The History of Rush v. Discography Thread: Epilogue

[jammindude]

Love the synth-era...but really don't like this album at all.   Mostly because, to my ears, it doesn't sound like a live album at all.   Of all the live Rush albums, this is the one that suffers the most from all the songs sounded way too exact to their studio counterparts.    HYF, and then this really made me realize that Rush had taken synths too far.    The songs had become so computer generated, that it became impossible to recreate them live without sounding precisely like what you had done already.   There was no room for improvisation, no room for breathing.     This live album just struck me as completely cold and (ironically enough) lifeless. 

I suppose the video was a bit better because you get to see the guys moving around a bit, and the added bonus of Rush's #1 synth song Territories, which was criminally cut from the CD.   

I remember when this came out, I was hoping for a two-disc set (before I heard it, that is) and I was disappointed that they cut so much of the show to accommodate a single disc.     As you can tell, this is by far my all time least favorite live Rush release. 

There are a couple of high points.   Subdivisions is quite good, and sounds much better than it's studio equivalent (but we would get several even better versions later on)....actually I was looking for more high points, but that's about all I found.

[TAC]

I've always liked A Show of Hands, even back when I wasn't crazy about the SynthRush studio albums.  These guys are just so amazing live that the source material basically doesn't matter; they're gonna rock and it's gonna be great.  I gave it a spin yesterday and yep, it still holds up.  I actually like it even more, now that I'm slowly gaining more appreciation for 80's SynthRush.

After ignoring Rush since Signals, I went to see this tour and it was such a great fun and energetic show. Loved ASOH. Like I posted earlier, I ended up at this point reconciling with 80's Rush, as they did in fact have some great and catchy tunes. Was it late 70's stuff? NO.
But I decided that I couldn't change it, so I just let it wash over me.
What would really piss me off would be 90's Rush, but more on that later. I would meet Presto with a clean slate.

[Lowdz]

So yeah, Tai Shan is awful.

Noooooo!!!

[TAC]

So yeah, Tai Shan is awful.

Noooooo!!!

Yeeeeesss!!

[jammindude]

So yeah, Tai Shan is awful.

Noooooo!!!

Yeeeeesss!!

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[nicmos]

If I say NOOOOOOO!!!!! am I agreeing that it's not awful or disagreeing with the previous NOOOOOOO!!! and saying it is awful?

Tai Shan is a good song if you're not expecting a rock song.  If you want to rock out, it's not appropriate.  I like it.

[TAC]

If I say NOOOOOOO!!!!! am I agreeing that it's not awful or disagreeing with the previous NOOOOOOO!!! and saying it is awful?

Just remember that Tai Shan = NOOOOOOOOO!!

[hefdaddy42]

Tai Shan is a good song if you're not expecting a rock song.  If you want to rock out, it's not appropriate.  I like it.

I wasn't expecting a rock song.  I was expecting a song.

The one I got wasn't good.

[Lowdz]

Tai Shan is a good song if you're not expecting a rock song.  If you want to rock out, it's not appropriate.  I like it.

I wasn't expecting a rock song.  I was expecting a song.

The one I got wasn't good.

But did China not sing to you? 

[King Postwhore]

I played the hell out of A Show Of Hands from the CD, VCR tape and the DVD when it came out. That has been a trend with Rush and myself.

[TAC]

I played the hell out of A Show Of Hands from the CD, VCR tape and the DVD when it came out. That has been a trend with Rush and myself.

VCR tape?

There has to be young guns going WTF is a VCR tape?
Joe, you crack me up everytime you post.

[King Postwhore]

It was also called VHS too you silly person.

[TAC]

It was also called VHS too you silly person.

Yeah, I know that but I didn't want it to seem like I was picking on you again.
 

[King Postwhore]

Hey!  Google VCR tapes and see!  I will win this time!

[TAC]

I actually still have my A Show Of Hands VCR tape!

[King Postwhore]

No mock me good sir.



I do too!

[TAC]

 

[KevShmev]

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again;

A Show of Hands was far better on VHS than it is on DVD (the original mix was much better).

[The Letter M]

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again;

A Show of Hands was far better on VHS than it is on DVD (the original mix was much better).

Been awhile since I've watched either the VHS or the DVD, but from what I recall, I might agree with that.

Honestly, I wish they would re-release ASOH on Blu-Ray, with "Lock And Key" and whatever else footage they have of the whole show, and release the CD with it. Or the whole Birmingham show.

Thankfully, almost the entire Birmingham show was made available through a soundboard bootleg, in addition to the ASOH CD and Video sets, and it's a great show. The official CD is good, and has a better balance between ATWAS and ESL in terms of sounding too raw and live and too "studio" and sterile. It's got good energy and a nice sound, at least to me, and some of the song choices are pretty killer, although with all the songs they played live between those four albums (7/8ths of Signals and Power Windows, all of GUP, and 6 out of 10 HYF songs), they could have made a more diverse live set, even a two-disc live set. I do enjoy the live version of "Closer To The Heart" we got on it though.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

Following two albums with Peter Collins, the band went in search of a new producer again, this time finding Rupert Hine, who was very much of a pop producer who had a lot of good ideas when it came to vocals and how to utilize a singer's voice.  Those attributes would shine clearly on Presto, the band's 13th studio album, one that had the odd twist of fazing out the keyboards, which still lingered at times for color and texture, while still not really rocking out like many hoped a mostly keyboard-less Rush would.  In many ways, Presto is as close to pop rock as the band ever got, and the mixing of it would really help in that regard.  Even the songs that kind of rock, like "Show Don't Tell" and "Superconductor," are largely neutered by the very thin, yet clean, mix.  Getting back to Hine's strength as a vocal coach, Geddy started doing some different things with his voice on this record, like layering his voice and annunciating differently at times, things he still does to this day. 

Presto comes across to me as a good idea, but everything just didn't come together enough to make it very memorable.  There are a couple of great tracks - "The Pass" and "Available Light - and  a couple of throwaways, IMO, but overall this album is mostly full of songs that sound nice and enjoyable enough, but very few that make me want to listen to them very often.  I can listen to this album as a whole and it sounds like easy listening Rush.  I can see the appeal of it for a tiny percentage of fans who swear by it, some even calling it the best thing they ever did, but for me, it's a nice come down after the synth era.  After so many synth leads and whatnot on the previous four albums, they needed to get something like this out of their system.  It's just a shame the songwriting overall wasn't better.  Solid record, but not much more than that.

[Lowdz]

I was very disappointed with this at the time. It didn't rock at all and had more filler and bland stuff than I was used to from the guys. Now I like it better. It misses the synths for me as it sounds as though something is missing.
There are some great songs here but it took me a long time to appreciate them. Available Light is great.

I cannot stand Anagram - the song or the lyrics, clever as they may be. And Hand Over Fist is crap too. The rest is fine but its not a great Rush album. I might be in a minority but I'd take Roll The Bones and Counterparts over it.

[TAC]

So after a great live experience on the HYF tour, I was now officially back in the Rush fold.
I greeted Presto with open arms. I really enjoyed it. It's not a great album, but it's very easy on the ears. This is what I always called Adult Comtemporary Rush. I've never been a fan of The Pass and War Paint has to be one of the worst things they've ever done. And Superconductor is weak, unfortunately a forshadowing of some of the light weight rock crap that would follow, particulaly on the next album.
But other than that Presto is an extremely enjoyable and relaxing listen. Loved for the almost stripped down (only a few keyboards) style of this.
This came out during my senoir year of college, and I would see this tour twice.

I might be in a minority but I'd take Roll The Bones and Counterparts over it.

Roll The Bones..hell NO!
Counterparts..hell YES!!

[Mister Gold]

Presto's not bad by any means, but it's admittedly not as impressive as some of the band's other albums. That being said, Available Light is a Top 3 Rush Song in my book.

[Anguyen92]

I love The Pass.  The lyrics are so good and the overall vibe is so laid-back and deep.

[jammindude]

I was very disappointed with this at the time. It didn't rock at all and had more filler and bland stuff than I was used to from the guys. Now I like it better. It misses the synths for me as it sounds as though something is missing.
There are some great songs here but it took me a long time to appreciate them. Available Light is great.

I cannot stand Anagram - the song or the lyrics, clever as they may be. And Hand Over Fist is crap too. The rest is fine but its not a great Rush album. I might be in a minority but I'd take Roll The Bones and Counterparts over it.

I agree with this entire post...until you got to the Roll the Bones part (freakin *terrible* album...but we'll get to that).

This album is a step up from Hold Your Fire, but was a bit of a disappointment.   We had heard in advance that Rush was dropping the keyboards and going with a more "organic" sound...and Show Don't Tell seemed to back up that claim...but the rest of the album didn't really deliver on the hard rockin promise that SDT promised. 

Still, it has aged very well for me.  And the better tracks from Roll the Bones (and how dismal that album as a whole was) puts Presto in a better light upon reflection.    War Paint and Scars get flack, but I absolutely love them.    Anagram was a clever idea, that ultimately fell flat.  Hand Over Fist is just not very good at all.   I LOVE SUPERCONDUCTOR.    I agree that the production kills it a bit, they were trying to be heavier and the production didn't capture how heavy the song wanted to be....but the song itself is killer.   The title track is wonderful.    There is a lot to love here.   Chain Lightning is my personal favorite, and I was really disappointed it was never played live. 

Ranking:

1. Chain Lightning
2. Available Light
3. Presto
4. Superconductor
5. War Paint
6. The Pass
7. Scars
8. Show Don't Tell
9. Red Tide
10. Anagram (for Mongo)
11. Hand Over Fist

In going through this...this was a very difficult ranking, and as I'm typing this, it reminds me of how strong this album is.   It's a bit of a sleeper, but I really love it.   Those first 9 songs are all really fantastic, and it's really only the last two that I don't like.   

[Lucien]

Anagram is actually probably my second or third favorite song on the album, just because of the melodies.

[TAC]

I agree with this entire post...until you got to the Roll the Bones part (freakin *terrible* album...but we'll get to that).

This album is a step up from Hold Your Fire, but was a bit of a disappointment.   We had heard in advance that Rush was dropping the keyboards and going with a more "organic" sound...and Show Don't Tell seemed to back up that claim...but the rest of the album didn't really deliver on the hard rockin promise that SDT promised. 

Still, it has aged very well for me.  And the better tracks from Roll the Bones (and how dismal that album as a whole was) puts Presto in a better light upon reflection.    The title track is wonderful.    There is a lot to love here.   Chain Lightning is my personal favorite, and I was really disappointed it was never played live. 


In going through this...this was a very difficult ranking, and as I'm typing this, it reminds me of how strong this album is.   It's a bit of a sleeper, but I really love it.   Those first 9 songs are all really fantastic, and it's really only the last two that I don't like.

I agree with a lot of what you say. The next album was terrible. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

My Top songs are:
1. Available Light
2. Red Tide
3. Show Don't Tell
4. Chain Lightning


I have an 80's Rush playlist and a 90's Rush playlist.
Available Light and Chain Lightning are on my 80's playlist and I put Red Tide and Show Don't Tell on my 90's playlist because I thought it fit more with those songs.

[nicmos]

This album definitely has a relaxed, mellow, or adult contemporary, or whatever you want to call it vibe about it.  Sometimes that's a good thing and other times it feels like it's a missed opportunity.  I agree with others that it sounds like they wanted to be heavier in places but it doesn't come across that way because of the production.

I think the writing on some of the songs is absolutely some of the most beautiful that Rush has ever done.  The Pass, Presto and Available Light are great examples of that.

I think my least favorites on this album are probably Anagram, and Show Don't Tell.  The latter is easily their weakest opening track until we get to all the TFE and later albums.  I guess they wanted to make a statement with that opening guitar line, but I just don't think it works well as a musical idea.  I like Hand Over Fist, especially the bridge.  I like War Paint.  I don't know why others don't like them.  Again, it goes along with the softer melodic writing on the album.

One other note, this seems to start Alex's trend of playing the repetitive guitar chords to fill out the musical line.  He does this a lot on RTB as well, it sort of feels like he wants to have the guitar be more prominent, but forgot how to do it so he just plays the same chord 6 or 8 times in rapid succession to beef up the sound.  Just a minor complaint.

The kinds of songs on this album don't really sound like any other album by anyone that I know.  I think maybe that's why they sound strange and people are uncomfortable with them.  They fit in this weird space between nice, relaxing music and hard guitar-driven rock.  I remember once I was listening to this around a co-worker and he thought the music was ridiculous; literally he ridiculed me for listening to it.  Whatever, it's good music.  Available Light is one of their best all time closers, a song of astounding beauty.

[KevShmev]

There is no way that I agree that this is better than Roll the Bones, but we'll get to that album early next week. 

I do agree that Chain Lightning is a good, underrated tune. 

On the flip side, War Paint is an atrocity; easily one of their four or five worst tracks ever.  Geddy's voice when layered can be very hit or miss, and the layering of it in this song is embarrassingly bad at times.  It's like he sings in a certain tone that, when layered, sounds really, really bad.

[Mosh]

This is a nice album. Huge step up from Hold Your Fire and the 2nd best 90s album, sitting firmly behind Counterparts. I agree with the "easy listening" Rush sentiment that gets thrown around a lot here, but I enjoy it. This shows the band really proving they can write strong melodies. This album is full of them. Rush was never a overtly melodic band in my opinion, their strengths were more in things like rhythm or atmosphere. Even the synth albums, while more melodic, the melodies aren't as memorable as the ones on Presto. That's not to say Presto is better than the synth albums, because aside from HYF and maybe Signals, it's not. But it's a drastically different songwriting approach than what we're used to and it was a much needed change. It's not really the sort of thing I want from Rush, but I think they really succeeded in what they were going for with this album and it came out really great. I at least like every song except Red Tide and there are some songs on here that are up there with Rush's best: Available Light, the title track, The Pass, Anagram, to name a few. I even really like Superconductor! All and all a very enjoyable album, even if it's not really the sound I want from Rush. I'm glad they didn't stick with this for too long though because it would've gotten old very quickly and if the crap on Roll the Bones is any indication, they would've gone seriously down hill.

I only have two complaints about this album. The production doesn't do the songs justice at all. If you listen to any of these songs live, they really come to life and you won't want to go back to the album versions again. Horrible drum sound and the thin sound of everything is not nice on the ears. I also don't really like what Rupert Hine did with Geddy's voice. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but some of the changes he made don't stick with well with me. Geddy's vocals were really good in the 80s, I'm not sure if I liked them in the 90s very much.

[Orbert]

As always, widely mixed opinions.  I don't think Rush has a single album that's universally loved or hated; they're all over the place.

After missing most of the 80's due to going back to college for the third time, sticking with it for six years and actually graduating this time, in 1989 I found myself married, in a new city, with a new job, and with actual spending money for the first time in a while.  My first salaried job, in the field of my bachelor's degree (education), and my first paycheck.  So of course I went to a record store, and discovered that they weren't record stores anymore; they were now CD stores.  Sure, that'll work too.

In the old days, discounted "cutout" albums had a notch clipped along one edge, cutting out a slice of the actual record jacket.  I never knew exactly what made an album a "cutout" album; presumably it was due to surplus or some other reason to heavily discount the album.  Anyway, I was stunned to find that this practice had carried over into the CD era, because that meant cutting a chunk of plastic out of the jewel case.  But there was a cutout bin of CDs in the crummy little music shop in Jackson, Michigan, and cutouts are where the deals are.  Presto had only been released that year, but there it was, with a notch in the jewel case but otherwise brand new for $4.99.  Why?  I never found out.  But it was new Rush, and I couldn't wait to get it home to play it.  I didn't have a CD player in my old car, but I was teaching junior high at the time so I got home about 4:00 and my wife didn't get home until 5:30.  I put in my new Rush CD (my first! -- everything else was vinyl before now) and cranked it up.

"Show Don't Tell" kicked my ass right away.  I love the syncopated intro leading into a more laid back verse, then the weird syncopated thing came back under the pre-chorus (now that's a different device) before giving way to a more laid back chorus.  What a strange, amazing, great song!

Yeah, the rest of it probably seems pretty uneven to most people.  I didn't care.  I loved every minute of it.  A clear, clean sound, not all buried in a wall of Oberheim synthesizers which sound great but get pretty oppressive after a while.  Neil, ripping up the kit as always, Geddy wailing a bit like in the old days, Alex cutting loose and actually being heard loud and clear for the first time in a while... Rush was back!

Those of you who grew up with the 80's stuff, I can see how this might not work for you.  But for me, a child of the 70's, this was something of a return to form.  Yeah, it's more laid back, but Rush was continuing to mature as a band.  No two Rush albums sound alike, and Rush never stays the same.  They keep moving, and this was the latest chapter.  Stripped-down arrangements; short, catchy songs, tight production.  And I dug into it.  It's still one of my favorite Rush albums, perhaps largely due to sentimental value.  But whatever the reason, I love this album.

[The Letter M]

Phase 4 began after the closing of the 80's/Synth era with their third live album, and with this new studio album came a new record label, a new producer, and a slightly new sound. Well, new and old, but something different.

The opening number is a great Rush song, right up there with any of their other great and timeless opening tracks, as well as "Chain Lightning" being a wonderful 2nd track, giving us a wonderful 1-2 punch just as good as any from their previous 6 albums (yes, I would even consider it just as good as TSOR/FW or Subdivisions/TAK). "The Pass" and the title track are two more amazing tracks, although there's the odd-sounding, pop-rock-influenced "Superconductor", which is a bit ironic in that its lyrics deal with someone who has "mass appeal", even though the song itself is a rock song in an atypical meter.

The closing track is another beautiful piece, while the rest of the songs range from good to just being quite different, like "Scars" with its mesmerizing drum pattern, or "War Paint", one of the few then-new songs played live from the album.

This album marks the start of what I see as a pattern of placing the less-memorable/least-likely-to-be-played-live tracks on the back-half of the album. This album, Counterparts and Test For Echo all feature 11 tracks, and it seemed like the days of playing over 75% of the new material live were going by the wayside (and it even started on the HYF tour, with only 6/10 tracks played live). I mean, as a big fan of the band, I'm fairly familiar with "Red Tide", "Anagram (For Mongo)" and "Hand Over Fist", but I'm sure the lack of playing these tracks live doesn't help their lack of popularity, or perhaps fans just enjoying them in general.

Was it ever intentional to put these sorts of tracks on the back-half of the album, or was this just a case of "oh, that's just how the album happened to be arranged" when all was said and done? In the audio-cassette age, I could see why this was advantageous - in order to get through an album, you'd have to sit and fast-forward/rewind through 20-45 minutes of tape on a Side, but with CDs or vinyl, you could skip tracks or drop the needle anywhere. Coming out of the 80's, I guess Rush thought they'd put their stronger material up front on albums, and risk putting the B-Level material on the B-Side. I guess they can't all be winners, though.

-Marc.

[jjrock88]

I find this to be a pretty bland release. Never crave listening to it, but rather listen to it out of my Rush obligation. The bottom tier for me

[?]

Presto is a pretty good album and definitely more consistent than HYF to these ears. Hand Over Fist and War Paint are nothing special, but all the other songs are at least decent IMO. It's a mid-tier album in my Rush ranking, but The Pass, Available Light and the title-track are amazing songs. Also, as a former rabbit owner I love the album cover

Anagram is actually probably my second or third favorite song on the album, just because of the melodies.

I don't rate Anagram that high, but I really like the melodies, and the lyrics are pretty clever.

[King Postwhore]

I remember loving this album because it was so different for Rush at the time.  The writing was the key difference.  Funny reading how most here are calling this album  Adult Comtemporary Rush.  I think the music if far from that.  It's the production that is leading most to say that.  It was after this album and Roll the Bones that the band wondered why they couldn't capture their "live" sound on an album which lead to Counterparts.