in resultant practice, will certainly factor in effort vs discrepancy in place, against price, paid etc, so I'm sure thete would ocasions where I'd (consciously) accept it, yeah.

P.s// more replies are welcome.

[Stadler]

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks for your supporting evidence, setlist scotty (I did mean the data ring codes, and then the plastic region, inside of that, for the mould SID code- an IFPI number, alike the one found on the data ring)!

Out of interest, I have, also, checked a few other volumea, I had acquired a while back- Made In Japan, and The Falling Into Infinity demos; I have a few others, as well, but they are boxed away, currently- and they don't correspond, either.

I had considered both points you raised, rumborak- I alluded to the first of them, in my OP, of course- and I guess that I wouldn't, ultimately, be all that bothered, if they are counterfeit- but otherwise excellent replications- (assuming pertinents match, e.g. sound quality).

However, these are fitting into a bit of a project I'm currently, open-endedly set upon, in trying to deduce how, and to what level of difference, counterfeit replications are being made.

I've encountered quite a few other suspected-actual counterfeit versions of releases recently- new orders, and older purchases checked back upon, with recently discoveted info (essentially that re mould SID codes)- but ultimately how counteractive I'll be, in resultant practice, will certainly factor in effort vs discrepancy in place, against price, paid etc, so I'm sure thete would ocasions where I'd (consciously) accept it, yeah.

P.s// more replies are welcome.

I buy a lot of CDs, and I almost always buy them used (I refuse to pay more than $9.99 for a single CD release, with only a few exceptions*) through Amazon, eBay, and two of the greatest record stores I've ever been in (A.K.A. Records and Long In The Tooth, both in Philly).   I have no hard evidence (since I've not gone to the lengths you are to figure it out) but I tend to think counterfeiting in the CD/DVD industry is RAMPANT.   And some are better than others, and some are just so obvious it is ridiculous.  By way of example, there are two (well, three, actually) CDs that are VERY hard to find - Negative by Ric Ocasek, and the two Japanese Quiet Riot CDs with Randy Rhoads - that I tracked on eBay for several months with saved searches, just to see if I could get one at a deal.    And I noticed that - particularly with the Ocasek disk - when one would come on, they would go for about $100 a pop, plus or minus.   Then all of a sudden there was a listing that started appearing, oh, about every two weeks or so, with a Buy It Now for $24.99.   I ended up buying it for the music (same rationale as you above) but it was CLEARLY not an official release.  Same with the QR disks (they were worse; the printing on the back of one of the covers was smudged).   I knew these going in and kept them, but I bought a Blackmore's Night disk that didn't add up (though the quality wasn't as obviously inferior as the other examples) and I promptly sent it back with a polite but crisp "replace this with an official version or I want my money back and the feedback will reflect the transaction". 

There is a seller from I think the Phillipines that seems to have an abundant supply of Ytsejam Recordings, too, BTW.


* My exceptions:  Fish, Marillion, and Ytsejam Records, where I go right to the artist, and for certain deluxe releases, like the recent Kaliedoscope release with the 5.1 mix.  I will likely buy Flying Colors and KaLIVEoscope direct from the artist as well.

[hefdaddy42]

Released like this (that come from the band on their own label), I would have just checked with Ytsejam Records first to see if they are available.

Both of these appear to be.

[UncleBurntApostrophe]

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks for your supporting evidence, setlist scotty (I did mean the data ring codes, and then the plastic region, inside of that, for the mould SID code- an IFPI number, alike the one found on the data ring)!

Out of interest, I have, also, checked a few other volumea, I had acquired a while back- Made In Japan, and The Falling Into Infinity demos; I have a few others, as well, but they are boxed away, currently- and they don't correspond, either.

I had considered both points you raised, rumborak- I alluded to the first of them, in my OP, of course- and I guess that I wouldn't, ultimately, be all that bothered, if they are counterfeit- but otherwise excellent replications- (assuming pertinents match, e.g. sound quality).

However, these are fitting into a bit of a project I'm currently, open-endedly set upon, in trying to deduce how, and to what level of difference, counterfeit replications are being made.

I've encountered quite a few other suspected-actual counterfeit versions of releases recently- new orders, and older purchases checked back upon, with recently discoveted info (essentially that re mould SID codes)- but ultimately how counteractive I'll be, in resultant practice, will certainly factor in effort vs discrepancy in place, against price, paid etc, so I'm sure thete would ocasions where I'd (consciously) accept it, yeah.

P.s// more replies are welcome.

I buy a lot of CDs, and I almost always buy them used (I refuse to pay more than $9.99 for a single CD release, with only a few exceptions*) through Amazon, eBay, and two of the greatest record stores I've ever been in (A.K.A. Records and Long In The Tooth, both in Philly).   I have no hard evidence (since I've not gone to the lengths you are to figure it out) but I tend to think counterfeiting in the CD/DVD industry is RAMPANT.   And some are better than others, and some are just so obvious it is ridiculous.  By way of example, there are two (well, three, actually) CDs that are VERY hard to find - Negative by Ric Ocasek, and the two Japanese Quiet Riot CDs with Randy Rhoads - that I tracked on eBay for several months with saved searches, just to see if I could get one at a deal.    And I noticed that - particularly with the Ocasek disk - when one would come on, they would go for about $100 a pop, plus or minus.   Then all of a sudden there was a listing that started appearing, oh, about every two weeks or so, with a Buy It Now for $24.99.   I ended up buying it for the music (same rationale as you above) but it was CLEARLY not an official release.  Same with the QR disks (they were worse; the printing on the back of one of the covers was smudged).   I knew these going in and kept them, but I bought a Blackmore's Night disk that didn't add up (though the quality wasn't as obviously inferior as the other examples) and I promptly sent it back with a polite but crisp "replace this with an official version or I want my money back and the feedback will reflect the transaction". 

There is a seller from I think the Phillipines that seems to have an abundant supply of Ytsejam Recordings, too, BTW.


* My exceptions:  Fish, Marillion, and Ytsejam Records, where I go right to the artist, and for certain deluxe releases, like the recent Kaliedoscope release with the 5.1 mix.  I will likely buy Flying Colors and KaLIVEoscope direct from the artist as well.

Thanks for your post; I found it very affirming to my own plight, and shopping sensibility!

I'm not sure that I've anything particularly to add to it right now, except that I can relate, and appreciate the input...

I agree with your assessment that piracy is probably pretty rampant, and certainly covers a spectrum of quality/accuracy- my sense and experience would seem to indicate that too.

I also tend to buy within limits, and, being from the UK, I've been looking to pick up these Official Bootlegs from alternative sources- 2nd hand, etc- as the combined cost of importing them, direct, is pretty high,  and constrictive, in quantity, actually (as items are eligible for further import charges, past £15/about $23, which I am usually loathe to cover; that should address your query, hefdaddy42!; I have actually gone one further, before coming here, and attempted seeking this discriminating info from Ytsejam customer service, but the answer I got was rather unhelpful, and I haven't received a further reply).